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[–] 101 points 2 months ago (8 children)

Here's the history of US inflation in a nutshell.*

Lyndon Johnson wanted to have a Great Society and have a quick win in Vietnam. He thought that a big buildup could give the US a knockout blow, but it turned into an expensive quagmire. The US was dropping a dozen Hiroshimas worth of bombs on the jungle every week. This meant that US steel mills were working 24/7 and not getting updated. LBJ is printing money to pay for this, because he doesn't want to raise taxes.

Nixon comes in in 1969, promising to end the war. Instead he triples down on the policy of printing money and overworking the factories. Then the Arab Oil Boycott hits. Prices of everything jumps. Many small manufacturing businesses either go broke or relocate to non-Union states. All those fancy Manhattan lofts you see today started as factory buildings.

And while the US steel mills were running day and night, Japan and Germany couldn't get American steel, so they started building their own mills. Mills that needed a lot less power than the aging US mills. Suddenly Americans were willing to buy a tiny Japanese car instead of a Detroit model that got 6 mile to a gallon.

Jimmy Carter gets one term as President before the Iran Hostage Crisis ruins him. Carter hires Paul Volker to run the Fed and save the economy. Volker's plan works, but it's Ronald Reagan who gets the credit. Ronnie kept Volker in place.

Reagan has his own version of Nixon's print and spend policy. Tax cuts for the rich and bank deregulation create an artificial boom in the 1980s that lead to a stock market 'correction' in 1987.

When Nixon came into office, 'middle class' was one Union job paying for a family of four and $1 million was considered a vast fortune that could buy a dozen houses.

By the time Bush Sr. was done, 'middle class' was two incomes to support the household, and $1 million was what a rich guy paid for a party.

*this is a very brief description, leaving out many details.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Eh..... I think this puts a bit more emphasis on the economic impact of US Steel to the overall economic outlook during the post war period.

    The steel industry was more important to the US economy from the later 1800s to the post war boom, but a lot of the growth in the US market started to diversify way before the Vietnam war. Automation and the popularization of mini mills hit the US steel industry harder than anything.

    The same thing goes for the accusation of "printing money" being the real cause of inflation. In reality the rapid rise in inflation was one of the reasons Nixon moved to fiat currency. The Brenton Woods system was leading to American gold reserves being drained by other nations right when Germany and Japan began to recover during the post war period.

    Tax cuts for the rich and bank deregulation create an artificial boom in the 1980s that lead to a stock market 'correction' in 1987.

    Tax cuts and deregulation is probably the most significant reason we see the wealth gap start to take off. As well as a general change in attitude of CEO like Jack Welch who popularized the shareholder value movement in American business. He pioneered mass layoffs, cuts to pension, and investment cuts to increase paper prophets. Combined with the legalization of stock buy backs and you have today's modern economy.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    It's a little ambiguous, because US Steel was actually the name of one of the biggest companies.

    And yes, I could have written a lot more about Reaganomics, but I wanted to go with a very general outline.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It's a little ambiguous, because US Steel was actually the name of one of the biggest companies.

    Yes, I also could have clarified better, I was referring to the US steel industry as a whole.

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  • [–] 57 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    Nothing broke, everything is working as intended

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Not trying to refute this at all, but I'd love to see this same graph normalized for inflation.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    That would be interesting, but I'm not sure how useful it would be given that "inflation" itself is a heavily massaged and manipulated metric. It's one of the many layers of the illusion that the powers that be craft to separate us from the physical reality of why so many more of us have to work harder for the same or less. It only reflects actual reality to the extent it is politically necessary to so it can maintain some semblance of legitimacy. It may be better than nothing for adjusting such charts but it's also misleading in its own way.

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  • [–] 50 points 2 months ago

    Income growth broke as it hasn't followed economic growth since the 70s.

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  • [–] 44 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    The 1974 Tax Code re-write, that baked Trickle Down Economics into our tax code, created the Oligarch class, giving them the disposable income to manipulate political policy to their further benefit.

    The Rand Corp issued a report on income inequality, and the situation is far worse than most people think.

    Chart

    The median salary of $43K in 1975 has increased to only $50K today, while they would have been making $92K if the tax code hadn't been steadily re-written to enrich the wealthy at the cost of the middle class and poor.

    In that same time period, the mean income for the top 1% went from $289K to $1.384 million, while they would have been making $630K under the old tax codes.

    Thats a 17.4% increase in the lower median, and an increase of 321.6% in the 1% median. Clearly there has been an upwards distribution of wealth at the expense of the middle class since the tax codes started to be re-written in 1974 to favor the top economic tier.

    Read more about it :

    New York Mag: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/09/rand-study-how-high-is-inequality-us.html

    Fast Money: https://www.fastcompany.com/90550015/we-were-shocked-rand-study-uncovers-massive-income-shift-to-the-top-1

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  • [+] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago

    Probably because land is one of the best non-fungible assets around. You buy land and you have something whose upper limit on price is only limited by what someone else wants to build on it. And premium space around existing economic centers (cities) doesn't just spring up.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago

    Why use nearly decade old data though?

    That article is 6 years old, and uses data through 2018.

    Median household income today is $83k.

    And that’s adjusted for ”productivity”. Not exactly a concrete metric.

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    [–] 176 points 2 months ago (21 children)

    Private businesses being allowed to buy up the market to artificially increase prices and scarcity. How else can you ensure real estate is a solid investment stream?

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  • [–] 71 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (9 children)

    I think that's part of it, but a larger part--having been a local reporter--is that government is run by people trying to keep property values high. In cities, that's real estate developers and landlords. In suburbs, it's typical homeowners.

    Most construction brings down property values: increase supply=lower demmand=lower prices. There is therefore a strong political will to oppose ALL new construction.

    The second concern is: how do we keep poor people out? Things like minimal lot sizes are designed to keep the prices up and limit the amount of new citizens.

    The third concern is: how can we spend the most of our money on OUR children's education. Many suburbs are spiritually and economically designed to do ONE thing: get kids into good colleges. That means high property valuations across the board so the most money can go to individual children's education. There are very many suburbs people don't even move to UNLESS they're having children, and they move out when their kids leave school.

    If you build an affordable apartment building in one of these suburbs and children start moving in, what happens? THe money from the rich houses is now diverted away from the rich children and towards the poor children, who are now paying much less in taxes. With schools less valuable, the property value of ALL the houses go down. "We're all in this together," the rich people realize, refering only to themselves, of course.

    I do like the oligopoly narrative, but we have to face that we are facing MASSIVE FAILURES on a social and political levels. Everybody is scrapping for themselves and building walls and pulling up ladders and basically being as self-interested me-and-mine as possible, at the same time money is becoming the dominant form of political activity with which the masses of regular people can not compete.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    Don't worry, with birth rates dropping like a rock we'll have plenty of extra houses in a couple generations, assuming humanity can make it that far.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Doubt it. There are plenty of empty houses right now.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Right now, the folks keeping an empty unit for speculation can afford to keep it empty.

    When the less wealthy investors who need to pay a mortgage for their micro-estate empire of 3 units realize the demand is fading, they'll be forced into lowering rental cost and maybe even selling.

    China has seen a ginormous housing value appreciation over decades. The population is shrinking and the correction is happening. It is brutal.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Well no, they'll sell to cut their losses. To people richer than them.

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  • [–] 29 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    They realized someday people pay off mortgages. No one's ever paid so much in rent that they stopped having to pay.

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  • [–] 26 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    And these cancerous parasites are doing it to everything possible, sucking the goodness and value out of the entire planet and life itself, because their greed is a terminal mental illness.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Really basic 100m2 house is 450.000€ here. No basement no lot. Construction is stupid expensive since ukraine war started. Add to this, everytime there's a sale several people demand processing fees in % of the value including state... This drives prices only up.

    Doesnt help that china built their economy on real estate in the last decades, consuming lots of the raw materials. Also ever stricter regulations like insulation, heating, electricity is a point.

    Companies buying homes shouldnt exist but we are at 650-750k for a 4 person home with barely any lot without that already.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    This is nonsense. Corporations own 10% of housing. There is pressure but it's not a primary driver people need to stop parroting this

    Homes are treated as speculation and investments. NIMBY ism abound when it comes to density. Expensive labor for new home construction.

    These are the primary drivers.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    There's probably another 10% owned by individual landlords with 3+ properties as well. It's driving prices far more than you think. I'm my town something like 37% of single family homes are rental properties, if you don't think that's causing insane inflation of house prices in my area you're crazy.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    The biggest issue is lack of construction. We’re building fewer units now than we were in the 1960s, despite having double the population today.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    There's been way more new houses built in the greater area in the last 10 years than were ever built when I was growing up.

    Adjusted for inflation I probably make about 60% more than my stepdad did when they bought a house in 1997. That house is now worth almost 5x what the bought it for. And the mortgage for the house as a first time homebuyer is probably close to 8-10x what it was for them.

    The house next to my friends probably needs to be a complete rebuild and it's likely going to sell for 800k. It is a good location but it's not particularly big and is unlivable best case you could take it down to the studs but I didn't even think that is actually enough to fix it.

    Must of the rentals here are owned by a few family owned property management companies.

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  • [–] 38 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    What broke is they allowed housing to be a commodity allowing speculators to bid on.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago

    Yep. With the repeal of Glass-Steagal, the commercial banks used for things like mortgages, checking accounts, and car loans were able to merge with investment banks. The Act was out into place in 1933 because having retail banks mixed with investment banks was why Black Tuesday lead to the Great Depression.

    That allowed houses and mortgages to be combined into investment packages for the speculators, and lead to prices skyrocketing.

    It's what caused the 2008 crash, and in all the aftermath of that, nothing was actually done to fix the issue. The fix was simple - re-divorce them and reinstate Glass Steagall.

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

    Interesting claim. Let's look into it.

    Average home price in 1970: $25k I found a few different figures on this one, and averaged them out.

    $25k 1970 dollars in 2026 per CPI: $220,251 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=25000&year1=197001&year2=202604

    not necessary, but gives context: Average (not median) home price today: $502k https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS

    Median home price today: $410k https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS

    "The median money income of all families in 1970 was about $9,870" https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1971/demo/p60-80.html

    Median family income in 2024 (most recent year reported): $105,800 [note: does anyone believe this? FRED is claiming median family income went up 45% in the past decade and I find that EXTRAORDINARILY suspect. Few people get COLA over 3% and many getting fuckall.] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEFAINUSA646N

    roughly a 10.7X increase

    My best guess is that Mr. Brooks, using slightly different numbers (sources vary, exact years, etc...), to arrive at: 1970 Home Price + Flat Income Gains = $138,000. This is not great methodology, as growth is looked at in percentages for a reason. To illustrate, suppose instead of a house we were looking at candy bars. Let's say in 1970 a candy bar was a dime and today it's $2. Grafting raw wage gains onto candy bars, we're saving over $80k on each candy bar!!! Oh wait, that's silly. Let's stick with percentages.

    Using the official wage numbers, we arrive at "the average home today would be $267,500". This is more accurate yet still a massive departure from where we are today.

    So... what actually broke?

    There are several explanations for this divergence.

    The Good: Houses today are bigger and have better construction standards. Please, before you start typing a survivorship bias based claim about your house from 1905 that's still in great shape today, read up on survivorship bias. Yes, there are modern builders who do shoddy work (we've all seen the Youtube videos), but overall a house built to code in 2026 is significantly more advanced. A fair amount of the cost increase can be captured here.

    The Bad: Rent seeking. Figurative and literally. Somehow someone was like "hey, I'm going to get rich by making a basic necessity worse" and nobody beat them within an inch of their life to discourage others. Rookie mistake by our society.

    The Ugly: Official numbers are suspect at best. This was true before 2025 and whoa boy is it true now. Inflation is chronically under-reported BY DESIGN. That means actual inflation is driving up the cost of houses and cans of bean and things, while reported inflation is being used to determine your pay raise (that is, if you even get one). This divergence that started in the 90s is hitting critical mass here in the roaring 20s and we're probably fucked as I haven't heard anyone in a position of power even recognize this problem, let alone suggest how to fix it.

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  • [+] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    People will dance a thousand dances around the fact that low income housing should be built, owned, and operated by the municipality.

    The privately owned house building industry has failed its entire purpose and deserves to lose their place at the table. Those responsible for this problem must not be involved in the solution. Make the army build it. Way better use of our armed forces then whatever the fuck is going on these days. Or a WPA like program.

    Stop fucking begging these douchebags to fix a problem they caused. A problem they profit off of.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Agreed. Another, less violent but better for local finances, path forward could be sky high property taxes alongside homestead exemptions. That and greatly simplifying the opaque web of first time homebuyer incentives and options. Passing such a set of reforms would boost tax revenues for a few years, drive up rents while driving down the cost of homes, and then have a tail end boost to home owner industries.

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  • [–] 47 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    What actually broke?

    People figured out they could buy more than one house and rent it to other people, paired with a housing shortage partially due to people/companies owning all the houses, paired with technology to allow you to rent your houses out for a few days here and there to make income.

    We allowed house ownership to become entangled with entrepreneurship.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    ...and it screwed EVERYTHING up;

    1. People can't afford kids because the rents are too high,

    2. Rents too high for cool spaces to hangout in, so everybody's at home and miserable.

    3. Rents too high for a cheap restaurant to open, so everybody's mad and pointing fingers,

    4. Can't find daycare, because it's too expense for the daycare to rent a commercial property,

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Even before that there was a boom in people using houses as an investment opportunity instead of just a place for people to live. Land ownership became the get rich quick opportunity that people who don't play the stock market could put their money into. Then the people who do play the stock market got into it.

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  • [–] 29 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    "until we reestablish old-school legit full blown slavery (which we will), we have to make do with debt slavery"

    -oligarch fascists

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    They don't want full slavery. Debt slavery is more cost effective. Why buy a depreciating asset?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago*

    also prison slavery, but i heard thats industry not doing so well, since people are going to prison less and less. also prison population declining hurts the gop in the long run, apparently use the population as part of the census.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago
    [–] 23 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    The wealthy aren't paying their fair share. They pay way less than they should in taxes and keep accumulating wealth and buying up shit, which of course is coming from us. That then increases prices because more normal people need it.

    !twnw@fedia.io #TaxWealth

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    This is exactly it. All of the other answers in this thread are dancing around this issue without even knowing it. Some happen upon it, but move on like it's a side item when it should instead be lit up with lights and sirens as the main event.

    Regular people spend the majority of their income on the things they need to survive; food, shelter, energy, clothing, etc. The wealthy and ultra wealthy spend only a miniscule fraction of their money on the same things, so they put that pile of remaining money into investments/assets (stocks/shares, housing, etc), which make them even more money, which they put into more assets which make them even more money, and so on. But the money flowing to them doesn't come from nowhere, it comes from YOU.

    Collectively speaking, you go to buy a home, they outcompete you on the price, and then gladly rent it to you, all while jacking up the rent over time. They use that extra money from you to buy even more assets. You somehow manage to buy a home, but at a highly inflated price, the money is lent to you by... guess who. And they charge you interest every month, which is money flowing from you, so they can spend it on... even more assets.

    Higher prices at the corporate owned grocery store because the shareholders demand even more dividends. Because goods at the store coming from corporate producers raised the price for the same reason. Because little producers that used to compete in the market are being bought up by big ones that can afford it because they pay next to no corporate tax. But who are the shareholders receiving the dividends? 80% (and rising) of the stock market is owned by the 1%, the people who already have more money than they could ever spend.

    Now we've got higher prices for energy for a multitude of reasons, but a fresh new hell is it's all being gobbled to power data centers. Whose ultimate purpose is an attempt to replace people's jobs with "thinking" computers. Whether they'll succeed or not is yet to be seen, but we do know it is being funded by billions of dollars that someone has... guess who again. If they do succeed, then that's even more money sucked away from you in the form of lower wages at minimum. If it blows up in a catastrophic bubble, they will demand a bailout again, just like the sub prime bubble.

    Our failure to tax the obscenely rich allows them to walk all over us, taking money from us which they use to build the machinery to walk all over us with even greater pressure, which takes even more money from us, and so on. It's literally exponential, which is why nobody appreciates nor understands it.

    You are not rich, will never be rich. The ones who actually are, are doing everything they can to keep you out of their club. You'll know because you'll be paying taxes and they won't. Which are going to go up soon by the way, to pay for that bailout.

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  • [–] 29 points 2 months ago

    Nothing broke.

    This is capitalism working as intended.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    Homes as equity.

    Once they were considered investments, then they were subject to the "Line Must Go Up" tenet of capitalism.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 months ago
    [–] 9 points 2 months ago

    Accountability

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    So your claim is that things were perfect before 2008?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    lol I never said that. Though before the economic collapse happened in 2008, the cost of living was low enough to where if you made 50k annually it actually sustained some part of your life with a savings. Now that's 20k above poverty and you can't build a savings with 50k$, now 75k$ minimum is needed to build savings and live comfortably with a realistic figure being around 120k$, depending on where you are in the US.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    According to the alleged dynamics of capitalism, housing prices should be somewhat flat. Build houses that are too big and expensive? Demand is down for that market subset, gotta drop your prices or stop making such but houses. Housing supply is low? Prices go up, so companies will build more housing to make money off of that, increasing supply and stabilizing prices!

    So the dynamics are not working like that. Now of course real estate has a "natural monopoly" aspect, certain land is less valuable because it is just too hard to get to and from relative to what people need to do: work, eat, go to school. So land rents are higher in some places more than others because of this. Am economist might call this a distortion.

    But there is a much more important aspect in the US and similar economies, and that is financialization. Some comments here say prices are very high because houses are treated as an investment. That is true, but also incomplete, and it might make you wrongly think that it is individual homeowners saying, "this house will be worth more later so I will buy it". This is not enough! The financialization is by the bank that sells you a mortgage, that takes a nice percentage of your money in exchange. They can then make your house into a form of equity that can be seized later as needed if you're not profitable enough, which they carefully calculate to decide on your initial interest rate. And then they can gamble on that equity on the market. That equity is only worth something if the actual house has value and it has value because they will still loan you that amount on a new house. So an individual home buyer might buy based on the ability to be financed, sure, and the expectation that it will be worth it. But this is only possible because the mortgage lender themselves sees it as profitable for them to do so. If those high mortgages were not available, nobody could buy the expensive houses, land values would plummet, and so would housing prices, etc. of course because the dynamic is capitalist, this would involve a massive disposession and immense suffering if done at their hands and potentially threaten mass organizing and a threat to real estate profits, so whenever that threatens to happen (like 2008) the state keeps finance (and therefore real estate) afloat with free money.

    So why aren't more and lower cost homes built, especially in the locations that need them? They bring down property values that have been gambled on by huge institutions. Only luxury apartments can be built, not affordable housing units. And real estate basically owns your local government, and every politician above that level is still beholden to them. Ultimately they can crash the entire "economy" if needed.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    The finance side of things has also enabled a kind of house size inflation. Anecdotally, I've seen new tract housing go up in areas that need housing, which were all 3000 sq/ft each. They could have developed for higher density and sell more units, but I guess the margins are better on houses that sell for 700k and up. Especially if folks are willing to go into deep debt to pull it off. Plus that does little to ease demand, so the cycle can continue.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Real estate development tends to be done on loan. Before the decision to buildi a house is made, it is pitched to the lenders. The lenders also lended mortgages for other houses in the area and own a few, they want values to go up. The lenders approve the more expensive developments expected to increase real estate prices, not the lower income housing. The lenders can always choose a different developer to give the money to, the one that will pitch the higher perceived value development.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Nothing broke. It's working exactly as intended.

    There have always been two distinct economies.

    • There is their economy (meaning the billionaires economy of venture capital, real estate investment firms, speculative markets, etc...) It's a market that exists on paper only. Theoretical billionaires with assets instead of bank accounts, capital instead of paycheques. Money isn't a real concept in that economy, it's simply a measure of profit and loss. It's just a score keeping device and something used to leverage power.

    • Then there is our economy. (meaning the rest of us, who get a paycheque, spend that paycheque, etc...) Maybe we'd be able to put something aside for retirement or college for the kids. . Money itself has a real, tangible impact in our lives. It's not theoretical.

    Maybe we have enough to play in the paddling pool of the speculation market, telling ourselves that "we're shareholders!" like our 10 shares means squat against the 10,000 shares owned by the investment firms and LLCs run by the billionaires. Employers like to do things like offering you stock options, selling it as "you'll be an owner and have a say in the company". Yeah...no...you'll have a piece of paper and a sense of self-importance because you "dabble in stocks".

    The idea being that if we invest hard enough, and risk enough, we'll make enough to jump us from one economy into the other. But we won't. That's the lie they tell to keep us mollified.

    Because the truth is that their economy, only works at the expense of our economy. Profit in their economy, only comes from loss in ours. A corporation can't make more profit without taking it from somewhere. And that somewhere invariably is us; our health benefits, our cost of living, the quality of the products that we use, our lack of raises, etc...

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    That’s the lie they tell to keep us mollified.

    By and large, I agree with what you wrote, but they can always chose to have us shot, "suicided," imprisoned, institutionalized or simply disappeared. No, they need us to keep their big MLM scheme called "capitalism" running. No base, no top.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    It’s the end of the monopoly game

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Someone should get mad and flip the board and say fuck this shit

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    He should do it again. Or at least his brother, Mario, since Luigi is a bit tied up at the moment.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    It needs to be be collectively accomplished

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Sounds like a job for smash bros

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    Houses should be investments... in the same sense that a good, durable pair of shoes is an investment.

    In a well designed system, the value of property should stay pretty flat over time, and the value of a structure built on that property should slowly go down over time as wear and tear sets in.

    It's ridiculous that it makes sense to buy more home than you need, and to hold onto a house longer than you need it because it's one of the best and safest money-earning investments you can make. It's especially annoying as someone in a position to make that investment gets to live inside their investment and enjoy it even as it appreciates in value.

    Nothing else works that way. Can you imagine if you bought a classic car and drove it on the road as a daily driver and it went up in value? Or, if you bought a rare Magic the Gathering card, used it in your regular deck, and somehow it only became more valuable?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I’m mean, once you’re comfortable with a monthly payment why would you leave if the house suits your needs? Or payoff the asset and not have a payment. The being, you shouldn’t think of housing as something that depreciates over time, it’s not a car, you can fix it up, you can repair it to make it last 30 more years. Cars not always

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I’m mean, once you’re comfortable with a monthly payment why would you leave if the house suits your needs?

    You could say the same about a pair of shoes. If they're in good shape, why not keep using them as long as they still suit your needs? If you get a good pair of leather shoes they can last decades needing only the occasional repair.

    The difference is that you wouldn't expect your shoes to go up in value every year even while you're wearing them.

    The reason why it matters is that someone with a good job can't afford a house anymore, and shelter is right there at the bottom of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    The average home

    I mean, no offense to the OP, but this is a constant game of bullshit in a country as large and sprawling as the United States. The problem with housing prices isn't simply "median price", it's "proximity to the work site" and "proximity to public services" and "size sufficient to host my whole family". You can show me a house for $80k out in the de-industrialized Midwest or the boonies of rural Wyoming. I won't buy it, because I have nowhere to commute to work or send my son to school or a grocery store to shop at or potable water that won't kill me. You can show me a high rise in walking distance to everything I need, but if it's $1.5M I can't afford it.

    If it's $100k for one of a hundred vacant rotted out homes in the slum and $300k for a single unsold 70 year old ranch house in the burbs and $500k for one of the fifty newly built 600 ft condos in city, taking the "average price" doesn't answer the question "Where am I going to live?"

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    This is an important aspect. Someone above this said “houses are twice the size now so they cost twice as much” and I just had to shake my head. It’s not only new construction that’s expensive.

    But whether it’s the cost of all homes or the pricing of homes where they’re in demand, the ultimate question is still the same: why haven’t we had enough housing where it’s needed for prices to be more stable?

    But any good answer to this is going to hit 20 different points. Urbanization. NIMBYism. Private equity. Foreign buyers. Empty homes. Changing codes. Suitable land. And on and on.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    the ultimate question is still the same: why haven’t we had enough housing where it’s needed for prices to be more stable?

    "Enough housing" is a bad way to frame it. Because - again - we have plenty of vacant housing in the deindustrialized midwest. We have plenty of vacant real estate in the Great Plains. We have a dormant cache of vacant units in large dense metropoles. Why aren't these being filled?

    • No jobs

    • No infrastructure

    • Speculative rent-seeking

    In that order.

    But any good answer to this is going to hit 20 different points.

    You can drill down to any individual location and ask why the current housing situation exists/persists. But this YIMBY attitude that the solution is always more New Build constructions on the suburban periphery or massive teardowns of inner city occupied real estate is just six developers in a trench coat putting one over on you.

    Yeah, there's complexity in these markets. But private sector finance driven central planning really does boil down to "profit maximization" wherever you are. The real question, at any given region, is whether you have a housing surplus (because absent demand) or deficit (because excess supply) and how that shapes the prices of units. And a lot of that comes back to who has access to easy credit and who does.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    enough housing where it’s needed

    "Enough housing" is a bad way to frame it. Because - again - we have plenty of vacant housing in the deindustrialized midwest.

    Sure, cutting my sentence in half IS a bad way to frame it. So bad that I’m not even going to read the remainder of your comment.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Among many other things, people now vote in local elections according to “what will be good for my property value” and this often (usually) doesn’t mean making more affordable housing available. It’s a very specific case of NIMBYism. Luxury condo building with 15% affordable units? Not where it will affect my property value!

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It's completely logical, if most of your wealth is in your home you want it to keep it's value so you can move somewhere else if you want.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    If “most of your wealth is in your home” you don’t have any wealth. What you have is an asset that has been made artificially scarce. It doesn’t help you at all unless you want to move to some area that doesn’t have as much artificial price inflation. However it does hurt your community significantly by making housing unavailable.

    People need to think of their children, nieces and nephews before they go calling this selfish short-term thinking “completely logical.” If it’s logical at all it’s in a very narrow way to only a narrow group of people. Nothing “complete” about it.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Multiple things broke and anyone, including and especially politicians, trying to sell you on a single narrative is a lying POS.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Capitalism is working as intended.

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