from the mod log:

Mojng5xTnVM7YHd.png

https://s.faf-pb.xyz/lXxek was the old url but they took it down - I have a copy at https://join.piefed.social/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/evidence-llm-used-for-banning.txt

The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.

I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.

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[–] 17 points 6 months ago* (22 children)

I've not followed along all the various threads and, in all honesty, I've only read this very post because it popped up as being reported while I was trying to drink my morning coffee. Also, don't ask me how I ended becoming a mod either, I have no clue.

Imho, and I say this as someone only minding the meaning of words, if those people really see themselves as anarchists I would suggest they urgently:

  1. Look up the definition of anarchism in a (decent) dictionary and see how well it fares using tools like AI (being a centralized tool that is owned by some powerful/uncontrolled group, the IA itself being a true black box... while they, the 'anarchist' users of said AI themselves trust it, and so on). Or maybe, since they're already using it, they could ask their AI if they're really meant to go hand in hand? ;)
  2. Spend some time finding a better suited name to describe their jolly band. Imho, "believers" seems much more suited than "anarchists" to describe any group of people willing to listen to words coming out of some black box outside of their control but that is just an impression, there may be better words out there.

I don't mind people using AI: it's a new tool and it is to be expected that some real stupid shit will be done using it. But, like any tool, AI is not neutral. By and in its very design AI has a purpose and if I was to define myself as an anarchist, which I would not if there was still any doubt about that, I would seriously and very urgently question my desire to use AI despite its intrinsic design, despite its very purpose.

Now, if you don't mind, I will pour myself a fresh and hot new cup of coffee. And maybe later today I will pick up my copy of Proudhon 'Qu'est-ce que la propriété?' ('What is Property', which was first written in French) which, imvho, any wannabe anarchist should read before deciding it's ok, or not ok, for them to use AI, and what type of AI. And yes, that is a book worth reading for discussing AI despite having been written in the first half of the 19th century. The answers they might get out of that book may very well... unsettle them and their apparently very unchallenged certainties.

A very stimulating and healthy read, even for non-anarchists like myself.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    "I don't know anything about the situation at hand, the people in question, nor the political theory they espouse, but I won't let that stop me from stating my opinions as facts with the confidence of a hundred cardinals. Also, read this 200-year-old political treatise book that will definitely apply to bleeding-edge GenAI technology."

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    Accidentally unlocked the comment (misclicked when the giant 3-dot menu expanded under my thumb), but I don't see why it should be locked in the first place.

    Re-lock if it's supposed to be locked, I guess.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago* (6 children)

    Dbzer0 operates a user hosted mesh of local AI, there is no big powerful group. It's a collective of PC tech enthusiasts offering a free alternative to the big corporations.

    https://faf-pb.xyz/?ab3c4aae88b64dbc#J8jz6mNac8kRHm5aMXBJQjbUr9pbwMfWrdEaNm1jywhx

    You can see the output of the AI here, it's simply provided a summary of a users comments and offers URL links to view the original comments. There is no issue of AI neutrality because a human is entirely behind this process, and they make the final judgement on whether to act on the report.

    I understand it's fashionable to hate on AI, and I totally get being anti-corporate and against datacentres but when you're running something on your PC that is completely unconnected from them that argument falls apart.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    It’s a collective of PC tech enthusiasts offering a free alternative to the big corporations.

    By using a corporate owned AI?

    I understand it’s fashionable to hate on AI,

    Allow me to quote my own message:

    I don’t mind people using AI

    Where do you see any hate in that statement, or in the rest of my comment for that matter? Also, not minding something (AI, or not AI-related) should not forbid me, or anyone else, to look at its in a critical manner, right? Or did I miss the episode explaining us they, for some reason, should/could not be criticized?

    Whatever, thx for considering old-me as fashionable. That had not happened in many decades.

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  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

    By using a corporate owned AI?

    Qwen is FOSS under Apache License 2.0.

    I don’t mind people using AI

    My apologies, I must have misread or skimmed over a part here.

    There is nothing un-anarchist about using such a piece of technology, especially when it's being deployed to catch genocide deniers.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago* (2 children)

    My apologies, I must have misread or skimmed over a part here.

    Alas, it has become the norm, to skip 'a part here'.

    There is nothing un-anarchist about using such a piece of technology, especially when it’s being deployed to catch genocide deniers.

    Don't waste your time throwing slogans at me, I'm like made out of some kind of ideological teflon and no slogan will stick with me (even the ones I may agree with).

    Instead, of telling me what I should think (to be right) about AI and anarchy, have you even considered opening the Proudhon book I mentioned? It's in the public domain, easy to find. And maybe try to understand why an obviously out of touch old fellow like myself may have hinted at the possibility that, maybe, using AI-powered tools could not sit that well with an anarchist ideology and the way it supposed to stand against some very fundamental notions? Or is it simply that I must be wrong given the fact that I dare not agree with you or with someone you agree with? If that is so, that's fine by me all I have left to do is to wish you a nice day.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    Instead of telling myself and others that we couldn't possibly be anarchists because our view on the subject are different to yours and suggesting someone read a 270 page book to understand your POV, why don't you summarise your reasoning?

    Is it that AI is able to free up our menial labour?

    Is it that is infringes on corporate copyright and steals from them?

    Is it that it's being used in a manner that harms the finances of AI companies who charge for this service?

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago

    Instead of telling myself and others that we couldn’t possibly be anarchists because our view on the subject are different to yours and suggesting someone read a 270 page book, why don’t you summarise your reasoning?

    Have you noted the many words I put in italics in previous reply? Maybe there was a reason I insisted so heavily on those. And, once again, don't waste your time (and mine) trying to put words in my mouth that I've not said. The only reaction this might end up triggering (you've got some leeway) is in me deciding to ignore all your messages from that point on.

    As for why I don't summarize the book for you and expect you to "read a 270 pages book"? Thx a lot for asking.

    We live in the age of "summaries". People, old and young, don't want to read anymore. They want an instant summary of those books so they feel like they know it without having to actually put any effort reading it. So they feel confident they can get good grades when there is an exam on that book (the only ones to blame here being the educative systems and the teachers, not the kids abusing the system as they're acting quite smart by doing so). Or feel like they can knowingly talk about that book with their peers.
    People who want to use that shortcut are more than welcome to go that road if that's what they really want, you are more than welcome to go find yourself a summary of the book, even though I think it's a sad mistake. You can even ask one of the many AI to do summarize it to you (maybe this could give you enough motivation to start reading it?)

    Just don't expect me to summarize the book for you for the simple reasons that I think one must be willing to read a book not just act like if they had (it's sad but it's ok to not read at all), and then because I think most of the value one can get out of reading lies in the act of reading the actual book, taking the required time to read it and not in the act of getting a ready to memorize summary of it.

    Instead, what I'm willing to do, if you ever decide to read it and put in the work, it is to take time to discuss it at length with you, discuss any question or objection you might raise... to the best of my own limited abilities.

    Obviously, that is just my opinion, feel free to ignore it.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    Super cool stuff. I like how you suggest a book written by a man whose Wikipedia page, under "Controversial positions" describes him as anti-feminist, antisemitic, and proto-fascist. No one having a good faith discussion throws out a reading assignment while making not one single argument or quote from the book. And to then insult people for not reading it (or rather, not having already read it) is really telling. You dont care what people think, so long as they shut up and leave.

    I've skimmed the book before and I wasnt shocked to be in disagreement with many of his points. He wasn't a committed anarchist his whole life, and even notions like "property is theft" are circularly incoherent. You can't steal something that isn't already recognized as owned by someone else. At the very minimum, a being has complete autonomy of their own body, so again, hardly surprising that a committed misogynist thought bodies were communal property.

    Why do we care what a famously obtuse old proto-fascist has to say about contemporary anarchism again? Oh right, because this whole tirade is to deflect from the main topic with ragebait and probably some crypto-fascist propaganda move.

    I can reccomend books you won't read too. In "The Commune Form," Kristin Ross makes many interesting observations about the formation of communes and their foundational role in all forms of left-wing revolution. From the intro:

    My goal in these brief reflections is not to provide a definition of a form that in its contingency, lack of abstraction, and ongoing, unfinished nature could hardly lend itself to such a task. The commune form, as form, does not lend itself to a static definition, unalterable through time; it does not unfold in the same way everywhere around the world. It is not a concept.

    Throughout the book (which is also available online) she makes similar cases and discussions: that the commune form (and anarchism itself) are specific instantiations of common practices. Just like a pirate ship is a floating laboratory for democracy, just like every Fediverse instance is an experiment in governance.

    I'll be frank, you really piss me off. I find that smug, patronizing "I sip my coffee while moderating the children" tone of voice to be such an immediate indicator of a person who let's the petty tyranny of forum moderation go straight to their head. See also, demanding an entire other instance of people read some book in order to satisfy your demands for ideological purity. You sound like the worst kind of condescending reddit mod, a tiny authoritarian loftily demanding the peasants get on your intellectual level. "Read my dense ideological treatise," says the "teflon man" who doesn't let ideology stick to them.

    Go fuck yourself.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago* (8 children)

    Also, don’t ask me how I ended becoming a mod either, I have no clue.

    Ah you don't remember but it was for editing the piefed wiki and the fedihack event. The rest, i completely forgot.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Considering the recent actions, maybe reconsider that.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I saw the post on dbzer0 related to libb's lock action. I guess, your real question is my position in this mess ? So be it.


    I don't want to take side. It was posted by the Admin of Piefed.social and raised an issue on how we handle the moderation part. This post is also there because someone asked why Rimu doesn't post in !fediverse@piefed.social.

    • I haven't be able to diggest this enormous raw of informations. I prefer taking my time and read them slowly outside the current debate.
    • Both Rimu and Dbzer0 can counter-arguments, expose their facts and users can decide. I'm watching. I will lock the post later so i can take a break.
    • As for myself, I would have handled differently.
    • I have a mixed opinion on AI. I use it for subtitle or transcript. There are pro and cons. Dbzer0 stated they don't use it, or run a local one on you computers. I believe them.
    • I understand why people would feel their privacy was invaded, i'm one of these. The reason we left Reddit was for spez locking up API and later corpoAI. But our post are public and we check user's history before taking decision.
    • I also understand why mods would use this tool. It is covenient, fast but that's not how i would handle or imagine the moderation part.

    Maybe my opinion would change overtime if i was managing a bigger instance.


    As for the discussion between Unruffled and Libb, It's better to let them alone.

    If Libb want to disengage from the current discussion, so let it be. I don't think it is worth to insist and ask him to discuss when he doesn't want to.

    Maybe they both missed an interesting discussion and misunderstood each other ? Maybe later they could share their ideas, books and define part of anarchy in the 21 century ? Maybe they will completly disagree ? Dunno.

    Maybe, they could also imagine a disengage tool where anyone, not only mods, can lock their own threads and tell users "i don't want to continue this discussion."

    Right now, It is not the right time. It's not the right place for a talk between libb and unruffled.


    So i'm waiting for a better moment and that we cool down.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    Not a question, more a comment/feedback.

    I consider libb's reply less disengaging and more enrage and block, which I consider inappropriate for a mod to do.

    Regarding the larger bit with rimu and this post in general (not what my comment was about, but I'll elaborate since you took the time to do so as well), the issue - for me - comes down to veracity.

    I think its perfectly appropriate to call out bad actions. I have no problems whatsoever expressing my disappointment with the FAF when it has come up, which has been rare, and expressed those thoughts without any issue whatsoever. One example being a discussion about defederation, where some of the examples shown should/would have been removed anyway due to the rule breaking contents.

    Anyway, for me, claims like this should be met with a pinned post that they haven't been verified, and each user should review and consider accordingly.

    For example - is there a tool using an llm reviewing comments at request of a user? Yes, easily proven.

    Is it an automod? No. That claim is unverifiable with what has been shared, and not even remotely indicated by what was shared, making the bulk of this post conjecture.

    As for the points (I'm going to skip ones I fully understand and agree with to not make this too long, because I have a feeling you are already occupied with keeping an eye out for rule breaking behavior):

    have a mixed opinion on AI. I use it for subtitle or transcript. There are pro and cons. Dbzer0 stated they don't use it, or run a local one on you computers. I believe them.

    Same. They definitely run locally, as do I, the ai horde has been a publicly available tool for a long time. I'm very much against corp. ai, but perfectly fine with local use.

    But our post are public and we check user's history before taking decision.

    And most importantly, none of that is different here. Everything else in this post is just wild speculations and blatant fear mongering. Which is the issue I have with this post, and why I think a pinned comment is appropriate.

    As for the discussion between Unruffled and Libb, It's better to let them alone.

    Again, I was more referring to their interaction with db0.

    Flat out inappropriate, no excuses that are valid there IMO.

    Edit: Autocorrect typo corrections

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Oh, now I understand. Well I would say that's OK then. Just be aware I won't do night watch ;)

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

    Same, i will probably lock it during my sleep time than unlock when i'm awake. I did the same with a luanti server.

    For now the thread is going well. Thank to them all. :)

    And don't do mod task if you only wanted to do the wiki or something else. ;)

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    And don’t do mod task if you only wanted to do the wiki or something else. ;)

    Oh don't worry about that ;)

    It just happened I considered the OP post oddly interesting to comment on it (even though I still think this is not the best place to discuss that kind of questions, it also opened a few very interesting perspectives worth exploring) and I also wanted to make it clear to the person that 'reported it that it had been dully noted by a mod (ie me wearing my mod hat, in my first reply) and that said mod saw no real issue in the OP post.

    After that, the few feedbacks I received had promises in them. I tried to reply as openly and as usefully as I could. Alas, it seems we're quickly moving towards a more ad hominem type of discussion around the classical "you're doing it wrong or you must be dishonest if you don't agree with us/me" type of exchange that I won't contribute much more to if that doesn't change. Will see.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    Well don't hesitate to lock with a message that explain why you lock the post if we move toward this kind of exchange.

    It can excalate quickly and we have lot things to do. :)

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    Will do if I have to, but like I told the person I'm more than willing to give them an opportunity to keep this a real discussion, not an ideological pillow fight ;)

    If you read it, so far it is still perfectly correct with barely a few hints at... anger, or not even that: a mere desire to trigger some emotional reaction on my part maybe.

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