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[+] 137 points 11 months ago (74 children)
  • [–] 47 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (17 children)

    I am also very supportive of women's rights but lying is not helpful.

    Honestly the point that it tries to make is not the point that it makes either. It could be understood as "let's ban abortion everywhere", and I don't think that is the point that it tries to make.

    I am in favor of bodily autonomy and I don't care what the law currently is anywhere, it should be a given.

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  • [–] 23 points 11 months ago (10 children)

    I am also very supportive of women's rights but lying is not helpful.

    Worth knowing: although they attract a lot of anti-feminist losers, the "men's rights" activists are absolutely correct that men do not universally have the same support programs or even legal presumptions that women do. These can vary widely from state to state and even from court to court.

    It's not nearly as big an issue as "they want her to die from a miscarriage", but "they presume he's the inferior parent" or "they presume he caused the violence even if he's the one bleeding" are also sexist oppression.

    (Comparisons to the anti-woke "all lives matter" bullshit are apt -- men can and should recognize that relatively minor slights and injustices are not nearly as urgent as denying pregnant humans life-saving care!)

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    To be fair, the vast majority of these are societal standards and not rights, they are still absolutely important and we need to do more for equality both for women and for men, but strictly speaking they are not by definition rights.

    But I am in agreement with you that I think a lot of why the younger generation are being pulled in the wrong direction is because men, of which I am one, have not done enough to create an environment that addresses issues that primarily affects men in a way that is not based on misogyny.

    Don't get me wrong, the alt-right have absolutely tried to exacerbate these issues (either knowingly or unknowingly) and use them for their own gains, but we as a society have also not prioritized emotionally healthy solutions and that has led us to where we are.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago*

    I think we have a right to be judged fairly and not because of our gender or sex. But that's a semantic point and I don't want to quibble.

    I do want to push back on excusing from women their responsibility for the society we live in, however. (Or just underline an implied point we may both share.)

    Nearly every man I know values the opinions of women at least as much as those of other men. When a boy sees his mom belittle his father for being insufficiently manly, he hears a lesson that sexism is bad. When a man tells a boy that the way to get a girlfriend is to be a sexist jerk the boy listens, not because he cares about the con artist, but because he's desperate for a girl who cares about him.

    Men have a lot of the big levers of power, and do bear a proportionate share of our own blame, but we shouldn't excuse women who use the power they have in ways that make our society worse.

    We're all in this together, and all need to do what we can to make the world we pass to our children better than the one our parents passed on to us.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    why do the men win custody almost every fucking time they try

    I know where you're getting this from. Just so you know, it comes from a deliberately misleading interpretation of "winning custody", where if a man seeks any amount of custody, and is granted anything more than nothing at all, it's 'counted' by those spreading this propaganda, a "win". This is as opposed to what any reasonable person would call a "win", which is when one gets at least as much custody as one seeks. That's like calling me a "lottery winner" because I won $5 after spending $1000 on tickets, lol.

    If the mother of my child is abusive and I try to get full custody, but the judge gives me every other week supervised visitation, that is obviously not a "win", but it is, by the definition of the misandrists who propagated that particular piece of bullshit around.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I would agree and disagree.

    You are right but I think "ignoring" "men's issues" harms the feministic cause and consequently the "dying of miscarriage" problem. As sad as it is PR is sometimes very important and e.g. the lie in the post doesn't help the PR and a lot of young men don't feel supported but attacked by the current framing of feminism.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I think we agree and agree.

    I was careful not to use the word "ignore", because the answer to anyone sharing how they were harmed by sexism should never be anything less than "that's horrible and I hate that it happened to you."

    Sexist women who claim to be "feminist" and yet feel free to denigrate men or dismiss their perspective are terrible advocates for the cause.

    (Not "their" cause, because sexism is an evil that harms everyone and everyone should be against it.)

    (And sealions who claim to be "men's rights activists" but just want to be sexist anti-feminist trolls are at least as bad.)

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    The simple fact is that the right to legally opt out of parenthood is something men have never had. Ironically, women losing some of those rights (there is still adoption and legal abandonment, the other 2 of the 'three A's) in some places, brings them closer to where men are, re reproductive rights.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

    There is quite a big difference between parenthood + possible life threatening situation + all the "normal" changes that are part of pregnancy; and parenthood.

    If it would be purely about parenthood, you would have a point but it is not. And maybe a conversation about the ability to opt-out of parenthood should be had but the conversation about abortion rights is not about parenthood.

    I strongly encourage you to inform yourself about the consequence of the recent changes of abortion rights in America. It is not about parenthood, but health care.

    Edit: https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death a little starting point

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    I'm fully aware of the healthcare aspect when it comes to abortion, because of what pregnancy entails, but it shouldn't be ignored that in the vast majority of cases, abortion is elective, sought because the would-be mother simply does not want the child to be born—in other words, she wants to opt out of parenthood.

    If the law across the board in the US was that abortion was always allowed in cases where the pregnant woman's life was in danger, but never otherwise, women wouldn't be any less outraged than they are presently, even though that would put them on pretty much on an even keel with where men are, re reproductive rights.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Do we dismiss the mental harm it would cause to have a daily reminder that someone [raped] you?

    Of course I don't dismiss that. But you say this as if aborting such a pregnancy would actually do anything to meaningfully reduce that trauma. You need counseling/therapy regardless.

    Stop comparing.

    Generally speaking, this is not a productive thing to say to someone who has fewer rights than you do.

    Make no mistake, I want everyone to have full rights here—and in cases where it's literally impossible for one of the sexes to have right X because of the biological realities and/or recognized bodily sovereignty (e.g. males would obviously make no use of a right to terminate their own pregnancy, nor should they be able to dictate whether any pregnant person terminate or not terminate the pregnancy), they should be legally afforded the closest equivalent possible.

    Just argue for what you want without punch down. Women are not your enemy.

    Your implication is frankly offensive. This is not, at all, a fair characterization of anything I've said here.

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Why do you think it's not possible to both acknowledge that women have it worse and also that there are things they negatively impact men as well? They're not mutually exclusive.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago

    This will also face criticism of normal people, and that kind of is the point.

    If you put up messages like these, then automatically call valid criticism mysogenistic, then you can't call yourself the good guy/gal anymore

    This is like politicians making some bullshit argument about protecting kids from abuse and anyone trying to give criticism automatically is in the "are you a pedophile, then?" camp.

    If you have an argument to make, make a valid one and keep your auto judgement system off.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I'm not American, can you say what those rights are?

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    I think they're being a "technically Andy" and saying that different states have different laws for everyone.

    The original post is clearly talking about laws that apply specifically to those assigned female at birth. So the comment your replying to is just purposely ignoring that. It happens all the time to liberals that are more concerned with being "correct" than actually just.

    Now, trans men's rights DEFINITELY vary state to state. But I highly doubt that's what they were talking about.

    The only other possible thing I could think of would be how divorce and child support is handled state by state (which is just another thing pushed by the right wing politicians). Maybe some obscure differences between access to TRT? But, again, it's just a comment that is giving no context to the original post and then just ignoring the fact that there is no law towards men, and their rights to their bodies, that is anywhere near what abortion laws control. (Again, excluding trans men. But if the comment you replied to cared about that they would have mentioned it.)

    Clearly the original post isn't debating about how it's unfair that in Kentucky the passengers in cars can drink alcohol but in other states they can't. It's not a law about gender/sex. The top comment in this thread is just critizing the original post in bad faith for no real reason but being "technically correct". And for some reason it's being up voted without mentioning literally any law comparable on the level of anti abortion laws.

    I'm welcome to be proven wrong. But, seriously, there is a reason they didn't mention a specific law targeting men in certain states.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    https://freedomforallamericans.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/The-State-of-Freedom-in-America-Today_-A-Comparative-Human-Rights-Perspective.pdf

    This idea of pretending like men don't experience rights issues at the hands of the state is antithetical to forming an equal society, it only serves to disuade men from being feminists because "it isn't for them"

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

    Can you point to a specific law targeting men that is based on their body anatomy? Not men that are targeted for race, gender vs. sex identity, or sexual orientation.

    Literally, just asking for one specific law comparable to anti abortion laws. Thanks.

    There is no section in the PDF you linked talking about laws that restrict the rights of cis men based on them being cis men. Trans men, yes, but I don't think that's the context of what the original post was talking about. Maybe I missed it though.

    Or is this all a misunderstanding of the OOP not considering trans men? I'm confused.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    There are laws that force men to be financially responsible for children that aren't related to them.

    You wanting to find excuses to hate men is not a great place to start a worldview from.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    Can you be more specific? I read the PDF you linked but found no mention of any of these laws. I don't hate men. I'm literally a man. Also, I'm not trying to find something to hate men. Quite the opposite. I'm just asking you to help me find the law you are talking about. Is that so bad? Like, I read an entire PDF you linked to "prove your point" and it doesn't have anything related to what you're trying to talk about. Did you read it?

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  • [+] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    No, you don't get to dictate the direction of conversations when you don't like where you brought them.

    You have to get past this victim mentality if you ever hope to live in a world with men instead of killing them all.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (13 children)

    if you're going to be pedantic then you're sort of right. however, no state bans men from potentially life saving medical procedures when you need them.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    Um... so, first and foremost, I know trans people exist, however, I'm not sure how many men are rushing to get an abortion...

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Absolutely, but some laws can specifically impact the needs of a particular gender, historically pretty much always women. Treating everyone completely equal in cases like these tends to marginalize groups of people, which is why equity is more important than equality.

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  • [–] -3 points 11 months ago (25 children)

    Which state is it illegal to get a vasectomy?

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  • [–] 23 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    The post does not specify reproductive rights, it just says rights.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    As far as I know none. But barriers to being able to get one is wildly different. I know in New York, there's a 30 day waiting period after having a consultation with the dr before they are allowed to operate.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago*

    Is a life-saving emergency vasectomy a thing? I feel like this whole comment section is just incapable of understanding the degree of the law being discussed and the impact on an individuals life.

    Like, it would be unfair if in California men were not allowed to jwalk but women were. Kind of odd. But, like, what the fuck are we even talking about if we're comparing that to something on the level of a often life saving medical procedure?

    I'm autistic. But this comment section is making me feel neuro-typical for how incredibly hyperfocused it is on trying to act like the OOP is "technically wrong". And the best example I can find talking about cis men is your comment. I gotta be missing something. Are people really saying there is some law comparable to anti abortion laws that target cis men? I really hope it's not a 30 day waiting period for a vasectomy when the same thing probably applies for non medically necessary hysterectomys as well. Seriously, did you even look up the laws on hysterectomys in the the same state? Because that's a much more risky procedure that likely has even more restrictions.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    They didn't say it was that right specifically

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    No they are comparing men's rights to women's.

    Women's rights to life saving medical care (abortion) is being denied.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Which state is it illegal to get a tubal ligation?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Well I don't know, but have you had six separate $150+ appointments with your doc who asks you questions ranging from "well what does your boyfriend of two weeks want" to "are you really sure?" to "we're going to have to ask you attend this six week course on why it's important to produce a legacy before we can sign off on this. Then we'll see what your insurance has to say"

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    No, this is very different than that. This is about supporting one group without intentionally putting down another.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    Women have a long history of having less rights than men.

    When did they allow women to start voting? That is just one example

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    First, sorry, but it's fewer rights, not less rights, since it's countable.

    Second, sure, that's true. That's not what this is about though. There's no reference above to which group is more privileged. It's only talking about the fact that, in some places, the rights of men (and all people) do differ. I'm sure you can recognize this is true, right? Some states protect (or, rather, don't infringe on) some rights more than others, for all people, right? If you agree then the statement of the OP is definitively untrue, and the comment above is accurate.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    If someone posted "white women's rights don't vary state by state, but black women's do", they would rightfully be called out for posting nonsense. But you'd be there saying "no but black women have it worse tho" That's the equivalent. It's a clearly false statement intended to make one group an enemy instead of an ally and you shouldn't be defending it so blindly

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