Is a hot dog a sandwich?

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[–] 15 points 5 months ago (24 children)

After a lengthy (around 4 hours) discussion among our roommates, we came along with a common definition of what is commonly referred to as a “sandwich”: 

- Article 1: A sandwich is a dish consisting of a container and a filling. 

- 1.1: The container must consist of one or two connected parts 

- 1.2: It must be possible to retrieve the container without destroying it 

- 1.3: The container must consist of a starchy base.

- Article 2: The sandwich must be able to be eaten in public without any non-edible third-party items (including tables, cutlery, napkins, and so on).

- Article 3: The customary way of consuming the sandwich must be compatible with the process described in Article 2. 

Note: The sandwich is culturally defined; therefore, Article 3 is based on cultural criteria. In case of doubt, Articles 1 and 2 take precedence.

Everything here have been debated from an occidental and french persoective.

Me and my roommates would be very happy to explore new perspectives and contradictions as it would force us to make a more precise definition of the sandwich

According to us, hot dog is a sandwich as it fullfill article 1 and 2

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    So croque monsieur/madame is not a sandwich?

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    It indeed doesn't really fit the definition we have. It is a real source of disagreement among us between those who wants to reject it from sandwich and those who wants to review the ruling.

    This edgecase is really interesting and your opinion on that matter is welcomed

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Si tu me demandes de lister 100 sandwiches différents, jamais je ne citerais le croque-monsieur. Je crois que c'est parce qu'il ne devient croque-monsieur qu'une fois chauffé.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    The danger here is asking a native English speaker their opinion when it could be a very cultural distinction. A U.S. dictionary will unambiguously call it a sandwich, but that could be simply to facilitate explaining what it is to a less familiar audience; essentially ”it’s a sandwich with these unusual characteristics”.

    We also have “hot open face sandwiches” though which is typically a single slice of cheap sandwich bread topped with hot sliced meat (usually turkey or roast beef) and hot gravy.

    But if you want my opinion, yes - they’re all sandwiches (albeit non-traditional).

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    by this definition, two uncooked ramen noodle blocks stacked on eachother is a sandwich.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Not without a filling!

    Spread some peanut butter between them though, and now we're talking!

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (6 children)

    one of them is the base, the other is filling.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (5 children)

    It would be a toast then, you must make the container be around the containee

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    there was nothing about that in the rules!

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    The info probably got lost in translation. Container and conatained implies on around the other. In french this sounds obvious, maybe not in english

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    i was assuming it was lost the other way around; surely you are not arguing that open-face sandwiches like smørrebrød are not sandwiches?

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago

    I didn't knew about smorrebrod until today, and it doesn't really go in my definition of sandwich, but if you tell me that it is culturally accepted as a sandwich, it would indeed bring more useless and delicious debates to my life

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Absolutely from article 1 as disturbing as it look.

    I would also argue that 2 ramen blocks are not easy to eat in the street or anywhere as it would make fragment everywhere, making it hard to pass article 2

    Also the cultural factor (no society eats 2 ramen noodle block like that) can eliminate it from the sandwich classification, but it remains in the sandwich logic.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Coffee in a paper cup is then a sandwich.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Most people don't consider paper cup as an edible part of the dish, the cup goes in third party accesories classification

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    There's no rule against inedible containers. Only that it's made from starch.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Ok in english it's a dish, the word i used in french was "met" which desigh only the food, bot the plate, meaning "dish[met] made of container of container and containee" implies both are part of the met and then edible. Sorry for the translation unclarity

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Ok, I will eat an ice cream in a waffle cone sandwich then.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Woah never thought of this, it quite destroys the definition, thank you for participating in science methodology of proving wrong theories i love it

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    [–] 14 points 5 months ago* (11 children)

    Yes. A few weeks ago, some coworkers and I mapped out the entire sandwich taxonomy. You attain sandwich nirvana once you derive these definitions:

    1. Hot dog is a taco.
    2. Taco is a subcategory of sandwich.
    3. If the sandwich contains an additional piece of bread inside of it, it is now a lasagna.
    4. Lasagna is a subcategory of sandwich. 🤯

    Now it all makes sense. Be at peace.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (4 children)
    1. Sandwiches are just a layered salad
    2. Salad is just a drier soup

    Therefore tacos are soup

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    IMO the existence of soup in a bread bowl shows that tacos and soup are even closer to each other, evolutionarily, than most scientists think.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    And bread is just a baked soup

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (5 children)

    Lasagne is pasta not bread though?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    So if a sandwich just requires starch and fillings, could a baked potato be a sandwich?

    You could slice it nearly in half, fill it, and then pick it up and eat it.

    Potato bread exists.

    Are all foods just sandwiches?

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  • [–] 20 points 5 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] [S] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    No, no, no. A taco implies a tortilla which is a type of bread. But of a specific thiness and generally unleavened.

    A sub is a thicker and different bread. Do it doesn't qualify as a taco.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Hmmm, if I put all the internal ingredients of a taco on a single slice of bread and fold it, am I eating a taco or a Mexican themed sloppy joe?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (5 children)

    Both, because tacos are a type of sandwich

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (4 children)

    Does the presence of a product made from ground grain always result in whatever is served on them becoming a sandwich?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    If a hoagie or hero is a sandwich, then it is only logical that a hotdog is also a sandwich.

    EDIT: Since my criteria here has been cited by others and this comment, as initially presented, contributes very little to the discussion, I am amending this comment with the following information: Based on Ken Burns' Baseball documentary (at least my memory of it; been a few years), the hot dog has its genesis with guys selling food outside of a baseball park. They were selling sausages that were coiled, and served on a bun. The buns ran out and so they grabbed some Italian bread sold nearby, cutting the sausages and laying them in the bread, sliced sideways. This posits that the foundational concept of the hotdog was a conventional sandwich.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (5 children)

    No. It's in the subcategory of bread based meals like sandwiches and pizza, scones, etc. The topology is different. Sandwiches are built with layers. Hot dogs have a bread cup/container with extra condiments wedged on top.

    Hot dogs also require a sausage. Sandwiches are agnostic to sausages.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Subs here split a length of baguette or Cuban bread, or long bun. But not all the way through. Then they open it like a hot dog bun & put in the fillings. I hate hot dogs but if a sub is a sandwich, a hot dog is a sandwich.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    If the bun splits along the fold into two separate halves, does the hotdog become a sandwich?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Well, if you're riding your bike and a wheel falls off does it become a unicycle?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago*

    I'm not sure that's a valid analogy. Losing an entire wheel would be more akin to losing one half of the bun.

    The bun has lost nothing so material. The closest bike analogy might be a snapped brake or gear line, but even that might be too much, because the break in the hotdog does not significantly increase its danger level.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    This is what every Object Oriented Programmer is pondering on

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    a hot dog is a taco. is a taco a sandwich?

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Woah, woah, woah. Now that's opening a whole can of worms in of itself implying that sub's are tacos?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    either that or hot dogs are 100% sandwiches, like subs. or are you saying orientation matters? is a hot dog on its side a sandwich?

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Neither it's a taco

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    What holiday features hotdogs as it's traditional food?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    A hot dog is not a sandwich because most people do not call a hot dog a sandwich.

    The definitions of words exist based on how we use them to communicate, not to fit into perfectly logical and consistent boxes.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    A hot dog is a sandwich in the same way that tomatoes are a fruit.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago
    [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    At one point I was pretty broke and bought the super cheap hotdogs and basic sliced sandwich bread for use as buns.
    Still considered them to be hotdogs, despite being sandwich shaped.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (6 children)

    I strongly believe that two (or more) separate pieces of bread are what defines sandwichness. Therefore, no, a hot dog generally uses a bun.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    That would exclude subs, banh mi, hoagies, baguette with butter and ham (possibly one of the greatest sandwiches), and the breakfast sandwich (egg, sausage, cheese, on English muffin). Better definition is needed.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    So subway doesn't serve sandwiches?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I’ve only been once, years ago, but I thought a “sub” was a bread roll / baguette type thing. If so, then, no, I wouldn’t call it a sandwich.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    "Any object or objects that is "sandwiched" (i.e. surrounded in the middle) by another object or objects can be classified as a sandwich."

    Tacos, hotdogs, burritos, hell even sushi, are all sandwiches.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I posit the most practical and likely least precise definition of all:

    Whether something is a sandwich or not is like the difference between art and porn. You know it when you see it.

    Could loads of things fall under a technical definition of a sandwich? Totally. Is a taco a sandwich? Please.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Is a taco a sandwich?

    Yes it is. Corn flour is just as valid as a flour as any other grain! Therefore a tacoshell is a type of dough productm and a sandvich is topings between two baked dough products. Never has it been said it needs to be open on both sides!

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    If it is, so am I - I'm wearing a jacket.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Yes. A sandwich can be closed on one and open on the other side

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Only the Earl of Sandwich may designate what is or is not a sandwich. The original Sandwich sandwich was Roast Beef. Anything else is just sparkling white bread.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Given that a sub isn't a sandwich (no it isn't you uncultured filth sandwich is exclusively for the rectangle bread, the normal bread is a bocata, you call it sub) a hotdog isn't either. It's a sub for sure tho.

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