That's just bad teaching. If you're not allowed to use negatives then the teacher shouldn't be asking questions where negatives are the answer. 20-25 is NOT equal to zero whether you've learnt negatives or not.
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There’s not much worse as a kid in a learning environment, or even with your parent(s), to be shut down painfully for being right about something that they don’t know or don’t think you know. Really crushes the satisfaction of nailing a win and turns it into bitterness and starts the lifelong process of keeping your mouth shut when you’re right and letting others win when wrong.
On the other hand, its a crash course in reality of just because you're right it doesn't mean anyone gives a shit
So the school did its job just right then. High five, I quietly let people be wrong too.
This shit happened to me, but in kindergarten. I grew up in a bilingual house. I spoke English and Spanish equally. I went to the school with my mom to get assessed. She said I could read and was bilingual. The teacher didn't believe it and made me read from one of their books.
To add insult to injury, when they had Spanish class, the fucking teacher taught us that "purple" was "porpuda" and "lizard" wad "lizardo." Shit like that... My mom put me in another school.
I'm 48 and still laugh about lizardo. How absolutely stupid.
lol porpuda. was she trying to say púrpura instead of morado?
y más lagarto = lagardo = lazardo = lizardo??
poor kid
You had Peggy Hill as a full time Spanish teacher‽‽ She's supposed to be a substitute!
When I was in kindergarten, my mom got a call day 1 because I didn't know how to count to 10 supposedly. Even though I did it multiple times. I just did it in Japanese cause they never requested I do it in English. Tbf, I'm white and not bilingual.
why does this gat dang kid keep complaining about his itchy knee?!?
san yon go roku shichi hachi kyu jyu!
...jyu-ichi jyu-ni jyu-san...
Ok I'll stop now.
Ahem, not bilingual, but I definitely have a small chunk of Japanese drilled into my head after a decade + of Karate, haha.
I do have eczema, so maybe they did think that's what I was saying.
Lol my ex girlfriend had a "karate" teacher growing up. He taught them a few "Japanese" phrases. It wasn't until decades later she learned this dude just made it all up. I guess it was something you could get away with in early 90's bumfuck Wisconsin. Like this dude just rolled into town, started "karate" classes, and just kinda went with it.
Thanks, now I have a plan for trolling my kid's future kindergarten teacher.
To add insult to injury, when they had Spanish class, the fucking teacher taught us that “purple” was “porpuda” and “lizard” wad “lizardo.”
That's ridiculous! Everyone knows the correct world is lizarda! Spanish is a gendered language, the genders matter! /s
When I went to Tenerife, the chip and pin machine said "numero secreto correcto" and I'm still not convinced Spanish is a real language.
The worst part is that he was grounded by the parents. When I was younger a teacher told me I was wrong for saying that Portrush was in County Antrim, not Londonderry like she told the class. My mum brought it up at the parent teacher conference.
Same teacher also marked me wrong when asked to list loughs in Northern Ireland and Iisted Lough Beg. I was right, but it wasn't on the list that SHE gave us.
I really don't get this attitude. I've taught many classes, and making mistakes is just part of teaching. Unless you're just reading from a textbook (and even those can be wrong), you're going to make some mistakes. I'm a human being; sometimes I'm going to get stuff wrong. I try to minimize the errors, and it's not like I'm teaching subjects I'm unqualified to teach. But to err is human. Maybe it's different because I've taught undergrad students rather than K12, but IDK. I just really don't get the attitude of an educator that feels they need to conjure up an aura of unerring perfection.
if I make a mistake in some derivation, I'll just admit it, usually with some self-deprecating humor. A few things I've said to address it when it happens:
"Whoops! Guess the coffee hasn't kicked in yet!"
"Whelp, contrary to popular opinion, I am not infallible!"
"Well, I'm clearly not infallible, guess I'll never be pope!"
"No, you see, that was intentional! i was just testing you to see if you would notice my error! Obviously it can't be that I made a mistake!'
"Whelp, as you can plainly see, I am clearly drunk!"
I've said all these and other things in front of entire classrooms of students. I don't make mistakes often. But if you teach enough, it does happen. And it's always a bit annoying to the students, as they have to back up, maybe correct their notes, etc. And I try to lighten that annoyance with some levity. So I try to make my lectures as correct as possible. But when mistakes do happen, i just try not to make a big deal about them, I dismiss them with some light humor.
Honestly, I'm glad I make mistakes. I wouldn't want to teach if I didn't. Part of teaching is making students feel confident that they have the ability to wrap their heads around concepts that may be very challenging. And if even the instructor can make mistakes? Well then students hopefully won't feel so frustrated and demoralized about the ones they make.
It's a fine line to walk while teaching. On the one hand, you want to be an authoritative source of knowledge on whatever topic you're teaching. On the other, you need to be human. And part of that is not trying to portray yourself as some infallible god. Because ultimately that's not what you are. And kids are clever and perceptive; they can see through your bullshit. If you make a mistake and try to cover it up, they will see through it, and they will lose respect for you. Aside from a few reprobates, most kids have enough emotional intelligence to realize that ultimately you're just a human being trying to do your best, and that some errors are inevitable. Students are perfectly willing to forgive imperfection. They're far less willing to forgive dishonesty.
These teachers are just teaching from the same cloth they were taught from.
- The teacher is always right.
- If the teacher is wrong, refer back to rule number one.
The teaching goals in this system are to teach obedience, not information. It's highly useful when training the next generation of factory workers, not thinking individuals. The teachers are teaching a mindset.
And it varies from school to school, locale to locale. It depends on what the admin views as productive and necessary, almost like a culture in a sense, and is the difference between an inner city school vs a private elite school.
I still remember my teacher bitching me out in front of the class when we were learning negative numbers because when he asked me how I figured out the correct answer I said that the positive numbers and negatives cancelled each other out. Like -4 and positive 5, the negative 4 cancels out 4 on the positive side and you are left with 1. Maybe that wasn't the correct verbiage but it gave me the correct answer every time. He was a dick about correcting me though.
The bajillion stories in the comments about horrible experiences with math just reinforce the fact that I've made the right career choice.
I became an elementary teacher as a second career specifically because so many elementary teachers are absolutely terrible at teaching math. (Mostly because they don't actually understand the math that they're teaching. In my university cohort, almost 50% of my classmates failed the math entrance exam the first time. There was nothing more complex than 5th grade math on that test.)
Students should be allowed to use the strategies that work for them, and they should definitely never be punished for knowing math from higher grade levels.
If a student in my class knows something more advanced, I will challenge them to use grade-level-appropriate strategies to prove that their answers are correct. And if they demonstrate that they can do both, I'll give them more advanced work to help them grow.
There's good out there too. I was good at maths in school and was encouraged to do more advanced stuff
Seeing several of the most brain-dead people I knew in high school going into teaching really made me lose a little respect for teachers. Don't get me wrong, I've had some great teachers, but this really explains all the shitty ones.
Julian = 365.25 days
Gregorian = 365.2425 so you also loose a day every century but this is cancelled every 400 years.
We had computer classes where we had to learn about spreadsheets.
To do a number plus ten percent we had to put in A1+A1*10/100
I did A1*1.1 like a normal person.
She then went round to make sure everyone had put it in correctly. Got annoyed at me and changed A1 to something else to expose my folly.
Was visibly annoyed when it showed the right answer.
"Impossible" would be a more mathematically accurate answer than "zero".
It's not a matter of accuracy even, if for any two natural numbers x < y it holds x - y = 0 then x = y, which is a contradiction. So this is basic consistency requirement, basically sabotaging any effort to teach kids math.
Depends on how your mathematical system is defined. In the mathematics system this teacher is using, negative numbers simply do not exist. The answer to 5-6 is the same as 5/0: NaN. Is this mathematical system incomplete? Yes. But, as has been thoroughly proven, there is no such thing as a complete mathematical system.
I was under the impression that there is in fact such a thing as a complete mathematical system (if you take "mathematical system" in the broader sense of "internally consistent system"), but such a system would be pretty limited and therefore rather useless.
The answer would still not be 0 as 0 is clearly still well defined within that system. NaN, undefined, etc. would be acceptable answers though. Otherwise you define:
for x > y, y - x = 0
Which defines that x = y
Resulting in the conditional x > y no longer being true
Also x/0 isn't NaN. It's just poorly defined and so in computing will often return "NaN" because what the answer is depends on the numbering system used and accidentally switching/conflating numbering systems is a very easy way to create a mathmatical fallacy like the one above.
Also x/0 isn't NaN
you clearly haven't read IEEE 754
Yea, or “the first twenty are free but the remaining five you don’t have to give are a problem”.
School nearly managed to kill my curiosity.
Nooo you can't learn about this physics stuff, you haven't learned the math yet.
Yes, that's a great question, hold it until next school year.
No, I can't explain that, it's not part of the subject matter.
I had one really good high school science teacher. He pushed the school to start a class with the curriculum of "what do y'all wanna learn." I have never cared more about learning than trying to wrap my head around special relativity and the constant speed of light, or building rube goldbergs on the lab tables in the back. Imagine: kids want to enjoy learning! Fucking WOW! (little bit of spite there at the end)
Sounds like you had lame ah teachers. Some of my would take the time to explain relevant future concepts
In my school, the teachers would stop to listen to me retell complete sci-fi bullshit from the Discovery chanel.
They thought I was smart, because I liked watching that...haha...
Yeah, teachers should absolutely prioritize the kids that are a bit ahead over the majority of kids /s
yeah, but they shouldn't hold the class back because of the idiots either
I see your point but since I'm talking from my perspective, it would have done a lot if I wasn't actively held back just because it didn't fit my teachers' schedule or whatever.
Average autism experience tbh
That, and teachers really fucking hate being called out on something for some reason.
All my teachers were fine with it honestly :3 at least after primary school.. if you corrected them they might've given you extra credit
But the general notion of saying something correct and people saying that that's wrong, and not knowing why still stands
I asked my science teacher why and how the periodic table was setup like it was, I got "that's how it's setup"
But why, there as to be a reason
That's just the way they made it
Yeah because they have to have gone by something what is that something
That's just the way they did, stop asking questions (please don't fucking learn in here)
Godamn that pissed me off.
Really? We got a detailed breakdown of why the periodic table is the way it is
Yeah, turned me off to science at that age too which sucks because I was pretty into it.
in case you still care: the periodic table is arranged primarily by the chemical properties of its elements (mainly electronegativity, i.e. how much energy it takes to add/remove an electron to/from the atom) and also by their mass.
I do friend, I ended up looking into a few years later/have other teachers explain it but I never had that spark about it again
Huh? It's sorted by number of electrons/protons (atomic number) the mass is dependent on that and the number of neutrons.
The eight main groups are based on the number of electrons missing for the atom to reach a full valence shell. Once it is full (8th group, noble gasses) it starts a new Period (row). I'm not sure how the other groups are chosen (probably some quantum physics that I never had in chemistry class). After looking it up Wikipedia says it just keeps going that way.
Electronegativity describes how much it "wants" to attract negative charges and doesn't affect the order (Flourine has the highest and is in group 7). I think you may have confused it with ionization energy which would certainly match my understanding of the top half of the periodic table and probably does work for the lower half too now that I think about it.
The groups tend to have similar properties but that is not why they are sorted that way. Hydrogen for example is quite different from other elements in group one. The colours are probably better for finding common properties.
Have a look through the history section. The concept of periodicity substantially predates the quantisation of the atom. The modern table certainly considers atomic orbitals to be key, but the groups were absolutely created based on common properties.
The table that does it that way is a complete mess but I guess it was a good idea and got some things right.
They first started doing it with valence shells in 1864, Mendeleev had a pretty close one based on atomic weights in 1871 and correctly predicted that there were missing elements based on valences + weights. The atomic numbers which determine the valences appear to have been discovered about 40 years later.
I guess you are correct but I think the question was about the modern table.
Too proud to say "I don't know, I'll look it up and tell you tomorrow".
Once I got into Gifted teachers were like that. My first couple years in normie classes suuuucked.
Then in Gifted the bullies got much smarter. Fun times.
You had an extraordinary school experience.
Teachers and parents. So many tend to double down when you point out their mistakes.
All they got in life is their self-declared superiority over literal children
Really? Seems like.a very shit teacher and school. Dont think a 7 yr old getting upset by that is unusual. Id be furious of that had happened to my kid.
Its kind of a perfect example of how mediocre has become acceptable and even celebrated. And the attidues of don't question, or don't challenge. Scale that up and you start understanding how the world is as it is, particularly in the US.
Yep, am autistic, can confirm.
As with Union of Kobolds, I eventually got into the 'gifted' program... they even had me as a 2nd and 3rd grader basically being an unpaid tutor for 4th and 5th graders, sitting in the hallway, helping kids with reading difficulties (in all liklihood, undiagnosed dyslexia) read through kids books.
But, there's always classes and teachers not part of the gifted program, and they're often difficult and wrong and rude for no reason.
I still remember a chemistry teacher getting very angry with me for even bringing up quantum scale electron clouds as a model of atoms.
Not allowed to go beyond the Rutherford-Bohr model, even in discussion, always dismissive and rude, incapable of saying just 'yes that is a more accurate model, but it is far too complex to go over without understanding Rutherford-Bohr first'.
... Or just a smart kid. Me and my friend in school were also early in learning about negative numbers, but our teacher was positive about it and encouraged us to use them in the problems even though the other kids didn't need to.
Americanized versioned, but with a match teacher it went something like this:
Teacher: Whoever can solve this will get an A.
me: I have a solution.
Teacher: come out and explain it.
Me: I do just that.
Teacher: that is correct, but you didn't use the method we just learned, no A, sit down.
My experiences were to answer correctly, and then they go 'well, yes', and then don't ask me questions in the future.
Similarly I got accused of plagiarism in ninth grade on a 3 page essay, because I used big words.
This was before the days of the internet. I suppose I could have used something like Encarta, but I don’t even remember if you could copy and paste into ClarisWorks from it, and it was about a fictional book we’d read anyway.
My brother got accused by the same teacher 3 years later. He had an even better vocabulary than me and went on to study theoretical physics.
I had so many experiences like that. I was a voracious reader as a kid. I was reading books in English (my second language) about topics such as aeronautics and space exploration. I was reading far, far above the level of any classmates. And that lead persisted all through college.
Every time a new teacher would give us an essay assignment, I’d get called out to stay after class once they graded it. And they’d casually accuse me of plagiarism.
My usual response? Quiz me, right the fuck now, on any paragraph you want from that 20 page paper. And ask me the definition of any word you’re unfamiliar with. That shut them up right quick.
A large vocabulary is its own reward, but not so much when those who’re supposed to teach you are lacking in that department.
My reading journey mirrors yours. When I entered the professional workforce, I was consistently met with vacant stares when I'd use whatever words I thought perfectly fit whatever I was describing. I came to find that using "big" words like that (examples I can recall: superfluous, inimical, vacuous, cogent, avuncular) made people think I was trying to show I was better than them. I had to pare my verbal vocabulary back to the most basic form so I could do my actual job.
Granted, I was in a "white collar" job surrounded by blue collar folks.
God that teachers dumb.. Why even as the question? Why not just do 20 - 20 if you are going to be upset when a kid knows the answer. Simple! Don't ask questions you don't want the correct answers to. Teaching kids the wrong answers only messes them up the next year when they have to unlearn the bullshit you taught them.
I had a similar experience with square roots, writing both the positive and negative answers. It's wild for a teacher to actively reject correct answers because "that's not what we learned today" (the negative answers, in my case).
That's bs and also reminds me of a joke about two mathematicians at a bar:
longish math joke
Two mathematicians are in a bar. The first one says to the second that the average person knows very little about basic mathematics. The second one disagrees, and claims that most people can cope with a reasonable amount of math.
The first mathematician goes off to the washroom, and in his absence the second calls over the waitress. He tells her that in a few minutes, after his friend has returned, he will call her over and ask her a question. All she has to do is answer one third x cubed.
She repeats "one thir -- dex cue"?
He repeats "one third x cubed".
She says, "one thir dex cuebd"?
Yes, that's right, he says. So she agrees, and goes off mumbling to herself, "one thir dex cuebd...".
The first guy returns and the second proposes a bet to prove his point, that most people do know something about basic math. He says he will ask the blonde waitress an integral, and the first laughingly agrees. The second man calls over the waitress and asks "what is the integral of x squared?".
The waitress says "one third x cubed" and while walking away, turns back and says over her shoulder "plus a constant!"
I am like not really well informed about this but wasn't the square root symbol thingy (√ <- this one) always set to give the positive root? And the power of 1/2 would give both the positive and negative?
Yes, it is positive, and power 1/2 is, too. Two solutions emerge from solving equations, even primitive ones, like x^2 = C.
I had to look it up and it looks like you're right. If only my teacher had spent any effort at all explaining that.
Me, but it's a job site and the teacher is my manager and I'm 28. Had a possibility to leave in contrast to this 7 years old child
You got a trade? Self employment is a wonderful thing, lemme tell you
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