A further 58 per cent indicated it was a proposal worth exploring further

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[โ€“] 46 points 7 months ago (8 children)

Honestly i find it funny. Lets add australia and New Zeeland too! Britain leaves the union "to have trade deals with australia" then australia joins the EU. Would be the funniest shit ever

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  • [โ€“] 22 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I think you give too much credit to the morons who voted for economic suicide. They didn't vote to have deals with Australia, they all thought we were so big and important that the EU would bend over backwards to give us a favourable trade deal even though every single expert on the subject disagreed. The Australia and Canada deals came up only after we shot ourselves in the head.

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  • [โ€“] 10 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I didnt give any credit to the morons voting for economic suicide. But i pitty them for all they fell for.

    Charles de gaule said it best "britain will see the european community only as replacrment to its dying empire and wont ever dedicate itself to it"

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    de Gaulle*

    ^(Mnemotechnic : one L for may 1968 and one L for french Algeria /s)

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  • [โ€“] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    He's the one who gave up the idea of French Algeria, but ok I guess.

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  • [โ€“] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    His messaging wasn't exactly super clear in the beginning, which caused a few issues that we are still taught about in history class to this day though.

    Still have respect for the man for resisting the Nazis and staying true to his word on many very significant occasions (like resigning after losing the referendum in 68) and having seen clearly through the USA's intentions, hence the /s.

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  • [โ€“] 7 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Oi!

    We Aussies have been in Eurovision for over a decade.

    We better be let in the EU before those other cunts!

    Cheers

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  • [โ€“] 20 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    Ok, but besides the bylaws, treaties, & other whathaveyous, afaik Canada has systems (trades, standards) way close to USA than to continental European countries. From the integration pov this would be a giant task. And if Canada would gain significant power (which it would) a lot more of "USA" things & ways of life would leak to "euEU".

    It's a very complex hypothetical question that can hardly be judged via sentiment tracking at "this stage" (which isn't even a stage).

    Nevertheless positive responses are very nice, yay friends!

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  • [โ€“] 56 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    The br*tish would be so mad hahaha

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  • [โ€“] 5 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    Realistically though, if it did happen, it would make it much easier for the UK to get back into the EU.

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  • [โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Nothing like how it would make it easier legally or something. I just think that Canada shares close cultural, historic and monarchy ties with the UK, and has a very good relationship with them. I think already Canadians would be tapping up Brits to better understand how the EU works and how to get things done. And, if the UK really wanted to get back in, Canada would support that and try to make it happen.

    Culturally, the UK is already more similar in values to the EU than Canada is. If they're willing to accept Canada as a member, there really wouldn't be a reason not to take the UK back.

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  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    Make Great Britain Great Again

    MGBGA

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  • [โ€“] 34 points 7 months ago* (16 children)

    Canada is not geographically eligible to join the EU by definition. The founding treaties would need to be rewritten and re-signed by all parties, which does not seem feasible short-term. The way more likely route is more trade agreements and such, which would indeed be good for everyone

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  • [โ€“] 29 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    Fortunately, in the post-truth world we no longer have to be limited by the meanings of words or historical precedent. We can simply redefine geography whenever it suits us, others are already doing so with impunity. If the Gulf of Mexico can become the Gulf of America and South America can become the United Colonies of America, then why can't Canada become Europe? Nobody gives a fuck anymore. This isn't about getting marked correctly on an assignment, this is about survival in the face of the collapse of world order and building a fortress around social democracy before it's divided and conquered.

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  • [โ€“] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Did you really just "vibe-contract" geopolitics?

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  • [โ€“] 4 points 7 months ago*

    No, Trump did that. Technically Putin got the ball rolling by unilaterally annexing Crimea, and China's been flirting with it for years over the South China Sea and Taiwan. This is the future of geopolitics whether you like it or not.

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  • [โ€“] 11 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I don't think there is an actual definition of European state in any of the EU documents, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

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  • [โ€“] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It has been tested and Morocco didn't make the cut. I think it'd be a tough sell to argue Canada does when Morocco doesn't.

    Canada technically administers a small parcel of land in France, and Canada has a land border with an EU state.

    I do think that if Canada was genuinely prepared and unambiguously politically willing to join the EU, that the rules would get rewritten. Canada would be the 4th largest economy in the EU.

    I think any hesitation on the EU side would be basic trust that they aren't going to get jerked around by another primarily English speaking country, or have the country fall prey to unsavoury North American politics. I feel like Canada would need to do some PR work to distance ourselves from the UK and USA.

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  • [โ€“] 4 points 7 months ago

    That application was in 1987. A lot has changed. In 1987 Spain only just joined (1986). There has been for a very long time dispute about the Western Sahara, occupied by Morocco and from where a lot of previous inhabitants/resistance have since lived in Spain. It was at that time and I think it still is also just an easy excuse to not include an officially Muslim country. And a Moroccan border would be a lot harder to guard against than current borders. Little of this kind of stuff with Canada, they'd just blab about historical ties and historical times requiring historical steps etc and make it happen. Biggest obstacle would be Hungary, USA, Russia, not geography.

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  • [โ€“] 4 points 7 months ago

    Actually, you are right and I'm mostly wrong. The Maastricht Treaty just says:

    Any European State which respects the principles set out in Article 6(1) may apply to become a member of the Union. It shall address its application to the Council, which shall act unanimously after consulting the Commission and after receiving the assent of the European Parliament, which shall act by an absolute majority of its component members.

    So, what is a "European State" is effectively just a political decision by the Council and Parliament. I guess if Cyprus and Armenia were considered "European States" then Canada is not that big of a stretch.

    Additionally, the next paragraph is

    The conditions of admission and the adjustments to the Treaties on which the Union is founded, which such admission entails, shall be the subject of an agreement between the Member States and the applicant State. This agreement shall be submitted for ratification by all the contracting States in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements.

    Soo I guess even the Maastricht treaty allows itself to be modified, maybe removing the "European" criteria completely.

    So it's not as difficult as I first imagined, it's just a question of political will from Canada and the EU institutions.

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  • [โ€“] 7 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Also, being in the EU means meeting a lot of product, drug, food, etc. safety standards.

    Just to pick one, to meet electricity standards, Canadian outlets would have to accept Type C Europlug devices and supply them with 230V at 50 Hz. That would mean redoing the entire Canadian electrical grid in a way that would make it incompatible with the American one. I don't think that's realistic.

    More realistic is some variation of the deal that the EU has with Switzerland. Not in the EU but lots of bilateral deals that mostly make the border disappear for travellers.

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  • [โ€“] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Ireland is in the EU (and the UK was too) and their sockets don't accept Type C either.

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  • [โ€“] 2 points 7 months ago

    AFAIK there were a lot of exceptions granted in the early days to make sure the program got started that wouldn't be granted today.

    Also, the plug shape isn't nearly as big a deal as the voltage and frequency.

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  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago

    That was a threat from last March when Trump was actively threatening to annex Canada and the tariff wars were just starting.

    It was an effective threat because the US is very dependent on Canadian electrical generation. And, the grid was never disconnected because Canada makes a lot of money selling electricity to the US.

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    [+] 37 points 7 months ago (8 children)
  • [โ€“] 13 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    What chance do the Europeans have against Celine Dion, Justin Bieber, Shaniah Twain, and Ted Cruz?

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  • [โ€“] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Avril lavine, NEIL YOUNG, rush

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  • [โ€“] 13 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    How hard is it to move a country to get it into the EU?

    Assuming you don't have a couple hundred million years.

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  • [โ€“] 13 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Canenter, Canentrance, Can'entree?

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  • [โ€“] 10 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It makes sense because right now UE is running so smooothly. Everyone interests are aligned.

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  • [โ€“] 8 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    It kinda makes sense when you thinkabout greenland.

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  • [โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    It would if Greenland were in the EU. And it's odd that it isn't. But Greenland isn't "part of" Denmark. They form a union along with the Faroe Islands and chose to leave the EU.

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  • [โ€“] 8 points 7 months ago*

    Some kind of North Atlantic Trade Organization?

    Or how about my favourite game title from the 90s that I never played: Federation of Free Traders

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  • [โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Higher sales tax but sane policy like GDPR and workers rights by comparison in competition are a strong pull for me in this. I don't hate the idea so long as we don't receive just all the hardships on the bottom while the wealth class get all the benefits. Had Canada actually kept their budget in order and not just pissed it away into debt when they had the chance? I might be more for sovereignty but I'd definitely take advantage of all the additional opportunity to contribute to brain drain if it made sense. I actually think they would find difficulty in keeping Canadians staying in Canada if this was an option.

    Even within Canada I feel trapped by low rent in a high cost of living area and I don't want to gamble on leaving the only leg up I have in the world. Leaving this situation could open me up to so many jobs but the value at the end of the day doesn't make sense because I'd be starting over in rent costs at the current market rate. So I can't make it make sense. This hurts my earning potential lifelong but what good is earning potential if it all ends up in someone else's pocket while I take higher risk positions.

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  • [โ€“] 10 points 7 months ago (10 children)
  • [โ€“] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The year is 2098, Earth has finally found peace and united under one flag, except for England, who is sticking to its Brexit plans.

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  • [โ€“] -4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    A more formal unification of white settler-colonial states would be a "united Earth," eh? I wonder if anyone in the past said such a thing and what they did about it. ๐Ÿง

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  • Real Americans support this.

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  • [โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm up for it just to trigger and over power Trump's permanent term

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  • [โ€“] 5 points 7 months ago

    Lately I take the stance of no more member countries until veto is removed.

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  • [โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (14 children)

    We should develop much closer commercial and other ties (eg regulatory) with the EU but Canada should not outright join. We don't need the Euro and we don't need the European Stability and Growth Pact. Lower as many barriers, but we have to keep control of our basic economic policy levers.

    Edit: by the way, after looking it up, I'm finding that EU rules about "State Aid" would make the new NDP platform (Avi Lewis campaigned on public options and Crown corporations for various sectors, and buy-canadian rules to protect workers during the green transition) infeasible. So... no, I'm not interested in joining an economic bloc that makes democratic socialism functionally impossible.

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Similar to the deal the UK got?

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  • [โ€“] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    The UK was in, fucked up and crashed out. It also has some very weird peculiarities due to the Good Friday Agreement.

    I suspect a version of the Swiss model is probably best for Canada, with high integration and Schengen membership but done very granularly on a bilateral basis.

    Edit, I changed my mind, see above.

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    Adopting the Euro isn't a requirement, so kinda a weird thing to say.

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  • [โ€“] 7 points 7 months ago* (10 children)
  • [โ€“] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    With precedent of an opt-out clause.

    There are plenty of reasons to join or not join a union of any kind.

    "But Canada would be forced onto the Euro" to me reads as straight propaganda because it acts directly as an identity wedge. This is even before it not being strictly true.

    If you're concerned about Canada joining the EU, you can merely state that article 49 restricts membership to European states, and it has already been tested by Morocco.

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  • [โ€“] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    The Danish opt out is not a precedent, it was grandfathered in when the 1992 Maastricht treaty was signed. The same treaty requires all new members to eventually join the euro once the convergence criteria are satisfied.

    And chill it with the propaganda accusations. Some times people actually know what they're talking about and poisoning the conversation with bad faith accusations of some hidden propaganda agenda is just fucking toxic.

    I don't need "identity" issues to argue against the EU. My actual deepest objections stem from the State Aid EU rules that make democratic socialist policies impossible. I just voted for Avi Lewis to lead the NDP and his public option policy proposals are literally illegal in the EU framework. That's my actual argument against joining a constitutionally neoliberal economic bloc. If the EU tomorrow abolished those rules I would have less of a problem.

    Edit: the Euro and the SGP are also problems. Even Trudeau's moderate deficits would have not been allowed under the SGP. And pegging to the Euro doesn't make that much sense either, especially when we have Dutch disease in Alberta and we're generally a materials exporter. My disagreement is economic not identitarian. I'm a dual EU citizen for fucks sake.

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  • [โ€“] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    For the record, what makes it smell like propaganda is that I actually do think you're very aware of the pros and cons, and that you keep leading with the currency argument when it's by far the weakest argument. It's the most emotionally persuasive argument,however, because it's suggesting Canadians part with a tangible everyday item. People were flustered losing the penny. It pulls emotional levers that simply are not pulled by things like budget deficits and Dutch elm disease. It pulls emotional levels that need not be pulled or even approached because the point is settled already by Article 49. I think you absolutely know all of this, and that is my point.

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  • [โ€“] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Poland doesn't use the Euro either

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  • [โ€“] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    ...yet. They're forced to adopt it sooner or later.

    Only Denmark is exempted from adopting it ever.

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  • [โ€“] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    And the UK was too.

    But even a single exception proves that it is not needed to join the EU.

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  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago

    It is needed if you want to join. It was not needed, if you were a member before the Euro got adopted. Hence opt outs for eg. Denmark, and UK back in the day. It is not so sure the opt outs would hold if the UK wanted to join back.

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago

    That would be so cool

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  • Not sure if their new immigration policy is gonna fly, were the government to agree to that

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  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    So they'll take Canada but not Turkiye?

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