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Canada in the European Union? Poll suggests broad openness to the idea (cheknews.ca)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/buyeuropean@feddit.uk
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A further 58 per cent indicated it was a proposal worth exploring further

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[โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (14 children)

We should develop much closer commercial and other ties (eg regulatory) with the EU but Canada should not outright join. We don't need the Euro and we don't need the European Stability and Growth Pact. Lower as many barriers, but we have to keep control of our basic economic policy levers.

Edit: by the way, after looking it up, I'm finding that EU rules about "State Aid" would make the new NDP platform (Avi Lewis campaigned on public options and Crown corporations for various sectors, and buy-canadian rules to protect workers during the green transition) infeasible. So... no, I'm not interested in joining an economic bloc that makes democratic socialism functionally impossible.

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Similar to the deal the UK got?

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  • [โ€“] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    The UK was in, fucked up and crashed out. It also has some very weird peculiarities due to the Good Friday Agreement.

    I suspect a version of the Swiss model is probably best for Canada, with high integration and Schengen membership but done very granularly on a bilateral basis.

    Edit, I changed my mind, see above.

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    Adopting the Euro isn't a requirement, so kinda a weird thing to say.

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  • [โ€“] 7 points 7 months ago* (10 children)
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  • [โ€“] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    With precedent of an opt-out clause.

    There are plenty of reasons to join or not join a union of any kind.

    "But Canada would be forced onto the Euro" to me reads as straight propaganda because it acts directly as an identity wedge. This is even before it not being strictly true.

    If you're concerned about Canada joining the EU, you can merely state that article 49 restricts membership to European states, and it has already been tested by Morocco.

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  • [โ€“] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    The Danish opt out is not a precedent, it was grandfathered in when the 1992 Maastricht treaty was signed. The same treaty requires all new members to eventually join the euro once the convergence criteria are satisfied.

    And chill it with the propaganda accusations. Some times people actually know what they're talking about and poisoning the conversation with bad faith accusations of some hidden propaganda agenda is just fucking toxic.

    I don't need "identity" issues to argue against the EU. My actual deepest objections stem from the State Aid EU rules that make democratic socialist policies impossible. I just voted for Avi Lewis to lead the NDP and his public option policy proposals are literally illegal in the EU framework. That's my actual argument against joining a constitutionally neoliberal economic bloc. If the EU tomorrow abolished those rules I would have less of a problem.

    Edit: the Euro and the SGP are also problems. Even Trudeau's moderate deficits would have not been allowed under the SGP. And pegging to the Euro doesn't make that much sense either, especially when we have Dutch disease in Alberta and we're generally a materials exporter. My disagreement is economic not identitarian. I'm a dual EU citizen for fucks sake.

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  • [โ€“] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    For the record, what makes it smell like propaganda is that I actually do think you're very aware of the pros and cons, and that you keep leading with the currency argument when it's by far the weakest argument. It's the most emotionally persuasive argument,however, because it's suggesting Canadians part with a tangible everyday item. People were flustered losing the penny. It pulls emotional levers that simply are not pulled by things like budget deficits and Dutch elm disease. It pulls emotional levels that need not be pulled or even approached because the point is settled already by Article 49. I think you absolutely know all of this, and that is my point.

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  • [โ€“] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Poland doesn't use the Euro either

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  • [โ€“] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    ...yet. They're forced to adopt it sooner or later.

    Only Denmark is exempted from adopting it ever.

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  • [โ€“] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    And the UK was too.

    But even a single exception proves that it is not needed to join the EU.

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  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago

    It is needed if you want to join. It was not needed, if you were a member before the Euro got adopted. Hence opt outs for eg. Denmark, and UK back in the day. It is not so sure the opt outs would hold if the UK wanted to join back.

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