1106
wtf is even happening (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world
124 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

https://orbital.horse/@emma/116332735635208111

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

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[–] 197 points 7 months ago (26 children)

They are at war against ownership (not raspberry pi org, but the general oligarchy). It's the next step coming after "every software is a cloud service subscription". We are heading towards the "you can't own a computer, just rent one from the cloud". In this day and age, computers are necessary, for everything, for education, public services, employment, entertainment. Once we have to pay taxes to the Lords in order to have access to our mean of substance, we are essentially in a new era of feudalism.

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  • [–] 107 points 7 months ago

    One could call it "technofeudalism".

    That's exactly where this is headed. Modern day slavery. They take away the usability of offline devices so we only use their devices to use their apps and work for their companies, and anyone trying to circumvent this (VPNs, refusing Age Verification, Piracy, FOSS) gets visited by the technofeudalists' friends at ICEstapo.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

    I'm not too worried about this. It sucks for the time being, and who knows how long they economy will suffer when the US fully collapses. The silver lining is that the actual cost of producing the hardware doesn't match the inflated evaluation of it. The drivers of this won't be able to sustain the hoarding. Don't get me wrong, it's bad. Anyone with a time machine would probably chose to give Peter and Sam a visit.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I don't know, people said the same about videocard prices during the crypto boom, the 2020 shortage and every time prices just went up. I doubt prices will go down

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Prices going up has to match the demand for the supply. Price goes too high, then there is enough incentive for competitors to come into the market and increase supply. In the long run, it hurts the hoarders.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    So when will GPUs get cheaper again?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    In the case of competitors popping up, painfully long time. But acutely things are looking good. There is no money backing up these bullshit contracts.

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  • [+] -12 points 7 months ago (16 children)

    IT people have been saying that everything would be run in the cloud for the last 25 years. The truth is that processing is not profitable. They will not offload all processing into the cloud nor do they want to. The struggle is against right to repair/modify and ownership/control of software.

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  • [–] 33 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    They can make "processing" profitable when their service is the only available option and they can charge whatever price they want for lackluster quality of service.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    You said we're heading to "you can't own a computer, just rent one from the cloud".

    What I'm saying is that since at least the 1990s / early 2000s we have had dumb terminals that connect to the server that does all the processing and provides the video signal. People were saying this was what everyone would be using in the future. The fact that you are still saying this makes me really skeptical. When will this be?

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    The Data-Terminals and mainframe architecture of the time was a technical solution emerging from limitations of the time, bulky and pricey electronics. Also, computers at the time were used for special tasks.

    Today, we can fit an ultra powerful computer in your pocket, no problem. You practically can't survive without a smartphone (or computer), or yes you can survive, but you can't be part of society without one.

    Today's trend to takeaway the computing power off the hands of normal citizens, when it's so cheap and practical to have it, is not driving by technical limitations (or improvement of technology). It's driven my the goal to extract every bit of money, ownership and finally freedom that we have have citizens.

    Why would they give you the option to buy a top of the line 2000€ laptop and let you use it with Linux for everything you need until the heat-death of the universe when they can can extort you of 200€/month instead? Much more profitable. They can change the price whenever they want and you will have no choice but pay, because you can't even find a single DDR3 RAM stick to buy anywhere! Why would they just let you use the heated sits in your car when they can extort you of a 60€/month subscription for it, on top of the 70k€ buying price ?

    It's not a technical trend, it's an ideological one.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    You really think "they" are going to make computers and Linux illegal so they can force you to pay $200 a month for their own platform? Hilarious that people agree with you

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago*

    They don't have to make alternative OS illegal, they can simply make it unusable.

    It's not necessarily done my pure evil intent, it just happens as a side effect of other decisions.

    One example right now is how Google is locking down the Android platform by making side loading mode difficult in the name of security. But more generally with the example of Android, how Google set the standard by providing frameworks and development tools in their terms, that become the defacto standard without any kind of industry wide consultation, is a big problem. My banking app use to have its own implementation of the NFC payment, it worked perfectly fine with GrapheneOS, now they updated the app and decided to just integrate the Google Wallet instead of maintaining their own implementation of the feature. Now it can't be used with GrapheneOS. In this example, Google is in full control, and I, can't do anything about it even if I am savvy enough to use custom ROM on my phone. Google didn't act evil, they provide some tools and service, the bank didn't act evil, they are just make technical choices that make financial sense, but in the end it contributes to take away our rights. I can either decide NFC payment with my phone is not worth signing a contract with Google and give up the feature, or I can decide my privacy is not worth the hassle and move back to the Google "certified" version of Android.

    In the end, if a corporation can make more money, they will cease the opportunity. And they will absolutely make it illegal for you to own things or make choices if they have enough political leverage. Just look at all the DMCA and other anti "piracy" laws out there! In the USA it's a federal crime to break a digital lock even on a product you bought and paid for ! It is defacto illegal to do what you please with something you "own".

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Yes, if I was a tech CEO I'd promote you for that idea right now!

    This is exactly the plan. How can you not see it?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    They're not capable of long term planning like that. We can barely lay fiber in dense neighborhoods, and some places only get LTE. Imagine how much infrastructure would have to be built, billions of dollars of fiber means billions of dollars that aren't going directly into the pockets of billionaires.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    I remember it too, the dreaded thin clients are coming to kill your desktop. Honestly I'd love it if there was a viable option. You just can't do it though - look at Stadia. Until graphics can be processed without a local card you're only catering to net nanny's and the slightly Amish. Ahhhh Web TV.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Have you heard about AWS and Azure?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Web servers have definitely moved from on-premises to the cloud, but there are also things that haven't, and a lot of that was because of consumer pushback. Google Stadia was a flop, even though it was being talked about like it was a foregone conclusion that no one would want/need a console after Stadia came out.

    I think that what workerONE is saying is probably right: the industry will let you own a powerful device (probably a heavily locked-down phone), and they'll still be able to charge you for access to cloud storage and services. That's the most profitable thing for them to do (and of course anti-consumer), so they'll do it. They won't need to prevent you from owning hardware, they can just charge you a monthly fee anyway, even though you have access to hardware yourself. The restrictive phone OS means you won't even be able to do much with that powerful CPU in your pocket.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Stadia failed because it had huge issues with latency and video compression. Nvidia and Xbox are doing the same now and they do have people actually using it. The whole strategy from Microsoft is building a subscription gaming empire, both in software and hardware.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Stadia also had people, question is whether it becomes the majority.

    They can and do drm their way to subscribing to the game content but still letting the end devices run the game. Cheaper for them compared to hosting, so long as they assure themselves that games can't be cracked offline, but for multiplayer games they further control the online aspects.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    I suppose the point is that those are mostly selling location and networking, the processing is essentially incidental.

    They don't have reason to mind consumers being able to have lots of processing, memory, and storage. They have plenty of hooks to track the users and gain control of their data, and tracking users and holding their content hostage is very profitable without having to fight users.

    Self hosting isn't a threat to them, local gaming rigs isn't a threat.

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    • [–] 58 points 7 months ago

    $270 of the price is for the RAM.

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    [–] 48 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I didn't believe it, i mean they were pricey as hell but this is taking the biscuit now 😞

    VtzOZObHMLUCaBb.jpg

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I feel pretty mixed about this to be honest. I haven't bought a Pi in a long time but from what I can see the 5 is pretty clever. It's expensive but RAM is insanely expensive right now. 16GB of RAM alone is expensive. That same RAM jump would cost thousands from Apple.

    Meanwhile, the Pi 3 is still on sale for around £30, and the Pi Zero for closer to £10. If you genuinely want something for embedded systems or running scripts the older models are still fantastic for that. The Pi 5 is a viable desktop computer and just in a different category IMO.

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    • [–] 44 points 7 months ago

    We went from cheap hobby computer to luxury item with emotional damage real quick 💀

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    [–] 31 points 7 months ago

    I read a headline yesterday that said the rpi price increase was "eye watering". I believe that's called journalistic understatement.

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    [+] 28 points 7 months ago (5 children)
    [deleted]
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    • [–] 26 points 7 months ago

    I miss when technology would get cheaper and better.

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    [–] 23 points 7 months ago (18 children)

    I really should sell all the optiplexes I have instead of recycling them. I bet I could make some ok money.

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (17 children)

    I bought a HP ProDesk 400 G5 Desktop Mini (16GB RAM; 256GB ssd; Intel Core i5-9500T) in December 2025 for £105 delivered.

    There's money to be made.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (16 children)

    I think you’re right

    I have about 24 to get rid of…

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    😵‍💫😲

    Tell me you didn't collect them over time

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Specs?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (6 children)
    • OpitPlex 9020
    • Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4590 (4) @ 3.70 GHz
    • 12 gigs of ram
    • 128 or 256 gig SSDs
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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Make a nice little TV box, what are you asking?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    No idea lol

    I've been sitting on them at work for like 4 years.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Are they the mini one of the normal "mini tower" box? I'd hate to see the shipping on the bigger one.

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    • [–] 22 points 7 months ago

    I hope one of the effects will be that people stop building 5gb websites and apps on some weird js framework to show a tweet or sth. Efficiency is one of the things we can improve

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    [–] 20 points 7 months ago

    Fuck me, I thought it was an exaggeration

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    [–] 18 points 7 months ago

    Raspberry Pi's were amazing when they were like $30.... cheap enough to be accessible to most people and you could do a lot with them. I still have an older Pi that runs pihole.

    Now that it's $300, there are a lot of other options out there. I find it hard to recommend a Pi anymore.

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    [+] 28 points 7 months ago (5 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    We are in the early stages of post capitalism. Capitalism has finished, the major players have won and there won't be any new major players emerging. Post capitalism is where economic systems no longer operate under traditional capitalist principles. It's about the shift away from labour being the foundation of wealth.

    Read up on it, the world is quite clearly transitioning

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    Sounds like Varoufakis's book. I didn't like it.

    This is just monopoly capitalism, which is a stage of capitalism. This is just the late-stage, just before we hit the end-stage when overproduction and the falling rate of profit lead to world war to remove the surplus and induce new demand for reconstruction.

    And we're barreling right into WW3 as we speak.

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    • [–] 13 points 7 months ago

    That isn't really fair. After all raw sewage can be used to create fertilizer and the output of the slop machines can't.

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    [–] 13 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Wow it has gotten that bad, and now price to performance is now shit.
    Am curious if Orange Pi raised in Price too.

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    • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    But think about all the porn you could make with AI!

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    • [–] 12 points 7 months ago

    Good news is that micro controllers and used office PCs are still fairly affordable by comparison... for now.

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    [–] 76 points 7 months ago (24 children)

    To be fair, who needs 16GB of RAM on a Pi? The hell are you running on it that needs that? Are you trying to use it as a desktop?

    Considering the 3 only had 2GB of ram, and the 4 only had 4GB of ram for the longest time, it's probably better to compare the 8GB model. Which is still $135.

    Even the 1GB model is $50. Fucking ridiculous.

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    I have the 8 GB one.
    I agree the 16 GB one is useless (especially how weak it is,I would rather buy a Optiplex or Thinkpad for that price with 16gb ram)

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Power efficiency is still a consideration. I am 100% for rehoming business waste. I have several optiplex and think station's. Modern AMD and Intel are getting better. But still not there in efficiency. And older systems certainly aren't. But sadly, at this point unless that or space are at a premium. For home lab use they are much less viable now.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Tbh I've been running some repurposed "office waste" as you put it on 8-10W and 10-12W (idle but also even with some load the consumption doesn't tick up meaningfully). On 8th gen and 7th gen intel core i5s respectively.

    I don't recall how much RPis use up - I'm sure it is/can be less, but 10W is also really low, no? Especially as far as a full server box with spinning rust and all that goes.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Oh true.
    Thats why i bought a rpi5 (when it was still 80 usd),I love how you can run it from a powerbank and a usbc screen concurrently.
    Which am currently doing with mine.
    I also like how you can make it portable.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Yes I'm very interested in different ISAs myself. Looking to make a super portable system from an SBC. Although I'm waiting to see what these upcoming RVA23 RiscV SBCs are going to bring. And hopefully build something around one of them. If by the point they come out later this year Hardware just hasn't become unaffordable entirely.

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  • [–] 21 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    Are you trying to use it as a desktop?

    Why not. It has enough power. But you can easily consume all that RAM if you run Minecraft server, or crypto software

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    But why would you do that on a raspberry?

    I mean if you have one already go ahead do your thing! But here we're talking buying a new one.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    At that price it's really pointless.

    But at normal prices, you can slap passive radiator on it, and have perfectly decent server for these things taped to the wall behind your desk. Zero noise, minimal power consumption, works reliably 24h

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    Yeah sure, those small pieces are marvels for stuff like that!

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    It actually saves you decent money compared to regular optiplex. In 24h work power savings translate into meaningfully lower electricity cost over the year.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    I think mine is like 10 watts so not very expensive yearly, like 20€. And everyone forgets that for many, it's just energy you'd use for heating anyways during many months of the year.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Yeah, but it's only 100% efficient at best. Heat pumps are 200% - 400% so it is not really a 1 to 1 as far as heating. And in warm months you have to offset that heat so it very well could be a net loss.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Sure, that 20€ will really hit me hard 😁 /j

    Nice find about heat pump efficiency, I had not thought about that!

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Ehhhhh it kinda has enough power.

    I have an 8GB Pi5 we use as a desktop in our living room. PiOS is sluggish to navigate, even though it’s an 8GB pi5 running off an NVMe SSD instead of a memory card. It’s just there to stream YT and Twitch and whatnot though, and it streams at 60FPS no problem once you’ve got the stream pulled up.

    I wouldn’t recommend it as a desktop PC though, as navigating the OS and loading programs is not a great experience.

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