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[–] 43 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Ugh

Fuck Dolby. I mean fuck Snap too, but with this case, in specific, fuck Dolby.

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  • [+] -21 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    You shut your dirty whore mouth! Dolby has done some amazing things for the world of music and cinema!

    https://projectionniste.net/docs/A%20Chronology%20of%20Dolby%20Laboratories%201965%20-%201998.pdf

    https://professional.dolby.com/siteassets/cinema/cie-innovation-tech/cie-innovation-tech-dolby.pdf

    While I am a big cinema and tech guy, I don't exactly know what goes into the AV1 codec of the top of my head, nor have I read the article yet, but I can bet they're not 100%in the wrong.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago

    Tl;DR

    Yet, Dolby’s lawsuit filed in the US District Court for the District of Delaware [PDF] alleges that AV1 leverages technologies that Dolby has patented and has not agreed to license for free and without receiving royalties. The filing reads:

    [AOMedia] does not own all patents practiced by implementations of the AV1 codec. Rather, the AV1 specification was developed after many foundational video coding patents had already been filed, and AV1 incorporates technologies that are also present in HEVC. Those technologies are subject to existing third-party patent rights and associated licensing obligations.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    Just write the specs and tests, then let AI implement it, done! It's valid opensource 😇

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Can someone provide a TLDR?

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  • [–] 21 points 7 months ago*

    I have no expertise in this field and this is what I got just from reading the article without doing any further research.

    It seems that a consortium of giant tech companies got together to make a royalty-free video codec called AV1. This included getting legal agreements from a bunch of relevant patent holders that they wouldn't pursue legal action against anyone implementing AV1.

    However, due to the U.S. patent office's current policy of issuing patents left and right and letting applicants sort out whether or not their patents are actually unique in court later, lawyers representing Dolby and a couple of other companies that hold some separate video-related patents have smelled money in the water and are trying to sort out whether or not their patents are unique in court.

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  • 46 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 204 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    So just to be clear for all of you:

    Dolby is not a creator of AV1, Dolby is not in charge of licensing decisions for AV1. All companies involved in HVEC and AV1 have not performed bait and switch.

    What has happened is that Dolby alleges that they already have a patent on parts of what makes AV1 work. This may be an accident, or maybe someone stole Dolby’s tech. This may be something that can be fixed by changing how the software works, without breaking the file format.

    It will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

    Also, I’ve been saying it for 30 years at this point, and I will keep saying it: FUCK patents, software patents especially, and fuck the stupid system of capitalism for making them necessary

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  • [–] 41 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Dolby: we have a patent that ug let's you do shit to a file so it comes out in another format. We own all formats now and forever!

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  • [–] 71 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    AV1 has been out almost ten years and Dolby's first case is with Snapchat? Bruh

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  • [–] 35 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Which is a damn good point. If you don't protect a patent in a reasonable time frame I believe you lose the right to protect it. If Dolby has had this patent for a long time, and allowed it to become part of a standard, it may be a quick dismissal of the case.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Thinking of trademarks? I'm not sure, but I feel like that is true. To quote a true asshole: "I'm just asking questions".

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    No. Pretty sure it's true of patents too. Might depend on which court you're in.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Trademarks I think are the most commonplace for this to happen, but I believe it applies to all IP. I don’t believe that any laws are written with specific timeframes but if the court feels that a right holder knew about and didn’t take action against an infringer within a “reasonable” time (as to be determined by the count based on the circumstances surrounding the case), then an implicit license is inferred.

    If this was not done, it would encourage right holders to wait out infringement in order to achieve larger settlements.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago

    Oh, I’m not saying this to defend Dolby’s actions, IMHO and IANAL but this feels like a “see if this shit sticks” type of deal.

    Maybe this is something specific that Snapchat’s implementation does and isn’t directly related to AV1 and the headline is clickbait? Hard for me to know.

    I just wanted to point out that AV1’s consortium doesn’t seem to be rugpulling as some other commenters on here seem to feel.

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  • [–] 52 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Rather, the AV1 specification was developed after many foundational video coding patents had already been filed, and AV1 incorporates technologies that are also present in HEVC.

    Like file()

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  • [–] 81 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    This wording is wild. They did not say that AV1 uses patented material - they said that AV1 includes some technologies that are in HEVC. Dolby doesn't have a case, and they know it. They are trying to use wording that twists the truth to make it sound like they are in the right.

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  • [–] 136 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Patents on software shouldn't exist!

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  • [–] 72 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Patents on software shouldn't exist!

    This is my take.

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  • [–] 37 points 7 months ago

    5 year patents should exist IMHO. I think that's a reasonable chance to monetise an invention. Short enough to remove the use of patents as munitions between companies.

    After that it's open season and you've allowed society to use it in any way in return for that 5 year protection.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I agree. It‘s the only way to actually overcome capitalism. Same rules for all is important of course.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    No patents ensures that if an individual does invent something, only corporations can profit off it because they can just put the inventor out of business by undercutting, rather than having to pay the inventor.

    Unfortunately, they do protect corporations more than individual inventors purely because corporations have more R&D budget.

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  • [–] 67 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Screw Dolby. I'll only ever encode in AV1 and in the future AV2. HEVC won't ever be ubiquitous like h.264 and VVC has already had support dropped by Intel processors after only one generation of hardware support. 6 years after the standard was finalized and VVC is still practically non-existent in consumer hardware

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    For what it's worth, HEVC seems to have much better hardware support than AV1.

    AV1 encodes are also extremely rare when it comes to unofficial content releases.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    Yep, it really seems that all that money goes into coehersion so everyone uses their proprietary format. It is hard to actually come across high quality video releases that are in AV1 - even if you prefer the loyalty free nature of AV1.

    But in terms of hardware, AV1 is getting more popular. For one, it is a relatively new format.

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Fuck patents on software. May every person who applys for one be jabbed by the LA aids jabber.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    but I've been standardising my library on AV1

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    We all knew this was going to happen one day or another.

    Where's Theora these days, byw? Wasn't it the encoding blessed by the license druids?

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Theora is an old and very inefficient codec. VP8, VP9, and now AV1 have succeeded it.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    But all of those are VPs are patent encumbered, right?

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    They are not supposed to be but Sisvel claims they are.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Because they always do, not because they have a legitimate claim.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    In the US system at least it matters not if your claim is legitimate, the mere fact that you can file it poses a severe risk.

    Patent system needs fixing from the foundations up. Or even better, full abolition.

    In the meantime, what's the better actually open codec to reencode to?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    AV1. Netvc didn't happen, and parts of Daala and Thor were integrated into AV1. Google has the only relevant patents and gave the world an irrevocable license to use it freely.

    This is as close as you can get. The sisvel patent trolls will put their grubby fingers onto everything you can call “video codec”, and make up ways they can milk people stupid enough to pay them.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Why exactly are they targeting a non-governing member of the alliance?

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 7 months ago

    Maybe I should just reencode all my stuff in VVC 😮‍💨

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 37 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The license is royalty free. AOMedia requires it's contributors to contribute royalty free, and AOMedia has worked hard to ensure it doesn't infringe anyone else's IP, but that doesn't stop other companies (some patent trolls) from asserting "You can't do xyz without infringing some obscure patent I own." These companies (like Dolby) target the companies that license AV1, and say "You've infringed my IP. Pay me $x per product that implements AV1, or I will sue you for much greater damages." So AV1 really is licensed royalty free, what we have here is a third party that isn't part of AOMedia (that really liked making money the old way) trying to extract revenue on dubious claims of patent essentiality.

    The fun part is that nobody really knows (or cares) whether AV1 is really infringing any IP. They know that the threat of litigation is likely to induce enough people to just pay that the whole charade is worth it. And perhaps ironically, the companies like Dolby want to litigate even less than the companies they are threatening because litigation tends to be a winner take all thing. If they lose, then nobody pays them; not even the companies they bullied into paying. The video codec IP world has operated this way for decades. This is what AOMedia hoped to change. It's Governing Members are some heavy hitters. If they were to defend AV1, they could easily out-muscle players like Dolby. That might happen, but these sorts of things play out over a very long time horizon.

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  • 4 comments in c/opensource@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Quotes "patent expert" Florian Müller ... just no.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Didn't read the linked PDFs in the article, but the article itself doesn't mention what patents AV1 would have broken.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    but the article itself doesn’t mention what patents AV1 would have broken

    The article does mention and links them

    Dolby is accusing Snap of infringing upon four of its patents: U.S. Patent No. 10,855,99 “Inter-plane prediction”; U.S. Patent No. 9,924,193 “Picture coding supporting block merging and skip mode”; U.S. Patent No. 9,596,469 “Sample array coding for low-delay”; and U.S. Patent No. 10,404,272 “Entropy encoding and decoding scheme.”

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    This is so sad, and bad, and tragic :(

    These central standards should be a common good. Pay out the patents with a fair price and move them into the public good. I imagine they already made more than enough money through these patents through HEVC.

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  • 1 comment in c/technology@beehaw.org view that post
    [–] 10 points 7 months ago

    What a society we live in! I know at least four other unhoused people within a quarter mile, and Dolby is concerned about extracting even more money from other businesses. We have a caste system.

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