top 82 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 40 points 7 months ago (19 children)

The issue is that it's not one problem, it's thousands. Anarchism has countless solutions for countless power vacuums, from regulating the flow of meetings to federating different Zapatista towns.

You yourself are probably engaging in anarchic power vacuum mitigation when your friend group decides when to hang out and what to do; if anyone got too much power or responsibility you would take action to make things fair again.

Generally speaking, power vacuums are dismantled by dissolving the hierarchies that can be dissolved, changing the material conditions so power is decentralized, and building a social structure to hold the remaining power conditional on not being authoritarian. You can probably remember doing these things with your friends (or former friends).

Anarchist theory is either descriptive, like critically analysing the Zapatistas, or it's putative, like sociocracy. So far we have no proven overarching theory of what works for everyone everywhere in every situation, but we do have lots of small anarchist collectives that are benefiting their members and their society in limited scopes.

  • source
  • hideshow 19 child comments
  • [+] -14 points 7 months ago* (17 children)

    This is the best answer. Anarchist societies do not work in practice. They work in theory.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 17 child comments
  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    It's more that they don't scale well. What works well in a small group of friends will fall apart long before you scale it up even to just a national level, much less all of humanity.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    The Zapatistas show that region-scale anarchy can work and remain stable. You need more careful and explicit structures to do things at scale, but the same goes for nation-states, just look at the average state's legal and regulatory codes. Compared to trying not to break the law in a nation-state, participating in local anarchist organizing committees is child's play.

    We've only had the opportunity to apply this at a scale larger than the smallest 30-or-so nations, but in theory systems like sociocracy can nest exponentially, meaning there are applications that are already halfway to a world government.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I am not sure if I would call it Anarchism if it has explicit structures

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Maybe you're using some formal or narrow definition of "structure" but in my experience there are lots of things I would call structures in anarchist theory and practice, from meeting templates to the mental flowcharts of emergency medicine.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] [S] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    insert alt-right fantasy about how great ancient Europe was /s

    Jokes aside, the cities model worked because that was the scale a society was able to grow to. Transport was very difficult as was communication. And even in the ancient cities there was a power hierarchy with councils of elders and stuff.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    would anarchy work better in addition to some other system that does not rely on hierarchy?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    What system does not rely on any hierarchy? That is supposed to be Anarchism

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    maybe something that has semi hierarchy, that can be dismantled on a whim if needed? Have the best from both worlds. Like, anarchy + democrady -> voting system, but politican can be removed at any time by anyone, meaning that they have to actually do good job to keep representing people. Cant even try pleasing everyone and do nothing as that wont help either. Abusers get dealt with in same way as abusers get dealt with in regular anarchy. Though all this relys on humans being even semi rational and decent, which kind of makes it utopistic idea. But it would still work likely better than current only rich get to rule system. And besides, what is the worst that would happen? People vote against their own interests, get apathetic and do nothing?

    At worst, nothing at all gets done as no one is in charge of anything, which would still be better situation than current one as at least things wont get worse and if there is some ongoing crisis going on that has to be dealt with, if people still cant get the head out of their arses to deal with it, they have decided to let it happen. Just as we have right now decided to let climate change happen by just pretending to do meaningful things to stop it while in truth just focusing to protect the wealth of the rich.

    Every day we have less and less to lose. Any system seems better than what we currently have, though i wonder if soviet union got started with that sentiment. But something has to change because way things currently are are intolerable and by the time that transforms into physical need(like hunger) its too late already because everything is too broken already due to planet not supporting enough life to sustain meaningful civilization.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    All layers of decentralization add complexity and inefficiency. Anarchism relies on every human being fully educated on Anarchist theory (never going to happen).

    Anarchism is more of a "good samaritan" ideology which can work as a band-aid for people to help each other within a bad system, but it has never become a fully functioning system itself.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    we need something else than just democracy, or at least something that would also protect the integrity of democracy from corruption. If we had something like that and it would function reliably well people who want change would at least have something to rally behind instead of just wanting change into "something" that isnt ever really specified and thus wont ever gain any traction.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 52 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    Taking the definition at its etymological root, all anarchy means is "without rule".

    In my head-canon, that doesn't necessarily mean the lack of laws, state, institutions or governance; the implication is that there are no citizens or individuals with permanently elevated authority in the polity of government. Without rulers.

    Many, of course, disagree with this mostly on the basis of practicality, but I'd like to think it's another way to describe the concept of "No gods, no kings, no masters, no slaves."

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I guess you mean "without rule" as in "without people ruling" and not as "without norms", and it is indeed correct. There is a word for "without norms", which is anomie (at least in french).

    Also, i'd argue that states and governance inherently require permanently elevated authority, but if you meant more general meaning for those, like state as organization of masses of people and governance as common decisions for those masses, then i see your point.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    The "political class" of an anarchical state as I've described would be rotational.

    We in the United States have "Jury Duty", where the average citizen is required by law to be selected to be part of a "jury of peers" on legal cases if the defendant exercises their right to a trial by jury.

    Jurors can be struck down (relieved of their duty) for many reasons in the jury selection phase by attorneys, the judge, or submitting documentation on why they can't perform their duty.

    A corollary compulsory service or duty could be applied to the positions in the three branches of government we have in our current constitutional structure.

    We would effectively shift from being a constitutional federal republic (on paper; in practice, the current form of government is a plutocracy) to a constitutional aleatory republic. We would have representative governance, but they'd be subject to review, competency approval, and votes of confidence.

    One could also imagine ranked-choice voting and mandatory direct referendums regarding crucial policy decisions. Lobbyists must present their legal proposals to jurist-representatives and the general public, mitigating the efficacy of monetary influence in political speech and advertising.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    The "archy" is definitely related to the idea of a top-level leadership/executive group that is set apart from the rest. Anarchy removes that executive privilege and parasitism.

    For any society to function, there must be rules. Anarchy, in most forms, the community is the legislature and judiciary.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 45 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    There are many types of theories, but they rarely are literally "no organized public sector". Generally you can more think of it as your municipality being more or less completely sovereign and independent.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    The point of anarchism is the rejection of hierarchy. If enough people reject hierarchy, they would all be on board with not filling the power vacuum. That's why establishing anarchism is much more than getting rid of the current despot. It has to be get rid of all those with power over others, get rid of the concept of hierarchy, get rid of wealth accumulation as power concentration, get rid of anyone even trying to rule over others. They would have no support with anyone, because everyone knows power corrupts and we're not taking any chances. Nobody should desire to rule over others, if (1) nobody listens to you, (2) people will fight you, and (3) you, like everybody else, knows it's morally wrong

    I'm not saying all of this is practical, but that's the idea. Dismantling hierarchy is difficult, but still not sufficient to establish anarchist society. People would just build a new hierarchy if not convinced that hierarchies in themselves are the issue

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I wonder if hierarchical structures need reframing rather than removing. If changing our mental model could be the dismantling. I'm considering the definition and observation of emergent and beneficial hierarchies as discussed in "Thinking in Systems" by Donella Meadows-- the hierarchy structure is not inherently bad. What's bad is, when it comes to human social structure, the person coordinating a collection of people is often considered more important.

    If they were equally as replaceable as anyone in the collection (as it should be in a resilient system)-- perhaps by randomly reappointing that position, periodically-- then you could have a central-coordinator structure where benefitial, without the problems of that coordinator becoming drunk on power.

    Coincidentally, that book has a quote from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance that's very fitting for that last part you mentioned:

    if a factory is torn down but the rationality which produced it is left standing, then that rationality will simply produce another factory. If a revolution destroys a systematic government, but the systematic patterns of thought that produced that government are left intact, then those patterns will repeat themselves in the succeeding government. There’s so much talk about the system. And so little understanding.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    Thank you, nice quote.

    I do think the hierarchy is the problem, not only who is in charge or how they transfer power. There is always tension between "give the people in charge enough power to get things done" versus "now they have too much power and are corrupt", but by that point you cannot do anything about it. Democracy allows dictatorships to form in the name of government efficiency or the democratic will of the in-group majority.

    If you rotate leaders, you will sooner or later rotate in the dictator. Ruling over others should be unacceptable across the board. This is what anarchists fight for. You can fight for that even if the system you're living in is predominantly hierarchical. You don't need to dream about a revolution that never comes, it's all about changing people's mindset over time.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I think it's important to denote that some people categorize anarchism as a distant dream regime, for convenience of course.

    You can see anarchism in action in the punk movement or other community efforts. People building bridges on their own, living in a gridless community, sharing art using their own methods like cassette tapes. That's all anarchism.

    I'm not at the heart of anarchism. I'm not occupying an abandoned building to help the poor, for example. But I've read a couple of books on it.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Most things we do are anarching tbh, like just the simple act of meeting someone while walking on a narrow path means you have to directly communicate with them to get past each other, there's no higher authority involved that decides who goes to which side, or punishes you if you shove them out of the way.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    saving this. It's a good question. I've heard plenty of thoughts on how it should work on a small scale, but nothing about the larger scale.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Anarchy is a political structure where there’s basically no one in charge, right?

    That's a very literal interpretation of the word. As I understand it, anarchy is more like a class of ideas, rather than any concrete idea. Two people who both call themselves anarchists can have very, very different ideas about how society should run.

    So the answer is: it depends what kind of anarchy you're talking about. Your question is asking how a broad category would work but it's so broad that I don't think you can give a concrete answer. You'll need to be more specific.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, it's a goal, not a method. Even with a democracy/republic, there are so many different versions of it that exist. Is there a parliament? Is there a central leader? Who can vote? What happens if people can't agree on who should be in charge?

    Anarchism is a large set of ideals. There are a lot of people who have thought about how to make it work. Any issue people have with it, I promise you it's been considered. Everyone probably won't agree on what the solution should be (because that's always the case), but it has been thought about.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago* (6 children)

    Yes, but you're thinking pragmatically. Like how it would work in the real world.

    Anarchy is an ideal theory. It's not a practical or pragmatic one. It is argued for in comparison to other ideal theories.

    Pretty much every political theory breaks down when subjected to pragmatic real world problems.

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    This rings 100% true for me in regards to anarchism, communism, capitalism, socialism, feudalism... Pretty much any organisational structure that mankind has or will ever conceive.

    People are difficult, irrational and unpredictable. Put a whole bunch of people together on a plot of land, multiply that 1 billion times over and you get the unfathomable clusterfuck that is modern civilization. Not even being defeatist about it, just pointing out the factual reality that the perfect society does not and will never exist, far from it. I am aware I'm rambling on and pointing out the obvious here.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (3 children)

    well, at least until aliens invade.

    people tend to be remarkable cooperative when faced with an external existential threat. most countries cohere quite well when they are in a state of war.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    We got covid, and a lot of countries governments took advantage of it and spread misinformation and active vaccine denial. That's about as close to an alien invasion as we're gonna get, and we kinda failed disastrously at it.

    I used to think we'd come together over an external threat too. Now I'm not so sure. In fact, we might even get people denying that it's even happening.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    I think of anarchy like a guiding ideal: flatten hierarchies.

    You can't eliminate hierarchies. If you eliminate "official" hierarchies, you lack measures to prevent individuals from exerting their will over other individuals by force, which is just another hierarchy. As long as one person can swing a club at another, you have a naturally emergent hierarchy. Once you've created a group of people to stop people from swinging clubs at other people, you've invented a hierarchy.

    The anarchic ideal would be a system of organization to minimize the club-swinging. The proverbial sweet spot between preventing oppression without being oppressive. But it all ultimately comes down to club-swinging, you can't have a purely anarchic system without enabling private power. The best you can do is aim for the flattest possible hierarchy.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    When we say "in charge", it can mean two very different things : either in charge for anything (like a leader), either in charge of a specific thing (like a worker). Most anarchist theories aim at getting rid of the former, arguing that only the latter produces anything directly. So there would/could be people in charge, but for specific tasks : that could be handling a single repair, managing a field of crops, or organizing the shipment of food across a region (depending on the anarchist system, some may or may not make sense). Those people would be chosen by various systems, mostly direct "democracy", where assemblies of most people mandates them. The main difference between mandating and voting is that mandating is limited to a predefined task to accomplish. Also, in most anarchist systems, it has to be short and/or revocable, though that could be applied to voting too. A common point is also federation : most system advocate for little communities where you can establish rules as close as possible to what people desire. And then those communities can federate together for purposes that require or work best at large scale. This principle of little communities getting together for bigger problems is what has been established in anarchist Ukraine and autonomous Chiapas, though in two different ways.

    So, there is no necessary power vacuum, as in the lack of power does not imply chaos which would imply need for power.

    Now, of course there is the risk of power-hungry people aiming at recreating power : but I'd say if you managed to get rid of a state, you have the militant basis and strength required to get rid of mafias or other states, right? And if need be, anarchist armies existed with anarchist principles : elected officers, self-discipline, etc.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [+] [S] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    The idea is that once you're organized in more or less little entities, you may still have the need for things your entity cannot provide (that's one of the common first argument against anarchism) : tools, resources, craftsmanship, etc. To answer this, the most obvious solution is to federate with other close communities to share what's needed : you get together (or send delegates) and establish what the needs are and what can be provided. The same principle can be replicated to those federation to create wide networks.

    In Ukraine, which was very rural, they organized in little agricultural communes, as well as workers committees in factory and district assemblies for self governance. They then gathered in a common Congress to discuss matters for the whole region, to make propositions that were then discussed in the local councils. The anarchist army also played a big practical role, taking decisions for logistics in between Congresses, though they were not free to do what they wanted, and they tried to intervene in Congresses only as advisors. Their actual role is discussed, mainly by pro-state people claiming that they were the centralized entity that kept everything alive.

    In Chiapas, i don't know that much, but i believe they organize in villages, grouped in Communes, grouped in local governments (Caracoles if i'm not mistaken). Each level has some people elected to organize votes and debates with each assembly. The upper level need agreements of lower levels to apply things. Imagine if every town needed to vote for decisions applied to a region, and there was no mayors in the towns. Same thing here, there is an army alongside the movment, and it's not 100% clear if they, as they claim, have no say in the political decisions, or if they unofficially have some form of governance. Though i have not seen much claims that they do such things, and it's also one of the most devoted to peoole army that i know of.

    To add a bit more context, there is an army in both cases because of the very violent context : nationalist and then bolchevik armies in Ukraine, state violence and cartels in Chiapas. Both are relatively short (few years for ukraine, few decades for Chiapas). And also, zapatistas in Chiapas reject the notion and term of anarchism, though they are relatively close in pure theory.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [+] [S] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Well, those armies are not 100% pure anarchist systems, and my phrasing was misleading if you understood that. They were conventional armies, with some anarchist principles included. Most notables principles i knew of were self-discipline (soldiers were expected to watch their behaviours and their officers/comrades too) and election of officers (so they could be revoked and changed when soldiers lost trust).

    The efficiency of such armies is very discuted : ukrainian anarchist were quite effective against nationalist armies (a fight in which they were partly helped by bolcheviks armies), but were half-destroyed, half-integrated by the Red Army once Ukraine was freed. Other than that, the military activities of the EZLN show a relative efficiency, but they struggle to prevent cartel violence. And the efficiency of anarchist in Spanish resistance (1936) is quite disputed, some stalinists blaming them for the defeat in the civil war against fascism, while other blame the stalinists who ended up arresting/disbanding anarchists (anyway, the massive help from nazi Germany and fascist Italy and the lack of support from France/UK / weak support of USSR probably was one main reason).

    On a purely speculative side, I personnaly feel much safe about armies with some anarchist principles not seizing control of local communities, since the soldiers would be encouraged to disband/oppose in those cases. The anarchist army in Ukraine, the Makhnovchtchina, was known for executing its soldiers caught looting or iniating pogroms. So it shows that those armies had the same problems than the others (giving power to people), but they also had some drastic approach about it (you have to fight abuse of power strictly). Clearly a rather bad thing overall, but a bit better than other armies to my eyes, especially at the time.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    I love how there's a question asking how does a movement work, and most answers are from people outside of that movement, with only a superficial understanding of the theory behind it, confidently declaring it can't.

    To answer your question, anarchism doesn't magically pop into existence. The way it comes into existence, which is prefiguring the existing system into anarchism, requires that the people already created horizontal power structures which forbid this "power vacuum"

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [+] [S] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    the biggest core thing it requires is class solidarity. you have to understand that you, as a human, are ultimately no different from any other human, and so when you see someone in need of help, if you don't help them, that means other people will make the same decision you did. so you have to help.

    once you have that, you have to start organizing the people who help in some way. this is the root of mutual aid. the idea in a mutual aid society is that no one deserves to be poor and that anyone who asks for help is welcome to the help that is provided. when you have this people will naturally contribute in what they can and take from it what they need.

    the next thing to understand, coming from a position of class solidarity, is that poverty is enforced. when you start organizing a mutual aid society, society's enforcers of poverty, the military and the police, will come crashing down on you. so at least some people in your community will need to practice, plan, and organize community self defense

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Anarchism doesn't wait for a revolution to begin, unlike movements like Marxism-Leninism. Anarchist theory posits that we build the society we want to have in the here and now, by organizing around principles of direct action and mutual aid (see reply from D Quuil below for that). Structures with horizontal power structures like unions, cooperatives, communes and so on. These orgs work by improving the lives of their people immediately, not in some nebulous future, and therefore radicalize those people and attract more (this is why the state and capitalism intensely hates such orgs and work very very hard to suppress and crush them). If those orgs were to go unchecked, their proliferation would destabilize the capitalist system, as those orgs not only do not sustain it as they don't try to achieve "infinite growth", nor are led by the profit motive, and most importantly make their members want to resist the aims of the ruling classes (war, slavery, expoitation). This is the process of Prefiguration, for which you can find plenty of info online.

    Prefiguration as I mentioned, is inherently destabilizing to Capitalism. In fact, Capitalism itself arrived by prefiguration itself. The liberal classes under monarchy proliferated wage-slavery and exploitation so far and wide, that monarchies that lasted for tends of thousands of years until that point, collapsed in the span of mere hundreds! And surprise surprise, even if a few liberal democracies succumbed to monarchical counter-revolutions, the result was inevitable. Prefiguration works! You can't stop an idea whose time has come.

    Prefiguration works because it has already built the stable societal form which will replace the one that is collapsing. We don't have to start figuring things out "after the revolution". This is what I mean when I say that Anarchism doesn't just pop into existence. Those unions, cooperatives, mutual banks, communes and so on, will continue existing as they were and continue serving the needs of their people. They would just expand uninhibited until the rest of the society is run like them. This is also why we say we can't accurately predict what a future anarchist society would look like, anymore than a classical liberal under the monarchy of the Bourbons in the 1700s would be able to predict the Industrial Revolution, never mind the Information Age.

    So if those horizontal power structures exist and is how the society is run, where is then this "power vaccuum" to exploit? Any would-be capitalist or monarch would have to convince a society which explicitly rejected their ideas, to go backwards into those ideas. Would you willingly give back universal healthcare just to go back to a US-style healthcare system? No, nobody sane does that (even though the full might of the capitalist propaganda would really like you to). Neither would those people want to go back to a much worse system either. People who've tasted freedom would rather die than give it back.

    I hope this answers your question and if you want to learn more about anarchism, I can't suggest The Anarchist FAQ enough as a starting point. We even have a weekly book club about it in !anarchism@lemmy.dbzer0.com

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    I view anarchism as a philosophy and lifestyle more than a government or system. Whenever you thwart, resist or defy authority, you are engaging in anarchism. This can't be a system because it is a negative. It's a response to power. What you are asking for is egalitarianism, and there are many kinds of egalitarian governance structures that have varying degrees of success. Ostensibly, the US is egalitarian. In practice, not so much.

  • source
  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    To be honest, I've read a lot of fictional representations of 'anarchist' or 'libertarian' societies and they all fall apart if you look at them too closely.

    "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" is a science fiction classic and a fun read, but the 'free' society it envisions depends on everything being controlled by a single giant computer. It's set on Luna 200 years after the Moon became the prison of choice for all Earth nations. No prison gangs for 'reasons.'

  • source
  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    'Basically no one in charge' is not exactly correct. Heirarchies are allowed to exist, but ideally should be as brief and flat as possible.

    My best understanding of the end-goal is an intermeshing alliance of small democratic collectives working together to provide for one another. This type of system has existed previously, such as with the various tribes across the Americas which often traded and collaborated with one another. In contrast with previous times, there is vastly more understanding of how the world works now, and thus many more possible projects to strive towards.

    There is also no expectation of some supposed utopia from this, as i understand - conflicts are still expected to flair up every now and again. The main aim is for equality and the absence of a single constant power structure which oppresses and dictates the conditions of all, but instead that there is a democratic collaberation defining the conditions for folks involved.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Sounds a lot like a bunch of small states to me.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    States have governors, towns have mayors, and in anarchist theory none of those heirarchal positions would exist. Usually, heirarchies are formed in order to complete projects and those heirarchies are supposed to disappear once the project is complete. Can't really have a state without a legislative body dictating it.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    If you read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Robert Heinlein that may give you an idea.

    Otherwise, I attended Porcfest, the libertarian Porcupine Freedom Festival, back in 2016. Although it’s labeled libertarian, most folks I talked to discussed anarchy. One of the presentations I remember asserted that 8 is the optimal number of individuals in a decision making group. In his ideal anarchy individual people would assemble in groups of 8, who would then gather their groups or reps from their groups into a higher group of 8, and so on. Effectively higher level group decisions, if needed, would be made by a council that could be traced back to any individual.

    I don’t know that that’s a good plan, but it may get your mind going on how to think about the topic.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [+] [S] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin is another great book. The protagonist is from an anarchist moon orbiting a very capitalist planet. The author explains how an anarchic society works in that context.

    My argument (this was in a literature class) was that an anarchic society would be virtually impossible to maintain on Earth. Militaries are, by nature, very hierarchical. Anarchists don’t take orders. Unless the anarchists are protected by other countries for some reason, their society would be an easy, tempting target.

    That’s why I thought Le Guin’s moon solution was so elegantly simple. It doesn’t even have enough resources to make it worth a single trip, much less a coordinated takeover. Conditions are livable, but barely. Malnutrition and starvation are common. The moon just isn’t worth fighting over, so the government let the anarchists have it. Their demonstrations and protests were causing too much trouble anyway. Everybody was happy with this compromise.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    I have often wondered about having a voting system with a chit. Like a signed token or such and someone could assign theirs to another they trusted. It would take two tokens to get to level 2 and so on with people who get to the highest level could maybe be part of a tribunal and just below that a court of 9 and below that a congress of 81. things could be passed up and down the chain with people at levels can decide on elections to go over bills. like every level could get do you want an eletion to go over legislation this year and if over 50% of the level does not want to bother then it goes to the next level and so on till the lowest level that has enough interest to do it.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Anarchy means "without rule", so it describes a society where you were banned from 169

  • source
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    in parts of the world where there's pretty much no state reach, people tend to self-organize into neighborhoods and villages and shit. they share stuff and hang out and talk shit. the infrastructure tends to be minimal, with dirt roads and bamboo fences maintained resourcefully. a lot of stuff is just kind of jerry rigged together out of plants. people drink. mostly everyone farms.

    people say that anarchism isn't possible, but actually there are huge parts of the world that have been pretty close to emulating it for hundreds of years. many tribes probably fled into the hills to escape tyrannical states and the history was just lost after a few generations.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    How do you get hospitals and health care and parental leave?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    regarding the places that im describing and have personally seen, I would say that hospitals and healthcare are not really a thing. there's a lot of traditional medicine, herbs and things like that, effective at treating some things and not others. there's a lot of pseudoscience and superstition. there's also medicine that comes in from outside

    parental leave is easy though, given the collectivism that is usually going on. families are multigenerational and they stick together and people help eachother out

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    It could only truly happen if everyone was enlightened to the point where crime and prejudices cease to exist. Where corruption doesn't exist.

  • source
  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Even with the best forms of representative government and transparency and so on things are still shit.

    There will always be people who crave power and influence and money and are willing to do anything they can to acquire more. Only laws and regulations can mitigate that.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    That's kind of the point. Anarchy doesn't mean "no rules" or "no government". It's recognizing that people in power are either already corrupted or easily corruptable. It's about creating rules to curb this. There are a lot of ways to do it, but anarchy, in general, is just about removing hierarchies. Those are the thing that causes so many issues, because it let's people take advantage of it to benefit themselves.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    My prediction is that it works for 5 minutes... then a neighboring state is gonna invade and annex it

    You'd need some organizing to defend yourself... like a military... counter-espionage...

    Oopsie... you've accidentally invented the state...

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Most anarchist attempts had armies, built around anarchist principles : self-discipline, electing officers, more equal pays, etc. Some argue that this is state-like, i'd say it depends on what happens when the war is over. And i prefer an army where soldiers are inclined to criticize and change their officers, it's more likely to disband.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • Ah yes, their efficiency is very questionable. I still prefer an army less likely to murder civilians over a classic army, but I have to admit the latter are more likely to survive, precisely because of their violence. (SDF may be a more nuanced thing, i've read reports of bad civilians and prisoners treatments. But you're right to say "Anarchist" with quotes, it's effectively close without being strictly anarchism).

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Widespread nuke technology - the great equalizer.

    Joking of course, we’d annihilate ourselves immediately.

    I think humanity would need a very different set of priorities to make anarchy work. We’d need to value human life for starters. Maybe after experiencing collective ego death following a worldwide calamity or something.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›