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[–] 92 points 7 months ago (36 children)

How did I end up on a timeline where Microsoft is talking about rolling back AI in its OS and practically acknowledging vibe coding caused problems... and Linux developers are talking about ramping up its usage?

Obviously Microsoft is still worse here, but what are these trajectories?

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  • [–] 34 points 7 months ago* (24 children)

    What I think you are also seeing is AI sucking at some things and doing better than humans in others.

    AI is pretty great at adding unit tests to code, for example, where humans do a just-OK job. Or in writing code for a very direct well scoped small problem.

    AI is just OK at understanding product nuance and choices during larger implementations, or getting end to end coding right for any complex use cases.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (23 children)

    Just assuming this is all true (i.e. that AI can do good and bad code outputs), why would Linux development be able to succeed at something that Microsoft (which has an insider track with AI, far more money, and far more maturity) failed at?

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Could be a lot of reasons. A big one i see working at a large company myself is that AI needs to draw from a lot of data to do its work. A huge amount of contextual data too. A company like MSFT inevitably needs to provide AI with a walled-off curated set of data, and prevent any of it from leaking. Its AIs will not have the same amount of data an AI can draw from outside MSFT.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Leaking? Microsoft basically owns OpenAI. They pull the data in and don't need it to go out. The whole industry is fighting to close off competition, meaning they know they're on top.

    So do you have any reason to assume the open-source community's use of these (closed-source) other models is somehow bucking all real-world evidence to the contrary, or are we just hoping and praying?

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    If you take a step back, why would Linux development be able to succeed at all when Microsoft has far more money, more maturity, and more employees?

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago

    @ExperiencedWinter@lemmy.world, my question was simple: do you have a reason to make the assumption Linux developers will succeed.

    Instead, you've jumped to whataboutisms, misdirections (Linux exists, therefore...?), even trying to shift the burden of proof back onto the skeptic.

    If you can't back up your opinion with evidence, say so from the beginning.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (6 children)

    (Edit: Invalid comparison and misdirection.)

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Sure if you only focus on the desktop market I guess you could make that argument, but IDK why you would ignore servers and phones? There are plenty of examples of Linux kicking Microsoft's ass. You think Microsoft is happy they don't sell server licenses for every server on earth? What about android?

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    What about Android...?
    Sure, what about Google?

    Do you actually have a reason Linux will be able to pull off using AI when Microsoft cannot, or is your sole argument that Linux has done other things? Because that's not how proof works.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    My argument is they are different groups of people with completely different incentive structures, so of course they will be different. You're acting like Microsoft is failing because they use AI, not because they have management forcing the use of AI.

    I'm definitely not an "AI is going to write all the code" kind of person, but LLMs are definitely a useful tool for prototyping and other development processes. A project with a "No AI" rule is not inherently better than a project that uses AI as a tool.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    If your claim is baseless, don't fight to make it.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Ok, let's flip this around. You made the baseless claim that "Linux development can't succeed where Microsoft fails" that seems pretty baseless and historically incorrect to me. But if you just want to keep trying to "win" this interaction and don't want to have a conversation I guess there's nothing left to say

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    No, I asked why anyone would assume Linux developers would get anywhere with AI, looking for anybody with a legitimate reason and not baseless speculation.

    (Attempted burden of proof shift.)

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Microsoft has had a lot of resources for decades and sucked at the most basic stuff the whole time. Not taking a stance on AI usage here, just saying that the idea that a company having more money is rarely connected to the quality of the product they create and, in fact, chasing profits often leads to products being worse.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Because development direction in open source software is decided by engineers instead of corporate politicians

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (5 children)

    Do you have a reason to assume that the outsiders using proprietary insider software will do it better, or is that just hope and prayer?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Do you have a reason to assume that the outsiders using proprietary insider software will do it better

    What do you mean? That's the opposite of my point.

    I use Linux with ton of open source software since a decade, and it only got better, while Microsoft policies only got worse. It's a direct empiric evidence that it works.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    The AI models are the proprietary outsider software. Which is my point

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    And? LLM is nothing more than a tool. It has nothing to do with politics.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Motivation is powetful influence on devolopment. The linux kernel is largley driven by UX and desire for technical excellence (there are ultier motive from some major factions but overall this is true and actions are judged publically as such).

    Microsoft is, like most companies, driven by stockholder value creation.

    One produces an enviroment in which cautious adoption of new tech is constant, a slow trickle for use where it seems most applicable.

    The other demands that the perception of exclusive capital be created through vertical intergration with propritary IP and that the promise of cost reductions are underway. Aka Microslop trying to add a buzz word to every IP (percieved capital creation) and promising massive layoffs.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    The same reason any personal projects (and not using it to diminish what linux projects are but to say that the people working on them do it because they want the project to progress, not because of any financial incentive) can do better then commercial projects: where the passion is at.

    Someone just looking to get paid is more likely to say "ok this is good enough" and move on to the next thing. They are more likely to have managers breathing down their necks to get something done by some arbitrary deadline, too.

    It's why indie games have been able to compete with AAA games. The latter are following a formula to get paid, plus are more willing to make compromises in the name of either saving costs or increasing revenue. The former just want to make their fun idea reality.

    Also, MS has invested a ton of money into AI and seem to be getting desperate for a return on that. Which means there's a certain amount of denial about the quality. It's not just a tool to them, but a tool they desperately need to work and prove it's worth throwing a ton of money at.

    But for anyone that it's simply a tool for, it can be useful. They are great rubber duckies. Like my last interaction with one was a case where it did horribly and was completely wrong about what "we were discussing", but I still got to the right conclusion despite it because going through the conversation helped me think it through.

    And though it makes a lot of mistakes, its feedback isn't always wrong. The fact that it can rehash previous things from its history means its good at spotting new instances of problema that have already been solved. So accepting bug reports should be fine, just with the understanding that they each need to be looked at and some reports will need to be rejected because they are wrong.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Weird, everybody talking about using AI for videogames seems to praise its ability to speed up the process of developing things. Big studio after studio getting caught with placeholders and whatnot. Does that really make your point? Because it seems to do the opposite.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    My point isn't AI is good or bad, but that the difference is how much it gets leaned on.

    In this case, it's how AI is (assumed to be) used at MS vs how it was used in the OP.

    MS appears to be heavily leaning on generative AI producing code. In my own experience, that is pretty good these days at responding to a prompt with a series of actions that achieves the desire of the prompt, but is bad at creating an overall cohesion between prompts. It's like it's pretty good at making lego blocks but if you try putting it all together, it looks like you built something from 50 different sets, plus the connections between the blocks are flawed enough that it's liable to collapse the more you put it together.

    In the OP, AI is being used to submit bug reports. This one can be thought of as using an AI to write a book report instead of using an AI to write the book in the first place. If the AI writes a shitty report, it has zero effect on the book itself. But the AI might just include a list of all the typos in its report, which is useful for correcting the errors in the book.

    Also, game studios forgetting to replace placeholders is yet another issue more on the process itself, though it can also show a lack of attention to detail and maybe indicate that an AI was handling more of the process. A decent system would flag all assets for whether they are placeholders or final and then include a review of all flags before publishing to catch something like this.

    So this isn't a general defense of using AI, I'm just saying that it's possible to use it without everything it touches turning to slop, but that it often isn't used like that, resulting in slop.

    And it'll be easy to fall into the slop trap, what with how it's always making leaps and bounds inprovements that help with instances of it fucking up but don't resolve the fundamental issues that will probably mean LLMs will always produce some sort of slop (because everything boils down to some sort of word association, just with a massive set of conditional probabilities encoded into it that gives it the illusion of understanding).

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  • [+] -14 points 7 months ago* (10 children)

    The variable you're missing is time. There was a big shift in quality by Christmas, and the latest models are much better programmers than models from one year ago. The quality is improving so fast, that most people still think of AI as a "slop generator", when it can actually write good code and find real bugs and secutity issues now.

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The other missing variable is actually knowing how to use the tools. Vibe coding still produces slop. Good AI-generated code requires understanding what you're trying to achieve and giving the AI clear context on what design paradigms to follow, what libraries to use and so on. Basically, if you know how to write good code without AI, it can help you to do so faster. If you don't, it'll help you to write slop faster. Garbage in, garbage out.

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  • This is a good answer. AI tools won't make someone who has not yet developed programming skills into a good programmer. For someone who has a good grasp of implementation patterns and the toolkit for a given tech stack, they can speed things up by putting you into the role of a senior programmer reviewing code from multiple newbies.

    I'm finding that for it to work well, you have to split things up into very small pieces. You also have to really own your AI automation prompts and scripts. You can't just copy what some YouTuber did and expect it to work well in your environment.

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  • [–] 34 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    As someone who has to sift through other people's LLM code every day at my job I can confirm it has definitely not gotten better in the past three months

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    We require you to submit markdown plan before working on a feature, which must have full context, scope, implementation details. Also verification tests mardown file of happy path and critical failure modes that would affect customer, and how tests were performed. Must be checked in with the commit. More complex, large features require UML diagrams of architecture, sequences, etc. to be checked in too.

    If your plan or verification docs have wrong context, missing obvious implementation flaws, bad coupling, architecture, interfaces, boundary conditions, missing test cases, etc then PR rejected.

    Every developer's performance is judged as a systems engineer. Thoughtless features without systems docs and continued lack of improvement in your systems thinking gets you PIPed.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    That's the thing though. Even if the code is good, the plans are good, the outputs are good, etc, it still devolves into chaos after some time.

    If you use AI to generate a bunch of code you then don't internalize it as if you wrote it. You miss out on reuse patterns and implementation details which are harder to catch in review than they are in implementation. Additionally, you don't have anyone who knows the code like the back of their hand because (even if supervised) a person didn't write the code, they just looked over it for correctness, and maybe modified it a little bit.

    It's the same reason why sometimes handwritten notes can be better for learning than typed notes. Yeah one is faster, but the intentionality of slowing down and paying attention to little details goes a long way making code last longer.

    There's maybe something to be said about using LLMs as a sort of sanity check code reviewer to catch minor mistakes before passing it on to a real human for actual review, but I definitely see it as harmful for anything actually "generative"

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    That's a good point. We've been using the UML diagrams as a tool to catch behavioral red flags, but the reuse and implementation details of that are left undefined.

    Maybe the answer lies in also explicitly spending a few passes focusing on code health, explainability, maintainability (while keeping brain on). This is something I go through at end and then retry verification tests, but not something we explicitly require in our process at the moment.

    But in the end you have to know what good looks like and be able to call bullshit. Hmm I guess strong first principles are still the foundation of being good at something, no matter how the tools change. And practice, feedback, and constraint exposure are what turn that into actual effectiveness.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    I used to feel the same way, but I've come to realize it's slop that just looks better on the surface not slop that is actually better.

    At least it compiles most the time now. But it's never quite right... Everytime I have Claude write some section of code 6 more things spring up that need to be fixed in the new code. Never ending cycle. On the surface the code appears more readable but it's not

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  • [–] 111 points 7 months ago (22 children)

    Linux kernel czar?

    I’m curious about this but I refuse to click the link because that just sounds so fucking stupid.

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  • [–] 73 points 7 months ago (17 children)

    The headline is stupid but the article is interesting. Greg is saying that since last month for some unknown reason, AI bug reports have gotten good and useful, and something current Linux maintainers can handle. 

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  • [–] 43 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, but then article says that "good" ones still need reams of human work to make them acceptable.

    Article is propaganda.

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Greg says they're mostly small bug fixes and that the current maintainers can handle it, not sure where you're getting the "reams" bit from

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Says in the article that they arent good to go, needing code review, code cleanup, comment and documentation cleanup, etc

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago

    Yeah I mean, the goal is not to replace code maintainers, only to assist them in their work. Greg in general seems optimistic about it:

    "I did a really stupid prompt," he recounted. "I said, 'Give me this,' and it spit out 60: 'Here's 60 problems I found, and here's the fixes for them.' About one-third were wrong, but they still pointed out a relatively real problem, and two-thirds of the patches were right." Mind you, those working patches still needed human cleanup, better changelogs, and integration work, but they were far from useless. "The tools are good," he said. "We can't ignore this stuff. It's coming up, and it's getting better."

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    It’s not just bug reports; in the last month, AI driven development has actually gone from slop to reliably better than the average human.

    That’s not saying it’s writing better code, just that managing the development process and catching regular bugs is now better than when run by a junior analyst.

    Makes sense that a properly balanced model with randomization turned down should be able to recognize when something is being done outside the acceptable parameters.

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    It’s not just bug reports; in the last month, AI driven development has actually gone from slop to reliably better than the average human.

    Funny, I heard that same claim about 6 months ago.

    And I'm sure I'll hear it again in another 6 months or so.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    I'm a xennial developer. I"ve been coding for 30 years. AI now codes better (and a thousand timed faster) than most mid-level developers. The company I work for has not hired a single junior dev for months now. The new paradigm is a senior dev controlling a team of AI agents. It feels like it doesn't even make sense to think of training juniors, because at this rate even seniors will be obsolete in a year or two.

    AI in the software dev world is not hype.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I have a few questions.

    Who ultimately owns/controls this particular AI? A single company? Is this a local agent they're running themselves or are they renting?

    Who's supposed to replace the senior running all the AI?

    Besides the senior, who can discern error from function?

    Are they fabricating their own chips?

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Every single comment made by this person in the past three months is pro-AI. Every. Single. One.

    Do you work for Anthropic? Perhaps, you are an LLM?

    AI now codes better (and a thousand timed faster) than most mid-level developers.

    You, if you are indeed a real person, might be overestimating your proficiency, it happens.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Huh, and here I am thinking I’m dumb because it’s such a struggle getting the ai to produce usable code.

    I mean. It clearly helps in some well defined areas, but actual code? like for a feature? Of a product you expect people to pay for? And you have to maintain?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Makes sense that a properly balanced model with randomization turned down should be able to recognize when something is being done outside the acceptable parameters.

    I don't know how you gathered such a sense when that not being true has been the main laughing point for AI since its inception. Meta AI security and safety researcher Summer Yue's "Nothing humbles you like telling your OpenClaw 'confirm before acting' and watching it speedrun deleting your inbox" was just last month btw.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago

    It's an affectation of The Register they like reporting real news with a sometimes quirky voice. It's also British so some of the language and humour doesn't quite work as well in other parts of the world.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    We Brits use Czar as a colloquialism for "person in charge of...".

    So the head of the water regulator might be referred to as the water Czar (and they deserve a similar fate).

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago

    Video killed the radio czar?

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago (32 children)

    Either a lot more tools got a lot better,

    That's what it was. Even the free, open source models are vastly superior to the best of the best from just a year ago.

    People got into their heads that AI is shit when it was shit and decided at that moment that it was going to be stuck in that state forever. They forget that AI is just software and software usually gets better over time. Especially open source software which is what all the big AI vendors are building their tools on top of.

    We're still in the infancy of generative AI.

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I tried one for the first time yesterday. It was mediocre at best. Certainly not production code. It would take just as much effort to refine it as it would to just write it in the first place.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    To be fair: take this methodology that was developed years ago but apply these specific cutting edge methodologies to improve it gives you much better code in a day or two than any scientific code I've ever seen published by affirmed researchers in the field. You get the code, documentation and tests. Is the code easy to maintain? Most certainly not. Is code published by scientists maintainable? You're lucky if it even runs. You take that and you have a partially working solution, you spend a week rewriting it and you have a working better methodology that would likely have taken you a year to develop.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (26 children)

    If you read AI critics, you will see people presenting solid financial evidence of the failure of AI companies to do what they promised. Remember Sam Altman promised AGI in 2025? I certainly do, and now so do you.

    Do you have any concrete evidence that this financial flop will turn around before it runs out of money?

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago

    Whether AI can reliably detect issues and generate working code is a whole different thing from CEO's delusions and hyperbole to game the market. Their financial success is also irrelevant, in fact it's better if the sub/token model fails and we are left with locally ran models.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (24 children)

    Assume all the big AI firms die: Anthropic, OpenAI, Microsoft, Google, and Meta. Poof! They're gone!

    Here would be my reaction: "So anyway... have you tried GLM-7? It's amazing! Also, there's a new workflow in ComfyUI I've been using that works great to generate..."

    Generative AI is here to stay. You don't need a trillion dollars worth of data centers for progress to continue. That's just billionaires living in an AGI fantasy land.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You don't need a trillion dollars worth of data centers for progress to continue

    Bullshit

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    I just added up how much it would cost (in theory—assuming everything is in-stock and ready to ship) to build out a data center capable of training something like qwen3.5:122b from scratch in a few months: $66M. That's how much it would cost for 128 Nvidia B200 nodes (they have 8 GPUs each), infiniband networking, all-flash storage (SSDs), and 20 racks (the hardware).

    If OpenAI went bankrupt, that would result in a glut of such hardware which would flood the market, so the cost would probably drop by 40-60%.

    Right now, hardware like that is all being bought up and monopolized by Big AI. This has resulted in prices going up for all these things. In a normal market, it would not cost this much! Furthermore, the reason why Big AI is spending sooooo much fucking money on data centers is because they're imagining demand. It's not for training. Not anymore. They're assuming they're going to reach AGI any day now and when they do, they'll need all that hardware to be the world's "virtual employee" provider.

    BTW: Anthropic has a different problem than the others with AGI dreams... Claude (for coding) is in such high demand that their biggest cost is inference. They can't build out hardware fast enough to meet the demand (inference, specifically). For every dollar they make, they're spending a dollar to build out infrastructure. Presumably—some day—they'll actually be able to meet demand with what they've got and on that day they'll basically be printing money. Assuming they can outrun their debts, of course.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (21 children)

    I'm sick and tired of AI fans making statements like

    Generative AI is here to stay

    without evidence.

    Citation needed.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    Um... Where would it go? I've got about 30 models on my machine right now and I download new ones to try out all the time.

    Are you suggesting that they'd all just magically disappear one day‽

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    Where do you think the "new ones" are coming from?

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    Same places as usual: Academia and open source foundations.

    That's where 99% of all advancements in AI come from. You don't actually think Big AI is paying as many people to do computer science and mathematics research as all the universities in the world (with computer science programs)?

    It's the same shit as always: Big companies commercialize advancements and discoveries made by scientist and researchers from academia (mostly) and give almost nothing back.

    Big AI has partnerships with tons of schools and if it weren't for that, they wouldn't be advancing the technology as fast as they are. In fact, the only reason why many of these discoveries are made public at all is because of the agreements with the schools that require the discoveries/papers be published (so their school, professors, researchers, and students can get credit).

    Like I was saying before: You don't need a trillion dollars in data centers to do this stuff. Almost all the GPUs and special chips being used (and preordered, sigh) by Big AI are being used to serve their customers (at great expense). Not for training.

    Training used to be expensive but so many advancements have been made this is no longer the case. Instead, most of the resources being used in "AI data centers" (and research) is all about making inference more efficient. That's the step that comes after you give an AI a prompt.

    Training a super modern AI model can be done with a university's data center or a few hundred thousand to a few million dollars of rented GPUs/compute. It doesn't even take that long!

    Generative AI improves at a ridiculously fast rate. In nearly all the ways you could think of: Training, inference (e.g. figuring out user intent), knowledge, understanding, and weirder, fluffier stuff like "creativity" (the benchmarks of which are dubious, BTW).

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago* (11 children)

    Before we spin into a tangent about theory and "what ifs" etc, care to link me to all these great models from academics and open-source institutions?

    Because right now, the only companies I see making advancements in "AI" are burning through obscene amounts of cash, with no end in sight.

    And there is no evidence the cost of inference is going down, and even Anthropic admits training will continue burning resources.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    You seem to be unaware that it only takes about four NVIDIA HGX H100 nodes (32 GPUs) to train something like qwen3.5:122b. That model is about as good as ChatGPT was six months to a year ago (for the usual use cases). That would take a long ass time though (over a year) so you'd want probably 50-100 HGX H100s (or lots of the newer, cheaper ARM-based hardware devices).

    The weights for qwen3.5:122b are open. That means that if you've got the hardware (loads of universities and non-profits have waaaay TF more than 4 HGX H100 nodes) you can continue modern AI development. Everything you need is right there on Huggingface! Deepseek's stuff is also open I think but I forget. Aside: In my head, I hold the qwen models as "the gold standard" based on many articles I've read about them but AI moves so fast, there might be better stuff out on any given day! I haven't read AI news in like a week so I could be all wrong and qwen3.5 is now sooo obsolete, hehe (that's how it feels to follow AI news, anyway 🤣).

    Even more interesting: qwen3.5:122b isn't just an LLM. It does visual reasoning (e.g. give it a picture of a plant and ask it to identify it, count the number of screws in an image, estimate distances, etc) as well as the usual LLM stuff. You can read all about it here:

    https://ollama.com/library/qwen3.5:122b

    ...and if you install ollama and spend $20 on ollama.com's cloud service you can actually try it out without having to own enough GPUs to cover the 245+GB requirement. I highly recommend that service! You can try out all the latest & greatest models on your local PC (or phone!) for any purpose you want for a $20. Whenever a new model is out they usually have it up on their servers within a day or two and it's fast, too.

    FYI: I've used ollama cloud to evaluate models for coding (web dev with Python back end) and qwen3.5:122b is fantastic. It's not as good as Claude Opus 4.6 but it's close (and cheap) enough that you can just make up for the mistakes with extra instances that check the output with a critical eye (the latest trick in AI-based coding to get good output).

    For reference, the University of Texas at Austin has data centers with 4,000 NVIDIA Blackwell (B200/GB200) GPUs, Harvard has 1,144 GPUs, and the University of Cambridge & Bristol (in the UK) has some monstrous mix of Intel and AMD GPUs. All three are perfectly capable of training new models from scratch or using continuing development on existing open-weight models like Deepseek and Qwen.

    Generative AI isn't going anywhere. Furthermore, advancements in that space happen so fast that it's likely that in a few years we won't need so many GPUs/VRAM to train models. Especially if ternary models (and similar, like Google's TurboQuant tech) take off.

    I know this is a long comment but I want to point something else out: If OpenAI and Anthropic go bust, that would flood the market with cheap GPUs. It would be a total price collapse and you can bet your ass that clever universities and service providers (like Amazon compute, but 3rd party) would snap those up and bring down prices across the board.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    I'm sorry if I was unclear the first two times I asked, but when I said:

    care to link me to all these great models from academics and open-source institutions?

    I was interested in the models you're currently using, not the ones you're speculating about. Hopefully it goes without saying that "open" weights are precompiled closed-source blobs, and "Open"AI is anything but, etc.

    I'm aware new models are trained at the speed of light and hardware is going obsolete faster than it can be put on racks, which is already a problem, so I would love to believe your theory about inexpensive AI GPUs but those very same companies are already going into debt without selling their current stock.

    Edit: we have a reason to not assume GPUs will suddenly become cheap.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I literally said I'm using qwen3.5:122b for coding. I also use GLM-5 but it's slightly slower so I generally stick with qwen.

    It's right there, in ollama's library: https://ollama.com/library/qwen3.5:122b

    The weights and everything else for it are on Huggingface: https://huggingface.co/Qwen/Qwen3.5-122B-A10B

    This is not speculation. That's what I'm actually using nearly every day. It's not as good as Claude Code with Opus 4.6 but it's about 90% of the way there (if you use it right). When GLM-5 came out that's when I cancelled my Claude subscription and just stuck with Ollama Cloud.

    I can use gpt-oss:20b on my GPU (4060 Ti 16GB)—and it works well—but for $20/month, the ability to use qwen3.5 and GLM-5 are better options.

    I still use my GPU for (serious) image generation though. Using ChatGPT (DALL-E) or Gemini (Nano Banana) are OK for one-offs but they're slow AF compared to FLUX 2 and qwen's image models running locally. I can give it a prompt and generate 32 images in no time, pick the best one, then iterate from there (using some sophisticated ComfyUI setups). The end result is a superior image than what you'd get from Big AI.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Both of those models appear proprietary closed-source freeware. To be open source, they need to provide the source for the blobs.

    I don't blame you if the AI industry deceived you, because it's gotten to the point where people that review this stuff need to refer to "actual open source" to differentiate.

    So... Do you actually use open-source models?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    @ikidd@lemmy.world @ingeanus@ttrpg.network do you two have a source for these supposed great models?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    I personally love glm-5 and qwen3.5, specifically: https://ollama.com/library/qwen3.5:122b

    I've used them both for coding and they work really well (way better than you'd think). They're also perfectly capable of the usual LLM chat stuff (e.g. check my grammar) but all the models (even older, smaller ones) are capable of that stuff these days.

    For a treat: Have someone show you using some of these models to search the web! It's amazing. You don't see ads, you don't have to comb through 12 pages of search results, and they read the pages that moment (not cached) to give you summaries of the content. So when you click the link to go to the content you know it's the thing you were looking for. They're not using a local index of the Internet, they're searching on your behalf using whatever search engines you configured. It's waaaaay better than ChatGPT (which uses Bing behind the scenes whether you like it or not) or Gemini (which uses Google, obviously). The (self-hosted) LLM will literally be running curl for you on Google, DuckDuckGo, Bing, or whatever TF else you want (simultaneously) then reading each of the search results and using your prompt to figure out what the most relevant results are. It's sooooo nice!

    FYI: Ollama.com's library page is actually a great resource for finding info on all the models that can be self-hosted: https://ollama.com/library

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    What inclined you to @ me into this? As far as I can see, I haven't even replied in this thread, and you just seem like you're on the warpath with anyone that wants to defend using LLMs. If Greg KH thinks it's coming into it's own, you might want to heed him.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Greg who? Does he have a basis for his beliefs?

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Oh wow, comparing a thing to a completely different thing without demonstrating the comparison is valid.

    Exactly the non-evidence I expected.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Sorry, it’s what you deserve. You just really, really want to hate AI, and when people try to tell you that it has good points, you don’t want to hear it. Time will tell, I suppose.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Traditional software was developed by humans as an artifact that, and to the degree that humans improved the software for some task, got better, but it was not guaranteed. Windows 11 is proof of that, and there are a laundry list of regressions and bugs introduced into software developed by humans. I acknowledge you say usually and especially for open source — I lukewarm agree with that statement but disagree that large LLMs or other generative models will follow this trend, and merely want to point out that software usually introduces bugs as it’s developed, which are hopefully fixed by people who can reason over the code.

    Which brings us to AI models, and really they should just be called transformer models; they are statistical tensor product machines. They are not software in a traditional sense. They are trained to match their training input in a statistical sense. If the input data is corrupted, the model will actually get worse over time, not better. If the data is biased, it will get worse over time, not better. With the amount of slop generated on the web, it is extraordinarily hard to denoise and decide what’s good data and what’s bad data that shouldn’t be used for training. Which means the scaling we’ve seen with increased data will not necessarily hold. And there’s not a clear indication that scaling the model size, which is largely already impractical, is having some synergistic or emergent effect as hoped and hyped.

    Also, we’re really not in the infancy of AI. Maybe the infancy of widespread hype for it, but the idea of using tensor products for statistical learning algorithms goes back at least as far as Smolensky, maybe before, and that was what, 1990?

    We are in the infancy of I’d say quantum style compute, so we really don’t have much to draw on beyond theoretical models.

    Generative LLM models have largely plateaued in my opinion.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    We're in the infancy of AI in the sense that widespread use, testing and properly-funded development of these technologies only began a few years ago when massively parallelized processing became affordable enough, even though the concepts are older. You could say we're in the infancy of practical AI, not theoretical.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    Sounds like time for a new czar

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    The Linux foundation, home to some of the best software engineers, and known not to pick up any trend just because it's new - let's say they still work with patches sent in a mailing list - reckon that a new tool is being very useful to them to the point that they're integrating it into their workflow.

    People still criticise them because they should know better such tool is useless.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    These are some of the most pragmatic engineers out there. They don't pick up any new tool just because it's trendy. I'm old enough to have watched Torvalds create Git virtually overnight because the kernel devs hated Bitbucket.

    If they can work with LLMs, they must have found some use case for it.

    From my limited experience, it can be a good help to point out flaws in my code, not so much at generating what I want it to do.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Doing to be funny when I get to tell Linux people if they don't want Ai code switch to windows lol

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