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[–] 85 points 7 months ago (25 children)

The longer I work in tech, the more I want to move to a farm 50km from neighbours with just me, my partner, a couple dogs, chickens, and cows.

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  • [–] 50 points 7 months ago* (7 children)

    The longer I work in tech exist, the more I want to move to a farm 50km from neighbours with just me, my partner, a couple dogs, chickens, and cows.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    It's a common escapist fantasy but are you equipped to handle the needs of chickens and cows?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    It's a common criticism but do you think a reasonably smart person couldn't struggle through it? I reckon they'd be especially likely to succeed if they were equipped with a good book and some humility. Humility can't be given but pieces of advice can. Do you have any good ones?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    Well there's that word, "struggle", do you think the average city dweller raised on video games and car trips to Walmart really understands where food comes from, or how?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I think if you gave them a year or two of runway with wikipedia and some YouTube tutorials they could figure it out. It's not black magic

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    And in this scenario, they still have access to normal levels of food and energy during that year?

    Then, what, pray tell, is their impetus?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    You don't have to walk out of your job immediately and never come back to fulfill the escapist fantasy. Full homesteading and flying a plane are both pretty lofty goals but people don't hop in an aircraft without hours of practice and planning.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    "The more I work in tech, the more I wish I was independently wealthy."

    I love how people use the word "just" when making statements about the simple life.

    Simple ain't always cheap....

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago* (6 children)

    Simple ain't easy either. Fix yer plumbing, fix yer roof, fix yer fence, feed yer chickens (yes, every day!), clean their poop, etc. etc. etc.

    Homesteading is a lot of work, and you can't just go away for a weekend to visit a friend or explore a new city. It needs constant attention, and the more "independent/self-reliant/off-the-grid" you want to be, the more you need to do everything yourself.

    And even then you need to buy supplies and materials. You're not going to grow a year's-worth of food in your backyard vegetable patch, and you're not gonna make your own lumber, pvc, copper wire, etc.

    There's a lot you can do to achieve a greater degree of independence, but ultimately it's still dependencies all the way down.

    Even the Buddha recognized the interconnectedness of everything in the world; he wasn't just some detached stoic with a community of self-sustaining monks. They depended on the generosity of their surrounding communities, and to this day Buddhist monks still do.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (5 children)

    A lot depends on how many luxuries you can go without. Tiny house means less work; no modern plumbing means no maintenence; ditch big hvac systems and only worry about heating/cooling a room or two; no indoor wiring needed if you only have a couple solar lamps. Yeah you'll still have some reliance on getting stuff you can't fabricate but it will be much less stuff

    Livestock complicates things a bunch but it can be easier if you're OK living off a simpler vegetarian diet and putting in the upfront legwork for more durable/low maintenance food sources (native food forest).

    Your life might be dark and shitty but it will definitely be simpler and easier. But if you want to optimize for a higher QoL you'll probably have to join a cultist farm commune.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Not every commune is a cult, and we should really break that stigma...

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    Not necessarily, but one focused on an extreme primitivist lifestyle probably are. People generally don't coordinate maximum isolation from society without some ulterior motives.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    And why not? Society has lots of problems. If people want to live their lives in some alternative way, why shouldn't they be able to? Why shouldn't those people be able to gather in one place and form communities, as long as those communities don't become abusive?

    Abusive power dynamics exist in society writ large. Why do we single out communes and say they're bad, while we ignore how coercive and manipulative the average corporation is?

    This whole idea that "communes are bad because they remove people from society" is based on the capitalist lie that people need to work and produce value for the owner-caste, and that any other lifestyle is a wasted life.

    Why can't people who want to be isolated from society be isolated from society?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The problem isn't living lives in an alternative way, it's that a full rejection of society requires an insular and opaque lifestyle. You don't get qualified inspectors telling you your house is a fire hazard, you don't have access to medical professionals or diagnostic equipment, any education/information/opinions become warped/inbred/outdated over time, lack of suitable elder care or child care (depending on demographics), etc...

    "As long as they don't become abusive" is doing a ton of heavy lifting in your argument. Who's getting let in to check for abuse? What recourse do people have to get help when they may not have transportation or phones? Are they really isolated from society if they must submit to our judgement? What measures could exist to correct abusive dynamics without external coercion?

    A corporation can be bad (and they might not be punished) but at least that's in the light of day. Regardless of how shitty things seem, I'd take a public discourse about our social ills over hushed whispers between abused wives and children. We can openly debate about the pros and cons of leaving society but such seditious talk could cost you your livelihood if the leaders of a commune think you're not all in.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Who's getting let in to check for abuse? What recourse do people have to get help when they may not have transportation or phones?

    I'd say the same argument applies anywhere else: companies, boarding schools, retirement homes, psychiatric facilities, nuclear families, churches, the list goes on.

    Most inspection agencies are performative at best. They'll check for a few key indicators which get swept under the rug when the people know the inspectors are coming. If the inspector is buddies with the administrators or whoever, they're even more lax in their inspections. Whistleblowers get punished, and our legal system quite frequently fails to protect them. And now, even the agencies that are supposed to ensure compliance are being systematically defunded and dismantled, and the remnants are being weaponized for political purposes.

    People put a lot of faith in systems that don't deserve it, when beneath it all those systems are run by fallible humans and are just as prone to abuse as anything else. It just happens to be the dominant system and it jealously protects its own monopoly.

    Communes don't have to be 100% isolated and cut off from society, the fact that most of them are is a result of the stigma. It leaves them with no other way to be, no other option but to either seclude themselves or return to society and conform.

    If society itself were more tolerant of alternative lifestyles, a commune could simply provide layers of abstraction. It could still have inspectors and mediators and contractors and medical professionals from the outside world come visit periodically, but it could handle the internal matters like administration, bookkeeping, logistics, warehouse operations, food prep, cleaning, gardening, etc., and all other internal matters as a team effort where everyone has a role and contributes, instead of the norm in our society which is a bunch of isolated individuals and small families who have to do everything for themselves.

    And if they weren't viewed as these inherently scary and abusive things, you wouldn't have exclusively vulnerable people getting preyed on and recruited to them. Lots of people we consider "normal" would choose to join them, for a variety of reasons: pooling resources for shared expenses = lower cost of living; sharing chores = lower burden of upkeep and more free time. Especially now with the cost of living rising, the job market evaporating, and life just overall becoming more complicated, I feel like that would be an attractive option for a lot of people.

    And if they were more common, there would be a diversity of philosophical persuasions / guiding values, so anyone would theoretically be able to find one that aligns with their worldview. So as long as you do your research and visit a couple times to get a feel for the particular community before you join, you wouldn't have to worry about things like coercive enforcement of ideology.

    My point is that there are ways of doing it healthily, but the very real stigma associated with it prevents any healthy communes from gaining any traction. That's why we only hear about abusive ones. It's confirmation bias mixed with self-fulfilling prophecy.

    That's why I say we should break the stigma. It doesn't mean we should allow abusive cults. But by providing healthier alternatives, we'll actually diminish the appeal those abusive cults have for some people.

    It's like drugs. Decriminalization is one of the most effective ways to reduce demand for the black market. Likewise, destigmatizing communes will reduce demand for abusive cults.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Around COVID times, I had a coworker who bought a 100+ year old farmhouse out in Minnesota and we could see over time how he was fixing it up. Then he quit and started his homestead. Enviable man.

    but yeah, I've heard of a lot of people in tech quitting at 20 years, which seems high? but at around 13+ years, I get it. I just don't really know what I'd go to

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    [–] 141 points 7 months ago (21 children)

    It’s probably better to read the philosophers Uncle Ted was pulling from (and ultimately failed to understand).

    Ellul especially.

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  • [–] 35 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    Might be a matter of taste, but ISAIF is worth a read on the basis of its wild mix of sociological brilliance and unhingedness IMO. That’s not to say I endorse blowing people up in the slightest, but the work stands taller than the sum of its influences.

    E.g. I think he synthesized and added to quite a few different authors in presenting his concept of oversocialization. (Please do correct me if I’m off-base — I love philosophy but it’s not my main wheelhouse).

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 38 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    Industrialized Society and Its Future (name of the manifesto)

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  • [+] -40 points 7 months ago* (10 children)

    You enjoy doing extra work? Why not explain the gibberish acronym in the first comment?

    Oh! I'm soooo sorry! I thought everyone wrote their dissertation on Ted "My First Love" Kaczynski?

    Listen to yourself, you sound ridiculous.

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  • [–] 35 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    It’s just off-the-cuff writing without copyediting. Tad sloppy, but weird hate, homie.

    E: To squarely address my view of Teddy K, he’s in the same bucket as Karl Marx, Otto Von Bismarck, Rasputin, etc. Not someone whose core values I share, or think is a good person — but a historically interesting character who has cultural symbolic importance for the role they played in their respective time and place.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    As a person of average intelligence, I knew exactly what the acronym was. Not sure the issue here.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Very true, knowing random trivia is a sign of intelligence and definitely not a side product of you being terminally online.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    It takes 2 seconds to put ISAIF in your search engine.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Or, or or or, the OP could explain what it means in their comment. That would be crazy though! You should always assume everyone knows just as much as you do on your favorite mass murderer. Including as much jargon as you can when discussing your hobby is best practice, after all.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Ted misses a lot in Jacques Ellul’s The Technological Society, which is where I’d start off f your looking for philosophers critical of modern technology.

    If you’re curious on that particular subject, I’d also recommend Lewis Mumford’s Myth of the Machine or The City in History.

    Or, for something that’s less of a tome (both Ellul and Mumford can be overly wordy), Ivan Illich’s Tools for Conviviality is incredibly critical of the modern world, but also offers hope that isn’t based on mailing bombs to universities.

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  • [+] 54 points 7 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago* (5 children)
  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 105 points 7 months ago (19 children)

    Has good points... decides the best way to bring those points to the world is planting bombs.

    Adam Lanza had some good points about autism (remember when he called into that radio show?). His subsequent expression of his feelings about the world was less than optimal. There's no need to give the cunt kudos for his insights.

    This is some "say what you like about Hitler, but at least he made the trains run on time!" level of vacuous.

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I'm not saying that bombs were a good or acceptable idea, but I am saying that if it weren't for the bombs, none of us would have read that manifesto to consider this post.

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Thanos has good points. How he dealt with the problem is the issue.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Should have doubled the resources!

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I mean, you're not entirely wrong, but TK killed 3 and injured less than 30. Harry Truman killed vastly more people than TK and he's essentially lauded, as most ex presidents are.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)

    And say what you want about Hitler, he did kill Hitler

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Only positive thing he ever contributed to the world.

    Its a shame more of the people today that emulate him don't commit fully and do the same thing, and just spare us all the bullshit suffering, before it inevitably finds itself there anyway, which it will...it always does eventually. Their way is not sustainable.

    They're like the randoms I get playing chess online that refuse to lay down their fucking King when a mate is inevitable. They'll even say as much in the game chat. Like for fucks sake, can we not?

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    [–] 27 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Did you know that Northrup Grumman developed the standard USPS mail truck? They also developed the B2 stealth bomber. Northrup never intended for their truck to also be a stealth bomber, but Ted said "I'm about to do what's called a 'pro gamer' move."

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I agree with this guy every time I run into bad UI design.

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago

    Technology is cool

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago

    ITT people who apparently don't understand what a shit post is.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago

    Unabomer is how the news wrote it.

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  • [–] 39 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    A broken clock is right twice a day

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