I call bullshit on the latter part of that statement. If it's wrong it's wrong no matter who does it.
post
You can hate both sides. The Iranian regime has killed substantially more Iranians (this year) than the USA has. Doesn't make the USA a good country, both countries are shit. The main difference is that the USA is a developing theocracy whereas Iran is an established one.
The main difference is that the USA is a developing theocracy whereas Iran is an established one.
I'd say the main difference is thay the USA has nuclear weapons and has killed dozens of millions of innocents, while Iran has only tried both and so far failed.
The people killed in Iran were killed by US and shitrael funded and armed traitors shooting at civilians not by 'the regeeeeem'.
And it's unfortunately a few 1000's, not the 30-40ooo's the propaganda wants to make it as justification for their warcrimes.
And to even think the USSA killed less people is disgusting.
I've met a lot of Iranians. None of them want to live in a theocracy. And none of them doubt for a minute that they've been executing protesters. Iranians themselves tend to be pretty secular people living under a bullshit theocracy.
Again, I have absolutely no love for the USA or Israel and absolutely despise trump. But don't go round claiming Iran is anything other than an oppressive dictatorship.
You can meet a lot of 'Cubans' too in Florida or wherever that don't like the Cuban government.
Gusano opinions don't count.
Exactly like those anecdotal 'Iranians' you met.
All those definitely not-astroturfed protests in the USSA waving shitraeli flags.
If you would believe the western mouthpieces everyone in Iran is against their government and wants the shah back.
If that were the case then why didn't a revolution happen since they're being bombed and the fuhrer and shitrael have tried their best infiltrating?
They had a revolution once, and it was exactly against this torturing dictator puppet regime installed by the US.
I and you may not like the theocracy, don't use it as an excuse for their regime change operations.
It's their choice to decide on their country and they vastly support it.
You're using the same BS hasbarats use to whitewash the genocide in Palestine.
But look what they do to the gays, we need to bomb them into freedom!
You do you 👍
A well argued reply as expected.
I don't see much point in arguing with someone like you. A member of the irgc could literally tell you to your face "I have personally killed 10 children" and you would still blame America, because your entire political identity is based on America bad, Israel bad. You're immune to reason so I'd be wasting my time.
A member of the irgc could literally tell you to your face “I have personally killed 10 children
They couldn't tell me because they don't do that. That's factually americans and shitraelis.
My entire political identity is factually based on America bad, Israel bad.
You can't argue with me because you can't win on facts.
You don't offer reason or facts only propaganda in return.
Now run, get back in your Tel Aviv basement
Power is murderous, the greater the power the more murderous.
As the US declines other already-murderous powers will prove themselves every bit as vile as western hegemony.
The problem is in the nature of power structures, not who has fought their way to the top at the moment.
Agreed, but are you suggesting we sit back and enjoy? The only way to get over this stage is to call it out. Understand what is happening, create mechanisms that dissuade murderous psychopaths from positions of power.
For example, take money out of politics. As a politician you are not entitled to personal wealth. You have to give everything you have away and you live on minimum wage. End political donations etc etc.
If I had to guess on allies I would point to the coalition of Western European countries who routinely join US imperialist wars like the "war on terror" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Id say the military industrial complex is a murderous power structure. If you want specifics look at the Pentagon, CIA, and various "defense" contractors such as Raytheon, Palantir, and so on.
IMO the path to stop it is something like anarcho- communism which you can start doing in your own neighborhood by forming collectives.
Don't engage the trolls
Does anyone have sources for this?
I'm not an expert, and a quick look on Wikipedia shows that comparing just 2 recent big wars, the USA coalition's invasion of Iraq (2003-2011) killed approximately 151k to 655k[i] Iraqis, while the major Russian invasion or Ukraine (2022-ongoing) killed about 200k[u] Ukrainians.
Anyone have better numbers, and other non-defensive invasions?
[i] 151000 (2003-03/2006-06) New England Journal of Medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Family_Health_Survey
460000 (2003-03/2011-06) PLOS Medicine Survey https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3797136/
654965 excess (2003-03/2006-07) Lancet survey, 186318 by coalition, 144246 by others, and 276472 by unknown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties
[u] BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce8n4l8elpgo This is just Ukrainians - if you include the Russian casualties then it may be more than 3 times that, and since some Russian soldiers may have been forced into the war (unlike in the Iraq war on the Western side), Russia should be held responsible for them getting killed also.
This.
However, it doesn't excuse the US from their military crimes.
In Russia, we also gladly use "what about": yeah, we might not be perfect, but just look at the USA... Bad rhetoric. (RU might take the cake for being the largest evil on earth, but even so it doesn't excuse others' crimes).
Those are active murders, and are ignoring passive ones. Every death due to sanctions, every starvation in the US itself, every preventable death due to being blocked by the healthcare system. Add every death in Palestine, the Vietnam war, the internal struggles of China before the nationalists were defeated, every time they sold weapons to any group...
According to the 2019 data at https://ourworldindata.org/causes-of-death 0.4% of deaths are from nutritional deficiencies (this may be defined differently from starvation), and 0.2% from war battle deaths, but that graph includes deaths which would occur because of aging so the percentages massively downplay these causes - I haven't been able to find good sources for stats on preventable deaths.
What I also can't find is the percentage of indirect deaths caused by wars, which from that graph would probably mostly be from disease which could be big. Not to mention injuries, disabilities, etc..
Sanctions probably are also a big cause of death from disease, neonatal deaths (3.3%), maternal deaths (0.4%), etc., but I personally think lots of sanctions and boycotts (of e.g. apartheid South Africa, Russia, North Korea, Palestine, Israel, Iran, USA) are actually good (I don't know much about the Cuban) even-tho innocents are victimized long before the authoritarians and/or oligarchs are ousted by the sanctions.
I'm not doubting your comparative analysis of these wars, but instead I would like to place another claim on the table: wars are no longer the primary vehicle of violence in our global society, just the most naked and public-facing violence.
Some examples of these other acts (and these are indeed heavily interrelated):
- IMF loans and enforced austerity/liberalization
- NED-related influence operations
- coups
- sanctions
- embargoes
- military presence itself (via bases)
- funding of militant proxy groups
(Note that the primary vehicle of harm here is slowly economically depriving and strangling average people up to the last dollar, worldwide). Then you add this suffering to when the violence becomes protracted and sharpened via war.
Russia simply can't do this. Idk if it wants to; it probably does considering Ukraine (also Russia isn't like a person lol and I don't think it's all just Putin bc putting shit on one guy is naive imo; you can always replace the one guy). But Russia does not have the military and economic influence the US does.
This is just my understanding of the world like philosophically as I've spent 20-something beautiful years on this blue-green marble and another 375 on the red one (and also I'm like... incredibly lazy as a person!) so no sources 😔 but I am amenable to receiving new evidence!
US worldwide sanctions are killing way more than Russia and Iran. US hegemony leads all others in death
Just because you believe the propaganda and are uninformed doesn't make it so. The imperialist USSA and shitrael are responsible for arming the terrorists that murdered Iranian civilians to justify even more warcrimes.
You're parroting regime propaganda
The Republicans are way more murderous than the Democrats so I guess criticising the Democrats is a distraction and helps the fascists according to OP's logic.
There is no material difference between when a democrat votes to bomb Iran to liberate them vs when a republican votes to bomb Libya-Iraqn because they want to murder more Muslims.
Surely you're capable of admitting that the Republicans are putting far more immigrants in concentration camps than the Democrats, and therefore they're more murderous.
If you can't admit who's causing more harm, then I don't see the point of having any kind of discussion with you.
The old good cop bad cop routine really works on you eh. Can't see past it and you're incapable of having a proper conversation about the issue. You get offended, you think it's so obvious... I would kindly suggest that you look at the USA's & allies' foreign policy trajectory historically over the years. If you manage to look at the facts you will see that no matter which party is in power, the goals remain the same.
Watch how AOC and the like will not get elected and instead you will get a Newsom character running instead. Happened with Bernie and Hillary before and it will happen again.
AOC is just the new Bernie the Sheepdog, controlled oppositon
Who would you like to see run for the dems?
Nobody, that is a regime party and can't be fixed. It needs to go.
You need genuine 3rd parties, not these astroturfed faces pretending to be leftist keeping this theater going since forever.
Fair enough, but is there anyone after Nader?
There have been socialist candidates.
It's up to you if you want to vote for them or support another one, anyone can theoretically run.
You will have to get past the blue MAGA who during your last election fought harder to get them thrown of the ballots than fighting red MAGA.
Very telling.
Dems as a party need to be abandoned. Liberals scream FPTP then refuse to support better candidates to get them FPTP.
The greater harm is those posing as allies to the marginalized, those that built those camps, those that lay the foundations for Republican crimes against the working class.
Democrats voted to fund Trump's ICE. There is no material difference.
Maybe look up the numbers for the Drone King and Genocide Joe if you want to go there.
If you can’t admit Blue MAGA is just as bad you deserve Red MAGA, and I'm glad you got it.

Well aren't you just a ball of positivity? 166 comments federating over to our instance, and only 16 net upvotes across them. And if you downvote nearly half as often as you upvote, then it really seems like you're not getting much value out of this site. You might have a nicer time if you log off and go make some friends. You know, go bowling or play some video games. I think you'll have more fun than arguing with people on the internet, which, uh, seems to be most of what you do here.
What is that tool?
it's called the ad hominem tool.
The petty last resort for those without arguments or facts.
LOL another one scavenging through comments and attack the messenger when no arguments.
So there's plenty of disgusting USSA imperialist bootlickers on here.
It's not a popularity contest.
I don't like his anti-regime attitude so I'm pretentiously going to suggest he leaves. Would be much easier for you wouldn't it?
I'm going nowhere buddy.
You can stuff your ridiculous meaningless upvote count and whatever irrelevant BS up your blue magat ass.
If you want gleichschaltung go back to your regime controlled Reddit where you can be in your little echo chamber.
I like it perfectly fine here calling out regime bootlickers and putting them in their place, even if they disgust me sometimes.
BlueMAGA is 10 times worse than MAGA. MAGA tells you to your face they hate you. BlueMAGA will smile at you, embrace you, and hug as if they're an ally while they're driving a knife in your back. And before they do that, they will tokenize you if you were marginalized.
Which Democratic candidate has run on a platform of bombing Iran to liberate them?
Do you not see how the way the democrats who voted against the War Powers Resolution justified their votes? There is bipartisan consensus on imperialism abroad and concentration camps at home.
Oh, I thought you were referring to the electorate voting on candidates that were explicitly pro war with Iran.
As for how the two parties voted in the House of Representatives, I would argue that there is a clear material difference between one party voting 210-4 to reign in Trump's war, and the other voting 215-2 to let Trump keep on bombing.
None of them ever campaign on these issues, they just do it. There's never been a war that Democrats weren't foaming at the mouth to get into
When leftists do attack Republicans, you think we are one of you. Republicans and Democrats are cut them the exact same cloth, for the exact same ends.
Socialists are not democrats, they are on the polar opposite of the political scale. The Democrats as a whole do not mind fascism. They just prefer it covert, something they don't have to think about or see or even acknowledge, something they won't interrupt their brunch.

all 70 comments