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[–] 48 points 8 months ago (11 children)

Angela Lipps spent nearly six months in jail in Tennessee and North Dakota after being misidentified by Fargo police through AI facial recognition in a bank fraud investigation.

It was July 14, the day a team of U.S. Marshals arrested Lipps at her home in Tennessee. She said she was taken away at gunpoint while babysitting four young children. She was booked into her county jail in Tennessee as a fugitive from justice from North Dakota.

Lipps would sit in that Tennessee jail cell for nearly four months. As a fugitive, she was held without bail. Lipps learned, following a Fargo Police Department investigation, she had been charged with four counts of unauthorized use of personal identifying information and four counts of theft in North Dakota.

Officers from North Dakota did not pick up Lipps from her jail cell in Tennessee until Oct. 30 — 108 days after her arrest. The next day she made her first appearance in a North Dakota courtroom to fight the charges.

"If the only thing you have is facial recognition, I might want to dig a little deeper," said Jay Greenwood, the lawyer representing Lipps in North Dakota.

Greenwood immediately asked Lipps for her bank records. Once they were in hand, Fargo police met with him and Lipps at the Cass County jail on Dec. 19. She had already been in jail for more than five months. It was the first time police interviewed her.

On Christmas Eve, five days after the interview with Fargo police, the case was dismissed, and she was released from jail.

Unable to pay her bills from jail, she lost her home, her car and even her dog.

Another life ruined by a dysfunctional 'justice' system, with no consequences to those responsible and no compensation for the victim. How is this acceptable?

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  • [–] 22 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Should sue the AI facial recognition company. They can’t just say “whoopsie daisies” on that!

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  • [–] 24 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe, if she had a house, a car, a dog and a few million to fund the lawsuits. I guess it's just her fault that she's a hapless victim and doesn't have the means to sue, so she doesn't deserve justice. At least, that seems to be the essence of the system.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Generally lawyers take cases for post payment from the payout, if it's a good case.

    She's going to win this one.

    But the payout will come from tax payers, yhe budgets and pensions of police will be unaffected, and the facial recognition abuse will continue.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    I don't take pleasure in defending an AI company, and I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt she'd have case here. The AI tool is just a tool (and one based on probabilistic algorithms). She should sue whatever parts of the "justice" system misused the tool.

    If a cop wrongfully shoots someone, and it's the cop's fault (i.e. not a gun malfunction), I would guess that it would be hard to sue the gun manufacturer instead of the police department.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Sue the ever longing shit out of the AI compay

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  • [–] 16 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I hate AI as it currently exists, and I hate those that sell it as tools for critically important missions (let alone beyond anything experimental), but these errors were all made by humans. No one interviewed her for months after she already was imprisoned.

    A false arrest is already a terrible mistake, but what went on after was astonishingly worse and not an AI's fault. Anyone who dealt with this case should be personaly liable for what happened to this woman

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    these errors were all made by humans

    Yes, including the humans who work at and own the AI company that sold the shittty tool that the cops used. The AI company deserves to be sued if they claimed their product was reliable enough to do the job that the cops used it for.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    They have good lawyers (users are supposed to double check stuff like this) and the cops have immunity.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Nah, lawyer here, product liability action all day long and police do not have civil immunity for 1983 violations.

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  • [–] 22 points 8 months ago

    Whichever judge signed her arrest warrant should be sanctioned or something. That is gross negligence.

    💯 1
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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    “But it’s not AI’s fault”

    Well, the purpose of a system is what it does

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    AI is not to blame here. The humans who relied solely on the AI match are absolutely to blame. And let me also say a quick sarcastic USA! USA! USA!

    This is why we say ACAB: The system is completely broken. Not only the complete bullshit of arresting her based solely on the supposed face match, but also leaving her in jail not even talking to her, causing her to lose everything - house, belongings, dog - and even fucking abandoning her in Fargo once they were done fucking her life over. People fucking die on the streets. What a fucking nightmare.

    It's shit like this that causes me to have to pull back on pushing back against the folks who have turned on the US. We don't deserve bad treatment, they can still fuck off on that point. But the US is not a good country in very many ways.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Believe it or not, it's possible for there to be more than one person or entity to blame. If they were not using these AI products, they never would have made this mistake. So it's on both of them.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Believe it or not, it’s possible for there to be more than one person or entity to blame.

    WRONG. it is ALL YOUR FAULT, nobody else's. ;-)

    I agree with your comment in general, but I think in this case imho the blame is really just with the idiots that went solely on the result of the tool. Yeah, the tool was also wrong, for sure. So… I agree in general but disagree in this instance. But imho no worries, I think we're still basically on the same page about things in general. heh

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    Site does not load

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  • 56 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 197 points 8 months ago* (7 children)

    What kind of fucking court would accept AI output as evidence, even for probable cause? Where has it ever been validated? What are the documented Type 1 and Type 2 error rates in independent peer-reviewed tests? Where is the output that gives the rationale for why it said there was a match? Because without that, there's no more reason to believe it than a Magic 8-Ball.

    And holy shit, she's 50? That's three miles of bad Tennesee road.

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  • [–] 126 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    doesn't sound like a court was even involved. per the article, she was held in jail 5 months before even being interviewed by police. that sounds entirely unconstitutional?? how does that even happen? like someone said below, i hope she is able to sue for millions. this is insane

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  • [–] 56 points 7 months ago

    Well its possible because we have a constitutional right to a speedy and quick trial in the united states.

    So, since it is a constitutional right they get to shit all over it and do whatever the fuck they want to us anyway.

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago

    According to the court documents, the Fargo detective working the case then looked at Lipps' social media accounts and Tennessee driver's license photo.

    In his charging document, the detective wrote that Lipps appeared to be the suspect based on facial features, body type and hairstyle and color.

    Seems like a possibility the detective could have conveniently "forgot" to mention that the initial identification was by AI.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    And holy shit, she's 50? That's three miles of bad Tennesee road.

    Alcohol can be rough on the body.

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  • [–] 102 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Spoiler, it wasn’t AI but a detective and a failed system abdicating using any thought.

    Why did it take 5 months to even interview her? What the fuck it’s happening in US jails.

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  • [–] 64 points 7 months ago

    To steal a comment:

    [W]e're seeing the first instances of what reality looks like with AI in the hands of the average bear. Just like the excuse was "but the computer said it was correct," now we're just shifting to "but the AI said it was correct."

    Don't underestimate how much authority and thinking people will delegate to machines. Not to mention the lengths they'll go to weasel out of taking responsibility for a screw up like this (saw another comment in this thread about the Chief of Police stepping down but it being framed as "retirement").

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  • [–] 33 points 7 months ago

    Yeah the 5 months thing... That's the difference between having a $400/hour lawyer and no lawyer. The first guy could get you out by 6:00 p.m. on bail. If you have no lawyer, your appointment to be assigned lawyer is scheduled for next month.

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    and a failed system abdicating using any thought

    So the whole government at this point. Idiocracy was supposed to be funny fiction not depressing reality.

    Why did it take 5 months to even interview her? What the fuck it’s happening in US jails.

    Money and profits in that order.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    For the umpteenth fucking time, what's going on in the US today is not "Idiocracy!"

    In Idiocracy, the people were stupid, but honest. This is not that. This is malicious, which is worse.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Give us a better correlation then.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I suddenly realize you may have thought I was criticizing you, individually. Just so you know, that's not what I intended: I meant it as a general reaction to seeing that comparison made over and over again, and your instance of it just happened to be the one I attached it to.

    Sorry about that.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    That was what I read it as, no worries. I really can't think of a better correlation like that movie though. The stupid people part is key.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Ah, I see how we differ now. I think the key isn't just that they're stupid, but more importantly that they're incurious, mean-spirited, cowardly, and duped by propaganda. And that the leadership is malicious and corrupt, not merely incompetent. As such, I think just about every other dystopia is a better fit than Idiocracy is. 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Star Wars: Andor -- take your pick!

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Idiocracy is about what happens after the current time when smarter more level headed people are trying to put the pieces back together. We are in the prequel era, things are going to get worse before they get better.

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  • [–] 100 points 7 months ago*

    Let's not forget about this part:

    On Christmas Eve, five days after the interview with Fargo police, the case was dismissed, and she was released from jail.

    But, Lipps was now stranded in Fargo.

    "I had my summer clothes on, no coat, it was so cold outside, snow on the ground, scared, I wanted out but I didn't know what I was going to do, how I was going to get home," Lipps said.

    Fargo police did not cover Angela's expenses to get home after her release from jail. Local defense attorneys gave her money to pay for a hotel room and food on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

    This shit was barely one step up from a "starlight tour," and only because she didn't actually die of exposure.

    It's sadistic on top of being unjust. The cops need to [redacted].

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  • [–] 56 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    What a bunch of incompetent pigs. I hope she sures for millions. 

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  • [–] 39 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    More money out of our pockets to cover for these useless fucks

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago

    This is the part that infuriates me. The cops that fucked up will face no repercussions. It’s the tax payers that will foot the bill for this obviously incoming lawsuit and settlement. The solution is clear. Make cops get the equivalent of doctor’s malpractice insurance. Then make the insurance companies pay the settlement. And when the cops insurance payments go up, the cop has to pay. Or stop being a cop because they suck at it. Problem solved.

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  • [–] 54 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    AI is shit.

    Facial recognition is shit.

    But none of that was really the issue here:

    Lipps spent nearly four months in a Tennessee jail without bail - classified as a fugitive, she had no hearing, no interview, nothing. North Dakota officers didn't retrieve her until October 30, 108 days after the arrest. October 31 was her first court appearance and the first time police spoke to her, reports InForum.

    Arrested and thrown in jail for 108 days before seeing any sort of judge is a constitutional violation.

    We hear about this because it's an obvious wrong case to an old innocent grandma...

    But it's not the only time it's happening. And if this happened to her, it can happen to anyone.

    A lazy/dumb cop or ICE agent can just declare you're someone they're looking for, and by the time it's settled your life is destroyed.

    We can't keep kicking police reform down the road.

    We can't settle for moderate politicians who say they'll try on a few issues.

    We need politicians who understand that everything is fucked and desperately needs fixed across the board.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Do politicians still have your faith?

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    This is like asking if you have faith in plumbers..

    But no, I don't have "faith" in anyone or anything.

    That's why I vote and advocate for others to do so, because lots of informed voters mitigates the threats from bad politicians.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Allow me to rephrase.

    Do you think it is likely for voting to create a difference?

    There is nothing constitutional about the US and how it operates anymore.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Do you think it is likely for voting to create a difference?

    Yes, because I understand our political system...

    There is nothing constitutional about the US and how it operates anymore.

    You don't seem to even understand the meaning of the words used to describe our political system...

    Stop asking rhetorical questions like you're teaching people, start asking real questions so you don't remain ignorant of how society actually works.

    Just ask someone else

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago

    I’m appalled on how she was treated. I hope that throughout this whole ordeal she met kind people that treated here with decency and humanity.

    Also, if that’s how the US treat its own citizens imagine how people being arrested by Trumps immigration police are being treated. Scary times.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    using and trusting llm at all for something like this is the crime here..

    but then again, maybe this is just test run for taking away "unwanted" people, using handily mistaken facial recognition as excuse. If cases like this start happening more its propably that, and if they start happening enough people will lose interest and it wont be covere by media so much anymore. And after that they have neat system where they can capture anyone they want and can claim "mistake" if they get caught.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    I don't see how in the world people never headed my warnings about Ai in general ever being involved in the applications of law, of which it should never be the sole source of proofs and never be the judge of basickly anything. It has a lot more to do with it's general and ethical fallacies then to do with kerrens forehead, that's for sure.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Archive It said she lost her home, job and dog. What a bunch of assholes.

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    That particular archive has a nasty habit of changing the content of saved articles, and then hijacking your browser to launch DDoS attacks on people the secretive owner of the archive doesn't like.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It's bad enough that Wikipedia no longer allows linking to pages archived on there, and they're actively working to replace any links already in use

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Archive.today_guidance

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    Damn! Thanks for pointing this out.

    Ars Technica article about it

    In the course of discussing whether Archive.today should be deprecated because of the DDoS, Wikipedia editors discovered that the archive site altered snapshots of webpages to insert the name of the blogger who was targeted by the DDoS. The alterations were apparently fueled by a grudge against the blogger over a post that described how the Archive.today maintainer hid their identity behind several aliases.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Do you have a source for this? I never ask for sources, but I'm making an exception for this.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago*

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/02/wikipedia-bans-archive-today-after-site-executed-ddos-and-altered-web-captures/

    Archive.today is also archive.is and archive.ph. There might be other mirrors i'm unaware of.

    Edit: Actually the mirrors are listed on wikipedia. Here they are:

    archive.today
    archive.fo
    archive.is
    archive.li
    archive.md
    archive.ph
    archive.vn
    archiveiya74codqgiixo33q62qlrqtkgmcitqx5u2oeqnmn5bpcbiyd.onion

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Facial recognition software. Whether it's AI or not is debatable.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    What's the other side of the debate? CNNs are excellent at facial recognition and they've been around for decades.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago

    I hope she sues and makes it hurt.

    ACAB

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Sue the software company for defamation.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    There are 4 things that need to be true for a defamation case. The statement must be false. The statement must be presented in away a reasonable person would believe it. The statement must be published for at least one other person to see. The statement must cause harm

    The hardest part will be the second condition. The software publisher probably has all kinds of disclaimers in their EULA to cover this one. It also depends on how the software presents the information to the user.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The woman didn't sign a EULA with the vendor.

    I would say your three reqs are met.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    It's not the woman it's the police officer/department that would agree. So, if there is language saying the user knows and understands that the system is not accurate then it becomes harder to go after the developer.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

    I find it hard to believe the software gives a yes or no answer. It almost certainly gives some sort of score and it’s up to the human to interpret that.

    This is entirely on Fargo police

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    If I was the architect of the system that is how I would do it. However a high enough score could still be sufficient in this case. The system made an assertion that lead to damages even if the assertion was 60% match.

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago*

    Also this is the best part in the article:

    We see that you have javascript disabled. Please enable javascript and refresh the page to continue reading local news. If you feel you have received this message in error, please contact the customer support team at

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Sue baby sue

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    "Fargo police did not cover Angela's expenses to get home after her release from jail. Local defense attorneys gave her money to pay for a hotel room and food on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

    The day after Christmas, F5 Project founder Adam Martin drove Lipps to Chicago so she could get home to Tennessee. Fargo-based F5 Project is an organization providing services and resources to individuals struggling with incarceration, mental health and addiction."

    It's bittersweet to read bits like this. It reminds me of the Mr Rogers line about how, in a disaster, you should "look for the helpers" if you need reminders of goodness to avoid becoming demoralised.

    I am glad that there are so many good people who are fighting for real justice — even people who have committed crimes don't deserve the inhumane treatment they experience under our legal system. I wish it weren't necessary though. These small kindnesses don't make up for all the ways this imprisonment fucked up her life.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    Lipps is back home in Tennessee

    she lost her home, her car and even her dog

    At least there'll be a lot of very relatable music...

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  • 4 comments in c/politics@beehaw.org view that post
    [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Plus, fingerprints indicating she didn't have 6 fingers made them doubt the AI model

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    The investigator also wildly fucked up. The surveillance video shows someone decades younger. Not just AI caused this travesty.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    In Terry Gilliam's "Brazil" the inciting incident is a fly getting caught in a typewriter as a drone types an arrest order for a political dissident, leading the police to raid the wrong house and kill an innocent man. Crazy shit.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Wow, the future is now eh.

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  • 2 comments in c/techtakes@awful.systems view that post
    [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    FARGO — A grandmother from Tennessee is working to get her life back after what she says was a case of mistaken identity that nearly cost her everything.

    Angela Lipps spent nearly six months in jail after Fargo police connected her to a bank fraud case in the metro.

    It's a crime she says she didn't commit. In fact, she said she's never been to North Dakota.

    Lipps, 50, is the mother of three grown children and has five grandchildren, spending nearly her entire life in north-central Tennessee. The extent of her travels is limited to neighboring states.

    She's never been on an airplane in her life.

    

    Angela Lipps speaks with WDAY News during an interview about her wrongful arrest and release in a Fargo bank fraud case.

    Matt Henson / WDAY

    That changed last summer when police flew her to North Dakota to face criminal charges after facial recognition showed she was the main suspect in what Fargo police called an organized bank fraud case.

    "It was so scary, I can still see it in my head, over and over again," Lipps said.

    It was July 14, the day a team of U.S. Marshals arrested Lipps at her home in Tennessee. She said she was taken away at gunpoint while babysitting four young children. She was booked into her county jail in Tennessee as a fugitive from justice from North Dakota.

    "I've never been to North Dakota, I don't know anyone from North Dakota," Lipps said.

    Lipps would sit in that Tennessee jail cell for nearly four months. As a fugitive, she was held without bail. Lipps learned, following a Fargo Police Department investigation, she had been charged with four counts of unauthorized use of personal identifying information and four counts of theft in North Dakota.

    In Tennessee, she was given a court appointed lawyer for the extradition process. To fight the charges, she was told she would have to go to North Dakota.

    Through an open records request, WDAY News obtained the Fargo police file in this case. In April and May 2025, detectives were investigating several bank fraud cases. A woman is seen using a fake U.S. Army military I.D. card to withdraw tens of thousands of dollars.

    

    Surveillance video shows a woman using a fake military ID to withdraw large sums of money; Fargo police mistakenly identified her as Angela Lipps.

    Contributed

    In an effort to help identify the woman in the surveillance video, court documents show Fargo police used facial recognition software. The software identified the person as Angela Lipps. According to the court documents, the Fargo detective working the case then looked at Lipps' social media accounts and Tennessee driver's license photo.

    In his charging document, the detective wrote that Lipps appeared to be the suspect based on facial features, body type and hairstyle and color.

    Lipps told WDAY News that no one from the Fargo Police Department ever called to question her.

    Officers from North Dakota did not pick up Lipps from her jail cell in Tennessee until Oct. 30 — 108 days after her arrest. The next day she made her first appearance in a North Dakota courtroom to fight the charges.

    

    Angela Lipps booking photo while at the Cass County Jail.

    Contributed / Cass County Jail

    "If the only thing you have is facial recognition, I might want to dig a little deeper," said Jay Greenwood, the lawyer representing Lipps in North Dakota.

    Greenwood immediately asked Lipps for her bank records. Once they were in hand, Fargo police met with him and Lipps at the Cass County jail on Dec. 19. She had already been in jail for more than five months. It was the first time police interviewed her.

    Her bank records showed she was more than 1,200 miles away, at home in Tennessee at the same time police claimed she was in Fargo committing fraud.

    "Around the same time she's depositing Social Security checks ... she is buying cigarettes at a gas station, around the same time, she is buying a pizza, she is using a cash app to buy an Uber Eats," Greenwood said.

    

    Jay Greenwood, Angela Lipps’ North Dakota lawyer, speaks with WDAY News during an interview about proving her innocence in the Fargo bank fraud case.

    Matt Henson / WDAY

    On Christmas Eve, five days after the interview with Fargo police, the case was dismissed, and she was released from jail.

    But, Lipps was now stranded in Fargo.

    "I had my summer clothes on, no coat, it was so cold outside, snow on the ground, scared, I wanted out but I didn't know what I was going to do, how I was going to get home," Lipps said.

    Fargo police did not cover Angela's expenses to get home after her release from jail. Local defense attorneys gave her money to pay for a hotel room and food on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

    The day after Christmas, F5 Project founder Adam Martin drove Lipps to Chicago so she could get home to Tennessee. Fargo-based F5 Project is an organization providing services and resources to individuals struggling with incarceration, mental health and addiction.

    "I'm just glad it's over. I'll never go back to North Dakota," Lipps said.

    For more than a week, WDAY News tried to arrange an on camera interview with Fargo Police Chief David Zibolski to discuss the case. Through a spokesperson the chief declined an on-camera interview. WDAY News brought the issue up on Wednesday, March 11, at Zibolski's retirement news conference.

    "Why did nobody from Fargo Police ever speak with Angela Lipps for the five months she was in jail?" Zibolski was asked.

    "Thank you, Matt (Henson), for that question but we are not here to talk about that today," Zibolski replied.

    Lipps is back home in Tennessee now, but is still feeling the impact from the incident. She told WDAY News that no one from the Fargo Police Department has apologized for the incident.

    Unable to pay her bills from jail, she lost her home, her car and even her dog.

    Fargo police say the bank fraud case is still under investigation and no arrests have been made.

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  • 1 comment in c/thepoliceproblem@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 15 points 7 months ago

    it's easier for them to hit that 22% solve rate if they don't have to do any actual work.

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