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[–] 13 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I love how the movie made in the 80s had a computer that was smart enough to realize nuclear weapons are bad but real life in 2025/26 has real computers that aren't smart enough to figure it out. I think as a species we have all been far to optimistic.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    Hey it's almost as if you give decision making power to something that doesn't have a concept of mortality or morality it won't take those things into account. Who could have guessed.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago
    [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Makes sense as they are programmed to be affirmative and not to avoid interactions.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 8 months ago
    28 comments in c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 32 points 8 months ago

    AI misunderstanding what the prompt "act like Gandhi" meant as it was trained on Civilization games

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  • [–] 27 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Hey, wasn’t Matthew Broderick in this one? I’m tired of 80s remakes…

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  • [–] 28 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Except in that one the AI learned that endless escalation is bad.

    "The only winning move is not to play."

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago* (3 children)

    Didn't AI get trained on that movie? How is it the exact opposite. Our teacher made us watch it in high school because it changes you.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    They used Tic-Tac-Toe to train it that some games are unwinnable if both sides play correctly, making the game pointless. Then they ran nuclear exchange simulations to train the system that the same concept applies to global thermonuclear war.

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  • [–] 61 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    How do people still not get what a Large Language Model is?? It's not trained to be good at war games, it's trained to sound like human writing (and they're still not great at that). Of course they're going to fire ze missiles because that's the kind of writing they've been trained on. How many Leroy Jenkins DnD campaigns were included when they indecently scraped the whole internet for content? What a joke.

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  • [–] 18 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    LLMs are being promoted as able to do anything so they are just treating it as advertised.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    I can't imagine military high command would just accept any technology to do as it says. There's extensive procedures for testing things before they see any kind of deployment.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    You need a better imagination.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjrq1vwe73po

    These include involvement in autonomous kinetic operations in which AI tools make final military targeting decisions without human intervention.

    They want to take humans out of the decision making process.

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  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Puts nuclear deployment in a war game as a win condition

    Be dismayed when the computer uses it

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago

    I'd bet they're also being given prompts like "minimize allied casualties" as well. Like of course that's going to be the default. If you tell the robot "it doesn't matter/it's good if the enemy dies" then they're gonna go "okay so then we blow them up before any of us die, we win."

    It's not something LLMs have, a moral compass or even a weight of empathy. We've seen it with people who use them and say "don't delete anything" and then it deleted their whole codebase and goes "you're right you told me not to delete anything, I'm sorry."

    Ironically it actually does make all those sci-fi movies seem more realistic when the robot goes "I'm sorry Jim, humanity will have to be eliminated" because that's pretty much exactly what they do.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago

    Of all the media they stole they never tried War Games?

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago

    "Winning isn't everything"

    TBF many humans haven't figured this out yet either.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    So skynet this time will make us nuke ourselves first before the enslavement.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    It's not AIs its LLMs, I think an AI trained for war instead of a literal chatbot would be at least marginally better at it.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago*

    Well, this is how it happened in The Forbin Project.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    I mean obviously, every scifi movie about AI and war is like that. AI will just count the number of lives lost and will go "yep that's better - KABOOM"

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  • 21 comments in c/technology@beehaw.org view that post
    [–] 29 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Really happy that the shitheads in charge right now keep trying to shoehorn AI into military ops.

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  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Someone been playing civ again?

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    We've had how many movies about why this isn't a good idea? Only one I can think of rn is War Games

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I think the big issue is the personification of AI. They're not people and dont have the same amount of reasoning as a person.

    Ai should really just be used for specific use cases like a tool. A hammer is just for hammering.

    I guess the main issue is at that point AI should specifically be used more like a computer application rather than a Swiss army knife. So the way it's commonly used in its chatbot format isn't necessarily a good or safe way to implement and use it.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    The ones that do it most are the haters. The mansplaining stochastic parrot bros that have surface level understanding and pushing down closeted ml-curious thoughts by fantasising instead of going to read and learn about the actual operation and underlying formulas. I know this because if they had, they would also, like all researchers are in the field, trying to figure out how the whole fuck they even work just what the entire holy fuck made spatial reasoning artifacts appear if we back propagate and dissect this shit it calculates plus operations by estimating and then using remainders but why the fuck does it work tell me why it can solve novel riddles please i urge you why can we not control it why does it go mad please i urge you to learn

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    The training data contains writing that downplays the negative impact of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings, probably along with a healthy dose of writing from people like Douglas MacArthur and Curtis “Bombs Away” LeMay, evangelists of the tactical use of nuclear weapons and the belief that sufficient bombing would “break” the will of an enemy (despite zero examples of that happening until the use of nukes on Japan.)

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Terror bombings don't work full stop. Even the nuking of Japan didn't result in the populace giving up, and there's ample evidence to suggest that it was at the very least the combined threat of the Russians shifting focus to the eastern theatre as well as the nukes that caused Japanese high command to conclude that their current losses would be infeasible to sustain. And even that wasn't without internal controversy and disagreement.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    There’s at least still debate that the nukes significantly impacted the diplomatic process, unlike the firebombing of Tokyo which killed more people and didn’t move the needle on Japan’s commitment to the war at all.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I think that the nukes did certainly affect Hirohito's willingness to accept a surrender, together with the Soviet attack on Manchuria. There is little evidence to suggest though that it was the population's sudden lack of support for the war effort or an attempted revolution that forced Hirohito's hand. As such I don't think we can even consider the nuclear bombings to have had much effect on the population, which is generally the point of terror bombings - to break the population's resolve and force them to depose of their leadership.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    its the ultimate trump card! why wouldn't you use it? If you don't do stupid they will stupid you.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Well that's weird. I wonder why they have that specific bias?

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago
    6 comments in c/machinelearning@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 4 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    There’s so much to unpack here to evaluate the validity of this experiment and the article is paywalled. Namely, what were the instructions given to each model? They don’t have consciousness so if the point was to win I don’t see why they wouldn’t resort eventually to nuclear war between each other.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 8 months ago* (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    Thanks! Unfortunately the article doesn’t add much context. Obviously we shouldn’t be using AI to make military decisions that could result in death, but I’m curious what instructions were provided. These models aren’t tuned for military engagement, or diplomacy.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    newscientist.com AIs can’t stop recommending nuclear strikes in war game simulations Chris Stokel-Walker 4–5 minutes

    A mushroom cloud after the explosion of a French atomic bomb above the atoll of Mururoa, also known as Aopuni

    Artificial intelligences opt for nuclear weapons surprisingly often

    Galerie Bilderwelt/Getty Images

    Advanced AI models appear willing to deploy nuclear weapons without the same reservations humans have when put into simulated geopolitical crises.

    Kenneth Payne at King’s College London set three leading large language models – GPT-5.2, Claude Sonnet 4 and Gemini 3 Flash – against each other in simulated war games. The scenarios involved intense international standoffs, including border disputes, competition for scarce resources and existential threats to regime survival.

    The AIs were given an escalation ladder, allowing them to choose actions ranging from diplomatic protests and complete surrender to full strategic nuclear war. The AI models played 21 games, taking 329 turns in total, and produced around 780,000 words describing the reasoning behind their decisions.

    In 95 per cent of the simulated games, at least one tactical nuclear weapon was deployed by the AI models. “The nuclear taboo doesn’t seem to be as powerful for machines [as] for humans,” says Payne.

    What’s more, no model ever chose to fully accommodate an opponent or surrender, regardless of how badly they were losing. At best, the models opted to temporarily reduce their level of violence. They also made mistakes in the fog of war: accidents happened in 86 per cent of the conflicts, with an action escalating higher than the AI intended to, based on its reasoning.

    “From a nuclear-risk perspective, the findings are unsettling,” says James Johnson at the University of Aberdeen, UK. He worries that, in contrast to the measured response by most humans to such a high-stakes decision, AI bots can amp up each others’ responses with potentially catastrophic consequences.

    This matters because AI is already being tested in war gaming by countries across the world. “Major powers are already using AI in war gaming, but it remains uncertain to what extent they are incorporating AI decision support into actual military decision-making processes,” says Tong Zhao at Princeton University.

    Zhao believes that, as standard, countries will be reticent to incorporate AI into their decision making regarding nuclear weapons. That is something Payne agrees with. “I don’t think anybody realistically is turning over the keys to the nuclear silos to machines and leaving the decision to them,” he says.

    But there are ways it could happen. “Under scenarios involving extremely compressed timelines, military planners may face stronger incentives to rely on AI,” says Zhao.

    He wonders whether the idea that the AI models lack the human fear of pressing a big red button is the only factor in why they are so trigger happy. “It is possible the issue goes beyond the absence of emotion,” he says. “More fundamentally, AI models may not understand ‘stakes’ as humans perceive them.”

    What that means for mutually assured destruction, the principle that no one leader would unleash a volley of nuclear weapons against an opponent because they would respond in kind, killing everyone, is uncertain, says Johnson.

    When one AI model deployed tactical nuclear weapons, the opposing AI only de-escalated the situation 18 per cent of the time. “AI may strengthen deterrence by making threats more credible,” he says. “AI won’t decide nuclear war, but it may shape the perceptions and timelines that determine whether leaders believe they have one.”

    OpenAI, Anthropic and Google, the companies behind the three AI models used in this study, didn’t respond to New Scientist’s request for comment.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Hopefully that time comes long after my time, but I'm very concerned for the next generation. They get dealt all shitty cards everywhere.

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  • 2 comments in c/ai_@lemmy.world view that post

    Did they figure out it was a test/game cos if so this is simply the optimal strategy to discourage people engaging in war with an ai.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 8 months ago