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[–] 131 points 8 months ago (10 children)

Ad-blocking is a property right. I have every right to control what my device does or does not display, by definition of ownership. Conversely, advertisers or other parties attempting to colonize my device by forcing it to display something against my (the owner's) will is a hostile act that violates my rights.

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  • [–] 31 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Except we are beginning to not own what we own. The computer is yours, the software is just licensed, and they are trying to take everything away from us, from ovens to washing machines, they want to make it all subscription, spying on us, and serving us ads. We don't have the right to repair the products when we break, and it's a federal felony to "break" any sort of digital lock on a device, and I think to change it's programming too.

    That said, it's a moot point as of yet, because while websites forced me to whitelist their sites to use them when I had adblock, I was told about ublockorigin, and I see no ads, and the sites can't tell I am using it.

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  • [–] 24 points 8 months ago

    the software is just licensed

    That is a GODDAMN LIE perpetrated by copyright cartel shysters to swindle all of us. The entire legal theory that assertion rests on is absolute nonsense: they want to pretend that you "need" to accept an "EULA" to use the software because otherwise copying it from the installation media onto your hard drive and/or into RAM would be a violation, but that is wrong because 17 U.S. Code Β§ 117 (a) (1) carves out an explicit exception that allows it. EULAs are bunk and do not constitute a valid contact, as they not only lack 'acceptance' because they attempt to work on adhesion (trying to impose new terms after-the-fact when the transaction to obtain the copy has already occurred and concluded), but fail to provide any meaningful 'consideration' to begin with!

    They can pry my hardware and software that I own from my cold, dead hands.

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  • Sadly, and I am not a lawyer so this is not even close to legal advice(!!), "beginning" is potentially the wrong word when talking about licenses due to copyright. Because even a single flipped bit in RAM on your computer could be constructed as a copyright infringement if pushed in a legal battle and decided in a court. (This all sounds squishy because, again, I am not a lawyer and as far as I know nothing of this sort has had clear ground setting or breaking rulings yet...)

    Why am I of this opinion despite also usually loving to take the "my device my rules stance"? Because I got to proof read some final exams for legal professionals-to-be for their technical accuracy and let me tell you: the most likely legal outcome they saw was not good for most of us. (So now I really really hope that some high up court rules on a case like this and sides with "common sense" about what is and is not allowed with our owned hardware!)

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    I always and will also try to give websites 1 try.

    If I like your content on your site you get 1 try to show ads and if they are not offensively placed and not playing audio.. you get to live

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  • [+] -11 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Thats fair if you also hold the stance that they can block you if you aren't paying to use the service. But i doubt you do.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    What fucking "service?" Software running locally on my own computer isn't a goddamned "service" to begin with!

    Also, fuck off with your bullshit assumption of bad faith.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    The web browser and the website are two different piecee of software. Running a web browser doesnt entitle you to access a web server.

    You are asking the web server for the page and its giving it to you with ads. If you then decide you dont want the ads the webserver has every right to not serve you the page.

    It would be different if it was a local application. Web servers have a material cost for processing a request it costs money to serve you that page. Its completely fair for you to decide that your browser isnt going to display ads but its also just as fair for the website to turn around and reject your request or choose to serve you something else.

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  • [–] 158 points 8 months ago (15 children)

    advertising is just propaganda without a cause

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  • [–] 95 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    idk about other languages, but in Portuguese it's literally the same word

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

    Neither "anuncios" (adverts) nor "marketing" (yeah, we use the English word) are the same as "propaganda" (its spelled the same as in English but said slightly differently)

    Is what you describe a Brasilian Portuguese thing?

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Probably is a Brazilian thing, but we have words for publicity(publicidade), advertising(anΓΊncios), marketing(same english words because we are a bunch of removed). Propaganda is all this things, I don't know if is just colloquialism but people uses more the term propaganda than the specifics.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Ah right.

    In Portugal in general use "propaganda" is definitelly just the political stuff whilst "publicidade" is definitelly just the commercial stuff.

    Mind you, maybe before those two concepts were more merged: I know that in legal terms the political stuff is explicitly called "Propaganda PolΓ­tica" since I've done paphlet distribution for a political party here during election campaigns and the rules for putting "political propaganda" in people's mailboxes are different than for "publicidade".

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    Maybe there's a technical difference, but at least in Brazil, publicidade and propaganda are widely used as synonyms

    It is uncommon to call propaganda (in the political sense) publicidade, so maybe in popular conversations this makes publicidade a kind of propaganda, and not the other way around.

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  • [–] 34 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    The cause is to separate you from your money and time. To reinforce and promote capital as the ultimate gatekeepers.

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  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 child)

    yeah but it's not made by the people the propaganda works for. they're just cogs. normal propaganda is made by the people championing the cause in question.

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    [–] 65 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    Advertisement makes me want that product even less.

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  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    The worse the product is, the more desperate they get to shove it in your face. Good products don't need to pay others to pretend it's good, you just find out via word-of-mouth or free trials

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  • I was thinking about this just the other day. There's a popular market in my home state, one I've been going to since childhood. It's a single store, not a chain, and it's almost always packed. I've never seen nor heard a single ad for it in my life. Naturally, that makes me like the place even more.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Yep I actively avoid companies that inundate me. I've switched insurance companies because of it (local agent got me much better rates too).

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    So you're telling me gaico doesn't save as much on car insurance?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Seriously going through an insurance broker is awesome. Best dang way to deal with insurance because I can just call up the broker and have them do it all for me, plus they get paid on commission by the insurance companies (which are mostly smaller B2B companies that don't spend millions on advertising) so it's not even like you pay more for your insurnace

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    People say this but, if advertising didn't work, companies would have stopped paying for ads long time ago. It works for them, we view ads and then we are willing to pay more for a product that is worth less; it's this simple.

    The only solution for us is to avoid ads at all cost.

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  • [–] 57 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    my kids have grown up with my adblocked version of the internet, when they connect to other internet thats not a filtered feed they get annoyed by ads in their games and on their videos

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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    My wife initially hated my piholes, because they broke some of her phone’s stuff. She runs stock Samsung Android, so lots of the built in Google stuff got broken. She was constantly complaining about it. We eventually spent an evening hunt-and-peck’ing the various blocked DNS requests, to see which ones were required for her phone to work properly, and which ones were just Google Adsense BS. Got her set up with a WireGuard VPN connection that automatically activates when she’s disconnected from the home WiFi, so she’s always protected.

    Now that she’s used to it, it’s like a wake up slap whenever she encounters ads. We moved a while ago, and all of my more advanced networking stuff (including the pihole) was sitting in a box until I had time to set it all up. She suddenly started seeing ads again, and was absolutely gobsmacked at how pervasive they are. What really sent her over the edge was when our Roku TV was paused, and went to its idle screen. The idle screen is an auto-scrolling image, and it had an ad plastered across the scrolling image. She was like β€œwhat the fuck we’re not even watching anything right now! It’s just idle! Why the hell are they advertising to us on the damned idle screen??” That was what finally pushed her to give me an evening to set all of the networking stuff back up.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    Do you have links to any knowledge base docs or guides? I tried setting this up a few years back and couldn't really nail it down and just kinda gave up because it broke too many websites and my smarttv apps wouldn't work either.

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  • [–] 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

    Our smart TV doesn't allow an ad blocker on YouTube, but my kids have developed a way to skip ads anyway. They don't tolerate ads more than I do, and I couldn't be prouder.

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  • [–] 50 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you. You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity. Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It's yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don't owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don't even start asking for theirs.

    Banksy

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  • [–] 46 points 8 months ago (10 children)

    All ads are non consensual and designed to get your attention. So we put them in places like on giant boards along highways. Very cool, very safe.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago

    Nice point if view. Ironically we live in times when minding others boundaries is almost common sense. Abusive behavior gets public contempt. But everyone is just accepting manipulative, malicious and intrusive ads.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Yet another reason we need to move away from cars. Since the distraction is likely not going away, we need to minimize the safety/distraction issue.

    (Goddamn we need so much high speed rail, and yesterday)

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Goddamn we need so much high speed rail, and yesterday

    And so much more standard speed rail too! There's tons of railroad lines all over the country, and even many old stations still standing. Let's start building RDCs again (or better, a modern equivalent) and start running passenger services on all of those lines

    The challenges are several fold. For one, there's basically no manufacturers of passenger railcars left in the country. Occasionally a network upgrade will lead to one being spun up for a few years then it'll shut down once the order is fulfilled because there's no consistent market for passenger railcars in North America.

    I'd propose using a mix of historic British Rail procurement practices and current military contract practices where you put up a pot of money for up for say 3 companies to develop a prototype railcar meeting a specific spec. Make the spec for a fairly basic car and be ready to update station platforms for ADA compliance rather than forcing the cars to be compatible with 20 different platform heights and designs. Then test those 3 prototypes and the winner receives a bonus as the design is purchased by the federal government, and next you license that design out for all manufacturers in the country to produce, followed by an ongoing order of say 48 railcars per year from 5 different manufacturers and you have 248 railcars per year (enough to replace Amtrak's entire current fleet within 10 years) from 5 different companies (reducing risk of one company mucking it all up) all manufactured with local labor and you have a standard design that is already in active production for other operators to order as well. Repeat this process for more equipment and designs as needed, and suddenly you have a bunch of known standard designs that your network can be built to and you have health competition between manufacturers which will be big enough (because each will have around 50-100 million dollars a year in revenue from that one ongoing federal contract alone) to start performing their own independent R&D to make their own unique stock to try to attract more orders from rail operators

    This is what the federal government exists for, making ambitious infrastructure projects like this possible. Policians just aren't interested in thinking big enough

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    If you don't think you can do away with billboards I don't see how you'd think you could get people to stop using cars. Especially with how many things get delievered door to door these days. You could put every commuter on trains and the roads would still have traffic. I don't see changing that being any easier than getting rid of billboards and other highly intrusive ads.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    I understand that cars serve a purpose. But trains and buses move orders of magnitude more people than cars could ever dream. With a properly functioning transit system (including the aforementioned high speed rails) traffic would clear up (because traffic didn't happen to you, you are traffic), and fewer distracted operators would be on the road.

    And in removing those people from operating vehicles, the distraction of a billboard, and the subsequent potential accidents, are mitigated.

    And yes we also need to get rid of billboards.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    You could put every commuter on trains and the roads would still have traffic.

    True, just one more lane, right?

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    The thing with adding lanes is induced demand. By nature of there being more space for cars on that road more drivers will choose take that road over other roads. Cars don't magically come into existence, people drive them, and people drive them for a reason, most commonly to go to/from somewhere

    Trains (and bikes and buses) take cars off the road. Every person riding on a transit solution that isn't a car is a individual vehicle trip saved. When every vehicle contains an average of 1.2 people in it, you've got very close to 1:1 vehicle reduction for every trip that's not taken by car

    So to your point, are some number of non-drivers choosing not to drive because of traffic? Probably a small number of them. But a complete transit system that has the real world effect of fewer cars on the road will mean few people owning cars. Why would a family own 2 cars when one is parked most of the time? Why spend $20k on a new (to you) car if you're barely using the one you have/had? Fewer cars means less cars on the road which means less traffic. This is the dream.

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  • [–] 45 points 8 months ago (11 children)

    I moved to Linux, use Freetube, LineageOS on the phone, listen all day to internet radios from the command line, browser with uBlock add on and it's been years since I saw or listened an ad.

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    I would like to know more about this Internet radio command line thingy

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  • [+] 20 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Yikes. I opened the web page and saw an ad. Started the radio, heard an ad.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Until, you know, you went outside.

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  • [–] 112 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (24 children)

    If you want to actively shit on them, there is AdNauseam, which is a fork of uBlock Origin but in addition to blocking the ads, it clicks on absolutely everything, sending fake signals. Polluting their database is costing them money and they have to deal with all the noise.

    Not for everyone, but definitely an active hostility towards these fucks.

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  • [–] 73 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    That seems like it opens the door to a lot of security issues. Part of the reason to use uBlock is that ads are a known threat vector.

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  • [–] 41 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    All clicks are performed in an isolated sandbox separate from the user area (basically imagine the click register signal going out, but nothing more).

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    What if you have a multi layered ad blocking setup where you’re using ublock origin and pi.hole and a VPN with blocking?

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  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    The multiple layers of redundancy would likely clash with Adnauseum, yeah. Although that probably is just wasted compute - you may only need one or two of those solutions to have effective adblocking (uBlock for supported browsers, pi.hole for devices unable to have uBlock installed) rather than all 3 at once.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Well I’m not gonna bother turning off any of the layers when I’m out and about. Like, my laptop still needs ublock when I’m not at home. And the vpn is just for certain use cases.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    If you set up tailscale, you can connect your laptop to your home network and have the pi-hole everywhere.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Except it still rewards the site for hosting ads in the first place

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  • [–] 39 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    As someone who works in marketing - they will tote these clicks as a great success and continue to do what they are doing, maybe even more so, but will be distraught by the lack of follow through when it comes to sales. I guess if it happened long enough, And on a big enough scale, they might eventually give up but it would take years

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    Didn't Louis Rossmann say that the conversion rate when they briefly ran repair shop ads was less than 2% or something similar? I think he referred to it when talking about using adblock and donating/buying merch for your favorite creators instead.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    It's a cute idea, but they would just incorporate some amount of false clicks into their metrics.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Exactly, its data poisioning.

    If someone is trying to build an ad profile on you (even if you personally dont see the ads) then it feeds them junk data instead of real date.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    If you think clicking all the ads makes a meaningful difference, then all the power to you.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (3 children)

    Its purely out of spite, plus, im not clicking anything.

    I run the full ad blocking suite anyway and see more ads watching a sportsball game with the family than I do on my home network over the course of months.

    1. I dont see the ads
    2. The data they generate is wrong and random, if that is used to train AI it runs the risk of poisioning the model.
    3. The site Im on gets paid by the ad vendor, even though the interaction is fraudulent.

    I call it a win-win

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    Blocking ads definitely doesn't help the site get paid, that's what I was talking about above.

    For the same reason, it's probably not doing any meaningful "poisoning" either.

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