I do not believe in doors. Does that mean that I think that they should not exist or that I think that they do not exist? Yes actually!
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I believe I'll block op
Yeah, of course they do. They literally form the cornerstone of your worldview. If you change someone's beliefs, you change how they see the world. That sounds pretty damn big and important.
Because as Terry Pratchett astutely notes in the Hogfather belief is what makes the human society possible. We invented justice, mercy, duty, laws, money etc. They exist only because we believe in them. Some beliefs make the world better, other ones worse, and we should try to emphasize the former and minimize the latter.
My dogma defines my in-group, and my in-group can’t be wrong because then that would mean that I am wrong, which I categorically can’t be. And even if I was wrong, then I would no longer be part of my in-group. Therefore, your science and logic and proof must be wrong if it contradicts my dogma.
Okay, but what about your catma? Does that define your naptimes and your need to make people believe that you must've meant to smash your face into the table leg after darting through the house?
Ah, so it's a narrative control thing. Controlling the narrative (including the narrative of me, my ego or whatever) is important.
Well this begs another question. "Why is the narrative so important"?
I mean, we stand in the midst of a constant hurricane of sights, sounds, thoughts, vibes and nameless sensations, but the narrative gets this primary role.
You gotta ask why.
They do indeed.
My parents are deeply religious, but have never figured out that it's my siblings and I who actually answer their prayers.
I believe in science. I believe in justice, equality, and freedom. I believe fascism and capitalism is detrimental to humanity.
I do not believe in ghosts. I do not believe in gods, angels or demons. I don't believe in an afterlife. And I don't believe corporations are people.
Well that's unoriginal.
I don't believe in originality. There is nothing new under the sun.
Well that's a safe position. Otherwise you'd look like a right schmuck.
Youre an intensely irritating person, is that your goal?
Beliefs lead to actions. Actions affect others. It's not super complicated.
Well, they are.
They define one's view of the world, your paradigm.
That depends on the person.
You perceive a thousand things. Sights, sounds, nameless feelings... as well as beliefs.
One can be guided by any of that. And one can treat any of that as central.
Whether or not one treats one's beliefs as centrally important appears to be a matter of preference or perspective. Or something .
You are lumping together sensory signals (feelings, sights, sounds) with the internal decision making of your brain (beliefs).
I think you are confused by the literal definition of belief, because as it is defined, a belief is anything you think is true, specially without literal proof. There's tons of stuff we believe are true without certain proof: math, science, memory to a certain extent...
Let me explain, not everyone is a mathematician, not everyone is a scientist, especially an absolute expert in every field. What people usually do is they it trust in people that are experts and they believe that what those say is true because they have proven it to another collection of authorities, and we believe that what those authorities are trustworthy because X. There's papers about it and I can looks them, but I and most people probably won't because I decided to believe in their words. That core belief on science, on the fact that the science as we know it is correct (which is again dependant on the interpretation of the universe we currently hold being true which we don't know...), is something people don't offer recognise as a belief, but it is.
What you believe to be true will affect how you process what you see, what you hear, and how you ultimately act.
It's important because it's the deciding factor of almost every actions you consciously take.
Let me say that I'm not, in no way shape or form, saying belief in a religious tone. I'm using the literal definition of belief of the dictionary.
For reference because I won't probably return to this comment, they way I see beliefs is similar to the philosopher Ortega y Gasset.
Yes, I am lumping them together. I see no need to distinguish them into internal and external for these purposes.
(But if I was going to distinguish them, I might at manipulability, portability, communicability. )
And yes, one may be guided and impressed by a sight as surely as an idea. None of these takes precedence over any other, naturally, as far as I can tell.
Ah quoting. All of the authority with none of the responsibility.
Good writers borrow, great writers steal. -T.S. Elliot
Neither of which is the act of quoting.
On the contrary, quoting is exactly the act of borrowing another's idea, but doing the courtesy of giving credit to the person from whom you borrowed it.
On the contrary
A borrowed idea stands on utility.
A quote stands on authority.
I was definitely not standing on the authority of Elliott, merely making use of his words and crediting him for it, so you are simply wrong.
You are totally standing on that famous name.
Quotation isn't high art perhaps, but it sure beats bickering pointlessly. What the hell lol
Okay, fair enough, you got me: I wrote his name on a piece of paper and was standing on it when I wrote that comment in order to absorb his authority. You win this Internet argument.
If you're drawing authority from it, that's on you. Sometimes you just like the turn of phrase and are giving credit.
Which is more important to you, the phrase or the credit?
Uh, what? I'll use a quote when it neatly captures what I was thinking, and credit it to the original author. The phrase is the important part I guess, but fair play to the author.
Is the phrase diminished if you leave out the author's name?
I always liked the line in Dogma about them, don't turn ideas into beliefs, you can change ideas easier than beliefs. Paraphrased and I understand how much it waters down the whole problem but I still thought the idea of it was nice. Listen and be open, you shouldn't always need to be rigid. Though mean there are still ideals I'm rigid about, respect, compassion and such. Though I always thought the idea was you thought about what worked best for everyone not just what people said you should do cause tradition.
Easily said. But the psychological power of authority is so big. Authorities in the role of leader, expert, and the authority of the consensus. It may very well be programmed into our biology to automatically obey and believe. We may find ourselves falling into rigid belief without even trying.
if a belief is a model/theory/assumption that a person will not change regardless of evidence against it, it is by definition a delusion.
If a belief is an opinion, it is a personal statement. Statements like “Vim is the best IDE” are really conveying the information “I prefer Vim over all others IDEs” which is a true statement.
If a belief is a hypothesis then the person holding it will accept if it ends up being wrong.
Only in the first and second cases do people usually place importance on their beliefs, and typically, only the first case leads people to harm others or themselves with no way to convince them to stop.
To generalize it, I'd call a belief "an idea that you are attached to". And it bears upon your more general blob of beliefs, thoughts, memories, etc accordingly. Like a constant among variables in the midst of an algorithm.
There's something to be said for practicing detachment, too. Or rather the impermanence of things.
The word for established assumptions is “axioms”
Definitions are kind of the most fundamental axioms. Abstracting things helps us build with them and they’re true because you say they are.
We use axioms in models to derive new theorems/information. But that is often what makes us resist changing them. If you build your other assumptions on an axiom, you have to rethink all those assumptions or even throw them out when it gets proven wrong.
However, attachment to a belief, holding to an assumption even when it’s been proven wrong, is called “delusion” and yeah those beliefs tend to be the most destructive
In my view, beliefs are important. To me, a person is built from their beliefs.
Beliefs are mutable and can change for all sorts of reasons, at all sorts of speeds, and in all sorts of ways. They're not permanent, but I do think they're fundamental to the character of a person.
Read the book Sapiens.
Being able to believe in fiction is what allows humanity to function.
Belief isn't inherently bad you can believe in observational facts. It's faith that's dangerous. Any system that requires you to maintain beliefs without observable facts or in the face of negative confirmational facts is a problem.
I think it's weird that people even have beliefs. Belief is a dirty word to me.
Because everything we can say about reality is through the human perspective and the construct of language. We believe that this can yield us truths. But its just a belief. Our human-ness might just as well blind us to what is actually true. And as such, most of everything we think we know is based on belief. There is no escaping this problem.
Ahh, now that's an interesting idea. Beliefs are important because they are communicable. So belief gains weight from its social significance. As society is powerful then so are beliefs.
So a man outside society, a hermit, might find his beliefs falling away.
Yes. And also explains why worldviews are so different between cultural, linguistical and geographically different groups of people.
Even though we're becoming more and more unified, through the internet, through logic systems like maths or science in general. This is not to be mistaken for truth. Western scientific ideology specifically has as unspoken 'truth' that when ideas 'win', they are more valuable. While English, our logical rules, our ideologies are winning not because they are true but because they are believed more, or over, other languages, logic systems and ideologies.
Ofcourse these systems of beliefs create opportunities and knowledge for people. Don't mistake my dismissal of truth for disaproval.
The more I think about it, the more I realise how less I understand this word.
Yes and I believe this isn't really a showerthought
So defensive. I believe that I have struck paydirt.
Judging by all the vaguely hostile comments, you seem to have struck a chord here.
All I know is that nobody knows shit.
Nonetheless we definitely get attached to certain ideas. For various reasons.
But more than that, getting attached to certain ideas (believing stuff) is widely considered to be normal, right, healthy and necessary.
So you gotta ask why that is.
You definitely assumed that the message you typed could be understood by a random stranger and be delivered through a series of wires and rocks that can think, and possibly sent over magical waves which cannot be seen. Maybe it's all just your or my imagination.
What does that imply? I want the complete statement here.
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