stay woke (quokk.au)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/peoplemastodon
 

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[–] 53 points 9 months ago (29 children)

Not that I doubt it, I don't, but uhhh...

Source? Please?

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  • [–] 29 points 9 months ago* (16 children)

    just read the epstein files for yourself

    i use https://epsteinfta.com/

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  • [–] 45 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    that's like saying my source is in a book in the library. not really useful

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Well when the whole book is about that one thing…

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    The one that was linked. I know it’s not a book. I was using your own analogy.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    are you aware what analogies are?

    you didn't link a book, but the whole library.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Okay so then again. It doesn’t matter what book I choose as a source. They are all about what the post is about.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    So cite which documents support the claim. If it’s so easy it shouldn’t be hard to do. You’re basically replying to a statement of that’s illegal and being asked to cite what is illegal by saying reference all of the legal caselaw. It may be technically correct but it’s useless. There is a reason academics and legal scholars say reference paragraph x of book y etc. if you can’t provide easy examples why would I buy your claim?

    Put up or shut up.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Since the evidence for the claim is, according to you, omnipresent in the documents, it should be easy for you to point to just one single specific document that supports your claim. Can you please provide just one?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    What are you doing? What do you gain from this?

    I had to check your post history because your behavior in this thread legit made me think you were a nazi. I'm not saying you have to believe things blindly, but like... seriously, what are you getting out of this?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    If me asking for a source for something makes you think that I'm a Nazi, you need to seriously reevaluate the way that you interpret behaviors.

    What I get out of asking for specific sources is, hopefully, specific sources. The reason why I want specific sources is so that my beliefs can be based on fact, rather than screenshots of posts on social media. I am extremely wary of blindly believing things just because I want them to be true or because it fits my worldview as is. That is a dangerous path which leads to a lot of misconceptions and stupidity. It is exactly the kind of behavior that we see among the Nazis and so many other people. So as part of my continued effort to avoid being like that type of person, it is crucial that I only believe things that I see evidence for.

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  • You need to consider the way you look in public. Asking for a source is not the problem.

    I cannot tell the difference between your contempt for people who are stupider than you and someone else intentionally sealioning or JAQing for the purpose of distracting or deflecting criticism away from the global pedophile ring. Your aggression is what I take issue with.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    i was wondering if the people who weren't aware of this were holed up in facebook or reddit, but i guess diet-reddit makes sense too.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Can you provide a single specific document that even suggests evidence of the OP's claim? If not, then what is your "awareness" based on? A Mastodon post?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    lemmy keeps giving me lessons on how uninformed people are, both willfully and accidentally.

    i chose to believe that's it's the latter here and urge you to pay attention to the epstein files where it pertains to 4chan.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

    Okay, but as you know, the Epstein files are extremely vast and it's hard to find specific discussion of them anyways. So, since you are considering yourself much more informed, and since you presumably got that information from a specific document in the Epstein files, it would be nice of you to just provide that document here. Because I'm sure there are lots of Epstein files I could look through that pertain to 4chan that wouldn't tell me anything of value. And it's not really fair to expect someone to waste potentially 50 hours of their time..... Especially when you claim to already know what part is relevant. It feels like you're keeping your source a secret lol

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children)

    it's your own bare bones responsibility as a functioning adult in society to keep yourself informed, but i can do your job for you if you pay me for it; i charge $500,000 usd per page.

    if you don't want to pay you can either use the search function at the epstein release website or you can follow someone on social media who have decided to do this for free.

    i also recommend updating/changing your current information sources if none of them made you aware of this already.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    Alright then, keep your secrets

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    freely available and open to the public secrets.

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  • [–] 35 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    And Qanon/Pizzagate, because -- say it with me, now -- it's always projection.

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  • Well, they were right to be outraged. We can only hope that some of them have the moral integrity to maintain some sense of (I cant find the right word) fortitude following the revelation that the perpetrators are "their people" and not a bunch of rich and powerful liberals.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Pretty simplistic. There is a whole system put in place by billionaires and their cronies in order to keep the plebs divided and fighting amongst themselves to distract from the general excesses and depravity of their lifestyle.

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  • [–] 26 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    I'm on the web since 90s and I saw this unroll first hand. The social media gave people immense power to organize and validate each other and it took a while for the billionaires to catch up but once they learned of this power they had no choice but to oppose it. They succeeded and now we generally treat social media as net negative and fight "the woke" for them using our own resources.

    It's not a unique, new problem. This what happens with every almost every new technology which starts as legit useful tool that gets captured by bad actors. This is why decentralization and societal hedging is important - we must move quickly, broadly and embrace new tech before the big battleship of doom turns towards us. Guerilla warfare on the bleeding edge is the best path forward!

    Thanks for coming to my ted talk 🙏

    Edit: actually a very relevant article just dropped on the verge that illustrates this through Epstein emails and how they were coordinating against #metoo movement https://www.theverge.com/tech/874721/epstein-thiel-musk-trump-metoo

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Not being a pedo is so woke

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I mean, who is surprised by this? Genuinely. Do you know anyone who is surprised by billionaires billionairing? Because I don’t.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Many Americans not only get their news just from American sources, they also limit to just their preferred propaganda source like a major network (fox, abc, CNN, etc) or nontraditional source (newsmax, Breitbart, Joe Rogan podcasts, Facebook, etc). It's the same as someone in Russia only listening to RT or a Brit only considering BBC, etc. If you only listen to one or two agreeing sources it's very difficult to tell what is being left out or distorted on purpose without perspective & understanding the biases of the sources they consume.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/2025/06/10/the-political-gap-in-americans-news-sources/

    https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/09/25/1-in-5-americans-now-regularly-get-news-on-tiktok-up-sharply-from-2020/

    It's just conjecture not supported by the article, but I suspect most Americans would say their 1-2 news sources are unbiased or very little bias as opposed to understanding how they are actually biased.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    ochestated by RUSSIA mostly, working with the billionaires, almost any comment you see online has been suspected of being a russian bot at some point. and if you look at where the bots are being created, mostly by russian accounts. which is why reddit allows thier history to be hidden now.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    The kremlin definitely pushed it because they benefited from it.

    But it’s not that simple.

    This is more a convergence of the interests of a lot of powerful actors.

    That means yes the Kremlin, but to a probably more significant extent, the billionaires, the corporations and much more.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    We lost the Cold War, it didn't end when the USSR collapsed. The task was to destroy the other's government without incurring nukes and Russia won overwhelmingly.

    Though after the Ukraine war seems like China's the only global winner in all this.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (21 children)

    Source? Like, I would love for this to be true. But how do we know it's true? Surely if it's so obvious it should be easy to provide one specific piece of evidence, rather than just gesturing broadly at the world and saying "it should be obvious".

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  • Epstein had a conversation with m00t, and the same day, 4chan put out /pol, the board that infected the rest of the site with the right-wing sentiment it's currently known for, in addition to being ground zero for basically all conservative neo-nazi culture today.

    This among many other things.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    In this thread, I found the Epsteinfta.com link to search the epstein files for text. I know Steve Bannon is one of the main architects behind right wing media strategy. I know people who are black are a common distraction in the USA, so I searched "Bannon" "blacks", using "blacks" here because that's how racists refer to people who are black.

    The very first hit is Steve Bannon discussing with someone how to improve Trump's image in 2018 by comparing him to Obama.

    The second result is a conversation on how to gain support by "wearing the name calling as a badge of honor". The name calling here being labeled "racist".

    This took 5 minutes and some brainpower.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Thanks for actually giving evidence, but to your point, if it only took five minutes and some brain power, then I would expect that the people making the claim in the first place should have been the ones to do it, since the burden of proof was on them. It's pretty annoying to act like it should be my responsibility to put the right search terms into that huge library of files, especially since there are plenty of other reasonable things that I might have searched while trying to find something to justify this anti-woke claim that maybe wouldn't have led to the same results as the one that you put in.

    I don't think that it's not much to ask that if people want to make a claim that they should at least provide the actual source for it, rather than just gesturing to a million files and saying "it's in there, find it, and if you don't want to find it, you're a piece of shit".

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    You know what, that's a fair take. I suppose I've been keeping up with this stuff more than the average bear, so connections that may seem obvious to me may not be to people who don't have that same knowledge base.

    I suppose the annoyed feeling comes from folks who have been keeping up with this stuff who feel like they have to keep proving that grifters like Steve Bannon are using words as weapons to gain power instead of standing by anything. Proof of right wing grifters being fascists keeps popping up, so it feels like playing whack a mole whenever someone asks for proof.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (15 children)

    I believe this post, like many others are correlating the creation of the /pol/ board on 4chan after moot had a conversation with Epstein or something.

    Acting like /pol/ and 4chan is solely responsible for the entire situation is just a vapid braindead take, much less the idea that a political board on a popular forum hangout is some meniacal master plan...

    Obviously all this Epstein shit is heinous af, but acting like he's the origin of all evil just fucking hilarious "this is your brain on religion" logic. That being said, Epstein would definitely make a good "Satan's avatar" in a story...

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago* (14 children)

    Firstly, what do you mean solely responsible, secondly, groypers, pepe the frog, wojaks, incels, the proud boys, whoever was running Ron Desantis' media accounts and throwing sonnenrads behind his head in promotional videos, and many people currently working for Trump right now have roots in 4chan.

    Frankly, I think you're getting a bit defensive.

    [edit] Oh, I always forget about QAnon. That's like the first one I should say. The capital riot was QAnon. That's 4chan, man.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    And? 4chan was a shithole. I don't know why I'd be defensive over it.

    I just thinking blaming edgelord neckbeards with terminal online syndrome for the current political landscape is a cop-out and naive at BEST.

    If that's a defensive position to take of 4chan your bar is extremely low.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Appropriately attributing blame to those who perpetuate it. It is possible that 4chan was a useful tool, but 4chan itself is hardly invested it keeping everyone divided to pull people away from actual issues.

    They also pale in comparison to the influence political leaders, mass media, and billionaires have.

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  • But the internet is mass media.

    Billionaires that want to influence people find them in places like Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, and yes, 4chan.

    The fact that 4chan is a wild west, rules-less zone is why nazis congregate there the most (or used to, Twitter is basically rules-less now), and that's why it was able to operate as a cultural think-tank.

    I take it back, I don't think you're defensive, I think you just find the idea of funny green frogs unraveling democracy too embarassing to consider.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    There is a lot of blame to go around but 4ch was the face of it and the place to foment, it's not a cop-out to suggest that in the same capacity GamerGate was the direct project of Steve Bannon there is a degree of "culture-bending" by people who see the culture's stress points. The scars go back to the foundation of the country sure, but people actively work to keep the wounds open and weeping. How do they do that? Were they supposed to take power through one-off wing nuts like Timothy McVeigh, Randy Weaver, William Luther Pierce? Those guys could be incendiary but they couldn't penetrate the culture itself, the right had to come up with a way to sell their shit in the 21st century. 4chan brought them all onto the information superhighway, merging the culture of Something Awful, Stormfront, and every contrian-filled anime BBS board. It doesn't all trace back to Epstein but it does all trace back to class war, white supremacy, sex trafficking, and patriarchal chauvanism, and these were the tools available to them.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    I think I agree with everything you said except that 4chan was the face of it. Even in the digital realm alone, there are far larger and far more toxic avenues, and one of the largest is staring at most everyone in the face every day. Facebook has been far worse imo than 4chan could ever dream to be, for the very same reasons 4chan is condemned.

    I'll concede that could be my subjective viewpoint tho based on my interactions with both of them.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Incels didn't originate with 4chan, 4chan just gave them a more visible home than they had previously.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (6 children)

    Culturally? They absolutely did.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (5 children)

    By that logic nearly everything on the internet came from 4chan. Like, substantial parts of internet culture actually started on 4chan and bled outwards from there when the channers interacted with normies.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    I don't understand what you're saying. "Substantial parts of internet culture started on 4chan and bled outwards," yes, this is what I'm suggesting.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    Any definition in which incels originate from 4chan is so broad as to be meaningless. Basically every single part of Internet culture that didn't exist prior to 2003 or became more prevalent after 2003 would also originate from 4chan. All of it.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    I have no idea what you're talking about, man.

    4chan is (or was; relevancy) a place that fosters extremely negative and nihilistic views about the world and the self because it makes people much easier fruit to pluck for conservative aims. This includes incels. I have no idea what you're upset with me about.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    If something that had already existed for 6 years when 4chan first opened can be said to originate from 4chan, then what can't? Hell, large portions of internet culture as you know it for good or for ill were actually born out of the chaos of /b/, but your metric for "originating from 4chan" seems to be "do I think of it as negative and/or nihilistic, if yes then it must have originated from 4chan" rather than anything about where something actually started from.

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  • Do you have a personal attachment to this issue or something?

    First of all, you could have just told me about Alana. Whatever, now I know about her, that's cool.

    Secondly, let's look at the terminology associated with incels for a second: chad, stacy, roastie, blue/red/black pill, foid, sexual market value, The Wall, mogging, lookism, looksmaxxing, bone smash theory, high T, soyboy, soyciety, beta-bux, beta orbiter, MGTOW, AWALT, branch-swinger, cock carousel, hypergamy, just-be-white, lay down and rot, ropefuel, hERo

    Now, I recognize that if we're going back to 1997, these will seem a bit anacronistic, but do you mean to tell me that Alana's website, a romantic struggle support group that she built "welcoming all genders," really has cultural ties to any of those terms above? That her website was the incubator for extremely pedophilic ideas such as "roastie" and "The Wall" are? I find that very hard to believe. But please, inform me.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago*

    So I read some of the stuff that has been popping up. He says some damning things but most of it just comes off as an idiot guessing and mouthing off to impress people.

    I don't doubt there's some shady things going on, I just don't think this guy was actually in the know. He seems like more of a henchman mostly in the dark instead of the mastermind that had a tell all over email.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I don't understand. This is just an image of a tweet.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    Now replace "anti-woke culture war" with "AI" and it still works

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Uhhhhh didnt we see Jepstein literally encouraging the trans epidemic? Not to mention Ghislaine Maxwell probably did a lot to make reddit the way it is.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    It may have also been the cause of the big woke movement

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