The Senate has passed a bill making Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) the U.S.'s largest interior law enforcement agency with funding for Donald Trump's immigration enforcement agenda higher than most of the world's militaries, including Israel's.

Pending its passage in the House of Representatives, Trump's bill could mean a massive increase in ICE funding as part of an immigration enforcement agenda worth $150 billion over four years.

This figure is more than the annual military budget of Italy, which at $30.8 billion, is the world's 16th highest defense spender for this year according to tracker Global Fire Power.

It is also higher than military spending for Israel, ($30 billion), the Netherlands ($27 billion) and Brazil ($26.1 billion).

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[+] 122 points 1 year ago (72 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Too late for that now..they'll just take all your money, house, claim you're not a citizen, force you to work for 1/256th of that you earn now and keep the bribe from companies that bought you.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (47 children)

    Leave the US. If you have expertise you'll be easily welcomed into most countries, if not, there is are a lot of countries you can still move to that are not police states. Either way you'll stop paying/supporting and supporting US fascism with your work. The immigrants your government is so eager to deport have been through worse.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Tyranny has taken over - staying is a choice to live in fascism. Fascism does not die from within, it does a slow death from being excommunicated from the world or it dies a quick death as the world responds to it's expansionist tendencies. It does not die because people stop voting for it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Don’t leave. It solves nothing

    It keeps you alive. Just ask all those Europeans who fled the bloodbath of the world wars.

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  • [+] 40 points 1 year ago (17 children)
  • [+] -30 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    People with far fewer resources than some of the poorest Americans make treks across continents. I'm sure most Americans could figure it out if they really wanted to.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Sure. We'll just start walking from the American continents to... Well, fuck

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Have you considered getting one of those floaty things with pushy arms that go in water?

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I was gonna say that you can't just row across the ocean, but apparently you can.

    If you gain the sponsoring for an ocean rowboat, you can then secure sponsorship for the 3-4 months-worth of food since restaurants and gardens are hard to come by in the ocean. I understand that fish live in the ocean, but fishing eats into your 17 hours per day during which you'll need to row. Also, trying to handle fish on the open ocean in a small boat is an incredibly risky maneuver. Even worse, once you catch the fish, you gotta set your boat on fire so that you can cook it and not get parasites.

    All told, it's significantly cheaper to just fly, but that's unhelpful advice to someone who just told you that they can't afford to uproot their life and fly to another country. You might ask, how can you not afford that, and the problem is that hiking across countries smaller than my state gives you opportunities to work odd jobs in exchange for shelter, food, and money. But since planes and airports generally don't hire random passengers, it puts you back in that "I'm fucked" boat that you suggested.

    Also, all this is giving your unserious comment the credence that you weren't talking about taking a gondola ride across the Atlantic.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I guess that's how most immigrants make it to the US?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No.

    Literally most fly in, and then just say they are here to visit, then stay.

    Your understanding of modern immigration is similar to what you see on Fox News.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Do you think land crossing don't happen? Do you think ocean crossings don't happen? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Alan_Kurdi

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  • [+] 33 points 1 year ago* (1 child)
  • [+] -18 points 1 year ago

    You are right. My comments shouldn't be taken as precise advise for specific situations, but I stand by the generalities. I'm general though, if a family with less than a grade 5 education can make a cross-continent trek in hopes of a better life, most US citizens are well positioned to immigrate elsewhere.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You know literally nothing about immigration, do you?

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Beyond personal experience and the experiences of colleagues, friends and family going to/from a wide variety of countries, and how different countries structure their legal immigration process, not much I guess.

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  • [+] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)
  • This is true but you’re only taxed by the US if the country in which you live isn’t taxing you higher already. So if you move to a gulf Arab state with no income tax yes. But most places in Europe? You won’t have to pay US tax since domestic tax will be higher.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    You only have to pay them if you move back to the US (and want to work). It's not like other governments disclose your finances to the US.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Absolutely not true. If you want anything to do with US banking, social security, Embassy services, you better pay up. And every bank you open abroad is literally required to disclose to the IRS that you have a bank account with them. Source: I live abroad.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    The idea being put forward is leaving the US and never returning.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Until you acquire a new citizenship and renounce your US citizenship, the US government affects everything you do, regardless of where you are. Just leaving with no intention of returning does nothing. Source: me

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    You only have to pay them if you move back to the US

    Specifically if you're a contractor simply working abroad. If you don't actually reside in the US and you earn foreign income /pay taxes for a year, you're not going to owe anything.

    That said, if you travel overseas for three months on contract, earn a ton of money, and come home to spend it, you have to report that in the US minus taxes payed abroad.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    There are too few places to escape to in modern society, given the rise of authoritarian globally. I was planning on Germany until the Russia/Ukraine conflict. Now I find it more prudent to stay in the U.S. and relocate to a low population area. For the handful of dense urban environments in the U.S. there are far more wide open spaces with no people.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Head in the sand is always an option, until it's not.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It’s all relative. It’d be just as easy to argue the head in the sand argument at an American who thinks they’re just gonna pack up to a random city in Europe and avoid the consequences of what’s happening globally. I understand we’re all just trying to feel like we have agency over our own lives and don’t exist at the whim of a handful of billionaires, so to each their own.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Fascism is always a possibility anywhere in the world. The difference is that it's here and now in the US. I sure as shit would be doing everything I could to not be there anymore if I were there. It's fucking scary enough watching it from Canada and I won't have any hesitation to flee if the tanks start rolling in this direction.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    I left earlier this year. I'm a tan skinned Latina trans woman immigrant, basically their #1 target. I'm still absolutely terrified for my friends and family.

    I truly hate that I'm still chained to the US via my citizenship. A part of me hopes they denaturalize me so I don't have to pay them shit.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Can't you denounce your citizenship? It's also not possible for them to force you to pay taxes on income you don't earn in the US - unless you want to return at some point. I hope you're some place safe that respects your identity now.

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  • The US is a bit special. It is the only state to require its citizens pay taxes to it on (regular) earnings abroad. Other places only tax earnings made inside their own borders.

    So to truly be off the hook for American taxes as a non-elite, you'll have to renounce your citizenship.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Then your government will acquire yet more debt. And if everything crumbles down for them, there will be your offspring paying for that debt and their taxes for generations.

    I don't know what's worse, honestly. I just know everyone needs to fight back and resist, and they'll get exhausted fighting everywhere in the world. But it they don't have to fight, they'll just keep doing their shit.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

    The government can just print money, they don't actually strictly need your taxes (see MMT). The only actual path is withholding labour and mass protests (with at least a credible threat of violent escalations).

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Printing money is how you get hyperinflation. You cant just print money without it flooding the market. If you do that too often, the money becomes worthless.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Or leave. Stop supporting the country in the most literal sense.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Leaving would make it worse. Every single person who wants to leave as a result of this is the opposition. Without us, they have free reign.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    If the majority of the intelligencia class leaves the US will be critically harmed in one of its most lucrative areas. The US has done an excellent job of attaching to talent over the past century, if that talent simply up and leaves it places the US at a disadvantage economically, socially and intellectually (importantly including science and engineering fields).

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is incredibly bad logic that you have constructed so that you can have the reality you want.

    Your simple solutions are like that of Elon Musk suggesting a submarine for a cave rescue just because you think it would be a cool way to do it. It has no backing of reality behind it.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    You're totally right, no other dictator has ever taken an oppressive position to their intelligentsia and those that remained in fascist nations have been super effective at degrading it from within... Just look at the USSR, Italy, Spain or Chile under their fascist leaders. They all were super supportive of their institutions of higher learning and those that remained stopped all kinds of atrocious government actions. They were all better off for staying put. /s

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  • [–] 98 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    That means this is their new military.

    Pretty clever if you think if it. They don't try to convince their current one but build one up besides them while starving them of their resources.

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  • [–] 100 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Building a paramilitary beholden to Party-aligned officials as a stopgap until the Party seizes total control of the actual military is boilerplate fascism.

    EDIT: And when they do seize control the military, it usually doesn't end well for the paramilitary.

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  • [–] 76 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    There's no way they need all those people and resources if they're only going after illegal immigrants. They're going to start disappearing their other targets too. People of Colour, Democrats, LGBTQ, scientists. Get in line. I hope you're ready for what we know is coming.

    First they came for the immigrants...

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    [–] 68 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Daily reminder to all ICE agents. By signing up for ICE, you have signed yourself up for a lifetime of fear and criminal liability. There are Nazi concentration camp guards that were tried for their crimes in their 90s. There is no statute of limitations on crimes against humanity. Your names are recorded; your deeds are known. And you will face justice for your crimes. And do not count on a blanket pardon saving you. Crimes against humanity are violations of international law that cannot be pardoned.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    fuck legal systems, we all know the next democrat will pardon them or refuse to prosecute them.

    they need to live in fear from decent human beings,

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    That’s something I’ve thought about a lot; these people are going to war with their society, and their and their family’s names and addresses are one data breech away from public knowledge.

    Fortunately the government is protecting them by mass layoffs and encouraging mass retirements from anyone involved in data security.

    My personal bingo card has the families of some these people dropped off in the chihuahaun desert if they piss off the cartels.

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  • Not all guards of concentration camps or SS members were prosecuted. That was also an unusual situation as the Nazi state and the SS ceased to exist and was occupied for decades.

    No ICE agent will be prosecuted for conducting arrests or executing warrants against illegal immigrants. Once mass torture, inhumane treatment, extralegal executions and such start, it becomes more risky for them.

    We don’t know how bad it will get yet or what comes after. In the best case Trump and republicans lose the next elections. A New Democrat government could simply downsize ICE and only prosecute a handful of bad apples. Remember what happened after Abu Ghraib.

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    [–] 52 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Gestapo. They're Nazi Gestapo. Treat them as they deserve.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'd argue they are more like the SS at this point. Consider: the point of the Gestapo was to police the German population and root out internal threats to the Nazis. The SS, on the other hand, were a military branch that were responsible for eradication of the "undesirable elements". I feel like the latter is a more fitting mold for ICE.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    The SS had many tasks. One of them was to protect the regime against coups from the army or SA.

    At the beginning the SA also ran concentration camps, the SS took them over soon.

    SS, Gestapo, and regular police were all under Himmler’s command via the Reichssicherheitshauptamt.

    Gestapo was formed from preexisting secret political police forces.

    Trumpism operates differently than Nazism. However Trump needs a loyal oppression infrastructure to build a more authoritarian system. ICE is on its way to enable that.

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