In a heated interview with CNN‘s Dana Bash on Sunday, Border Patrol Commander Gregory Bovino said his agents were the real “victims” in the fatal shooting of a Minneapolis protestor.

Alex Pretti, a 37-year-old Veterans Affairs nurse, was killed by Border Patrol agents on Saturday. In videos of the deadly altercation between Pretti and several agents, he can be seen placing himself between an agent and several women that he was shoving. Pretti is sprayed with a chemical irritant and then wrestled to the ground, where one agent repeatedly hit him in the head with the irritant’s metal canister. Pretti, who was legally carrying a firearm, was fatally shot by agents while on the ground.

DHS immediately painted Pretti as a threat, saying that officers feared for their lives because Pretti was legally carrying a firearm. Multiple videos of the shooting contradicted the official line that Pretti was threatening agents. On Sunday, Bash pressed Bovino for evidence “that he was intending to massacre law enforcement.”

When Bash repeatedly asserted Pretti’s right to carry his firearm, Bovino made the bold claim that Pretti forfeited his Second Amendment rights via his actions.

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[–] 154 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

The fascist will say anything, regardless of reality, logic, or even internal consistency, to advance his self interested power grab and all of the violence it requires. He has no moral code and no allegiance to law. He cannot be reasoned with doesn’t deserve that kind of deference. Once he achieves control, he cannot be voted out of power.

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  • [–] 250 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Weird thing is this is the “government takeover” the 2nd amendment nuts have been screaming about for generations. Not at all surprised that they’re mostly silent now. Also not at all surprised it their own political party who’s doing this.

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  • [–] 31 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    I keep seeing this take and it's half thought out at best. First of all, I don't think it's true. There are plenty of armed citizens not sympathetic to ICE in any way. They are reasonable adults who have not felt it necessary up to this point to engage in a last resort effort that is likely to endanger tens of thousands of people at minimum. You may think we are already past that point, and we may well be, but you can't deny that wanting to be sure it is necessary before taking up arms against their countrymen is exactly what a reasonable adult with a firearm should do.

    Second, if what you are saying is true and there are no reasonable citizens with guns then the logical course of action is to buy a gun, organize in your community, and practice your 2nd Amendment rights as you see fit. They don't just apply to conservatives despite what Bovino is trying to argue. Complaining about the past isn't going to change the future so if you see a gap, fill it.

    Now I don't know if you're American or not but I do see this sentiment from Americans on a regular basis and that is who am I addressing.

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I don’t think he’s saying the second amendment tells you use your guns to shoot people when there is anything you consider tyrannical government oppression, only that having the guns are supposed to preempt that problem in theory — and the theory is clearly invalidated.

    The fact that traditional second amendment proponents (the NRA) have backed away from that theory and now side with the proto fascist tyrannical government demonstrates the argument was always bankrupt and was never a principle in practice.

    That said — you correctly point out that there still room for people to actually start using said guns for shooting, which is indeed the logical next step. Putin is shitting himself laughing.

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  • [+] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Fires don't fear you rising up against them

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Guess that's why you have to actually use the fire extinguisher?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Exactly. The fire isn't going to think "gee sure are a lot of folks with extinguishers out there, I better not start burning anything or they'll kill me". Unless you elect a really stupid fire that knows it's going to be dead soon anyway and will never face consequences.

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  • [–] 56 points 9 months ago

    I don't think they meant "all gun owning citizens" when they said "2nd amendment nuts". I think they were talking about a particular type of person who bases their whole identity around owning guns to fight against the government.

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  • [–] 59 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    There was a lot more than just the 2nd amendment right that was being violated there.

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  • [–] 103 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 87 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, but the picture is obviously a casual tour of the Capitol. That's the lie they've told and lies before that and this is another round of lies people want to believe. And I'm sure I'll hear it spouted when I'm out and about.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    They were mostly peaceful, allegedly, and nobody got hurt (if you don't count the people that got hurt or killed).

    You're a terrorist assassin deserving of execution if you help a woman who was shoved over in the snow, but attempting to climb through a secure and barricaded door in the face of multiple people with their weapons drawn then being shot makes you a tragic victim worth of a multi-million dollar settlement.

    War is Peace, also

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  • [–] 46 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    At this point I think it's pretty safe to conclude that when the right-wing 2A guys argue that 2A is inviolable/shall not be infringed, they mean it only in the context of service to right-wing politics, not that it's a right that applies to anyone else. In other words, they support the notion of privilege, not rights.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    My dad has always said it'd be the Republicans who would take guns.

    They're working for it.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago

    California's gun-control culture started with a 1967 law (Mulford Act) designed to outlaw carrying loaded guns. It was specifically written to keep the Black Panthers from patroling their neighborhoods with loaded firearms.

    It was signed into law by Ronald Reagan.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I was actually surprised to see a lot of comments on r/conservative talking about how the stuff the feds are saying about the second amendment is wrong and unconstitutional, and a good number saying that the killing wasn't necessary, they'll ultimately support Trump and ICE over any kind of progressive though but it was interesting. Even the NRA posted about how Pretti was a legal gun owner and there should be an investigation before people jump to conclusions.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    This. Don't fall into the team based bullshit, this level of jackbootery should piss off everyone. If not for the red/blue bullshit I am sure that the vast majority of americans would rally together to counter the government overreach but instead everyone is doing the Two Minutes Hate.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    When the order to seize the guns comes, it will come from the right, and not the left. Those with money can have guns, those without, can't, no matter what party they belong to.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Never gonna happen in the USA.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    If MAGA takes permanent power, you can kiss your legal guns goodbye.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    No such thing as permanent power.

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  • [–] 46 points 9 months ago

    I hate that fucking smug face, where is a Lugi when one is needed.

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  • [–] 32 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I didn't realize constitutionally-enshrined rights were something a single appointed official could wave away simply by saying they "don't count."

    And even if the victim had broken a law (say, if he didn't have a permit (which he did)), then the legal recourse isn't a summary execution. He was disarmed, he was no longer a threat, and even if he had been carrying illegally (which he wasn't), the law says that he be arrested and granted due process in a court of law.

    These federal agents violated due process and the rule of law, and the victim didn't even break any laws.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I didn’t realize constitutionally-enshrined rights were something a single appointed official could wave away simply by saying they “don’t count.”

    IOKIYAR.

    This Pretti guy didn't seem like he was sufficiently identifying as a Republican...rights only belong to conservative Republicans.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Mind explaining the acronym? Too many permutations for me to try to think it through...

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  • [–] 31 points 9 months ago

    ICE agents carry weapons and citizens fear for their lives... so by their standards....

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  • [–] 29 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    That is the rhetoric the regressives have used incessantly to defend their rights to firearms. Now that the KKK and proud bois have been given guns and federal authority suddenly those rules don't apply anymore.

    Who couldn't have seen this coming other than most of us. The people I work with are 90% non white. They don't think this will apply to them. They don't like me talking about it. They think they can just keep their head down and someone else will take care of it.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    I mean, it's Charlie Kirk, but still, what a stupid thing to put in the Constitution if it's for that reason. What about a plebiscite to kick out some rogue government? Nah, let's give guns to the people so they can make a Civil War whenever they feel like it.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago

    "Rights aren't rights if they can be taken away. They're privileges. That's all we've ever had in this country: A bill of temporary privileges. And if you read the news, even badly you know that the list gets shorter and shorter" - George Carlin

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  • [–] 24 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The NRA and right wing gun culture has convinced a generation that the 2A is about your right to own a gun.

    The 2A is explicitly about your right to organize members of your community in order to defend your community, the fact that you need weapons for that means that you must also have the right to own weapons.

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  • [–] 47 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    This guy certainly is embracing the nazi lifestyle, he ever gonna face consequences?

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Quite a number of Nazis escaped prosecution. They had to be tracked down over half a century, and still a lot escaped entirely.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    Quite a few German Nazis were employed by the US Government after the war:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Operation Paperclip generally targeted people with an IQ above room temperature. No one in this administration would qualify.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Operation paperclip wasn't the important one. Which is why people seem to know about it way more than the important one.

    Operation Bloodstone was the important one.

    As Operation Paperclip was to Nazi scientists, Operation Bloodstone was to the SS.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    This administration is playing with fire by trying to blame this on the gun that the man was legally carrying and licensed to own.

    The 2A people in MAGA are not happy, there's a little civil war brewing in r/conservative between the bots and the 2A supporters.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Go look, the amount of people who are against this is equal to or outnumbering the ones trying spin.

    This 'he had a gun' angle is not going to cut it.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It took an innocent white man with a gun getting merc'd for the alarm to sound on these folk. Whatever it takes I guess, but that's a sad lot considering all the rights violations and death toll prior.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    It's sad, certainly, but I'll hold my tongue if it means gaining more allies to oppose this violence.

    We can get back to fighting about domestic and social issues once we make sure that we still have a functioning democracy, none of the other differences matter if that doesn't happen.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago

    You fucking Nazis are not granting us our rights....you work for us fuck head

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    The Right is coming for your guns.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Well and isn't that just what they accused the left (and the center) of doing? Full disclosure, I am a gun owning slightly left of center.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    2A nuts are showing themselves as the hypocrites the rest of us already knew they were.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Actually... Bovino is sending out a dog whistle to the real 2A nuts

    image

    Bovino gonna get hisself Kirk'ed

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    Man, I wonder if the second amendment set is finally realizing the right has always wanted your guns more than the left.

    Or did we forget "take the guns first"?

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago

    Cool. Do I get to decide which rights apply to Bovino and his bullshit army now? What he's doing doesn't sound much like "...support[ing] and defend[ing] the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." or "...bear[ing] true faith and allegiance to the same..." so his actions ought to have consequences too.

    Before the reply: No, I will not elaborate, fed.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    In that case, nazi fucks also have no rights.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    rights are a convenient fiction from the enlightenment era, when the Europeans were trying to atomize and analyze freedom.

    you're free to carry a weapon.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I am a lifelong supporter of the 2nd Amendment, but not a single issue voter. So no one can really place me politically.

    What bothers me most is fellow gun enthusiasts (cough republican gun nuts)... always say its a "God given right".....

    these events are going to be a brain melting contraction to their beliefs that the GOP supports them and that the 2A is immutable.

    The GOP did a great job of convincing the feeble minded that they are their supporters and guns are their greatest political topic to rally behind... Now trump is having a come to jesus moment for the party, as his DHS, FBI, and others in his administration are saying they will kill you if you have guns around them

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago
    [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Does anyone else not give a flying fuck what traitors say?

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Does the word "martinet" have any meaning to anyone here?

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  • Americans, show them your second amendment counts already

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  • [+] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago
    [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    If these officers "feared for their lives" in this situation, maybe we need some agents who aren't fucking cowards. I didn't realize MAGA knowingly celebrated cowardly men.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Have you met a MAGAT?

    They're all cowards.

    They talk a big game but if you ever even show them an ounce of resistance or defiance they turn tail and run. There's a reason they love guns so much, it's a fucking power totem/the only thing that makes them feel manly. They are feckless cowards and because they think them and their ilk are the only ones armed they can use it to get their way.

    They forget that some of us don't announce we're packing and will only use it as a last fucking resort. We're not bloodthirsty animals who wish to cause needless death, since we have fucking empathy, unlike them.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Rights are never forfeited, they are violated.

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  • [+] 3 points 9 months ago* (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Never seen a bovine more ripe for the meat packing plant. Not that I'd let any dog i care about touch the filth that comes from his carcass in particular.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Maybe I'll work toward some better Bovino fanfic. We've done him diving into outhouse nethers.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Boy needs a couple strong rights, a few lefts, and finishing uppercut to his idiotic head

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