top 46 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 69 points 9 months ago (6 children)

This time I want the credit, so I’m posting my prediction publicly while everyone still thinks it’s ridiculous: I predict that within 15 years Microsoft will discontinue Windows in favor of a Windows themed Linux distribution.

People have been joking about a Windows DE atop the Linux kernel for a while now buddy, too late for you to call dibs

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 40 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Has been predicted for almost as long as the year of Linux on desktop.

    Windows NT kernel was never an issue, Microsoft would encounter exact same issues they’re facing now since the pressure to monetise remains.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    It would be in line with their usual EEE, so totally not surprising.
    They don't give two shits about brand loyalty as long as line go up.

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    What standards would Microsoft EEE in this case? POSIX?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    they might ship a proprietary lib with their os, encourage developers to use it, then license it out of being distributed

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    I imagine it’d be more like Android/iOS. Lock down bootloader so you can’t tamper with the OS, enforce notarisation requirement so that apps have to go through them. But Microsoft can’t do that, they don’t have any users vendor-locked to their application store. Valve on the other hand is in a much better position to do this.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    @0x0 @codeinabox it wouldn't be EEE in this case. Because a Linux distribution is built up around thousands of packages from hundreds of various open source projects.For EEE to work, the entire base OS stack would need to be extended with features not becoming useful outside Microsoft's use. Such changes would first of all have a really hard time being accepted in upstream projects. And if they did, these projects would be forked if the last E phase in EEE is triggered. And then Microsoft would be alone with their Frankenstein distribution monster while the majority of the Linux users moves on to something better.With Linux, there is no single instance of control or power. If a project takes a path people don't like, it get forked. EEE requires Microsoft to cease full control of all the related pieces and components and kill the open source aspects of it.That's the advantage of open source licences. Once the source is out in the public, you can't retract the source code afterwards, then it just forks.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    "A Windows themed Linux distribution" can't really be "Windows themed" without some closed-source blobs and maybe even some backdoors sparkled here and there

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Android is a Linux distribution like that and once notarisation requirement is implemented it’ll be indistinguishable from iOS. SteamOS will also likely become gradually more like iOS to appease creators of popular multiplayer games.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I can’t imagine Valve making that kind of heel turn on their (mostly) open-source philosophy. They’re marketing their whole hardware line as your hardware to do whatever you want with, going closed garden after the fact would throw away a lot of good will.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago

    It would be very hard to imagine that Android would look as it does now 15 years ago when it was almost fully open source and AOSP had all necessities included sans device-specific firmware blobs.

    I haven’t seen any indication that Valve sells their Steam Machine as an open platform, more that they dishonestly advertise it as „runs all your Steam games” (but they don’t include Windows license to actually do that).

    Locking down SteamOS won’t appear as a heel flip when it comes because it’ll happen gradually. Introduce little friction here and there, slowly herding people towards preferred but optional measures, until they’re no longer optional.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    @mmmm @codeinabox Sure it can.Microsoft can distribute their Windows Desktop Environment for Linux in a repository they control. And that repo can even contain just the binaries, with their own proprietary licence. These packages can further have dependencies to other open source packages.If Microsoft ends up with their own Linux distribution or just mirrors an existing distro (like what Alma/Rocky does with RHEL, or Ubuntu with Debian) ... That depends on how much control they want over the Linux distro base OS.But they certainly have the possibility to add a Windows experience as an alternative to GNOME, KDE, Cinnamon, XFCE, etc, etc, building on top of a shared base OS layer. As well as providing WINE like layers to make existing Windows programs run in that environment.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    I mean they did switch to their own flavor of their competitor with Edge already so it wouldn't be a first.

    I just hope that is they do this they won't gain leverage to control the development of Linux for their own purposes in some way.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    Maybe. If they do it's going to represent a pretty dramatic shift away from backwards compatibility, which has always been the biggest defining characteristic of Windows. Probably not for Enterprise, but maybe for Personal?

  • source
  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    A little crazy, but not a lot crazy. ARM adoption may provide the spark necessary to ignite this fire.

  • source
  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    If they dont use wine, they'll sell you a subscription to a cloud machine running legacy Windows to run your legacy apps in. They already have this product Windows cloud pc is a thing

  • source
  • [–] 24 points 9 months ago

    Microsoft can't do funny things. Microsoft is a bloodsucking sociopath in a clown dress.

  • source
  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago

    It's called Microslop. Won't you ever forget it

  • source
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    I think if they were planning this at all, we'd see linux support for maui. currently their linux use has been very focused on only for devs and servers

  • source
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    How are Nvidia GPUs holding up on Linux at this point? Since the author specifically praised AMD and Linux.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Counter to the experiences I usually read about here, I put an Nvidia GPU into my Linux box over the weekend and it just worked immediately.

    Now I have no idea if I've been reading the troubles of a vocal minority, or if I should go buy a lotto ticket this weekend. Haha.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Same boat here, just works, both on my laptop and deksktop.

    In fact most of our company runs linux on laptops with nvidia gpu..

    The biggest problem i can think of is a distro that doesn't ship the drivers in their package manager. and then it's just following the description on the nvidia website how to install them for your distro.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    There's three types of NVIDIA failures on Linux:

    A- The niche thing that doesn't work for the group of people who use it.

    B- The specific card model that doesn't work.

    C- The distro that for some reason is a nightmare to install the drivers.

    Each motive individually is not a lot of people, but all together it is way much more than AMD. Hence the difference.

    Also, if you have a type A failure card, there's a probability that maybe it will be fixed eventually. But for type B, you're out of luck. There's a non-zero chance that your card will never work.

    Type C is entirely up to user error and distro effort. But it won't help with type A and B. If NVIDIA of fails you, whether you can install the drivers on your distro or not, is irrelevant.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    MS already has their own Linux distribution...

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Watch them be the ones to make Loss32

  • source
  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Not what I want to happen though.

    I want them to release Windows as free and open source software. Windows is on a purely technical level not a bad OS. If it were FOSS, we would get dozens of excellent distributions of it.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Windows IS a horrible OS at the technical level. It seems okay-ish from a non-technical perspective. Everything just below the surface is absolute junk. There's a reason it's the most exploited piece of software in history.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    I remember reading a post from an intern there about why they switched to using a browser for the start bar and windows settings UI: the code was just layers upon layers of friction requiring conversion from C++ to some intermediate format into another one and back. Making a simple change would take days if not weeks.

    Ad now that they want to rewrite millions of lines of C++ into Rust using AI to rewrite all of winblows in Rust, it's going to get much worse.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    I'd be very, very nervous about using AI for a project that big.

    One of the biggest issues with AI, when it "works", is that it's incredibly hard to catch its errors. We have layers of cognitive biases around content that appears "written well" is most likely authoritative.

    That means LLMs sound very authoritative, since correct structure is something LLMs are very good at. LLMs can write text that uses advanced vocabulary and complex sentence structure correctly. Similarly, it can write well laid out code with detailed comments and include an explanation for how and why the code works.

    It all looks really convincing. It takes significant attention and effort to critically analyze LLM output to notice the errors it makes, and it's very easy to forget that the LLM is categorically incapable of understanding your prompt or its output—LLMs don't understand anything! They're just advanced word (token) prediction machines.

    So, on a project the scale of refactoring the entire Windows codebase, with pressures to do the work quickly, the results are very predictable. They are going to introduce a lot of errors. And end up with incompatible spaghetti code that's incredibly inefficient.

    (Somewhat technical example: Anyone who's studied algorithms/computer science knows how easy it is to write functional code that scale terribly because of missing a small logical step that makes one factor of code operate in linear time instead of logarithmic time. Multiply that by a few other factors in the same function and your code balloons from n or log(n) time to n² or even n³ time.)

    We're witnessing the beginning of the end of Microsoft as an OS company.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    We're witnessing the beginning of the end of Microsoft as an OS company.

    Keep going. The faster the better. Imagine if billions went into Linux and opensource every year. It could be way better. The only thing I'm afraid of is companies starting to decide the future of linux. Everything would die in committee or they'd try and enshittify it to the max by adding proprietary kernel modules, filesystems and whatever else in order to get an upper hand.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago*

    There are some good ideas in there (the main one IMO is structured objects as the main form of IPC, instead of text), but the execution is really bad after XP and maybe 7. They stuck to a lot of legacy garbage in the name of "compatibility", but in the end it's an inconsistent mess of dozens of frameworks, and yet many old programs run worse than they do in WINE on Linux. Now with the advent of vibecoding the core components, it's pretty much over unless they literally start over from an old checkout.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago

    Heck, you can’t even use it to give a slideshow without risking Windows Update deciding to reinstall your whole OS mid presentation! Ask me how I know.

    There are several ways to prevent that. There's a lot of valid criticism to be made about windows but it's hard to take someone seriously who apparently doesn't know how to use the OS.

  • source
  • 11 comments in c/hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se view that post
    [–] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    It's a bit of a long shot, but I do see it as a very real possibility at least. Just look at what happened with Edge switching to Chromium.

    We've known for some time now how little a share of their revenue the desktop space generates, but that ignores how valuable the control over that space is. They'll let Windows become a loss leader to maintain that control.

    That said, as they continue to cut to the bone in order to drive profits, I can see them sacrificing the OS development even further. Branding familiarity is all that's required, Microsoft can just as easily implement their telemetry and DRM (through exposed TPM) in Linux as they could their own operating system. I've theorized this myself, I think a first step would be releasing some honest to god, official Linux binaries for Microsoft Office (excuse me, Copilot) in order to get that telemetry and TPM/DRM enabled on your system.

    I'm not willing to conjecture on the exact probability of it coming to pass, but I think it would be foolish to not start taking up at least somewhat of a defensive position in allowing these corporations into the Linux space were they're just gonna do what they do again. Even if Linux adoption begins to plateau, capitalism assures us once they've run their markets dry they'll expand however they possibly can to make line go up and that needs to be considered as a serious threat to FOSS.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    This is not all that's required. Backwards compatibility is also a hard requirement. If WINE does not model the precise bug that allows Office 97 (or whatever) to still run then you will not be bringing people along. The number of machines using some random piece of hardware whose most recent driver was written for Windows Vista is probably also a significant enough chunk to be a problem.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    That's a good point and I don't disagree. Like I said I think this is still a long shot, but it's interesting to try and consider the possibility.

    I'd argue with the way they're pushing Windows 11 and the hard TPM requirement (though usually not an issue in the enterprise world) they're already going down the path of sacrificing backwards compatibility.

    It's just enshittification again, corporations are customers of Microsoft at the end of the day and as enshittification goes, it will see Microsoft generating all value away from the customers and for themselves. This long tail of backwards compatibility has been an albatross around their neck and I think there's only so long they're willing to tolerate the cost of it. I don't believe the respect for their corporate customers exists much more than that of the average consumer anymore, do you?

    Modern corporations don't even have that issue as much, so many of them are already relying on SaaS for a large part of their infrastructure. Legacy industries are more of a problem but if you need to virtualize some AS/400 shit, Azure already has you covered: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/architecture/example-scenario/mainframe/ibm-system-i-azure-infinite-i . They're going to wield their market dominance as a cudgel and it's going to be your problem to adapt.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    They will sell a laptop so secure that not even the owner is allowed to use it?

    Their single sigh on will only work if you recite the entire alphabet backwards in the key of the password while making love to a nun who only speaks French and Puerto Rican Spanish during a full moon while holding a Chihuahua who is eating taco bell?

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    I have been saying this for years 😂

  • source
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    That's hardly original, I first heard that theory floated when WSL came out.

  • source
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    This is just the same "Year of the Linux Desktop" copium regurgitated.

    I love using Linux, but there functionally is nothing wrong with Windows either. Much of the world is happily using W11. And Linux has some very rough edges that aren't going away either, we just learn to live with them.

    🤣 2
  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    My primary issue with windows is that teams and outlook are getting less usable, and their "updates" regularly break my workflow and/or toolchains.

    It's done nothing but get worse and feel more predatory, there's ads in the start menu now. This wasn't a thing like 5 years ago.

    So I take umbrage with the sentiment that there's nothing functionally wrong with windows.

  • source
  • parent
  • 5 comments in c/pulse_of_truth@infosec.pub view that post
    [–] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I highly doubt they would ever move to Linux, but a custom BSD kernel doesn't seem that unlikely

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    That would be one way to transition to rust…

  • source
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Embrace, extend, extinguish?

  • source
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    What a weird take. Kernel diversity is a good thing and, lets be honest, windows kernel is in many ways superior to linux (and worse in others). All the problems come from the stuff microslop puts on top of it. We dont want chromium situation repeated with OS's.

  • source