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[–] 54 points 10 months ago (25 children)

The battery induction stoves are pretty neat. You can plug them into a normal 120v outlet instead of needing to rewire. Plus they can be battery backups in the event of power outages.

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  • [–] 37 points 10 months ago (16 children)

    How long can you run them before they run out of juice, though? I'm not sure I'd want to have "range" (pun intended) anxiety making Thanksgiving dinner.

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  • [–] 20 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    https://copperhome.com/products/charlie

    This one, as an example, has a 5 kWh battery. Having seen it in action it'll run itself for several hours unplugged. Pretty much indefinitely if charging.

    Remember, while induction ranges typically have high power ratings (10+ kW), they aren't actually running the whole time. They use a decent amount of power for the initial heat up, or if youre running all of the burners on high trying to boil several large pots of water, but realistically that's not how you use a range.

    Once the oven is up to temperature, it just kinda oscillates on and off, using comparatively little energy. Induction burners rarely run on full power because if you've ever cooked with induction you know you'll burn...everything... on high - they can really dump heat into a pan.

    Actively cooking a big dinner with multiple burners, you may average about 2 kW. With 1 kW coming in from the wall, that gives you about 5 hours of sustained peak cook time.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago

    A 5 kW peak stovetop is already more power than anyone can reasonably use with the amount of space available on a standard stove. Literally the only useful thing you can do at full power is bring water to a boil, because no actual cooking can happen at full power unless your diet is carbonized food. I have a 3.5 kW stovetop and it's perfectly adequate.

    After the first 15-20 minutes of cooking (bringing water to a boil while preparing some onions/garlic/sauce/seasonings) it gets very hard to keep using 1 kW. By that point you'll be leaving things on medium heat at most. I can't think of a single home-cooked meal that would require continuously drawing a full 2 kW from the stove for multiple hours, that's a truly crazy amount of energy. Even an oven at full blast won't use anywhere near 2 kW once it has reached 250 °C.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    We have a glass top 240v resistive heating range and it won’t run all 5 burners on high. The rear is a dual with burner (like for a rectangle skillet). I’m not sure you can run that and the full size burner on high at the same time. One of them won’t heat up.

    However the number of times of run into this in 10 years is maybe 3. It’s not really a problem and pretty easy to stagger things and simmer or keep parts of a meal warm in an oven or toaster oven.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    I have a 6-burner induction range and the burners are paired (front+back), if you set any front-back pair to high they only do like a 75% (which is still more than enough to burn your food). If you really need 3 things cooking on high you just do them across the 3 zones and you're fine. I've basically never needed to use this knowledge.

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  • [–] -3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (9 children)

    How long can you run them before they run out of juice, though?

    They run by either an electrical outlet or by battery. Another article stated the battery backup for its induction oven was one hour. Hardly worth being a feature.

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    One hour of being able to cook in the midst of a 12+ hour blackout can make a world of difference to hungry people.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    One hour of being able to cook in the midst of a 12+ hour blackout can make a world of difference to hungry people.

    There are plenty of meals that don't require electricity:

    • Salads & fruits
    • Tuna sandwiches
    • Deli sandwiches
    • Shrimp dishes
    • Peanut butter & jelly
    • Cakes, pies, pastries, breads
    • Pickled/smoked meats
    • Potato chips, popcorn, nuts

    Meals can also be cooked on a portable grill.

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  • [+] -6 points 10 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    I wouldn't assume the pumps moving that gas would keep working for an extended outage. If an outage lasts that long, it's usually over a big area.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    In the last 15 years, my electricity has been out for 10+ DAYS three different times. Gas doesn't stop.

    In fact, 2 out of 3 homes in the neighborhood have Kohler style natural gas whole house generators.

    There's plenty of reasons to hate gas, but that ain't one.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    Surely someone's got an example of natural gas service failing during an electric outage?

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Not really. The problem isn't that gas is somehow unreliable, it's actually that gas doesn't scale at all. It's a massive expensive infrastructure change and it's not flexible - you need gas. Electrical stoves can be powered by solar, wind, propane, etc; gas only works on gas.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Also some newer ones have temp sensors so you can keep a thing at the exact temp you need.

    I saw one with magnetic removable knobs to make cleaning easier.

    Also the outlet bits make installs drop-in for anyone, no electrician needed.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    Also some newer ones have temp sensors so you can keep a thing at the exact temp you need.

    I swear by induction cooking (for both soapmaking and food) for this reason - precise temperature control, even low temperatures that aren't even possible to get on a gas stove.

    • Setting the heater to exactly 40C means you can melt chocolate reliably, without the hassle of a bain marie
    • At 60C you can combine cetostearyl alcohol and vegetable oil for moisturizer without boiling off your glycerine
    • At 80C you can cook soap to trace without overcooking it and making it lumpy
    • At 100C you can evaporate moisture and reduce a sauce with minimal effect on other ingredients
    • At 100-160C you can cook a sugar syrup to a precisely desired level of concentration (as the boiling point goes up as the concentration increases) for making different types of candy
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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

    Just a shame how expensive they are. Copper stoves (the ones that won the contract in the article) start at $5,999. They're a small start-up without economy of scale on their side, but that still just seems wildly overpriced for an induction stove with a lithium battery stuck inside.

    To put that price in perspective, an electric convection toaster oven that can handle most oven needs can be had for $150 to $250, and a high quality countertop induction cooktop can be had for $116 (or less used), both of which run on standard 120v outlets.

    Standard 240v induction ovens stove start at around $850.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Induction oven? How does that work? Is it better than a classic electric oven, does it 'just' heat up faster?

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  • [–] 34 points 10 months ago (13 children)
  • [+] -13 points 10 months ago (12 children)

    I did not know this exists and I love the idea. However, the author clearly never has used an induction stove: “Because of this, they are more efficient than typical electric resistance stoves and also safer because the surface of the oven doesn’t get very hot.”

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    I actually thought both of those points were true.

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    I have induction and this is certainly true. The surface only gets heated by the pot on top. So only after a long time does it get very hot and never even close to a regular electric stove.

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  • [+] -16 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Okay, go ahead and touch it, if it does not get “very hot”.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    That's literally one of the advantages of induction over resistive. Resistive heat an element, that heats the pot. Inductive use a magnetic field to induce a current in the pot. That electric current then heats the pot directly.

    The only heat in the stovetop is either bleed back from the pot, or resistive losses, which are quite low.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Wanna make a bet that I can boil some water and safely touch (for a short time) the stove top right after? I'm willing to bet a lot of money. 'cause I've done it. And because of physics.

    The pot is 100 °C (because of physics), which is heating the glass. Glass is not as conductive as metal, so it's not as dangerous to touch. Touching a pot of boiling water is not pleasant, but not very dangerous if you immediately remove your hand, and touching the stove is even less dangerous than that. Completely different ball game to vitroceramic resistive heating which heats the stove itself well above boiling temperatures.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago

    Big lol. Compares boiling water to frying. The author of the article was generally speaking. And by generally they were saying the surface does not get very hot. Yes. It does not get 800°C. But it still can and will get to 300°C. Is it less? Yes. Is it still fucking hot and causing severe burns? YES.

    Stop saying it is safe, because that causes people to believe this and get harmed for no fucking reason.

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  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Nope. Had induction. The ceramic gets just as hot, because you heat up the metal on top and the metal is touching the ceramic, thus it gets hot. Enough to cause severe burns.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Sounds like you didn't have induction but had a normal flat top stove with electric burners.

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  • [–] 25 points 10 months ago (14 children)

    This is important for those replacing gas or propane stoves and don’t want to add the cost of running a 240V line that most resistance and induction ovens require.

    OK this makes sense. It answers my WTF reaction at the thought of a battery-backed range.

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  • [+] 13 points 10 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

    For real? In Europe one can get induction for less than €200. Significantly less. And a "real", full size one, 4 spots. And adding an oven adds additional €200.

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  • [+] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    You're right, I've updated my post.

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  • [+] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    For comparison, in Australia, gas and induction are at price parity (a budget 4-hotplate setup costs about $200-300 either way). You can buy a single-plate induction cooker for $50 that plugs into the wall and has a temperature configurable from 60-200 C.

    Edit: Stopped markdown converting Centigrate to Copyright symbol

    PS: Also, electricity is cheaper than gas in Australia, because we have so much rooftop solar, electricity is soon going to be free during the midday peak.

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  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child)

    I also see those batteries going bad and complications in the future with such a complicated system rather than a dedicated 240v circuit.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    What makes it seem convoluted? It's slightly more complex than a standard electric stove, but we have and use countless devices on a daily basis with this technology. Very rarely do they have any issues with the charging/discharge circuit.

    Yes, the batteries will eventually need to be replaced, and it could be an issue during Thanksgiving (etc) when a ton of power is needed all at once. But I really think you're overestimating the usage it will get.

    In any event, this is why they're running it as a pilot. Any real-world issues will come to light before a larger rollout.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Has the text changed? I can't find any reference to 240v

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    I think this is the new section?

    The winning submission came from Copper, a California-based company which designed a battery-equipped induction stove that plugs into a standard 120-volt outlet. That means the units can be used in existing NYCHA kitchens without the need for major electrical upgrades.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    What's so hard about 240v since it takes a thinner wire compared to 110v?

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  • [+] 12 points 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago*

    Still sounds easier than fixing old gas plumbing, and again, the current is lower so the wires are not thicker they're thinner.

    And I'm certainly not keen on running a big battery that will be next to heat and needs replacement approved by landlord every 3-5 years, plus having to own expensive pans.

    What do I know, I never owned electric stove and I don't want one.

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    [–] 23 points 10 months ago (17 children)

    I just got an induction cook top and it’s amazing. WAY more efficient than alternatives, better indoor air quality as compared to gas. One problem: can’t cook if the power is out. Good ideas all around.

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  • [–] 23 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Some gas stoves require electricity to continue operating due to electric safety sensors that shut the stove gas off if the flame goes out. They too would be useless in a power outage because the valves would not open. So it’s not just electric stoves that would be out of luck.

    If you have room to store one, a used camp stove and gas cylinder are fine for basics. No need to buy a fancy new one. Or even a gas bbq grill.

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    Don't forget about the electric ventilation being out if theres a power outage. You don't want to cook with a gas stove indoors with that off.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Regulations in my country require that the ventilation doesn't rely on any device, it must be some hatch you can't close. I'm pretty sure it's the same elsewhere in the world, it's too dangerous otherwise.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    How often does your power go out that this is a major concern?

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I would just use my camping stove or BBQ if I had to due to an extended power outage. Runs on anything that will burn pretty much.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    I mean that's my play. If you don't have power for an extended time then you also don't have refrigeration, or much else.

    "Hurricane" parties where you have to eat all your food and drink all the beer before it gets warm.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    You'd be looking at another 2-3k but you could get battery that can support that (and other things in an outage)

    That starts you down the rabbit hole of okay well what about solar panels to charge it in an extended outage...

    Also not practical for so many people.

    Really a microwave or single plate induction would be better for outage and cheaper battery.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    There are lots of things you can't do without power, how bad is your power grid that you need to plan everyday life around powercuts?

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    I'm seeing a lot of derogatory comments exactly like this shitting on the power grid. Either there's a bunch of southwestern kids on here who never sat through a storm in their lives and can't imagine weather which impacts infrastructure, or the mockery bots are in play.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    It’s winter in the northeast, and it’s been pretty brutal, so power has gone out repeatedly. I’m not planning around them, I just want to cook in the event there’s a multi day outage. And there’s been two this year.

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    As an added benefit besides the environmental ones - you can't blow out a wall and collapse a house with careless use of an induction cooker. :)

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    All it takes is someone not knowing how to handle a grease fire, and you can make one of those on anything called a stove.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago*

    I don't know what you're trying to convey with this.

    Also, very unlikely. You need a source of ignition to start a fire. So unless someone is letting grease get so hot that it is ignitable, then lighting a cigarette within inches of the, again, very hot grease. Then the likelihood of starting a grease fire with an induction cooktop is near zero.

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago

    It's also a safety upgrade, as the risk of fires is much diminished.

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    I'd consider the health benefits a bigger benefit than the energy savings. Less chance of getting asthma and/or cancer is a pretty big boon.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    And just yesterday people were arguing with me here, on lemmy, that induction is too expensive. There are literally single plate cook tops for like $50! And how expensive do you think the cancer will be?

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

    I picked up a used/open-box Duxtop induction burner to avoid using my gas stove, and it works amazingly well. The only downside is that most countertop induction burners have relatively small coil sizes, so with bigger pans, like my 12" cast iron frying pan, the outer part of the pan doesn't get hot enough to brown things.

    As a solution, I'm planning to pair the induction cooktop with a separate standard glasstop coil burner that has a much larger burner size for my bigger pans (and for my older pots that aren't compatible with the induction).

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Maybe if we go for 1,000,000 pilot programs we can piecemeal sneak ourselves into some kind of real change.

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  • [–] [S] 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    The plan is to do a limited-scale pilot, then do 10,000 apartments once a smooth process doing the upgrade is in place

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    The video of the stove setup seems great till they get to the part that you have to connect your stove to WiFi and pair it with their phone app. This means I'm never buying the Charlie stove.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    If it was just a standard Matter device, I’d be fine with it. But fuck one off apps for smart devices. They are always shitty, and always get neglected or abandoned.

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