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[–] 82 points 10 months ago (10 children)

This feels like a bit of a straw-man. In my youthful nonsensical cross-franchise pissing-match days, we pitted the Enterprise versus a Star Destroyer, or at least some other capital ship.

Unless you were asking which one was cooler, in which case the Falcon wins every day and twice on Sunday.

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  • [+] -22 points 10 months ago* (9 children)

    Yah, because you could drive it. Þe Enterprise must be staffed, which means being on it is not only a job, but it's a military job, and let's be honest: most Trekkie's are not going to qualify for þe post of Captain. Which means you're going where someone else wants to go, and doing what someone else wants you to do.

    Þe Falcon is Freedom.

    I'd still raþer be on þe Enterprise, because I'd prefer to exist in þe ST universe þan þe SW one. But you can never "own" þe Enterprise. You only operate it wiþin a vast military support network.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    I'm pretty sure Geordie "owns" The Enterprise D in Picard.

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  • [+] -8 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    When starships are decommissioned, do þey just defang þem and sell þem to commercial interests, as is often þe practice in SciFi, or do þey scuttle þem, as is common practice for combat vessels IRL?

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    I dunno what the standard practice is, but Geordie has a museum of fully functional, and apparently armed, ships. At the very least he rebuilt the Enterprise D over the last 20 years, and managed to get her operational from just the bridge with a command crew only. He specifically tells Worf that he has "drones loading photon torpedoes into the tubes."

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I'm sure it's to make him appear impressive, but I would find it boþ more believable (resource cost alone) and endearing if þe fleet were 1:100 fully functional scale models, like what Tendi and Rutherford were building (which was more like 1:350).

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    He basically admits that he's been picking over both battlegrounds and boneyards to create these 1:1 replicas. He said that the Saucer Section of The Enterprise had to be recovered because of The Prime Directive. Apparently there was a native pre-warp species on the planet they crashed the saucer section onto, in ST Generations. The nacelles, pylons, and warp core came from the wreck of the NCC Saratoga (?). I suspect that would be the entire Battle Section of The Saratoga, since the Battle Section of The Enterprise was thoroughly destroyed. So that would include the main deflector dish, main engineering, the engine room, and something like 14-17 decks of the ship, as well as all their shuttle bays. The Captain's Yacht doesn't count as a shuttlebay, just a ridiculously fancy shuttle that they never used in the shows or movies.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Wow, great summary, þanks! It still seems a fabulously resource intensive effort. Even post scarcity, an individual commanding (requesting? Requisitioning?) þat amount of manpower, materiel, and energy is impressive.

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  • [–] 39 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    The millennium falcon is shit even in universe

    You came in THAT thing??

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    The millennium falcon has a fuck ton of modifications made to it that actually make it a good ship. The issue is that it's all slapped together redneck style so it's very unreliable. Han's claim that it's the fastest ship in the galaxy is not actually that far off. It has a Class 0.5 Hyperdrive, which is the fastest hyperdrive in both canon and legends (with a few very obscure and circumstance-dependant exceptions, like the Jabitha and Aing-tii).

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Ok. So I guess Leia think it's shit because it looks badly put together

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Aaaand doesn't it constantly require maintenance due to this?

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago

    The millennium falcon is essentially an old Cessna plane crammed full of equipment from a military jet, held together by duct tape, spit, and good vibes. It is constantly breaking down because everything from its armor, to its engines, to its power core was never designed for a ship that size. But when it does work, it punches WAY above its class.

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    The star wars universe as a whole is supposed to be in the dark ages after the glory and progress during the High Republic they are stuck/regressed, which is why everything looks like it's cobbled together

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  • [–] 27 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    In Star Trek, their run-of-the-mill, rarely discussed deflector is doing way more work than anything in the Star Wars universe. The one exception is the world-ender planet lasers which have been a big plot point in too many films and STILL have no plausible means to exist IN THEIR OwN UNIVERSE!

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  • [–] 32 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    The one thing Star Wars has over Star Trek is absolutely absurd levels of energy generation and storage. The thing about the construction of light sabers that impresses people in-universe is the Khyber crystal, not power cell running it which apparently is a palm sized terawatt fusion generator. That is why ships like the X-wing are still useful in combat. Even at their size, they can carry enough firepower to punch through a lot of armor and force shields.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    In a universe where magic is real.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago* (6 children)

    Let's be very clear, "magic" exists in StarTrek, too: Q is literal god-level magic. There are telekinetics, empaths, and hiveminds. At least one species has the capacity to mentally create realistic illusions taken from a subject's mind, while others will keep you trapped in your own nightmares for what feels like centuries. Hologram programs are solid and are, multiple times, shown to have the capacity to achieve sapience. In star trek, the magic follows rules. Usually not very well-thought-out, but the feeling that there is an explanation behind any phenomenon is the core conceit of the "exploration" fantasy of Star Trek.

    So, saying "in a universe where magic exists" belies the real difference: "in a story where the explanation of phenomena is not a priority, only the spectacle and metaphor of the phenomenon matters."

    The giant space lasers are never explained, because their explanation would not suit the desires of the storytellers.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    That's just sufficiently advanced technology.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

    Ah, but unfortunately, the great Lucas, in his infinite, unquestioned wisdom, managed to establish that the force is ALSO simply a sufficiently-advanced evolutionary response to a pre-existing fundamental force of the universe, mediated by whatever the fuck "midichlorians" are supposed to be. You're missing the rest of the quote, which is telling: "sufficiently-advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". The biconditional applies here: "magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently-advanced technology".

    You can't draw a line. Just because the random layperson of Tattooine has no explanation for the force, doesn't mean that there isn't one. Just because we're told that there are truths humans can't comprehend which allow the Q to break every law of reality, that doesn't mean that their powers appear or act in any way less-miraculous. The difference is that, in Star Wars, the writing of the science fantasy demands the mysticism (which is why midichlorians are such bullshit), while the science fiction of star trek demands an explicable nature, even if we don't get all of the answers.

    Edit: Also, are you trying to argue that literal psychic abilities are somehow technology? They literally give as much explanation for those in star trek as they do the Force in star wars.

    E2: Biconditional, not "bidirectional"

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  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    You just pulled "th bidirectional" out of your ass.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    If by "my ass", you mean "the transitive property of equality", then sure. My ass is a turing-complete logical computation engine.

    "Indistinguishable" means that, for all tests available, the signal of A = the signal of B.

    Or were you asking me to explain what a bidirectional relationship is?

    EDIT: AHH, Sorry, Bi-conditional

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_biconditional

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  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago

    The Falcon is a corvette and the Enterprise is something like a cruiser or a battleship, we're talking apples and oranges here

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago

    This is like asking "Who would win in a fight, a submarine or a jet?"

    The two combat styles aren't comparable. Star Trek is based on naval battles, in fact, IMHO, the very best OG Trek episode, "Balance of Terror" was based on a WWII set submarine combat novel and movie called "The Enemy Below":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enemy_Below_(novel)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enemy_Below

    Lucas specifically wanted Star Wars to emulate air combat and dogfights.

    https://www.popsci.com/from-wwii-to-long-ago-and-far-away-fighters-that-inspired-star-wars-and-their-modern-descendents/

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    I don't think vintage van is apt.

    I think I'd go more with the something like a juiced up truck, or maybe hummer.

    However, you could make the more apt comparison by sticking with ships.

    The falcon was a smugglers' ship, so it would be more like one of those fast cigarette boats drug runners use (or used to at least) rather than a car at all.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    A better comparison would be a run down small tramp steamer that someone lives on, slapped guns on, and has smuggling compartments installed against a fully staffed naval ship on a research mission.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Only reason I went with the speed boat was the claim to fame of the falcon being able to veritably rip through the Kessel run. Depending on the interpretation of the whole "12 parsecs" thing, that implies either high speed or superior maneuverability. Plus, in some of the combat scenes, the falcon is both fast enough and nimble enough to hang with ships that are zipping around with little effort.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    What are you saying?

    The crossbow guy shoots 1 out of every 10 times on target! Can the Enterprise to better than that? Do they have something like targeting computers that hit every time?

    But well, I have only ever seen people asking about the Enterprise against the Death Star or the Enterprise against a destroyer. On both cases the Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their ranges, of course, but it's more than a pair of smugglers.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their range

    The deathstar destroyed planets light-years away in seconds.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    But well, I have only ever seen people asking about the Enterprise against the Death Star or the Enterprise against a destroyer. On both cases the Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their ranges, of course

    Not just that, but Star Wars ships are effectively unshielded. The enterprise can just use the transporter to send a primed torpedo to their opponent's bridge, or a tractor beam to rip their hull apart.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    Technically the Falcon is much more like an 18-wheeler than a van. It is a cargo pusher/hauler, by design.

    But still, the comparison is apt.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    Like other commenters pointed out Star Wars is a universe in decline whereas Star Trek is constantly improving. OG Star Trek would be somewhat comparable to the Star Wars Universe minus the teleporters which would be an unbelievable advantage.

    I think an OG Star Trek ship the same size as the falcon would be a battle that could go either way. Obviously a ship like the Enterprise is so much larger it wouldn't be a fair fight.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    The better debate would be between a Star Destroyer and the Enterprise. I feel like that comparison would be fairer.

    If you're going to compare the Millennium Falcon to anything, it would likely be a runabout or Delta Flyer.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Who wants to burst the bubbles of Star Wars fans?

    The Millennium Falcon could not stand up against any of the Star Trek Hero-ships. None of them. Zero, Zultch, Neoni.

    • NX01 Enterprise: Might be a fair match due to lack of proper shields, but the NX01 could still one shot The Falcon.
    • USS Discovery (either original or "A"): One Shot, Ship literally is a research vessel repurposed for war. it'll still oneshot The Falcon.
    • Enterprise (OG or A): One shot. Not even close.
    • Enterprise D: Wouldn't even need to oneshot you, will disable your weapons and engines and then bring you in to figure out what the fuck you are.
    • Defiant: Literally built for war. Won't fuck around, one shot.
    • DS9: DS9 can one shot the Falcon, but I think DS9 would be a destination for the Falcon.
    • Ceritos: Will shoot the Falcon down, and then someone will go "what the fuck was that".
    • Protostar: LITERALLY PILOTED BY FREAKIN' TEENAGERS! Would still body the Falcon.
    • La Serena: Closest narratively to the Falcon. Might stand a cha...what am I kidding, bodies it.
    • Federation headquarters (32nd Century): Bodies it, wouldn't have to because it's surrounded by ships who alone could Body the Falcon.

    In fact, every single ship on this list except for maybe the NX01 wouldn't even need to fire a shot because they could just get a transporter lock, and teleport everyone off the ship and then grab it with a tractor beam. Everyone. Han, Chewie, Luke, Leia, Finn, Poe, Rei, everyone. They can be beamed directly to the Brig to make sure they don't do anything stupid, and whoever the captain is (I'm going for Pike because he's my favourite) can some down and be all "Hey, you were firing at my ship with a peashooter, don't worry, it's unharmed, strange ship, doesn't have Warp or shields or anything. You all seem human except for the big guy there, we don't have your species in our database. Want a drink of something? The replicator can make anything you'd like."

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    Ugh I guess I'm going to be this type of fan.

    I like both universes but the "they will just get a transporter lock and teleport everyone" is an awful argument that shows a very bad lack of understanding of Star Trek.

    There are hundreds of examples of transporters not working. Shields which even the tiny falcon does have are a constant example. Even past that there are tons of other cases. They don't work in storms, through thick rock, through unusual armor/metal, around jamming which is used basically universally in Star Wars on anything larger or more expensive than a Tie Fighter.

    Those are just the ones off the top of my head and there are at least a dozen more. It is one of the top plot lines used in every series.

    In a fight the falcon just runs away since even mid grade Star Wars ships have radically faster FTL.

    Now if you ignore the running away yes the tiny falcon probably does lose to most or maybe even all of the Trek hero ships. It is a smuggler ship that can just run past blockades if it gets flagged.

    Actual combat ships are far harder to figure out. Star Wars deals with a massively larger scale of ship size, total energy output, and FTL speed. At first glance that seems like an obvious win and in a full galaxy scale conflict probably does go to Star Wars.

    But any single ship to ship combat especially with the hero ships the range of gadgets/tricks on the Star Trek side is massively in their favor. The rate they pick up tech charges probably would largely even out the tech difference in a galaxy wide fight as well. However that doesn't solve the scale difference. Maybe convince the Borg to produce ships with stolen FTL and hypermatter reactors so they can produce enough at scale quickly.

    Edit - I just realized that while the transporter argument doesn't generally hold water it would totally work on all the cheap Tie Fighter pilots. LOL. That would be so funny to watch.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

    There are other ships in the Star Wars universe ☺️

    Edit: I can't even read headlines.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Well the question was "Millennium Falcon vs Enterprise".

    As for say, any Star Trek Hero ship against a Star Dreadnought like an Assertor Class or Procurator, then it's a challenge. I think in that case, one of the only ships that could stand a chance is maybe the Defiant purely because it's made for the Hit-and-run tactics that those ships are weak against.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    It's like asking if some random hick with a pickup truck, an AR-15 and a few pipe bombs could take on a fully trained Roman charioteer with equipment forged by the finest craftsmen in the Empire.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Why are people still arguing in the comments. Falcon would be toast before they’d got someone to the turrets.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    We look for things, things to pay the Hutt.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    What this analysis forgets is one simple fact:

    Han shoots first.

    (He still loses most matches but I think NX-01 would not win)

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    the falcon took on worse and had no problems.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    But the Enterprise can probably beam Han and Chewy into the void of space if they so desired.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    ... but but but he did the Kessel run in 12 parsecs or something maaaaan

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    This basically happened. It's TNG 2x01, "The Outrageous Okona." Some schmuck in a jumped-up cargo shuttle harasses the Enterprise, and Riker asks, 'can lasers even hit us?'

    The pilot is a chauvanistic brigand, on the run, having dumped his cargo... wearing a white shirt and dark vest. It is genuinely surprising Memory Alpha does not explicitly call this a Han Solo expy.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Failed to load media.

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  • [+] -7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I'm a Trekkie though and through, but I still think the Millenium Falcon wins that battle in a simple one on one.

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  • 21 comments in c/starwarsmemes@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 14 points 10 months ago

    Well if you put it that way... Weedman and Crossbro let's go bay-bee!!

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe, but if it was a movie who would you cheer for, the massively overpowered enterprise just blowing up a space minivan or the David vs Goliath battle where two friends with a crossbow takes on a US Space ship and triumphantly makes the impossible possible

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, the Millennium Falcon and the Defiant would make for a good scrap, not sure if even that's too much of a mismatch.

    Maybe the Millennium Falcon Vs the Delta Flyer.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago

    It's all just a big misunderstanding!

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Wouldn't the Enterprise just beam them directly to the brig?

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    But does the enterprise dump its trash?

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I think a better match is Enterprise vs Star Destroyed.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Only one of these vessels has done the Kessel run in 7 parsecs

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Honestly an X-Wing would likely fare better than the Falcon. Proton torpedoes, and small enough to evade their turbo lasers phasers 

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    You do know those phasers are at the speed of light and auto target, right?

    You can't really dodge them, only deflect them.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I was making an admittedly weak reference to the death star trench run dialog. Not serious

    Honestly I find these types of questions silly since we have no way to compare the efficiency and efficacy of the different weapon and shielding types, or other on board tech and countermeasures.

    For all we know the falcon's shields absorb phasers like they're paper and its turret lasers eat the Enterprise's shield at 5% per bolt. Or it could be the other way around. Not to mention this completely ignores tactics and strategy which is a huge part of it. The Falcon doesn't do direct confrontation for a reason. Han is more likely to try to fake a surrender and then pull some shit once aboard for negotiations.

    And if we're just gonna say "Trek tech is more advanced than Wars tech" we can just end the discussion there 🤷‍♀️

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    It's really hard to compare fantasy and sci fi too. Space acts different in star wars, it has wind resistance like properties as an example.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Totally. The fact is, once a society is beyond intra-stellar travel, with craft that do not do atmospheric flight, there is little reason not to go full borg and have ships with no real forward-facing direction to speak of

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    So you think the same as we do, then? The weedman in the vintage van it is, then.

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