Hello, Im kind of new here and trying to get used to Lemmy and I was wondering about if this is true since I am considering donating on this site to support alternative projects but wanted to hear other users before doing so. That being said, what have been your experiences?

top 98 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 44 points 11 months ago (4 children)

What makes Lemmy different from Reddit is that if some moderator or admin is limiting your freedom of speech, you can run your own instance with your own rules and communities and still be on Lemmy. Reddit can ban you from Reddit, but Lemmy is like a collection of "reddits" that integrate and there is no central authority. To answer your question, as a user you have more freedom to find an instance with rules that align with your values and wishes, and you always have the option to create your own instance, and no one can stop you. If you say things that other people don't want to hear, they might block you, but that doesn't limit your freedom of speech.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] [S] 14 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    I would add to this that there is significant controversy around the ideological alignment of the lemmy developers, and most people would find the political leanings of the instances they're associated with to be... unpalatable.

    I'll leave you to undertake that journey of discovery for yourself, suffice to say that freedom of speech is particularly limited on those instances.

    Other software operates in the fediverse and is interoperable with lemmy. For example, myself and the commenter you replied to are registered with piefed servers, while this post is on a lemmy server.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 34 points 11 months ago (14 children)

    Technically, yeah. Some instances are run by tin-pot dictators with delusions of godhood, but if you get banned from one of those just switch to another one.

    The communities tend to be bubblier, though, since they're small. So if your opinions don't match you'll get shouted down harder.

  • source
  • hideshow 14 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    The hive is a lot more arrogant here.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    There is one nice feature that pushes back against hive-mindedness here that Reddit lacks, at least; you can see your upvote and downvote totals rather than just the single aggregate total. Reddit used to be like that years ago but they got rid of it.

    That means that if you say something that gets a ton of both downvotes and upvotes you can at least know that there were a significant number of people who liked it it. Over on Reddit saying anything that netted negative karma felt like screaming into the void.

    Oh, and the small population means that downvoted comments are still likely easy to see. That helps too.

    Still, the Fediverse does feel more strongly bubbled than Reddit does, from my subjective and anecdotal position.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    Yeah. Basically, I go to Reddit for independent information. I come here to essentially get yelled for having a nuanced take.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] 5 points 11 months ago* (2 children)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • [+] 5 points 11 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago

    10 hours ago over in lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world you saw a picture that you rather liked but that was getting a lot of downvotes and you didn't know why. You were told by @breadleyloafsyou@lemmy.zip that "lemmy doesn’t like AI"

    Also 10 hours ago over in nostupidquestions@lemmy.world you said "I know its an unpopular opinion, but I don't agree with punching Nazis. It makes them look like a victim, and violence never works." You got a bunch of downvotes for that yourself.

    Just a couple of examples of situations where an opinion that was against the consensus view of the community got "punished."

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Lemmy.world, so the largest general 'bubble' so to speak. You're on the generalist, relatively moderate instance.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    I feel like when people describe anything as moderate on the fediverse, they're really taking about the middle ground between centrism and true communism. And somehow that's still icky for some people's tastes. Lol

    I would never in a million years describe myself as moderate and I find myself agreeing with the great majority of opinions I come across. That's how the general vibe of the entire instance feels, and it's still not leftist enough for some folks, somehow.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • [–] 22 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    It depends what you mean. Individual instances have their own approach to moderation, which influences what you will see and have access to. Some are more hands off than others. But if your "free speech" is really just looking for a free pass to hate on folk, then you won't have much luck with lemmy. There are instances that allow that, but most other instances block them.

  • source
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] [S] 2 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    I mean if mods ban people for not agreeing with them basically.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    Entirely depends on the disagreement. There are instances and communities where bigotry is tolerated. I do not frequent them. I would very much like the mods of the communities I use to continue banning people that disagree with them about things like basic human rights and hate. People are free to share their opinions on basically anything most places on the fediverse. Just don't be a dick, you should be fine. If the "freedom of speech" you're looking for is the freedom to be racist, homophobic, transphobic, or generally hateful, you'll probably be disappointed.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    There are plenty of examples on the ye power trippin bastards community. It's a classic tale as old as the days of IRC and ancient Greek forums. Moderation can easily be abused if unchecked.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Yeah, however they protect shitfucks like UniversalMonk and all of his sock puppets. That community is run by wannabe anarchists that give it out but ban and block when they can’t take it.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    It has just as much freedom as any other platform. It all depends on who the admins and moderators are. We do have better tools of keeping those in check, with the modlog being publicly available tho.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago

    short answer: yes

    medium answer: depends on what instance you're on

  • source
  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago* (29 children)

    Absolutely.

    It's not even a debate.

    My 13 year old Reddit account was perma-banned without warning for saying "PUNCH A NAZI". Let's test that out here.

    PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI PUNCH A NAZI

    And that was just my first of probably 30-40 Reddit accounts before I finally said fuck it and came here. I'm not some asshole purposefully posting asshole shit I know I'm going to get banned for. Reddit is just that pathetic.

    It's just that I have zero patience for dipshits posting misinformation (as should we all) and I'm not afraid to let them know it. Lemmy gives me that liberty. Thanks Lemmy!!!

  • source
  • hideshow 29 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago* (26 children)

    RUSSIA/CHINA PUNCH

    You are now dogpiled on and banned from Lemmy.ml and Hexbear

    Step on an eggshell about gender identity that rubs someone the wrong way

    You are vilified and immediately banned from lemmy.blahaj.zone

    Let's be real, your example only works because the mods and admins agree that we should punch nazis.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 26 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (11 children)

    The big difference is that while you can be banned from one instance, you can still use the rest of Lemmy.

    You're free to say what you want, but individual instances can decide whether they want to platform you. I prefer this over reddit-wide bullshit bans.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 11 months ago* (10 children)

    You’re free to say what you want

    But that's my point, you're not free to say whatever you want. Even holding a different opinion can draw the wrong attention in the worst ways. The people who dogpile, vilify, and twist your words see no consequences, and only you end up paying by being excluded from the bigger communities for sticking to your words. You will get banned, and your comments will be scrubbed from the modlog.

    What you're saying only works if you're ok with dealing in smaller communities with less traffic, which is a major complaint seeing as how Lemmy is already a small social media site, or you're willing to shell out the money to spin up your own instance, which isn't viable for the people who would love to do that if only money wasn't a limitation.

    What I'm saying is that regardless of how one cuts it, speech isn't free here. It's heavily punished and often enforced.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    My point is this: SPEECH IS NEVER FREE. Not in the way you mean, i.e. without consequences. Find me one place in the entire world where you can say whatever you want without any consequences. I'll wait.

    In your daily life you can also say what you want. People might get pissed at you, refuse to talk to you, break off friendships, get you fired from your job if you go too far, whatever. That's just life. What you say and do has consequences. Even online. Even at Lemmy.

    Freedom of speech means your government won't arrest you and lock you up for your opinions, but any other consequences in your social circle, for example, are just that. When you're an asshole, people will think you're an asshole. Sounds normal to me. And if you're surrounded by assholes, they will act like assholes no matter what you say. If an instance has values so diametrically opposed to yours that they end up banning you, then good riddance, no? Edit: E.g. getting thrown out of a Nazi bar is no huge loss.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Sorry, I meant to say that speech isn't as free as people are saying in this thread. We have people essentially screaming "punch a nazi" as if it's a controversial opinion here, when there are other milder opinions that would create some serious outrage and get you banned on a whim.

    I think it's universally understood that there are consequences to what you say, and even how you say it, and when. I think that's part of my point. I'm not here to argue for absolute free speech. I don't believe in that.

    I'm merely pointing out that the Fediverse as a whole is a lot more policed than people say. It doesn't take much to create animosity.

    If an instance has values so diametrically opposed to yours that they end up banning you, then good riddance, no? Edit: E.g. getting thrown out of a Nazi bar is no huge loss.

    I don't think that's how it works. You can very much agree with a community the overwhelming majority of the time while getting along fine, and still create some friction by touching specific topics. At least, that's been my experience in general everywhere, both online and IRL.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Oh absolutely. You can't agree with someone 100% of the time. Or well, you can, but it's rare. ;)

    You're obviously right, there is no absolute free speech and there shouldn't be, imo. I see Lemmy a bit in the same way I see my real life. Everyone has rules in their own house and if you want to be invited in, you'll have to live by them. If you don't want to do that, that's fine, but you can't expect them to keep inviting you - and you're welcome to go to another party where another group of people might not be invited.

    Does this mean there are instances where I won't be welcome? Sure. But it also means there are instances where I won't be forced to see/read things I really don't want to see. I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but in my experience it's perfectly possible (with few exceptions) for me to say what I want, as long as I sometimes go about it with a little tact (but the fact that I don't want to be a huge asshole probably helps. ;))

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (6 children)

    Just because you are free to way whatever you want, doesn't mean, that anybody has to listen or agree with you. If people don't agree with your opinion and they let you know it, they are exercising their own freedom of speech.

    And also, nobody owes you to platform your beliefs uncritically. Either you find a community, that wants to engage with you (and you talk to the other communities that wanna engage with your community) or you create your own community (and yeah, that could cost you a small amount of money and time). My point is, you can't just expect people to let you use the resources that they pay for to platform opinions that they find harmful enough to not wanna talk to you again. Saying that someone banning someone from their community is impeading on your free speech is just like complaining that someone didn't invite you to their party because you insulted them.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (5 children)

    Disagreeing is one thing, and it's what we're doing, right? But there's a big difference when you're being dogpiled, vilified, harassed, insulted, and strawmanned all because people dislike what you said, even if it wasn't offensive or wrong. Then you get your comments removed and your account banned when you merely defend your point of view.

    And also, nobody owes you to platform your beliefs uncritically

    But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying quite the opposite, when even the point you're making is calling something into question. These mods aren't even paying for the hosting service.

    Saying that someone banning someone from their community is impeading on your free speech is just like complaining that someone didn’t invite you to their party because you insulted them.

    Oh, come on, these are open forums where everyone is encouraged to participate at first, and you don't even have to be insulting to get on the wrong side of some people. I have been banned while being perfectly polite and following the rules.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Well, your entire argument is based on very vague anecdotal observations and you didn't mention any concrete examples, so arguing against your points feels kind of pointless.

    What were the exact things you said on which communities, that got you "dogpiled"?

    And please just be honest, you are not some kind of politian trying to win a debate by any means possible, I see this more as a conversation.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

    vague anecdotal observations

    Sounds like you're just trying to wave me off.

    What were the exact things you said on which communities, that got you “dogpiled”?

    Don't worry about it. Talking to you seems kind of pointless, too, seeing as you're not even a mod or an admin.

    And please just be honest, you are not some kind of politian trying to win a debate by any means possible, I see this more as a conversation.

    I'm sorry, what? Aren't we doing exactly that? How am I being a politician? I think you have the wrong idea about me and are trying to steer the conversation back on the track that it's already on for some reason. lol

    Honestly, I'd rather not deal with these annoying mischaracterizations. I've said my peace, I think I'm done.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    What were the exact things you said on which communities, that got you “dogpiled”?

    I'm also interested in the answer to this question.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    Oh, I can answer that. I'm not here to revive the topics, as these things usually go with people trying to nitpick, but hopefully it'll appease someone's curiosity.

    One time, I made a comment on blahaj zone about gay guys wearing too much makeup and wearing feminine clothes that seemed to be crossing the line into cross-dressing. It had literally happened to me a week prior when I went out with my non-binary friends to the gay bar I frequent, so it was fresh in my mind. They wore skirts, lip gloss, and handbags. It's literally nothing out of the ordinary for them, and I actually appreciate it. The comment was made in jest because, well, they are gender non-conforming and that falls under the trans umbrella after all. Well, I guess someone thought I was being a bigot who was assuming things about gender and made a fuss by misinterpreting what I said. They started demanding that I apologize for my comment as if it were a big deal, and people started replying with their version of events. I refused and tried to explain that it wasn't the case, but they still banned me after someone reported me. I complained that they were being outrageous and had some very unkind words for the admin, who took matters too far and who I thought was being unfair.

    Another time, I criticized communism on lemmy.ml. Unfortunately, I didn't know how cozied up they were with hexbear, who crusaded out of nowhere and started dunking on me, even though I didn't think I had said something bad. I thought it was light criticism, and I even explained that I'm not even against it, but they had no tolerance for it whatsoever. The next day, I was under 40+ comments calling me all kinds of shit. A mod (admin?) came across it and banned my account on sight. They even included some bullshit in the modlogs to hide the real motive. This happened about 2.5 years ago, so I don't remember all the details, sorry.

    And the most recent one was when I was pleading for people to avoid posting blown-up, zoomed-in pictures of common phobias like spiders without a spoiler or NSFW tag, out of consideration for people who have a lifelong struggle with these things that pop up in /all, explaining that many underestimate how much of an effect it can have. It's hard to explain what happens in the moment, but let's just say that the UIs become less than helpful in a panic when your entire screen is covered with your phobia. It causes more than a jump scare from prolonged exposure, and it's followed by nervousness and agitation that lasts for a good while, which can ruin a good morning. I was called all kinds of shit, berated, blamed, and humiliated. I ended up reporting someone who was breaking the site-wide and sub rules. And who gets banned? Me, with some bullshit in the modlogs about how I'm a "known troll." The mod did end up unbanning and apologizing for jumping the gun, but only after I called them out on it in a different thread.

    All of these cases have things in common: the rules were selectively enforced, people either misattributed or overloaded what the other was saying, the comments were scrubbed, and the wrong person was targeted.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Thanks for answering.

    I'm completely with you on the .ml and the phobias things, but I think your comments about what gay guys wear is an obviously crass comment, that might get a laugh in your friendship group after some specific experience, but I think you should absolutely know not to post it as a general comment out of politeness if nothing else.

    The .ml mods take offence at anything even mildly critical of Russia, China or North Korea (or communism of course): You're not the asshole, they are.

    The people taking offence at you asking them to be considerate and put phobia triggers behind spoilers: You're not the asshole, they are.

    The people taking offence at you apparently "jokingly" calling a whole category of people out for their clothing choices while you apparently socially enforce gender stereotypes, in a space designed as a safe space for the frequently bullied, frequently misgendered, frequently clothing criticised trans community? I'm afraid this time, you are the asshole, and an apology and retraction would have been better than being defensive, doubling down and arguing that they ought not to have taken offence.

    Who were you criticising or joking about each time?

    Authoritarian regimes? Nasty. OK to criticise.

    People triggering phobias? Nasty. OK to criticise.

    Gay people wearing non gender conforming clothes? Not nasty, just different. Not OK to criticise. Not OK to joke about. Gay folk and trans folk have had everything about them criticised and made fun of their whole lives. It was always going to land badly.

    Not that you asked for my opinion, and sorry to butt in, but that's what I think.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (13 children)

    Step on an eggshell about gender identity that rubs someone the wrong way

    You are vilified and immediately banned from lemmy.blahaj.zone

    I've never found it hard to avoid offending trans people. Just don't be a dick, be respectful instead.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 13 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (7 children)

    You usually won't find it hard to avoid offending people with reasonable expectations. Just don’t be a dick, be respectful instead.

    But there can be unreasonable in all groups. You just haven't met an unreasonable trans person yet.
    Although I haven't either and the depictions I know of might just have been another one of those social stunts, there most probably are a few out there.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (6 children)

    Did you downvote your own post?! The scores are +0-1 when I'm seeing it (and the-1 isn't me).

    You're right about me not meeting an unreasonable trans person. All the trans folks I know or have known in real life are fantastic people who I have a lot of respect for and have gone through a lot of shit from other people. I think it's worth me doing my best not to add to that and definitely value them as they are.

    (Some people who are bullied go on to be bullies, but far, far, far from all, and statistically, yes, there should be some trans people who are unreasonable or bullies, and I think I've encountered an unreasonable trans person on lemmy, but I will only ever criticise the mean things they say or their politics, never their gender or presentation.)

    Generally, I don't understand why people think that trans folk haven't had enough criticism, "explaining", social rejection, etc etc etc.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (5 children)

    Did you downvote your own post?! The scores are +0-1 when I’m seeing it (and the-1 isn’t me).

    Considering there was a 17 hours gap, it's quite possible that someone had the time to read and downvote it before you saw it.
    And I get it, there are quite a few people who don't like people that don't perform fake values.


    One of the depictions of unreasonable trans people was a video that came up in the beginning of the this trend of trans people coming out + a lot of people getting medical treatments related to their gender identity.
    It was some tall, brown coloured, athletically muscular "man" (because he looked mostly like a man, apart from the lipstick, which might as well have been just a man wearing lipstick, to those around him) loudly complaining about something in a restaurant, while the staff tried to de-escalate. One of the staff members then calls him (her?) "Sir", to which (s)he then became melodramatic. Although the chap didn't end up telling others what (s)he wanted to be called, until the very end of the video.

    Now, it might have been someone with a genuine problem, that was just not captured in the video, but could also have been someone just trying to gather hatred towards a community that hadn't even been formed yet.


    But of course, I have had a depiction of trans(-ish?) people long before the trend started on the US internet. It is of groups of people (called "ladyboys" by English reporters, but there has been a colloquial term) who are often hermaphrodites, but could also be eunuchs.
    The story about them I was told as a child, was that they come in groups during marriages, asking for exorbitant (but somewhat payable) amounts of money and 'make a scene' if not paid. The scene they make would be stuff like public nudity, with obscene looking displays, or going around cursing people (which some person told me that they actually work).

    To me, that looked like just some begging+harassment ring. Add to that, an anecdote of one my relatives having been casually molested in public as a child by them, made me think pretty lowly of them.

    Those groups seem to have died down now (I think?), which maybe partially because the Government officially recognised the third gender (quite a while ago actually, since I see it in govt. forms) and apart from them getting access to education (the Govt. funded kind, meant for poor people, because if one is rich, being in a minority is just a minor inconvenience as far as "means" go), also getting some reservation quota for certain menial jobs, if they were to not find work normally.


    And then there was the depiction of a hermaphrodite in the pretty popular cartoon (anime) "Kochikame", which made me think that Japan had been ahead in this kind of thing, as the depicted person was normally working as an officer.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (4 children)

    Did you downvote your own post?! The scores are +0-1 when I’m seeing it (and the-1 isn’t me).

    Considering there was a 17 hours gap, it’s quite possible that someone had the time to read and downvote it before you saw it.

    Yeah, but on my instance, anything you post automatically has a +1 from yourself, which you must have removed.

    Your takes on trans people and intersex people seem to all be from concern trolling media and third hand stories. Trans people are like witches that hand out curses that cause harm? I think your skepticism alarm should be going off.

    For the record, molesting children is absolutely not OK under any circumstances. I forget what the statistics are, but I remember that the number of incidents of trans people being sex offenders is far lower than you would expect from the prevalence of trans people and of sex offending in the general population.

    It seems to me that you were fed a lot of negative stereotypes of trans and intersex people when you were young, and I worry that you are interpreting finding the lack of evidence of any of this in the real world now that you are older as a change in the world when it might be wiser to take it as evidence that the negative stereotypes were always sensational, overblown and inaccurate.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (3 children)

    Trans people are like witches that hand out curses that cause harm? I think your skepticism alarm should be going off.

    When I said that - some person told me that they actually work - I didn't mean to say that I believed that part.

    Although I understand that I didn't mention that multiple times in capital words (because I didn't feel the need to), just because some of the poor trans people banded with some poor eunuchs to make a cult, of which I have a bad impression, that doesn't mean, I have said impression for trans people all over the world.
    I was mostly just giving a list of past events, and they most definitely don't tell my current thoughts, which I feel, the last 2 paragraphs should have explained well enough.


    I have once even gone pretty far into explaining how important I consider, not to have prejudice, which even got quite a bit of backlash and a ban from a community. So I am not going to put the effort into reiterating it over here.

    But of course, anyone may feel free to label me as anti-trans or whatever anyone may feel like and I may feel free to consider them an unreasonable person.

    Yeah, but on my instance, anything you post automatically has a +1 from yourself, which you must have removed.

    I didn't downvote my post, I just un-upvoted it. It is possible to downvote it and that would give me a -1 from myself.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Why unupvote it? Do you normally do that? Is it a principal? Or was it just that one?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I started that mainly because it felt weird that a comment I wrote, had a blue up, when I didn't do it.
    Now I consider upvoting something as a way to emphasise the post/comment and not upvoting all my comments makes me show a point when I do upvote something that I wrote.
    It is really just for myself though, as a single upvote doesn't really matter and others are not really seeing if I am the one that has upvoted it. You can call it a compulsion, I suppose.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (4 children)

    Well, yeah, I know how to behave. I have a long history of participating in the trans community. I'm not foreign to any of these things.

    But none of that matters when the other person misinterprets what you're saying or what you mean, attributes malice to your words, and refuses to change their perspective when you try to explain, while demanding an apology for what is essentially an innocuous comment as if you killed their cat.

    The fact of the matter is that, much like the atheist community that I've come to abhor after being a part of it for over a decade, the trans community also has its fair share of crazies. And those aren't even my words, but the words of a trans friend with whom I used to go to these trans events. He also got fed up with their bullshit and would rant at me about them while sharing screenshots. And even now I try to be more patient than him, but sometimes I think to myself, "holy shit, he was right."

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

    attributes malice to your words, and refuses to change their perspective when you try to explain, while demanding an apology for what is essentially an innocuous comment as if you killed their cat.

    You see, that's where I find it much easier than you. If I accidentally offend someone that I really didn't mean to, especially if they're in a marginalised group that has had plenty of shit thrown at them for it their whole life, I find it very easy to apologise, back down, maybe try to explain that I didn't mean it the way they read it, but being careful to very clearly restate my apology for the offence I caused afterwards if I do.

    You would rather tell them that they were wrong and that you were right, and you're prepared to argue it long and hard. I find that completely unnecessary, because I don't need to win if I didn't mean to beat them in the first place.

    I have difficulty backing down in lots of scenarios but accidentally upsetting someone I didn't mean to isn't one of them.

    Well, yeah, I know how to behave.

    Not how to back down when you didn't mean to upset people, though.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    I think you're assuming a lot about what the interaction actually was about, how it happened, and why. And you're assuming that I don't know what being part of a marginalized group that gets constant shit thrown at feels like.

    An apology is not in order when the person is making a big deal out of nothing, making shit up, and reframing what's being said to defend imaginary people or abstract ideas. Then add to that malice when things don't go their way. If I had said something about a particular person or something egregious, I would understand, but I said it about a drawing.

    I have difficulty backing down in lots of scenarios but accidentally upsetting someone I didn’t mean to isn’t one of them.

    You say that because you haven't met the whiteknights in the community who get upset on behalf of others or lose their shit when others don't follow their mental models of gender expression/identity. You know how white people will sometimes cry culture appropriation, and the natives are like, "uh, we're actually ok with that"? Yeah, they exist in the gay world too, and some are vicious and vindictive to the point of being abusive themselves. To me, it sounds like you're defending a Karen.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    As I said elsewhere, it would be unusual for a vast number of folk to not contain annoying or argumentative people, but I worry about tarring a whole category by always bringing up examples of bad behaviour and mentioning the category as part of it.

    For example: "There was this manager shouting at all the women that they needed to keep in shape to impress the customers, but he was obviously badly unfit and overweight and dressed really shabbily." OK story. But "Fat middle aged guys who don't lift a finger to try to live healthily can be so annoying when they dress badly and then shout at women that they sold keep in shape and to impress clients." Not OK, makes it about the category of people.

    But, clearly I wasn't there and I didn't know that you were criticising a drawing!

    It sounds like you had a bad experience and whilst I very much don't want to generalise from it, I also don't want to belittle it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    But, clearly I wasn’t there and I didn’t know that you were criticising a drawing!

    Precisely, so let's not assume things and speak in ways that try to pin it on me. "You should've apologized and backed down" is rewarding their shitty behavior.

    I get your point about avoiding generalizations, but I wouldn't call it a category. This is a pattern of behavior from people who think they're standing up for someone or something, but end up being straight-up toxic by taking social justice to extremes. I've even seen it in person, where some asshole crashed our LGBT+ community group because they started accusing another guy of saying something racist when it wasn't the case. It was needless drama all around because someone decided to be the superhero and save imaginary people.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Ive made many comments that go against the general view of the user base. It gets downvoted but never deleted or banned. So I would say its pro free speech.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    Not in my experience. I've gotten into an argument while specifically pleading against sharing screen-wide, zoomed-in images of common phobias like spiders without a spoiler/NSFW out of basic consideration.

    Not only did people go out of their way to misunderstand what I was saying, but I got too many wholly nasty replies, and then got banned for reporting someone else for actually breaking the sub and site-wide rules, and was accused of being a "well-known troll" in the modlog. The fuck?

    Needless to say, I got the mod to unban me when I called them out in another thread, and they eventually apologized.

    But the knee-jerk reaction, close-mindedness, and immediate hate that I got felt a lot like the prejudice I've seen with homophobia. It's so exhausting to see these prejudices and attitudes so readily prop up in unexpected places, especially in a forum where you'd think people know better.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    Hell yeah.

    Now, will people disagree with you in very emotional ways, downvote without giving any explanation, etc etc.? Sure! But you won't get banned for opposing Western imperialism, for instance. I mean, I talk about God and give people shit for being vacuous, hedonistic and self-centered (because that's at the core of many sociocultural issues) and I haven't been banned, at most I get boo'd. 😅

  • source
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    opposing Western imperialism

    I get the sentiment, but this usually boils down to blaming everyone on the Western hemisphere for what the US is doing.

    I really wish these attitudes would take into account the other dozen countries like my own that largely keep to themselves.

    So yeah, boo!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    dozen countries like my own

    I'm gonna guess.... Portugal! I can't think of anything they've done -recently- that's overtly imperialistic? Ireland?
    You'd best not be British, German, French, Italian, Romanian, Czech, Hungarian, Austrian, Polish or Israeli, though.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Lol I wasn't expecting people to guess. But it's just little old Mexico.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    Oh shit! Mexico is indeed pretty blameless, except for the apparent heinous crime of existing next to the USA.
    Tell me though, is it true that everything is in sepia there? I only have US-made movies and TV to go off, so of course I'm assuming that's 100% accurate. Is it still sepia at night? If you fly into Mexico does it flick to sepia instantly or is it more like a slow transition that you hardly notice? Who pays for all the yellow pigment?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago

    I would say, Lemmy (or the Fediverse in general is just like real life. You can say anything you want, but don't expect anyone to invite you to their party or talk to you, if you are being an jerk.

    Meaning, that noone can ban you from Lemmy for anything you say. But they certainly can ban you from their own instance and / or not federate with an instance, you are on if they don't like what you say.

    Also, as a general word of advice, just be a decent, nice person and you'll probably be fine. Online or offline. A major idea of the fediverse is to imagine and be part of a better world and if we engage with each other respectfully, everyone is better off.

  • source
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago

    I'd say yes, reddit is overmoderated

  • source
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    There is three questions to consider.

    One is the site itself. Reddit inc has their own policies that apply site-wide no matter what. Lemmy has no central organization like that, although each individual server operator has their own acceptable use policy for what they allow on their server. This means it is both more free and more confusing- if you want to post potentially objectionable content like porn, there are plenty of servers that allow it or you can always run your own, but you have to make sure you are on one.

    Next is individual group moderation. Both Reddit and Lemmy have this, community level moderators that apply whatever standards particular community requires. There is much less of the 'power mod on a power trip' situation than on Reddit currently, at least in my experience. I think some of that is because the overall traffic level is less, so it will be interesting to see what happens as Lemmy grows.

    Finally there is culture and self-moderation. You see this on mass market platforms like Instagram and TikTok, where someone will say like they were roped at a party and want to buy a pewpew to unalive themself or some other such bullshit. Unfortunately that brain rot is spreading into Reddit, even though it is not at all required. Fortunately Lemmy seems pretty free of that so far.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [+] 4 points 11 months ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    That's a good point actually. An extra level of ridiculousness and hypocrisy to this trend of self censorship.
    You know what worries me though? It was about 2008ish when I first heard someone say "lol" verbally as a response to a witty comment, and it was a really weird moment for me. She didn't laugh, she smiled and said "lol", because she was so used to speaking online. Now it's pretty normal to hear that. I even do it without realising it.
    What worries me is that these awful censorship words will creep into spoken English and people will start saying then out loud. I think I will unalive a little inside when that happens.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I have already heard things like "unalive" defended as youth slang rather than Orwellian doublespeak.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    I mean, on the one hand, no. It's not even slang, it's just a pathetic phenomenon where the users feel forced into using words they don't want to, even though they aren't being forced but they cowardishly still do it for fear of actual censorship. But then, on the other hand, my generation's youth slang includes things like douchecanoe and heckin and live, laugh, love, so I don't feel in a superior enough position to judge gen z on theirs.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
    [–] 8 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Freedom of speech. Yeah, sorta.

    Freedom from consequences of your speech. Nope.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Freedom of speech. Yeah, sorta.

    Freedom from consequences of your speech. Nope.

    They are exactly the same thing.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    A lot of people seem to be looking for safe places where they can spew whatever hate they have in their heart and not risk being criticised for it or banned for acting like a brownhole. Better make it clear for people probing the Fediverse.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Moderation exists but it is built by the community at large, not corporate overlords. That may mean that harmful speech is removed more aggressively than on corporate sites. On most corporate media sites, bigotry or trolling has to be extremely overt before it is removed. On the other hand, the nature of Lemmy (and the fediverse in general) is that it's a fairly low cost of entry, so there are many different people running many different instances, each with their own governance.

    Try it out for a week or two, and if you find it worthwhile enough that you check it daily, I think it's very nice donate to the person/people running your instance. It helps with the cost of running it.

    There are no ads, no corporate content, no manipulative algorithm.

    We are not perfect, but we're a lot better than most of what's out there. We're a little bit weird, and most of our jokes are about Star Trek or canned produce (for reasons no one understands), but it's a pretty cool place.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    There are no ads, no corporate content

    I wish that were true, but if you haven't seen any, thank your moderators.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago

    You don’t have freedom of speech on any site. Freedom of speech is freedom from the government restricting your speech, not private organizations.

    That said, yes. I got banned from Reddit for merely suggesting that people who harm children should face stiffer penalties. I’ve said that many times here and even pissed off some pedophiles here, but never got banned or suspended for it. I think Lemmy takes a bit more of a hands off approach.

    Consider: what I say about Reddit isn’t going to affect Reddit at all. But someone like me says bad things about Lemmy, it might have more of an effect. Smaller sites pick their battles more carefully. Bigger sites don’t care.

    But even more than that, Lemmy is federated. That means your instance — lemmy.org — can ban you, and you can just join another, like db0 (what I’m on) or hexbear. We’re on different instances but we’re still able to interact.

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    lemmy isnt really an organization. its a platform that is then utilized by hundreds of different operators/groups implementing their own rules against much of the same content. there are many of these platforms that all offer differing capabilities and features while sharing a lot of the same content. this network is what we refer to as the fediverse.

    the reddit-like side is the threadiverse and is mimicked by platforms like lemmy.

    then there is the twitter-like (microblog) side i call the twitterverse and is mimicked by platforms like mastodon.

    then you have platforms that can access both sides of the fediverse like piefed and mbin.

    https://fedidb.com/

    as for censorship...

    its the beauty of this network' if one of those servers goes apeshit people can literally just move their 'subreddit' to a different server and tell the og one to fuck right off. this has happened a few times in different ways. users created new subs on other servers and effectively ignored the original, with no one having to make new accounts. it proves the idea.. no one person or company can control the content of the fediverse.

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    I’d actually consider Lemmy’s freedom of speech to be very similar to the US. Nobody on the network can limit your speech in your own instance but nobody has to platform your terrible speech and everyone is free to ignore your speech and exclude you to just participating on your own instance.

  • source
  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    It does, outside of truly bad stuff or straight-up spam and such, you can just about say whatever here where Reddit will ding you if you sneeze wrong, seemingly, especially nowadays after they tightened up censorship over there.

    Also, unlike Reddit, if you don't like a given Lemmy instance, you can either move to another or even host your own, where with Reddit, it's either their way or the highway as it's a centralized, closed platform.

  • source
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Certainly less aggressive admins and auto mods.

  • source
  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    “Freedom of speech” is such a fraught concept. Define your terms.

    This place has moderation…but it’s not the same as Reddit with their broad autoban system that the sub moderators tend to exploit. It depends on what you say.

    I’m pretty new…but it’s apples and oranges. You’re a lot less likely to be baited into disingenuous arguments designed to make you angry to maximize engagement, here. People tend to post and comment in earnest.

  • source
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›