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[–] 59 points 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

STEAM- Give a reasonable good platform for gaming.

OTHERS- Kill themselves with shitty optimization and spam policies.

STEAM - Sit. Enjoy the sunny day. Drink a coffee. Improve a bit the navigator to help you find new games.

OTHERS - Keep their shitty platforms unoptimized and double down on AI Slops.

STEAM - Doing some yoga. Walk the dog. Add an AI disclaimer for the games.

(update) OTHERS - Complaining about Steam AI disclaimer on socials without fixing a single fuck on their platforms.

STEAM - Trying the new Turkish restaurant down the street. Read a book. Add a disclaimer to alert the user if there's a cheaper bundle for the same game they are buying in the cart.

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  • [–] 158 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Guys I know he is not perfect but it's understandable that people like him in a world where the average CEO drinks the blood of newborns daily.

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  • [–] 50 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Huh, so that’s why they’re all so prolife. Need to keep the source of fresh babies going…

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  • [–] 27 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    "Don't get an abortion! Have that baby and dispose of it at your nearest "Leave your baby here for our coalition of friendly CEOs to take care of" location for a 25$ amazon gift card!"

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    That fully sounds like a program a literal vampire would implement with wild success. Parents selling their kids for money happened in the past, so not even that much of a stretch. It does sound like a potential cobra problem though.

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  • [–] 42 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    People saying that when Gabe dies so does Steam seem to be missing a piece of the puzzle.

    From everything I've read and can tell they work using an ESOP (Employee Stock Ownership Program). Meaning each employee working there today is becoming partial owners in Valve. If you think they will allow some new face to show up when Gabe dies and flip the table you are missing the piece where the owners of this company are extremely well compensated today and a core part of making Valve successful today.

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  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    A ton of companies have ESOP, but that doesn't stop enshitification because the employees generally don't own enough shares to exert control.

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago

    Those shares are also generally for sale for a high enough price. Given the immense current value of the brand, when Gabe dies vultures of every variety will start circling. If they offer employees 2x their share price to sell, enough of them will do it to lose control to investors that just want to enshittify everything and milk it's brand for every last penny as they drive it into the ground.

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  • [–] 84 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    Gaben and steam are not perfect, but are monumentally better than what we would be stuck with on sony-soft

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  • [–] 47 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    They're succeeding by not actively running their platform into the ground, which is somehow inspiring and disappointing at the same time

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  • [–] 32 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    That's because they're a privately owned company. They can decide when to prioritize long term profits over short term profits.

    Most of their competition are publicity traded companies that have no such luxury. They have to make next quarter's number higher no matter what.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    All that's between you and success is a consistent and reasonable performance, but seemingly everyone else in the world is too greedy to pull this off.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    That's because they're a privately owned company. They can decide when to prioritize long term profits over short term profits.

    Most of their competition are publicity traded companies that have no such luxury. They have to make next quarter's number higher no matter what.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    succeeding by not actively running their platform into the ground

    As someone who began to use Steam from 2007, and play their games since 2000 - they not only made their platform better over years, they also now branching out lately. Their hardware is either the best in price/performance or outright innovative.

    They are not "succeeding by not actively running their platform into the ground", they succeeding in actually providing a good service and getting better the more time passes. All that while all competition does is to attempt to expand their user base without actually providing a good service.

    Just thought that if not Valve, we'd be stuck in the same shithole streaming services been lately.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Nintendo too. look, I love their creative, but holy hell have they become exceptionally money grabby.

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  • [–] 34 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I was extremely impressed that Valve did an RMA replacement for one of my Index base stations even out of warranty. They explicitly did not have to do that. It’s been years but I’m still amazed

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  • [–] 95 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    I am a fan of Valve, but this is just way exaggerated. For example, encourages you to save money by having sales? Isn't that about manipulating you into buying more games than you would otherwise, because you perceive the value as being better?

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    Where I am, games in Steam cost about five to ten bucks normally, and two or three bucks on sale. Ten bucks goes quite far here, and without sales many wouldn't buy games at all. Now, is it good value to buy games instead of not buying any?

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    They don't set the prices. Developers and Publishers of the game are the ones that do that.

    PlayStation has been known to straight up limit and even DENY developers and publishers of indie games on their platform but its strange I never see hate for them very much. And they also have crazy sales on AAA games too.

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  • [–] 23 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Lets pray valve never goes public

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  • [–] 44 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    They only began giving refunds when the European Union mandated it, back then only Origin (EA) gave refunds. Some times the EU is useful.

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  • [–] 36 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    The EU definitely helped. I'll add that this was actually kicked off by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) in 2014. They took Valve to court over their insistence that they can ignore Australian Consumer Law rights - in particular that if a product is 'not fit for purpose' then the buyer is entitled to a full refund, with respect to games. Valve offered no possibility of refund at the time. The case dragged on, but Valve eventually lost and was told to pay several million in fines, they appealed it to the High Court of Australia in 2016 - and lost also on appeal.

    The judge was pissed at Valve, and wrote in their ruling:

    “Valve’s culture of compliance was, and is, very poor”. Valve’s evidence was ‘disturbing’ to the Court because Valve ‘formed a view …that it was not subject to Australian law…and with the view that even if [legal] advice had been obtained that Valve was required to comply with the Australian law the advice might have been ignored”. He also noted that Valve had ‘contested liability on almost every imaginable point’.

    Valve are generally a very positive force in gaming, but they're definitely not the saints that OP image text implies.

    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/australia-fines-valve-over-steam-refunds

    https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/valve-to-pay-3-million-in-penalties-for-misrepresenting-gamers-consumer-guarantee-rights

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago*

    I have a pro-Valve bias because I do like them. But I still do want to make a fair argument and would like to be corrected if I fail to do so.

    So, yes, Valve's refund policy in the past was bad, and yes, they were forced to change. But since then they have fixed their mistakes, and have arguably the most generous refund policy out there. Last time I bought digital content from Nintendo store I had to waive my refund rights.

    They could have limited refunds to Australia but they didn't. This has to count for something, right? Valve is a for profit company in a capitalist system, and yes they have bad practices. But surely we can agree they are one of the better ones?

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  • [–] 52 points 11 months ago (10 children)

    This is such a controversial person to discuss. On one hand, loot boxes, the steam market for trading, and a lot of gambling and profiteering going on. At the same time, all of the OP comments are also true.

    Out of all the billionaires, I dislike gaben the least. The net good he's done for gaming may not balance the scales entirely, but at least there's a discussion to be had whether what gaben has done is for the better, or for the worse. Which is more than I can say about most billionaires I know of.

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  • [–] 26 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    Hot take: ...but it's just fucking gaming tho... He's not fucking with manifesting some bullshit ideology throughout the world, he's not trying to leave his mark on history... And if he is, it's as a chill dude who gave us all a better alternative to piracy.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago*

    Gabe was already wealthy with Microsoft money when he founded Valve, so when his new private startup found success he didn't feel the pressure to go public, expand, dilute, and cash out. He made the judgement call that they already had enough talent internally to keep playing the hits while keeping all the profit for themselves, and he was right. I'm sure a little bit a business ideology reinforces Gabe's long-term outlook for Valve, but he's ultimately enabled by a happy intersection of pre-existing wealth, great timing, and careful hiring choices.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago

    he’s not trying to leave his mark on history

    He kind of is, but in the way old-school millionaires did - he has purchased a MASSIVE yacht and turned it into an ocean-floor research laboratory, either donated it to a university, or just allows researchers to use it.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    I mean, he is developing the brain chip with his Starfish Neuroscience company but its supposed to be minimally invasive and let's be real if its between his and Elon Musks (which is NOT minimally invasive and requires surgical implantation) I'm definitely going with his.

    I wouldn't say at this point its all about gaming though. Valve is, but not necessarily Gabe. Which I don't mind but I could understand how some people wouldn't like it.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago*

    You know, I think those are inevitable ... any potentially evil technology shown in sci-fi will eventually be created irl; it's like some kind of rule (trust me). Given this, the future is a duality: it's either GabeN or a random billionaire. I want this potentially-abusive technology with devil that I know.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Fair. But its important to point out this won't be one that goes inside you it will be one that you put on the outside of your head that interacts with brain impulses, at least according to them.

    If I was someone with limited mobility or some other sort of handicap I would do that before I got the one that goes inside my skull. But that's just me.

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  • [–] 43 points 11 months ago

    Believing that sales exist to save people money is the funniest shit i have ever seen.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago

    All of the Valve employees are making bank. I don't think they'll be changing their core values any time soon even if he dies.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago

    As a fan of TF2, I'll quote another greentext: "does nothing, competition keeps shooting themself in the foot." It was about Overwatch vs TF2, but it's mostly similar.

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  • [–] 29 points 11 months ago

    When he dies gaming lives on within us.

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  • [–] 48 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    I know this novel strategy that Valve employs might be difficult to conceptualize for people whose thinking only extends as far as "company evil, success bad", so let me summarize it in a format that is easier to understand:

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I receive: half-decent product

    You receive: my money

    end of story

    The sad thing is that them having a half decent product is something special in this world

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    How would you like to see it improved?

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago

    The power vacuum this man will leave behind sucks.

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  • [–] 36 points 11 months ago* (6 children)

    Step 1. Make a good product
    Step 2. Corner the market
    Step 3. Build up good will
    Step 4. ...?
    Step 5. Keep building up good will

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  • [–] 27 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Step 4 is "buy the company that builds the yachts you like"

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Lol everyone always gets mad that dude has yachts.

    Do you think that the CEOs of Microsoft and Sony don't have yachts?

    So that's something they have in common. But consumer good will and overall happiness with the service isn't. Only one of the companies have that distinction and you know which one it is.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    The latest yacht is a research vessel - not a "party-cocaine-hookers" vessel. News articles accurately avoid mentioning that.

    There are tons of things to hate on billionaiers. To be fucking fair, Gabe is the most benign out of the bunch.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    The dude bought the yacht company.

    He doesn't just "have yachts".

    Also, maybe you're not aware just how insanely expensive and wasteful it is to own even one yacht, let alone a fleet of them. It's honestly hard for normies like us to even wrap our heads around.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I agree with you its wasteful and I personally would never own one but it sounds like the dude actually likes the whole sea scene and scuba dives and stuff like that a lot.

    A quote from him about it: "This isn’t about buying a yacht company. It’s about plugging into a tribe of builders, dreamers, sailors, creatives and engineers—and seeing what kind of future they can shape when no one’s holding them back. This isn’t a transaction. It’s ignition."

    So it really just sounds like he bought a company with a hobby he's interested in to make more money and be a part of the hands on experience with it. That's the same thing he did when he made Steam except he didn't buy it he made it.

    I still think yachts are insane and some absolute let them eat cake tier of rich bullshit but I don't hate the guy for buying a company he seems interested in.

    I'm not sucking his dick or anything but the dude got rich by being the least shit bag to the paying customers of his service. That's more than I can say about almost every single other CEO alive at this point. So fuck it, let him have the yachts I guess.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago

    he's like the willy wonka of video games

    oh and this is my 200th comment here on this lemmy instance. seriously!

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  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    They sell their hardware at a loss?

    Also, that's not necessarily because they put the consumers' needs advice above anything else. Sony and Microsoft do this all the time simply for market share.

    Edit: didn't check autocorrect before posting

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Not at a loss. We still don't know the prices of the new wave of hardware, but some Valve spokesperson has said that they wouldn't subsidize the price of the hardware with future game sales. They've also said, when the Steam Deck was launched, that affordability was a massive factor in the design, and that some of the decisions to make that happen were "painful".

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  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago

    I suspect translation later for ARM will be industry shaking

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Steam refused to issue refunds for a long, long time. In the end they started allowing refunds for everyone because governments started requiring it and it was easier to just allow them for everyone than having to do the legal footwork to have different policies based on geography.

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  • [–] 27 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    "Sells hardware at a loss to hook you into the steam ecosystem and make more money by selling you software" FTFY

    Don't get me wrong, as companies go I like valve, but to say they aren't making decisions based on making more money and just out of altruistic motives is madness. Businesses that aren't healthy and competitive die, even if they have rabid fans.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago* (5 children)

    Steam deck supports Xbox live streaming, gog, epic via lutris and heroic. It's about as far from a locked down ecosystem as one could possibly get.

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/xbox-cloud-gaming-in-microsoft-edge-with-steam-deck-43dd011b-0ce8-4810-8302-965be6d53296

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (4 children)

    Never said it was locked. But being locked or unlocked doesn't change the motivation and is irrelevant to my point. The more people on the steam ecosystem, the better for them. It is far easier to use steam on the steam deck than any of the options you put forward. Even so, not preventing their use means people are more likely to buy the steam deck, which in turn means they are more likely to use steam as their primary store.

    Epic, etc are not a default and at the beginning were not easy to get working.

    Oh and you got it the wrong. Those things support the steam deck (usually via third party hacks), the steam deck doesn't support them, it you would be able to install them from the steam store with tight integration into the library by default. It just doesn't prevent them. That is a BIG difference. But yes, doing similar things on other hardware might not be possible or at least as easy. I'm grateful their are so many enthusiasts out there making such things possible.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

    I quite explicitly named lutris and heroic which are 3rd party apps. These apps are installable via Discover which is the app store running on the OS. I'd agree the wording could be seen as ambiguous.

    Sony and Xbox do NOT support any other app stores on their devices - I think the use of support is clear and understandable in this statement.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Yes Discover is part of the Linux distro, not the valve added value. It is by virtue of their choice to base on an established Linux rather than anything. Again lutris and heroic both support steam deck not the other way around.

    But none of this changes my original point. Valve wasn't you to use the steam store. The stream deck is a tool to get you to do that. You are free to bypass because they don't stop you, but they are willing to take a loss on hardware because they know it means more sales on the steam store. Or they wouldn't be here much longer.

    You seem to think if I were to write an app for Windows and release it tomorrow that it means Microsoft support my app.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    You seem to think if I were to write an app for Windows and release it tomorrow that it means Microsoft support my app.

    I did not say that at all.

    The road outside my house supports cars, lorries, bicycles and foot traffic. If I breakdown on that road the local govt. will not come and fix my car.

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  • [–] 88 points 11 months ago (16 children)

    Mmmm billionaire boot must be delicious

    Steam is not a bad company but it is still a company that holds a lot of power, don’t forget that.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    It seems from your response that you have at least some desire to educate... Why must that also come with derision?

    It isn't that hard to convey a message without such a contemptuous tone, and I'd venture to guess it would be more likely to persuade. Someone has seen some good in a thing. You can disagree without scorn.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    My apologies, this community is generally memey/jokey in tone, and I was going with that. /gen

    I’m also firing off dumb comments at like 2 am where I am, lol. Please do not take my short soundbites (text bites?) seriously.

    On a more serious note, one billion dollars is a legitimately unfathomable amount of wealth and, by extension, unilateral power. That’s a dangerous thing for any one person to hold, regardless of how kind their heart is since it means the use of that power is dependent on the whims of one person.

    Corporations are also, by their nature, driven by a profit motive. A corporation can do non-evil, customer-friendly things but that can also change very quickly. It’s important to differentiate between beneficial behavior and altruism.

    Also, I typically don’t expect people to read my unsolicited soapboxing rants under a green text meme lol.

    Also also, I am quite appreciative of the benefits of Valve’s efforts. I just don’t assume they’re purely doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. Nor do I expect/demand them to.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I've lurked on Lemmy for over a year and this post, for whatever reason, compelled me to register an account to respond; I took your comment to be a tad critical. It seems I may've misread the room here - my apologies if so. I agree wholeheartedly with pretty much all you've said. Thanks for the response.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago

    Your concerns are valid since text is hard to interpret due to lack of inflection, context, and other intonation indicators. I try to remember to use tone tags but don’t always.

    Thank you for your thoughtful responses and engagement, though. Good faith discussion is an important thing on the web, and is a large part of why I like Lemmy over Reddit and other centralized social media sites. I appreciate you for that and adding to the constructiveness and positivity :) /gen

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  • [+] 19 points 11 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Hmmm. Everyone takes Steam refunds for granted now. But until late 2015 they refused to do refunds for any kind of game purchase, even if the game was literally unplayable by buyers - until they were dragged through the courts by the ACCC and fined, with similar legal demands happening from the EU around the same time.

    Dunno if I'd call that, "never abused their power to the disadvantage of customers".

    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/australia-fines-valve-over-steam-refunds

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  • [+] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Their policy was that if a game was activated on your account then you were not entitled to a refund. The fact that they pulled some games from the store due to significant complaints about those individual titles (or at publisher request), and subsequently decided to make an exception to refund that particular game for some people does not disprove that their standard policy was 'you are not entitled to a refund'.

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    And if they get rid of most of the competition then they can treat us like garbage and we'd have nowhere to go.

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  • [–] 39 points 11 months ago

    If Valve would want to do that, they could have done so years ago. To the contrary, there are more stores where you can buy games online then ever before (Epic, Windows Store, GOG, Itch.io, Fanatical, Humble and so on, with steam keys and without), and i haven't heard of a single aqcuisition by Valve yet.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago

    When he dies gaming is indie.

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago

    2 words though "Kiddie gambling".

    Sure Steam is one of the less evil companies out there, but they're far from innocent.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Unfortunately gaming might already be dead with these RAM prices and Micron giving up on the consumer space. Unless Valve wants to start buying chips wholesale and selling DIMM and SODIMM modules.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Love live Lord Gaben!

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    I'm sus on GabeN

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