Overtaxed and unpaid air traffic controllers are resigning “every day” due to stress from the government shutdown.

“Controllers are resigning every day now because of the prolonged nature of the shutdown,” Nick Daniels, president of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, told CNN.

“We hadn’t seen that before. And we’re also 400 controllers short—shorter than we were in the 2019 shutdown.”

Air traffic controllers are federal workers, which means they are part of the approximately 730,000 federal employees working without pay since the shutdown began on Oct. 1.

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[–] 319 points 1 year ago (23 children)

Democrats proposed a bill that all Federal employees get paid during the shutdown. GOP said no.

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  • [–] 75 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    They should propose a bill that makes a lapse in appropriations trigger a CR so there’s no need for a shutdown.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (12 children)
  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Continuing resolution. Basically if they can’t make a new budget the old one gets used.

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    ... kinda like every other sensible nation ON EARTH. Sigh.

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  • [–] 51 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Not really.

    In Canada and other parliamentary type systems, failing to pass a budget triggers an election.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Good point. That definitely disrupts things to some extent -- but the government doesn't literally stop everything, AFAIK. Don't departments still get their funding throughout, until the new government passes another budget?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago*

    No, you are right, things don't just stop when that happens. I imagine funding could lapse if it was about to lapse, but just because there isn't a budget passed yet doesn't mean its immediately going to lapse.

    If we somehow had a budget fail, and for some reason took 6 months to have an election (would never happen), we might run into funding issues?

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    God, that sounds so nice. If you play these stupid games then you instantly end up on the chopping block. That fixes so many issues.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    To be fair, our FPTP system does tend to create majority governments so this wouldn't ever be an issue then as they can pass anything they want. We might be having an election though if this current minority government budget fails which it might.

    It'd be nice if we could move to proportional representation though as majority governments are almost always with well less than 50% of the vote and vote splitting fucks things up for center/ledt parties and let's the conservatives win more because they consolidated into 1 party including all the extreme right whackjobs

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Didn't have that until a decade or so back? Thought I remembered we switched to this system so Republicans could reevaluate each time/hold everything hostage...

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States#Overview

    Shutdowns have occurred since 1980 when the Justice Department issued a legal opinion that government operations need to cease in a lapse of appropriations to prevent violation of the Anti-Deficiency Act. I believe the opinion was rendered during the Carter Administration.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Ah, thanks for the correction!

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Kinda weird that's not already the default behavior.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Not really. You're coming at it assuming the point of the system is to benefit the majority of the people. It is not., and the people who do benefit have a vested interest in ensuring things do not change.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    And things ended up this way because in 1776 they had little idea of how their rules were going to play out but they had to choose something to get started and they hoped it would get fixed with time.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Leadership believes they would be unable to cobble together enough votes to pass a budget if there wasn't the threat of a shutdown to hang over the Representatives.

    Voters in the US tend to elect Representatives who are unwilling to compromise. Being obstructionist is rewarded with way better re-election chances than getting anything done. Voters want to see their candidate Stand Up To The Enemy, although they will accept passage of a Perfect Bill (as annointed by their media of choice). Passing a bill that is later deemed by their media of choice to have any small non-perfection gets them primaried and booted. So any candidate that doesn't have extensive cover for passing a budget, that by its nature has to be a compromise, is replaced by a more obstructionist person.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The first time I'm reading about this. If the situation were reversed Republicans would be on every show everywhere repeating this taking point.

    Democrats need to fucking hammer the Republicans on this 24/7 on every outlet possible.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    As with most dishes, a sauce would be wonderrful

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    The bill is called "The true shutdown fairness act", and it is a poorly named response to the republican "shutdown fairness act".

    The main differences between the bills (which aren't really covered in the news, but you can read the bills) is that the shutdown fairness act was limited to excepted employees (those who have to work without pay), as well as some military personnel and some contractors. But it gave trump discretion about who could get paid, and did nothing for furloughed employees, nor guarantee all service members or contractors get paid (again, because it allowed trump to pick and choose)

    The true shutdown fairness act aimed to ensure all federal employees and service members get paid, and prevent mass firings during the shutdown. I don't know/understand why this bill was rejected (I'll edit if I can find anything)

    This post and this post go into a bit more detail.

    Edit: I can't find a news article with direct quotes, but this is part of the ai overview (so take it with a grain of salt)

    Underlying reasons: Democrats opposed the Republican bill because they felt it would grant the President too much power to decide which employees would be paid and which would not. Republicans, in turn, blocked the Democratic bill, with Johnson expressing concern that it would limit the President's ability to manage the government and potentially reduce the workforce.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    Senator Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), who introduced a bill to pay both federal workers required to work during the shutdown and those who are furloughed. This proposal was supported by several unions representing federal workers but was ultimately blocked by Senate Democrats. https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/07/politics/shutdown-congress-federal-pay-vote

    So I'm confused. Was this another bill?

    E: https://lemmy.world/comment/20388431 helped clear that up a bit. Thanks friend.

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  • [+] 125 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 98 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    So we can expect massive problems going into the busiest travel time of the year?

    Thanks, Obama!

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  • [–] 78 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Also next year and the year after since this is a permanent reduction in the workforce.

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  • [–] 63 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Ahh Reagan, he may not be the only one that caused us to get to where we are, but he did a phenomenal job teaching the next generation how to fuck up everything for everyone.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    He's pretty much directly responsible for the atc problems. Their union went on strike during his presidency and he did mass firings and union busting. It takes years to fully train and qualify an atc and the job has an incredible amount of stress. They aren't easy to recruit and train. We've had a national shortage of atc since his firings. If he had negotiated with them in good faith we wouldn't have had a sudden shortage that we couldn't catch up from then and their working conditions would have improved making them easier to recruit and train.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    So to be fair, it was illegal for them to strike. No government worker, federal, state, or local, is allowed to strike. This is why blue outs (originally police all calling sick at the same time but now applied to all government workers) are a thing.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    So many of today's problems are because of the Confederate Party, and the kinds of things they did and the things they schemed about since Nixon and since Ronnie Raygun especially.

    They were thoroughly outraged that Nixon had to resign in complete disgrace and vowed to combat that in the media space at least. Ronnie Raygun's maladministration helped to enable that with the dismantling of the Fairness Doctrine....

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The very last thing you want on a job is old timers who have been through terrible situations and know shortcuts and tricks to get through it.

    Institutional memory? Bah! We have MBA's!

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    They’re gonna stick AI in there and then the body count is gonna skyrocket.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I say good. People need to feel this and they need to know exactly why it is happening. It needs to be undeniable.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Sounds like no one invited you anywhere for Thanksgiving.

    Funny how some people are always ready to have other folks suffer for a good cause.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Lol yeah you got me.

    I have to believe that you are purposely misconstruing my comment. I don't want any of this to happen. I have, however, been paying close attention to politics for over two decades now, and I know what it takes for even a small % of these people to ever consider changing their minds about politics.

    These people are pathologically stubborn in the face of new evidence. They will do the exact opposite of what a scientist says they should do simply because they made them feel stupid for suggesting they might know better.

    They also believe empathy is evil, and therefore a huge chunk of them are literally incapable of grasping something until it affects them directly. We've seen it happen over and over and over again.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Right, but the issue here is that nobody agrees on who is at fault. Nobody is given reason to change their minds, because it's "the other side" causing it, regardless of which side they're on. It's a problem that is definitely affecting real people, but "we're not the ones causing it" is an easy way to ignore responsibility.

    That's not to say the shutdown should end, or that it isn't obvious that the administration isn't willing to come to the table, but I don't think I agree with your above point that there's anything undeniable to be found.

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  • [–] 53 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    ”Controllers are resigning every day now because of the prolonged nature of the shutdown [...] We hadn’t seen that before."

    Well, none of the other shutdowns have gone on this long. I'm also struggling to remember any shutdown that's gone on for any length in an economy this clearly bad and heading further downhill. Nor has there ever been a shutdown where the head of the government has said they won't be paid in the end for time worked. It makes perfect sense for the ATC's to prioritize themselves, their families and their finances over a system that consistently and chronically under-values them, over-works and over-stresses them, and has explicitly declared it has no loyalty or concern for the people who work there.

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I hope we can all agree that people should not be furloughed or working without pay during this shutdown but something I haven't seen reported on is the effect this will have on economies locally and nationally.

    Napkin math so someone correct me if needed:

    • 4.5 million furloughed or working without pay.
    • Average salary I found was $68,000 but let's use 50,000 to account for the top paying jobs probably still getting paid.
    • That gives us $4,166 monthly.
    • For each month of shutdown that comes to $18,747,000,000 that isn't being spent

    While I'm sure most of us Americans could do with less consumption, I can't help but wonder how many small businesses are going to suffer from this. This is especially true for areas with large amounts of federal employment.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    There are actually projections for the economic downturn to come that do and don't factor in the government shutdown reaching thanksgiving, then Christmas. So it is being considered in terms of consumer spending as a whole, but you mentioned small businesses specifically, and they are the ones that will be hurt more than anyone in what's to come. Although, I'm seeing more and more local-only-economies pop up, where you all try to keep money within the network of the community.

    The projections I saw were for the economy to level off by 1Q 2026, but if the shutdown reaches Christmas, it'll actually shrink an entire point.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Small businesses were already disproportionately suffering from the capricious tariff situation. And areas with large federal employment specifically were already suffering from the Doge chainsaw layoffs. This administration is just piling it on.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    A plane is gonna crash because of overworked atc and then they'll declare it terrorism and invoke martial law.

    Mark my words.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Bah, they will just blame democrates...

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    We all know the real reason is DEI! /s

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If I see a black air traffic controller I am gonna be like “Boy, I hope he is qualified.”

    Which is exactly what Jesus would have been like.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I just got off my flight to Mexico. I have no idea if I’m getting home. It wasn’t a dealbreaker for the trip..

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They want to privatize this mark my words. AIATC incoming...

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  • [–] 74 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    He's planning on using the military to take over the airports, like they did in the Revolutionary War .

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    He's not paying the military either, not sure how well that'll work for him.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Didn't some billionaire step up to pay the military? Because that sounds like such a great fucking idea. What could go wrong.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Given my expectations of the regime, they will be fully staffed by military ATC.

    Military ATC is not Civilian ATC.

    This is going to be a worse shitshow than I anticipated just in air travel.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago*

    Trump believes he can do what Reagan did. The only issue is the current ATC system is 16000 controllers compared to 12000 in the 80’s and the military has around 3500 controllers which is almost identical to the number in the 80’s. There is no way the military can cover the same traffic as civilian controllers can, and unlike Reagan the current world is much more reliant on air travel.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Pedo Antoinette might just get the ending he deserves sooner rather than later

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    The minute that the controller shortage fucks the wrong wealthy person’s private jet trip suddenly everything will magically be fixed.

    He picked a terrible time to frontload this issue by giving rich people extra tax writeoffs on private jets. Theyre gonna be pissed if their new private jets become useless

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    The retired controllers should unionize, and put forth an option for future non-Turdpublican administrations to rehire them for fair wages, compensation, and benefits. It would be cheaper and easier than hiring fresh faces and hoping for the best.

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  • Yeah, they have essential skills and experience and are almost impossible to replace, especially at short notice. We don't tend to think of them when we fly, but they're a reason we survive the experience. And given the stress of their jobs, IMO whatever they're getting paid isn't enough. And now they're not getting paid at all.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    That worked out well in the '80s...

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I don’t believe they "resigned" in the 80s. They went on strike.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    A distinction without a difference.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Do explain how the active ATC employees trying to unionize is the same as retired ATC employees unionizing and offering thier services is not different?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    If they try to unionize and strike, it will just get cancelled like biden did with the railroad strike a few years ago. Or knowing trump, they will just get outright fired.

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  • Yeah, the commenter suggested the "retired" atc unionize and offer to return for a while to help out. The next commentor said that didn't go so well during the Regan year, but that was the active ATC. The retired atc can't strike... they are retired.

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