Democrats proposed a bill that all Federal employees get paid during the shutdown. GOP said no.
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So we can expect massive problems going into the busiest travel time of the year?
Thanks, Obama!
Also next year and the year after since this is a permanent reduction in the workforce.
Thanks Reagan!
Ahh Reagan, he may not be the only one that caused us to get to where we are, but he did a phenomenal job teaching the next generation how to fuck up everything for everyone.
He's pretty much directly responsible for the atc problems. Their union went on strike during his presidency and he did mass firings and union busting. It takes years to fully train and qualify an atc and the job has an incredible amount of stress. They aren't easy to recruit and train. We've had a national shortage of atc since his firings. If he had negotiated with them in good faith we wouldn't have had a sudden shortage that we couldn't catch up from then and their working conditions would have improved making them easier to recruit and train.
So many of today's problems are because of the Confederate Party, and the kinds of things they did and the things they schemed about since Nixon and since Ronnie Raygun especially.
They were thoroughly outraged that Nixon had to resign in complete disgrace and vowed to combat that in the media space at least. Ronnie Raygun's maladministration helped to enable that with the dismantling of the Fairness Doctrine....
The very last thing you want on a job is old timers who have been through terrible situations and know shortcuts and tricks to get through it.
Institutional memory? Bah! We have MBA's!
They’re gonna stick AI in there and then the body count is gonna skyrocket.
Oh lord...... and you know that there is someone actually considering this too.
I mean I wouldn’t want to have a federal position now…. Who knows when you could next be expected to work with no pay for a month or more because a bunch of fascist babies aren’t quite getting their way.
I say good. People need to feel this and they need to know exactly why it is happening. It needs to be undeniable.
Sounds like no one invited you anywhere for Thanksgiving.
Funny how some people are always ready to have other folks suffer for a good cause.
Lol yeah you got me.
I have to believe that you are purposely misconstruing my comment. I don't want any of this to happen. I have, however, been paying close attention to politics for over two decades now, and I know what it takes for even a small % of these people to ever consider changing their minds about politics.
These people are pathologically stubborn in the face of new evidence. They will do the exact opposite of what a scientist says they should do simply because they made them feel stupid for suggesting they might know better.
They also believe empathy is evil, and therefore a huge chunk of them are literally incapable of grasping something until it affects them directly. We've seen it happen over and over and over again.
Right, but the issue here is that nobody agrees on who is at fault. Nobody is given reason to change their minds, because it's "the other side" causing it, regardless of which side they're on. It's a problem that is definitely affecting real people, but "we're not the ones causing it" is an easy way to ignore responsibility.
That's not to say the shutdown should end, or that it isn't obvious that the administration isn't willing to come to the table, but I don't think I agree with your above point that there's anything undeniable to be found.
”Controllers are resigning every day now because of the prolonged nature of the shutdown [...] We hadn’t seen that before."
Well, none of the other shutdowns have gone on this long. I'm also struggling to remember any shutdown that's gone on for any length in an economy this clearly bad and heading further downhill. Nor has there ever been a shutdown where the head of the government has said they won't be paid in the end for time worked. It makes perfect sense for the ATC's to prioritize themselves, their families and their finances over a system that consistently and chronically under-values them, over-works and over-stresses them, and has explicitly declared it has no loyalty or concern for the people who work there.
I hope we can all agree that people should not be furloughed or working without pay during this shutdown but something I haven't seen reported on is the effect this will have on economies locally and nationally.
Napkin math so someone correct me if needed:
- 4.5 million furloughed or working without pay.
- Average salary I found was $68,000 but let's use 50,000 to account for the top paying jobs probably still getting paid.
- That gives us $4,166 monthly.
- For each month of shutdown that comes to $18,747,000,000 that isn't being spent
While I'm sure most of us Americans could do with less consumption, I can't help but wonder how many small businesses are going to suffer from this. This is especially true for areas with large amounts of federal employment.
There are actually projections for the economic downturn to come that do and don't factor in the government shutdown reaching thanksgiving, then Christmas. So it is being considered in terms of consumer spending as a whole, but you mentioned small businesses specifically, and they are the ones that will be hurt more than anyone in what's to come. Although, I'm seeing more and more local-only-economies pop up, where you all try to keep money within the network of the community.
The projections I saw were for the economy to level off by 1Q 2026, but if the shutdown reaches Christmas, it'll actually shrink an entire point.
Small businesses were already disproportionately suffering from the capricious tariff situation. And areas with large federal employment specifically were already suffering from the Doge chainsaw layoffs. This administration is just piling it on.
A plane is gonna crash because of overworked atc and then they'll declare it terrorism and invoke martial law.
Mark my words.
Bah, they will just blame democrates...
We all know the real reason is DEI! /s
If I see a black air traffic controller I am gonna be like “Boy, I hope he is qualified.”
Which is exactly what Jesus would have been like.
I just got off my flight to Mexico. I have no idea if I’m getting home. It wasn’t a dealbreaker for the trip..
They want to privatize this mark my words. AIATC incoming...
He's planning on using the military to take over the airports, like they did in the Revolutionary War .
He's not paying the military either, not sure how well that'll work for him.
Didn't some billionaire step up to pay the military? Because that sounds like such a great fucking idea. What could go wrong.
Given my expectations of the regime, they will be fully staffed by military ATC.
Military ATC is not Civilian ATC.
This is going to be a worse shitshow than I anticipated just in air travel.
Trump believes he can do what Reagan did. The only issue is the current ATC system is 16000 controllers compared to 12000 in the 80’s and the military has around 3500 controllers which is almost identical to the number in the 80’s. There is no way the military can cover the same traffic as civilian controllers can, and unlike Reagan the current world is much more reliant on air travel.
Pedo Antoinette might just get the ending he deserves sooner rather than later
The minute that the controller shortage fucks the wrong wealthy person’s private jet trip suddenly everything will magically be fixed.
He picked a terrible time to frontload this issue by giving rich people extra tax writeoffs on private jets. Theyre gonna be pissed if their new private jets become useless
The retired controllers should unionize, and put forth an option for future non-Turdpublican administrations to rehire them for fair wages, compensation, and benefits. It would be cheaper and easier than hiring fresh faces and hoping for the best.
Yeah, they have essential skills and experience and are almost impossible to replace, especially at short notice. We don't tend to think of them when we fly, but they're a reason we survive the experience. And given the stress of their jobs, IMO whatever they're getting paid isn't enough. And now they're not getting paid at all.
That worked out well in the '80s...
Were they already very short with no hope of hiring enough for years when fired a bunch of them?
I don’t believe they "resigned" in the 80s. They went on strike.
And then were fired.
Yeah, so not the same thing.
A distinction without a difference.
Do explain how the active ATC employees trying to unionize is the same as retired ATC employees unionizing and offering thier services is not different?
If they try to unionize and strike, it will just get cancelled like biden did with the railroad strike a few years ago. Or knowing trump, they will just get outright fired.
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