The US and Israel voted against?! I am shocked, SHOCKED! Well, not that shocked.
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At the risk of getting banned, when I only saw one country in red and “2” in the summary l knew exactly where on the map I needed to zoom to find the second
I had the exact same thought. If you could really be banned for saying that ISRAEL is a scourge on the planet earth for starving an entire population of innocent people, I’d rather not be on .world anyway.
it really is impressive (and terrifying, if i'm being honest) just how...extensive and all encompassing this Israeli/AIPAC propaganda is.
like...it's so bad that I don't even feel comfortable thinking on it too much, because what if I'm falling into some antisemitic rabbithole that blames the jews for everything? the start of some alt-right pipeline?
but then it's undeniable, that there is a concerted effort to suppress any and all information about israel's atrocities across the western world, with plenty of jews in positions of power essentially sanctioning it.
When you make the distinction that there are more christian zionists than Jewish ones calling out their bullshit cant be considered antisemitic
I'd add that it is not only Jews doing it, and a lot of Jews you will meet are not complicit. In fact, they are most likely being marginalised by their own communities.
Also, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's a publicly admitted Israeli effort, look up hasbara on Wikipedia.
So you’re denying your own obvious observations because you disagree with some of the other people that hold those thoughts?
consider me recently (re)awakened, also i don't entirely trust my own memories/experience if I'm being entirely honest.
i'v done some psychedelics in the past and know how fragile (fluid?) the human mind/pysche can be
also I'm kind of like a dog that was never socialized properly, so just in general things are new to me
Some communities have weird stances on where they draw the line. To some extent, I have sympathy, because it can be quite easy for a discussion to devolve into shit slinging that involves surprise Zionists popping up, and often legitimate antisemitism ends up appearing if mods aren't able to stay on top of things (by "legitimate antisemitism", I mostly mean stuff that indirectly conflates Israel with Jewish people by using antisemitic rhetoric to attack Israel). Some communities may have fewer mods, or a culture that leads to discussions becoming toxic sooner.
This community is a good counter example to the culture problem. There's been a lot of harshly worded comments against Israel in this thread (reasonably so), but I haven't seen anything that falls into the trap I describe above, but that's no doubt a credit both to the culture of this place, and the efforts of the mods here
Considering the biblical law laid out charity as a rule (don't harvest the edges of your field, allow the poor etc. to eat from it)
I didn't realize how small Israel was until now! Your comment definitely helped me find it though.
Afaiu having a brain and stating facts are only bannable offenses over at that Reddit shithole.
Nevertheless I wish you luck 😅
But this is .world, where key super mods have removed people calling out the US/Israel several times.
JordanLund and Seriunus are two prime examples. Power mods who remove you if you prove them wrong. Serinus even said that "from the river to the sea, palestine will be free" is actually antisemetic, and the admins didn't do anything about it, nor JL's constant power abuse when he was wrong. Even after the admins took over a month to do something, they just dumped entire load onto JonsJava, which made him leave in protest of the Admin doing that without talking to him.
If im gonna call Israel a terrorist colony theres no fear of getting banned by me
Hey that looks like this map!

Ok boomer
Lol I see somebody read another post recently....
I keep that map in my favorites to post
The CRC grants rights to children [^1]; e.g., right to health care, right to education, right to be protected from economic exploitation or hazardous or harmful works... It also expects that states fix a minimun age to work but not forbid children to work.
Please, stop justify the USA and Israel with false and racist arguments.
[^1]: human being below the age of eighteen years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier. Source: CRC
I'm sorry about your rash. /s
That's not a real argument, just typical whatabout-ism.
countries that host the child factories
Ah yes, the dreaded child factories. The ones in Sweden are particularly bad. Bought a defective child a few months back. Kept asking for food.
Don't take it so hard, it was a joke.
Notice that you didn't deny engaging in whataboutism.
I suggest we change the name of the fallacy from tu quoque to y tu mama tambien.
The irony of course being that you think whataboutism is when you simply change the topic to an unrelated one (that's what you're implying). When in fact it refers to the act of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation on the same subject instead of offering an explanation. Which is exactly what you did.
So as it turns out, you're the one who actually doesn't know what whataboutism means, and basically self-reported your ignorance. I wasn't expecting this plot twist - it's laughable given how simple of a concept it is.
But hey, keep digging that hole. Let's see how deep you can go.
Tip: to find the other one, zoom in on the middle east
to people saying the resolution is useless theatrics and just symbolic. then if there were no consequences, why the fuck would the US and Israel vote against it?
Because they're assholes on principle.
These resolutions are toothless without the materials and logistics to implement them. Food should be a right and it's an easy thing to vocally support (unless you're manufacturing a famine in Gaza).
But how do you relieve the famine in Sudan if you're unwilling to export agricultural surplus at below market rates from Southern Europe? How do you meet global human demand for fresh produce if you're dedicating enormous qualities of arable land to high profit, low yield livestock? These generic statements of principle don't actually change how and why food is distributed.
And those are just the "capitalism bad" dumb lefty critiques.
What about in a war zone? Should we be feeding Russians occupying Ukraine? What about Israel settlers in the West Bank or Han Chinese in Xinjiang and Tibet or illegal Hamas ISIS Haitian Cartel MS-13 terrorists attacking people's dogs in Cleveland, Ohio?
Shouldn't we be killing these people instead?
Should we be feeding Russians occupying Ukraine?
they should have their own logistics, and if surrendered/captured then yes, 100% we should feed them
What about Israel settlers in the West Bank
Illegal settlers likely already get plenty of assistance and welfare. But if there was justice, they would be captured as invaders and deported back to Israel borders, and fed during custody
Han Chinese in Xinjiang and Tibet or illegal Hamas ISIS Haitian Cartel MS-13 terrorists attacking people’s dogs in Cleveland, Ohio?
I lost track, but if captured, then yes, otherwise as long as you aren't actively blocking food from entering (a literal war crime) then it is acceptable.
they should have their own logistics
"Everyone has a right to eat, but not everyone should have the right to the logistical supply chain that they need to receive the food" is UN doublespeak in a nutshell.
I am pretty sure if you have a military invading another country, it should be your responsibility to feed them.
And if they get hungry and surrender just to eat, because the "enemy" is following international law, the that is good.
Also, there are programs to feed starving people, but it is often blocked by malicious states (like Israel). There is no demand for Israel to feed Gaza, but there is demand for them to not block existing aid from coming in.
And if they get hungry and surrender just to eat, because the “enemy” is following international law
If its international law to guarantee everyone gets fed and you are able to defeat an military by starving out the host population (a technique the Israelis are claiming is being used to defeat Hamas) then how are you following international law?
Also, there are programs to feed starving people
Well, Israel is breaching international law, and way too many western nations are complicit in that genocide.
There's a difference between attacking enemy supply lines and blocking food from entering a civilian urban area.
Sure. And you can know the difference. And I can know the difference.
And the UN Security Council can pretend not to know the difference.
isn't it being vetoed by the US?
despite how much good the UN has done. it is an incredibly flawed institution, and the US having veto powers is a massive problem.
The US is vetoing and the rest of the member states are shrugging and announcing "Guess there's nothing we can do".
Europe has doubled its weapons trade with Israel since the genocide began. Arab States are expanding their trade with Israel despite internal domestic calls for boycott. The so-called ceasefire is only furthering cover for Israel's largest partners to get back to business as usual.
Honestly I don't know how to even process the fact that this is a globally endorsed genocide. Very few states are doing the bare minimum about it, like Spain which made an embargo on weapons sold to Israel (still trading with Israel though, just not weapons).
At least in the Holocaust you could point to a few countries being openly evil. but here? how the fuck is the whole world sponsoring a genocide???
And if they get hungry and surrender just to eat, because the “enemy” is following international law
If its international law to guarantee everyone gets fed and you are able to defeat an military by starving out the host population (a technique the Israelis are claiming is being used to defeat Hamas) then how are you following international law?
I think it's about the enemy soldiers starving into surrender, not the civilian populace. Surely this doesn't mean you are not allowed to attack the supply lines of an invading army inside your own borders?
Or... does it?
A quick google yields the resolution: https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3954949?ln=en&v=pdf#files
Starting to read it...
It... starts with six pages of "recalling this", "acknowledging that"? Are UN resolutions like patents, where only a small fraction of the text is actually meaningful? Maybe I should find a guide for reading them first...
Found one: https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/31493
What's actually important about these italicized words is the division between the preambulary and operative clauses as a whole. Whereas the preamble uses gerunds such as "Reaffirming" and "Recalling" and similar terms, the operative clauses, which are binding, use terms such as "Decides" "Appeals" and "Approves".
So... I need to look at the first word of each paragraph, determine whether or not it's operative, and if it is it's worth reading the rest of the paragraph?
- Stresses that all States should make all efforts to ensure that their international policies of a political and economic nature, including international trade agreements, do not have a negative impact on the right to food in other countries;
Only "of a political and economic nature". Are military actions considered as "political"?
Finished reading. Paragraph (is that the right name for these things?) number 30 was the only thing even remotely related to the question of an invading army. And even that relation was very, very remote.
Then again - I could have missed it. This is my first time reading a UN resolution, and man... these things are obfuscated. Why are they so obfuscated? Not as obfuscated as patents, but at least there there is a (nefarious) reason for the obfuscation. Why does the UN want to obstruct people from understanding its resolutions?
I think it’s about the enemy soldiers starving into surrender, not the civilian populace.
Shy of magic, that's not a policy you can implement. Either people in a region have access to food or they don't. You can't just put a stamp on a loaf of bread that makes it inedible to anyone carrying a gun.
Are UN resolutions like patents, where only a small fraction of the text is actually meaningful?
:-/
A lot of it is legalese that matters much more to an actual court system than a random layman picking through the fine print. But yes, broadly speaking a central critique of the UN has been its habit of going out and announcing "Bad Thing Is Bad" and then failing to do much to back that statement up.
At the same time, when the UN has intervened... well... look at the horror show that was the Korean War. Nevermind the intervention and occupation of Yugoslavia or Somalia. Or the Oil for Food Scandal with regard to Iraq.
I mean, the fundamental problem with the UN is that its still composed of many of the countries that are actively participating or tangentially benefiting in whatever horrible thing they're supposed to be preventing. Much like any republican institution, you're stuck with people who were put there by the corrupt institutions they're supposed to police. How do you untangle that web? Ask Alexander the Great, maybe.
Shy of magic, that’s not a policy you can implement. Either people in a region have access to food or they don’t. You can’t just put a stamp on a loaf of bread that makes it inedible to anyone carrying a gun.
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Again - I believe Albert was specifically talking about denying food from the soldiers of the invading enemy army.
Unless the enemy is in there long enough to start farming your land, their only have two options to get food - they can bring it from their home country (or some other country they control, or one that's friendly enough to sell it to them) or they can try to get it from your country. You can sabotage their first option by attacking their supply lines, and as for the second option - hopefully your own citizens won't give them food, either because they don't want to be invaded or because they are afraid of their own government. Or both. Either way, you'll have to protect them, of course, because the invading army may try to steal food from them.
Even if you do everything right you probably won't be able to hermetically block their food supply - but you may be able to dwindle it enough to starve them. It takes a lot of food to feed an army.
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Regardless - never underestimate the human ingenuity when it comes to inflicting harm on other human beings.
denying food from the soldiers of the invading enemy army.
How do you deliver food to a local population so an invading army can't get it?
you may be able to dwindle it enough to starve them
Who is going to starve first? The folks with guns or the folks without?
never underestimate the human ingenuity when it comes to inflicting harm on other human beings.
Right. I guess the UN teasing the idea of famine relief and pulling back on it is part of that.
You'll need to send your own army anyway to protect your people from the invading enemy, and one of the duties of the troops stated there is to make sure your resources are not stolen by the enemy.
You’ll need to send your own army anyway
UN "Peacekeepers" have their own historical baggage to carry, especially in Sub-Saharan Africa. If food distribution is predicated on foreign military occupation, its not a human right.
I'm not sure we are on the same page here. I'm claiming that since the invaded country needs to send its own troops (not UN troops) to protect its land and its people from the invading army, then the soldiers of the invaded country are positioned to make sure the resources of the invaded country reach to the citizens of the invaded country and not get stolen by the invading army.
At no point in this process any country needs to sends forces to another country to protect the nutritional rights of the citizens of that other country.
the soldiers of the invaded country are positioned to make sure the resources of the invaded country reach to the citizens of the invaded country
That's never been how military operations function in practice. The primary goal of a military advance is to seize and hold the most defensible territory, not to secure supplies to a civilian population caught in the no-man's land between fronts.
Again, this goes back to the Israel/Gaza conflict. Palestinian anti-IDF insurgents were in no position to attack Israeli border guards at Rafa to open up aid from Egypt. Or secure fishing along the Mediterranean coast, much less to launch a naval war and open aid from Turkiye or mainland Europe. Their primary mission was survival and countersurveillance against Israeli strikes. Their secondary goal was decapitation of Israeli military and seizure of Israeli military assets. Trying to open up trade wasn't something they could begin to consider in their current depleted state.
At no point in this process any country needs to sends forces to another country to protect the nutritional rights of the citizens of that other country.
If one country has the ability to lay siege to another and starve its people, and no other country has an obligation to break the siege and deliver food to the civilian population, then there is no "human right to food" in any tangible sense.
You might as well tell Eric Garner "You have a right to breath, but I have no obligation to get that boot off your neck". Its exactly the kind of meaningless faux-humanitarian double-speak that defines the modern UN.
On a practical level, what would it mean to make food a human right?
Water is a human right, and there is a somewhat vague statement that, if you have access to a tap and someone asks you for drinking water you have to give it. Already the applications are confusing, since most local laws impose such burden only on public spaces (with varying definitions of public spaces).
For food, what would that mean? How could that ever be implemented? Or is the vibe good enough?
to my knowledge it obligates governments to provide food to people who can't get food for reasons outside of their control such as prisoners, prisoners of war, and victims of natural disasters
In most countries, if your rights are violated, you can sue the one violating them and get them restored.
If food is a right and you can't get food, then you should be able to sue the government to give you food. After the first won case, further similar cases would be handled by precedent, thus kind of necessiting the government to create a system to get food to people.
For water being a right, it also means the corporations and government can't restrict you from accessing water. For example in most places you are allowed to access beach front or lake front property to get to the water. Some landlords and people complain in various situations but they legally have to have public access to a water body. I imagine for food, since corporations and landowners have occupied land or have land titles that would preclude you from growing your own, so somebody has to provide it if you can't access land to make it.
Water is a human right, and there is a somewhat vague statement that, if you have access to a tap and someone asks you for drinking water you have to give it.
At least here in the US, there's a fair bit of public infrastructure around water being a human right. Every establishment you walk into likely has a publicly-accessible fountain.
I imagine something similar would have to happen around food, and I don't think it would be that hard in practice. All we'd have to do is make it illegal for food vendors to trash edible food at the end of the day, but it'll never ever happen. We care more about the civic religion of capitalism than we do about people being able to eat.
Boston's main bus station literally doesn't have a water fountain. I had to ask McDonald's to fill my canteen with water, and she literally said no at first. I had to demand it, because there was no water fountain in the building
Oh wow. That's surprising. Here in KC I can't think of a single place I go that doesn't have them.
boston is where the rot destroying the USA began, and has continued over the centuries pretty much unfettered
the whole city is a trap designed to squeeze as much $ out of as many people from across the country/world as possible, but hey...atleast they got some bike lanes, and that's enough to keep their libs happy i guess.
It wouldn't make a difference, it's just moralist masturbation to put it bluntly. Declaring something as a human right doesn't magically open up a portal where we can take an infinite amount of "human right" goods, especially not under capitalism where water, food and everything else produced and extracted are commodities to be produced for profit
I fucking hate USA and Israel
Ironic countries to currently be the most like Nazi Germany, but here we are.
Nazi Germany was directly inspired by the US's manifest destiny, racist laws and racial theorists from the US, we blocked Jewish refugees from coming to the US in 30s and after the war gave several prominent Nazis positions in US organizations, the US is called 'The Great Satan' for a reason.
Yes, but we were also a large part of why Nazi Germany was defeated. Hence the irony.
If Germany stuck to genociding Jews in their own country there would be no war. Even the US didn't get involved until they got sttacked directly.
Regardless of the reason, it happened.
Right but you said it was ironic that the US is now like Nazi Germany. Implying they fought the Nazis out of anti-Nazism only to end up like Nazis themselves. That would indeed be ironic but that's not what happened. The US were always like Nazis, the Nazis were literally inspired by America. They only fought the Nazis because they were attacked not because they had some moral integrity.
The U.S. fought the Nazis because the U.S. predator class did not like the competition.
No, the irony in the US's case is that they were instrumental in their downfall, regardless of any hypocrisy. Germany were portrayed as the bad guys, the ultimate evil. And they were attacked by Japan, not Germany - they could have just gone after them, but chose to enter the whole war.
They went after Germany because Germany declared war on them when they went to war to war with Japan. There's nothing ironic about fascists getting into fights with fascists only to then... Still be fascist years later.
If the US weren't already fascist and went to fight the Nazis out of some sort of moral duty only to later wind up becoming Nazis themselves then yes that would be ironic.
Instrumental as in playing both sides until the very end and taking claim of victory when every other allied forces had been doing the heavy lifting for years that led up to Nazi defeat.
Sure, very “instrumental”
Don't let Hollywood and propaganda tell you otherwise tho.
Eh, its just earth. Bunch of assholes running things here thats for sure.




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