I came here around the time the rif app shut down, and the general vibe I get from this place is much more negative than when I joined. Is Lemmy growing more toxic or is it just my imagination?

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[+] 54 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    Exactly, it's not just lemmy, and it's not just the US either.

    Essentially it's late stage capitalism, the root of all our recent discontent in the past 30ish years. Enshittification of everything...

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I'd be really curios to see some sort of study done on this. I mean, it's not just americans and most of the west is not insulated from america, either, at least not online. and you don't know from talking to someone online where they're from. At the same time, there's rising fascism and neoliberalism bullshit in europe, too.

    I'd love to know how much of it is people getting antsier in general because they're in a shit situation and how much it's 'infectious' from talking with people in shit situations elsewhere, spreading bad vibes. Is this also happening in the chinese web? How about other countries that are more politically/economically aligned with the west but culturally less part of the english speaking web?

    There has to be some sociologist out there somewhere studying this, no? But i wouldn't know where to look. if anyone knows of something along those lines, i'd love to hear it.

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  • [–] 81 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    There has been a noticeable uptick in new rightist accounts lately.

    Instead of blocking people, I tag the bad actors in Voyager and have noticed that most of the toxicity comes from the same small group of specific people.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    That person is complaining about political axe-grinding seeping into every corner of every community. Yes they used a mild caricature of anti-Trumpism but this isn’t what I’d call a “rightist.” Although I am on the left, politically, I frequently argue with people here who are even further to the left. I don’t think chanting about seizing the means of production is… productive, and I say so. This probably makes me a “rightist account” in some people’s eyes. I’m also a bootlicker because I don’t advocate for lining up all CEOs in front of a firing squad.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's clear if you look at their other comments.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Actually yeah it just clicked for me what “TDS” is. I guess I didn’t have to go further than this very comment. Trump Derangement Syndrome is more than a mild caricature - it’s a codified partisan dismissal of all Trump criticism. Anyone who uses the term unironically is a Trumper.

    I withdraw my objection.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I haven't noticed much, but I do have a lot of people blocked...

    The most important thing for me is that the amount of truly thoughtful comments I've seen is higher than on any other platform I use.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    It doesn't feel unique to Lemmy to me. I'm seeing higher levels of hostility in just about any environment broad enough to include left and right wingers

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    I have been threatened and harassed in person multiple times the past few years. but left and right wingers. by trans and anti-trans folks, etc. i've had people shove and try to physically start fight with me while i was waiting for a takeout order or coffee.

    angry people just want to beat up any one that is in front of them. and they will see what they want to see. the angry left assumes i'm a meathead trump supporter, the angry right assumes i'm a soyboy homo.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I'm resisting the urge to jump to conclusions, however I can't help but observe that objectively there seems to be a common denominator in your situation. Either way, it sucks that that's been your experience and I hope things change for the better for you.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I have noticed more people inferring things from a small part of a reply and rather than read and try to understand it, they insted get upset about it and reply back about what they think the op said.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    Same with going off the headlines. I am well aware that we lose 90%+ of communication over text, but damn, some of these fucking people. You have to learn to couch your comment in such a way that even obvious sarcasm and the like is obvious.

    To all those joking about being autists and not getting social clues, I see you.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    It’s what comes with more users. As people you don’t know start writing in styles you’ve only seen parroting arguments you disagree with, the urge to shut things down increases.

    Plus, there ends up being more stuff to read in the same amount of time, which leads to shallower reading to cover it all.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    yep.

    i will write out three paragraphs... get multiple replies about like three words I said that are taken totally out of context.

    i'd say trolls/bots... but i know way too many people IRL who do the very same thing. they are just stupid assholes looking to cause drama to puff up themselves as 'outing' everyone as evil/bad because they are 'warriors' for justice. their entire existing is all about inflating their own ego and being willfully ignorant and their primary hobby in life is being 'offended' by anything/everything.

    what i can't get is why people like being around people like this... but they do for some reason.

    Same with going off the headlines. I am well aware that we lose 90%+ of communication over text, but damn, some of these fucking people. You have to learn to couch your comment in such a way that even obvious sarcasm and the like is obvious.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I noticed it a few months ago. It feels like a sudden, inorganic shift. Either all the good people have trickled off to a better basin, or someone or something has influenced Lemmy users

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Pretty sure Lemmy got on the influence bot radar some few months ago. Comments are now deeply negative and constantly drumming the 2FA and guillotine remedies to every complaint. Interactions outside of this kind of content I still find Lemmy users to be magnitudes higher quality than Reddit.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Everyone should keep in mind: Besides the darkened tone of the world seeping into nearly everything, this place is probably crawling with shit-stirrers of a slightly subtler flavor than your typical obnoxious troll.

    This effect might be from lemmy users in general hating everything about the world right now, or it might be the work of bots and/or illicitly paid humans fronting as the "general left." The type that reflects your viewpoints pretty well but injects their comments with a little something extra, inflaming you or depressing more than what seems reasonable, maybe pushing you a little closer to the edge, whatever that edge may be.

    We (or at least I) have no idea how much astroturfing is happening in the comments. It's probably best to take anything that seems peculiarly provocative with a grain of salad.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I don't think this place is big enough yet for my conspiracy theory to make any sense, but if I was the CEO of a company like Reddit and I wanted to prevent users moving to Lemmy I would make a bunch of accounts on here and spark as much drama and infighting as possible. And there's been so much of it lately, whether it be callout posts on different instances or people concern trolling under posts, that it does feel so inorganic. When you come on here hoping for a better place and you see users writing mini manifestos calling out another user's character flaws, it is extremely offputting.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago

    Hmm... maybe. The state of the world has been pretty awful for the past year so I imagine that plays a part. Aside from trolls, lots of us are on edge as the whole world seems to tilt right with propaganda and AI.

    That said, I like us.

    I browse bluesky too and find I actually prefer Lemmy because it's a bit more self-policing... Like regarding AI slop, bluesky is fucking rampant with it, like Trump dressed as a clown or Newsom with abs, it's fucking awful. Lemmy has a couple communities for AI but on average, you try that shit and you'll get publicly shamed. That could be considered mean, but I appreciate it (especially if it's AI I can't even tell).

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 147 points 1 year ago (49 children)

    Check your communities, and what instances they're on. Not all are created equal. lemmy.ml tends to be pretty wacko unless you're of their particular ideological alignment, lemmy.world is very very large and thus has a very very large number of obnoxious shitheads compared to other instances. On the other hand, beehaw.org is intentionally and pathologically positive. I also find lemmy.ca quite friendly, though I might be biased.

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  • [–] 64 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    Lemmy users are much more entrenched ideologically than an average layman. We all have strong opinions and it can get pretty heated. I avoid posting inflammatory posturing if I'm self aware enough. But I'm just as human and fallible as the rest.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Well, many of us are on the spectrum whether that be ADD, ADHD, Asperger's, or some other form of autism. Helps us to be highly technical and computer savvy, doesn't help so much with attempting to reframe "right and wrong," for most of us.

    Unfortunately the very entrenchment, ideologically speaking, that these particular "character traits" cause most of us to have, are being celebrated as "immunity to propaganda" in the media. The reality is that we have an innate sense of right and wrong, and that shit can get skewed all over the place in your formative years. The only remedy I have seen for this is the person intentionally exposing themselves to other cultures.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    ADD, ADHD, Asperger’s, or some other form of autism

    Wouldn't the latter fixate more on logic & more likely oppose neurotypical nonsense like biases & overdramatic outrage?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    This comment seems like an overly simplistic view

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    I see an attempt to attribute problematic conduct to conditions at least as likely to resist it & not necessarily promoting it.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

    And they think the real world is reflective of what we talk about here. It's truly bizarre. I'm terminally online, unemployed ATM, but I still get there's an outside world.

    Take all the Trump voter hate for example. Do they not truly understand how under and misinformed most Americans are? Watch Mamdami interview Trump voters in NYC. Not ONE was what we picture as MAGA.

    Also, since Trump 1.0, people refuse to talk politics. We're at a party last month and talking about my new, weird, .22 rifle. I started to bring up a thing in the Big Beautiful Bill that was on-topic and the only thing I find decent in it. "NO. We're not talking politics." "I'm NOT. I'm talking about one thing I think is cool and will help gun owners." Jesus. Now we gotta dance on eggshells.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Do they not truly understand how under and misinformed most Americans are?

    Um, that's exactly why we are pissed off at them. It's easier than ever to be informed yet people act like it's harder, somehow. Pretty fucking enraging.

    In my experience, no one but trumpers refuse to talk politics. And it's because they want to remain actively ignorant. Can't have anyone revealing the giant holes in their fucked worldview. You might turn them trans, after all.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    i’m on the spectrum and can’t handle political conversations if the other person is being confrontational. this doesn’t/shouldn’t make me a right winger, but would make you assume as much about me.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    Yeah, the total destruction of community and third-places is I think the #1 cause of the division of political discourse, but second is that people refuse to engage with other human beings on the topic. They watch TV or browse online, and they get one extremely biased view of the world. They don't share it with other people where they could get other points of view.

    It used to be people would get the paper and talk about it with each other, but that's taboo now. You take it to an online community who all agree with you. There's a reason why the infamous Thanksgiving family gathering caused strife. It's because people were actually having discussions and disagreements. Disagreement is healthy, but people seem allergic to it now.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Disagreement is only healthy if both people are approaching it with the desire to further their understanding

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Honestly, I disagree still. That's the ideal, but even just seeing that there are other opinions held by people you care about is good. If you live in an echo chamber where everyone agrees with you then you think you must be right on everything.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Disagreement with unreasonable people does not change your opinions, it hardens them in the worst way. Also I don't care about the people making unreasonabke arguments

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I think it depends on the situation. I'm not saying to spend time arguing with them. I'm just saying showing them there's another position that reasonable people they know hold is good. Most people are told the only people who hold a different position than them are crazy people.

    I do care about these people, because they vote.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    under and misinformed most Americans are

    Which is weird, because we are all here. It's almost like it's not that hard to find the truth, you just have to be actually invested in finding out what the truth is.

    Is malicious ignorance malicious?

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago

    lemmy.world is very very large and thus has a very very large number of obnoxious shitheads

    Yeah? Yeah, you think so? Obnoxious? Yeah? You sayin' there's obnoxious shitheads round these parts? That what you're sayin'? Just wanna be clear! Well you're wrong! Lemmy.World isn't large at all. The whole fediverse combined isn't very large! Not like my penis! Can't believe you said Lemmy.World is full of obnoxious shitheads! Why would you think that? Can I have $20? Your mom gave me $20! Heyyyoooo!!!!

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  • [–] [S] 11 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Is lemmy.ml is the second largest instance? Or at least rapidly growing? That would explain why it feels this way.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    .ml is the instance run by the developers of the Lemmy fediiverse software, and they themselves are tankies. Do with that information what you will.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    I wouldn't call beehaw pathologically positive. They just seem to bee some very nice people that caught to create a community of nice people. It's not a pathology, it's a common understanding.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Check your communities, and what instances they’re on. Not all are created equal. lemmy.ml tends to be pretty wacko

    "Hey y'all, anyone feeling hostility on Lemmy"

    "Yeah, let me tell you what, fuck those fuckers over there. They fucking suck and I hope they rot."

    Like, how do you not immediately block everyone on lemmy.ca after reading this hate?

    I also find lemmy.ca quite friendly,

    Sure, if you ignore the assholes who pop into other communities to take a colossal shit on them.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Bro they just said "tends to be pretty wacko"

    That's like, really mild. You might need to get some thicker skin.

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (10 children)
  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago

    If you're following them around, that's not living rent free in someone's head, that's just being weird.

    The whole idea of the phrase is the one living rent free is just enjoying their life while the OTHER person obsesses about them.

    If you're the one doing the stalking, it's the stalkee that's living rent free in your head.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    You weren't tagged and still showed up to prove OPs point. It's not rent free when they're being stalked by a fucking weirdo basement dweller.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I'm browsing all and you guys are telling your daily ghost stories. I have blocked all of the meme communities where you repost stuff from reddit, so most of what comes up is this or world news, and I don't need to explain its political bent. You have to realize this comes off as very forced and melodramatic to people on some level. Your being completely unable to take a joke is just icing on the cake.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Daily ghost stories? Me posting memes from reddit? You told a joke? The fuck are you on about, lol?

    If you're suggesting that by saying "rent free" in response to someone outing you for stalking them is a joke, then we have very different definitions of what a joke is. It's akin to a Republican making a dumbass comment and when confronted responding with, "it's just a joke".

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago

    Also, did you seriously not understand that "you" can be plural and nobody thinks you are posting every single meme on multiple different websites? Can you see straight right now?

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You do not have a very strong case for stalking (who, the site itself?) by talking about something you federated with in a public forum. Remember, this is a website the owners willingly hooked up to another. This is like loudly complaining about a business while standing in front of it and acting like one of the customers is stalking you when they say something. It's hard to believe you would say that sincerely. It's more like an un-self-aware attempt at manipulation from a child. The internet moderation-attuned desperation to control conversations is palpable. I pity any coworkers you dare to express yourself to.

    Do you have any other ways that you would like to describe my saying the words "rent free" as an unforgivable provocation? Let's see what you come up with this time.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    You're deranged, man. Also wouldn't he be the one living rent free in your head if you feel the need to check his comments daily? Get a hobby or something.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This is completely delusional. Again, I got here from the All feed. I clicked on this because I was curious what people were framing as "hostility" - clearly you don't think you are being paranoid and hostile rn, which is extremely funny. You guys failed basic reading comprehension and totally freaked out.

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    [–] 71 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    The world has been deteriorating a lot in recently years and inflation is high.

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