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[–] 8 points 1 year ago

This....this hits way to close to home.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I have accidentally opened it so many times. I have to look how to close it every time

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    POV: You open vim for the first time.

    ![Screenshot of vim start screen. The instruction to exit vim is highlighted in red. It reads:

    VIM - Vi IMproved

    version 9.1.697 by Bram Moolenaar et al. Modified by team+vim@tracker.debian.org Vim is open source and freely distributable

    Help poor children in Uganda! type :help iccf for information

    type :q to exit type :help or for on-line help type :help version9 for version info](https://media.infosec.exchange/infosec.exchange/media_attachments/files/114/654/520/326/340/201/original/3df1e7f1fb9b8619.png)

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago*

    The image shows the last state of a terminal emulator of person without command line or git knowledge. The person attempted to run git commit and is now blaming the result of a specific configuration on their system that launches a vi derivative on the vi derivative itself. This image is expected to convince the viewer that the vi derrivative is to blame.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You cannot expect people to read, it's unreasonable.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean, there are blind users.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    Fair, but there's a worse experience possible.

    For a time, many people's first encounter with vi was when it auto-opened a temporary editor to ask them to submit a commit message for the git command they just ran.

    This experience skips the vi "welcome" screen, because a file is open.

    As a bonus challenge, git did not inform the user what editor is in use, and the user had no particular reason to even expect an editor to appear, based on what they were just doing.

    None of this was the fault of vi, really. But it was a terrible introduction.

    It got better when various operating systems changed their default command line editor to nano, and git added some helpful adjustments - "if certain settings are not configured, assume a new user and show verbose welcome messages".

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago
    vim & sleep 30 && killall -TERM vim
    
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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    POV: you opened ed for the first time

    ?
    help
    ?
    ?
    ?
    quit
    ?
    exit
    ?
    bye
    ?
    hello?
    ?
    eat flaming death
    ?
    ^C
    ?
    ^C
    ?
    ^D
    ?
    
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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Are you guys actual programmers? What's wrong with using Vim for development?

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  • [+] -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    You don't grok vi.

    That's fine and you don't need to. But don't knock it if you haven't even taken time to learn it.

    Yesterday I needed to insert a tab character on every line from 2 to 31,000 something. I made the line selection keystrokes in Cursor - it immediately crashed so hard I had to restart my PC.

    Vim did it in a few milliseconds.

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  • [+] -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You always have to learn the processes in a new company, this is just part of that. And if they don't give you the explanations, training and time to learn, that's a good sign you wouldn't want to be at this company.

    Maybe also speak to some of your new colleagues, whether they had similar trouble and see if you can improve the process for the next person.

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  • [+] -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    This thread seems entirely filled with people who seem to not grasp my core point.

    We grasp the core point: vim is not typical. This is not insightful.

    What we care more about is the link to the jobs portal of the company there will be an opening at soon that uses vim as it's standard dev tool chain.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You can learn enough Vim to be productive in it in about 3 minutes.

    You can install some plugins; your experienced coworkers have probably figured that out for you.

    It's ok to be a junior, but you should investigate things from time to time. You may even surprise yourself.

    But you do you.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I'm a vim novice. I basically know just enough to save files or quit, paste with formatting, and "insert" changes. I think I used to know how to find within a file, and I'm sure I could learn again in an instant, but I haven't had to do that in a long time for my noobish tasks. I know it is way more capable than that, but I haven't had to learn more features yet since I use it at a 'nano' level.

    I agree it only takes 3 minutes to learn these things, but personally it took me a bit longer to make them muscle memory.

    I get it if someone were to be annoyed that things they knew how to do in another program they had to re-learn in vim, but this kind of thing it seems like you would just accept that you're going to be frustrated and then put in the work to learn it so you can work more easily with your coworkers or whatever. Like you said, vim has serious advantages, and it seems a little short sighted to not be willing to learn from people that want to train you up in a tool to be more effective.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    What do you mean "build our dev environments around vim"? If you mean they write dev tooling in vimscript and explicitly require everyone to use it, I actually agree with you. I don't believe employers should really ever force any particular editor or IDE if the work is getting done. I would be equally annoyed by a workplace forcing me to use vscode instead of vim. It would slow me down way too much.

    If you are just complaining that they build dev tooling as a CLI, hard disagree. That is absolutely what dev tooling should use because it's actually universal and can be used regardless of your editor choice.

    At my workplace, our dev tooling is done via CLI and our developers use vim, emacs, and vscode. Because it's all CLI, it's easy for individual developers to add their own scripts to automate parts of their workflow as they see fit (and if such automations are deemed useful by the group at large, it will get merged into our shared devtools repo). We even have some editor-specific stuff in there people have written that they find useful, but it's entirely optional.

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  • 59 comments in c/programmer_humor@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 91 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I don't know why there's so much hate for Vim. It's simple- just use it as your default text editor since you first started using computers, and keep using it forever, and problem solved!

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  • [–] 69 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Setup for the overused joke - I've been using vim since I first started using a computer, I just can't quit.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    :set nocompat

    Why VIM decided to make itself run just like VI (by default) is beyond me. Isn’t the long name “VI Improved”?

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    Vims defaults are quite crap overall. It is why everyone needs 100s of lines of configs and many plugins to turn it into something decent. Well worth the setup but it could go a long way to making things nicer to use out the box.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I've recently started administering windows headless. PowerShell over SSH.

    Don't have this problem on windows server!

    It doesn't even have a terminal text editor

    I have to install nano or use powershell commands through hoops of fire just to edit a line in a file.

    Or download the file via scp, edit and reupload.

    Pure Insanity.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Personally, I have seen so many memes about exiting vim that by the time I got to use it for the first time, exiting it was a no-brainer.

    For any newbies out there, the command is

    :wq
    
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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Just to add: possible need to tap esc first, as your random flailing probably put you in insert mode, or something more exotic.

    And only add w if you want to save the file. :q! If you don't

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    😳

    :w = write; or overwrite if the file already exists.

    Please don’t give blanket destructive advice.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This one's fine. They'll then learn the next vim button, u for undo. I believe it's saved between boots of vim? It may be my kickstarted neovim config tho

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    You have heard of :wq, but have you heard of ZZ

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    how about alt+printscreen lift printscreen but keep holding alt, now press b, you succesfully exited vim, works for emacs too!

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    An old Buffalo NAS box made me learn vi. Because that's all it had.

    Yes, this comic speaks to me.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Recently I decided to try ed for real and used it exclusively for a coding project. There is a certain joy in the simplicity, but ultimately I found myself printing lines and searching files more than I liked. And rewriting long lines instead of getting the substitutions wrong again.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Vim is pretty amazing. Almost everywhere now too.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Honestly if there was an award for keybindings for style in terms of the way something like the MLA style guide would describe "good style" in the context of english, Vim would easily win it. It is one of the oldest, most coherent, extendable, fast, joyful and resilient conceptions of how to manipulate text with a keyboard ever created and it is awesome how it is such a compelling idea that it no longer exists as a literal codebase at this point, but rather a style and philosophy of keybindings.

    It is shockingly beautiful even if you find it annoying to use in practice (I get it).

    For example, the Qutebrowser is just awesome, I don't care if you don't like vim you can't argue with the power, ease of use and minimal UI the system requires in exchange for all the control you could want for navigating web pages without needing a mouse.

    The utility of vim keybindings in my opinion extends further into a lot of unexplored accessibility benefits because any vim style input scheme to a program is going to be by definition a nice limited set of inputs someone can custom map to their accessibility hardware or software to have full control over a software and they won't have to worry about needing a mouse at super annoying parts because they know that is against The Core Commandments Of Vim.

    When making a custom or 3rd party controller to a software, there is always the problem of how many control inputs are you going to need, some softwares go nuts with unnecessary keybindings for silly things that becomes a nightmare to try to map a custom hardware/software controller to. Vim keybindings on the other hand well... it is the keyboard proper and that is it, boom done....

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago
    [–] 2 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    ‘vimtutor’ is your friend. Nobody sane uses vim as an IDE, but if you have to ssh to a host to fuck with a config file it’s pretty nice to know because you can guarantee that most distros have at least vi, if not vim.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Nobody sane uses vim as an IDE

    Huh? Many people do this. With the right plugins and config it is just as capable as any IDE.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    If you're just doing a quick config edit, nano is significantly easier to use and is also present in most distros.

    Vi/Vim is useful as a customizable dev environment, but in the present there are better, more feature-rich development tools - unless you are specifically doing a lot of development in a GUI-free system, for some reason.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I mean, if youre continually updating files on remote take the time to learn vim. My God it's a million times more efficient. Even using the keybindings in an ide makes sense.

    That and Im not aware that rhel distros at all have nano built in. Nothing on a random rocky 9 box I randomly sshed into just now.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    What editor is more feature-rich then vim? Out the box it is lacking some sane config but it is one of the more powerful and flexible editors out there - more then a rival for any modern IDE.

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