This....this hits way to close to home.
post
I have accidentally opened it so many times. I have to look how to close it every time
POV: You open vim for the first time.

POV: you opened ed for the first time
?
help
?
?
?
quit
?
exit
?
bye
?
hello?
?
eat flaming death
?
^C
?
^C
?
^D
?
^C
^\
^Z
kill -9 (from another session)
If I can’t kill the child process, I kill its parent and go on with my life.
Sure, but the above is from a gnu humour post that's over 30 years old: https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html
Are you guys actual programmers? What's wrong with using Vim for development?
That's fine and you don't need to. But don't knock it if you haven't even taken time to learn it.
Yesterday I needed to insert a tab character on every line from 2 to 31,000 something. I made the line selection keystrokes in Cursor - it immediately crashed so hard I had to restart my PC.
Vim did it in a few milliseconds.
Oh. I'm going to go practice some of that now. Thanks for the link.
You always have to learn the processes in a new company, this is just part of that. And if they don't give you the explanations, training and time to learn, that's a good sign you wouldn't want to be at this company.
Maybe also speak to some of your new colleagues, whether they had similar trouble and see if you can improve the process for the next person.
This thread seems entirely filled with people who seem to not grasp my core point.
We grasp the core point: vim is not typical. This is not insightful.
What we care more about is the link to the jobs portal of the company there will be an opening at soon that uses vim as it's standard dev tool chain.
You can learn enough Vim to be productive in it in about 3 minutes.
You can install some plugins; your experienced coworkers have probably figured that out for you.
It's ok to be a junior, but you should investigate things from time to time. You may even surprise yourself.
But you do you.
I'm a vim novice. I basically know just enough to save files or quit, paste with formatting, and "insert" changes. I think I used to know how to find within a file, and I'm sure I could learn again in an instant, but I haven't had to do that in a long time for my noobish tasks. I know it is way more capable than that, but I haven't had to learn more features yet since I use it at a 'nano' level.
I agree it only takes 3 minutes to learn these things, but personally it took me a bit longer to make them muscle memory.
I get it if someone were to be annoyed that things they knew how to do in another program they had to re-learn in vim, but this kind of thing it seems like you would just accept that you're going to be frustrated and then put in the work to learn it so you can work more easily with your coworkers or whatever. Like you said, vim has serious advantages, and it seems a little short sighted to not be willing to learn from people that want to train you up in a tool to be more effective.
Vscode definitely can't handle large files like vim can. I can open files that are multiple GBs in vim without issue. Vscode definitely cannot.
What do you mean "build our dev environments around vim"? If you mean they write dev tooling in vimscript and explicitly require everyone to use it, I actually agree with you. I don't believe employers should really ever force any particular editor or IDE if the work is getting done. I would be equally annoyed by a workplace forcing me to use vscode instead of vim. It would slow me down way too much.
If you are just complaining that they build dev tooling as a CLI, hard disagree. That is absolutely what dev tooling should use because it's actually universal and can be used regardless of your editor choice.
At my workplace, our dev tooling is done via CLI and our developers use vim, emacs, and vscode. Because it's all CLI, it's easy for individual developers to add their own scripts to automate parts of their workflow as they see fit (and if such automations are deemed useful by the group at large, it will get merged into our shared devtools repo). We even have some editor-specific stuff in there people have written that they find useful, but it's entirely optional.
I don't know why there's so much hate for Vim. It's simple- just use it as your default text editor since you first started using computers, and keep using it forever, and problem solved!
Setup for the overused joke - I've been using vim since I first started using a computer, I just can't quit.
VIM really does have everything. Even a fully functional internet browser. 🙂
yeah, but emacs still wins out in capabilities. https://xkcd.com/378/
Right now I'm at the hospital in the exam yr colon queue! Maybe it helps U too.
:set nocompat
Why VIM decided to make itself run just like VI (by default) is beyond me. Isn’t the long name “VI Improved”?
I've recently started administering windows headless. PowerShell over SSH.
Don't have this problem on windows server!
It doesn't even have a terminal text editor
I have to install nano or use powershell commands through hoops of fire just to edit a line in a file.
Or download the file via scp, edit and reupload.
Pure Insanity.
Clearly you should install Edit.
Classic DOS editor for text files, batch coding, and QBasic coding. Good times.
Ok that's really cool. It looks like it's really new? Like 3 months old?
My actual issue is I need approval to install anything on any server. This might get approved since it's MS though! Thanks.
I installed vim/nvim on my work windows pc. I don't often need to edit text files in terminal, but its nice having its functionality.
Personally, I have seen so many memes about exiting vim that by the time I got to use it for the first time, exiting it was a no-brainer.
For any newbies out there, the command is
:wq
Just to add: possible need to tap esc first, as your random flailing probably put you in insert mode, or something more exotic.
And only add w if you want to save the file. :q! If you don't
😳
:w = write; or overwrite if the file already exists.
Please don’t give blanket destructive advice.
This one's fine. They'll then learn the next vim button, u for undo. I believe it's saved between boots of vim? It may be my kickstarted neovim config tho
I would say not in all installations, no. And honestly, it’s not worth trusting.
And for those who are unfamiliar, and want to set it up: https://blog.openreplay.com/persistent-undo-vim-save-restore-history/
also worth noting you open vim the first time, you get a huge ass splash screen telling you how to exit
:x is also an alternative to save and quit.
Equally valid for the facial expression you'd make upon finding that out.
There's also ZZ 👉😎👉 Same caveats apply, smash that fukken esc key (for bonus points rebind caps lock as esc) then ZZ Top your way out of that shit.
I'm going to stick with my current process of accidentally opening vim, typing semi-random things that feel like they should work for a minute and then eventually looking up how to quit on my phone.
You have heard of :wq, but have you heard of ZZ
How about :x.
how about alt+printscreen lift printscreen but keep holding alt, now press b, you succesfully exited vim, works for emacs too!
An old Buffalo NAS box made me learn vi. Because that's all it had.
Yes, this comic speaks to me.
Recently I decided to try ed for real and used it exclusively for a coding project. There is a certain joy in the simplicity, but ultimately I found myself printing lines and searching files more than I liked. And rewriting long lines instead of getting the substitutions wrong again.
Vim is pretty amazing. Almost everywhere now too.
Honestly if there was an award for keybindings for style in terms of the way something like the MLA style guide would describe "good style" in the context of english, Vim would easily win it. It is one of the oldest, most coherent, extendable, fast, joyful and resilient conceptions of how to manipulate text with a keyboard ever created and it is awesome how it is such a compelling idea that it no longer exists as a literal codebase at this point, but rather a style and philosophy of keybindings.
It is shockingly beautiful even if you find it annoying to use in practice (I get it).
For example, the Qutebrowser is just awesome, I don't care if you don't like vim you can't argue with the power, ease of use and minimal UI the system requires in exchange for all the control you could want for navigating web pages without needing a mouse.
The utility of vim keybindings in my opinion extends further into a lot of unexplored accessibility benefits because any vim style input scheme to a program is going to be by definition a nice limited set of inputs someone can custom map to their accessibility hardware or software to have full control over a software and they won't have to worry about needing a mouse at super annoying parts because they know that is against The Core Commandments Of Vim.
When making a custom or 3rd party controller to a software, there is always the problem of how many control inputs are you going to need, some softwares go nuts with unnecessary keybindings for silly things that becomes a nightmare to try to map a custom hardware/software controller to. Vim keybindings on the other hand well... it is the keyboard proper and that is it, boom done....
‘vimtutor’ is your friend. Nobody sane uses vim as an IDE, but if you have to ssh to a host to fuck with a config file it’s pretty nice to know because you can guarantee that most distros have at least vi, if not vim.
Nobody sane uses vim as an IDE
Huh? Many people do this. With the right plugins and config it is just as capable as any IDE.
If using vim makes people insane, then what does using ed makes me?
If you're just doing a quick config edit, nano is significantly easier to use and is also present in most distros.
Vi/Vim is useful as a customizable dev environment, but in the present there are better, more feature-rich development tools - unless you are specifically doing a lot of development in a GUI-free system, for some reason.
I mean, if youre continually updating files on remote take the time to learn vim. My God it's a million times more efficient. Even using the keybindings in an ide makes sense.
That and Im not aware that rhel distros at all have nano built in. Nothing on a random rocky 9 box I randomly sshed into just now.
vim is more feature rich than nano, nano is easier to use for the first time, after you learn the very basics vim is pretty much just as easy to use and way more feature rich
What editor is more feature-rich then vim? Out the box it is lacking some sane config but it is one of the more powerful and flexible editors out there - more then a rival for any modern IDE.
Nobody sane uses vim as an IDE
True, same people use unix as their IDE and vim as the editor therein.


all 29 comments