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[–] 134 points 1 year ago* (21 children)

Except when they want to port the game from GameCube to Wii, so rather than modify the game, they just mirror the entire game to make everything gay so the motion controls can be straight.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    I was so ticked when they changed him to be right handed just “because that’s what most people are”

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    I played Twilight Princess on Wii and GameCube, and it was pretty fucking cool to feel like I was swinging the master sword. I probably would have just switched hands if they hadn't. It would have been an adjustment, but I would have gotten there.

    But I can understand not wanting to create a barrier to entry.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Adding a left handed mode was too complex I guess. Minecraft was able to do it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Or just letting everyone use their left hand, it's not like waving around a wiimote requires super fine motor skills

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Iirc there was a lot of fpv aiming for arrows, slingshot, and claw grabbing. I would have been frustrated trying to aim with my left hand, but then I suppose I could have switched for those sequences if needed.

    Even better, maybe they find a way to allow the player to choose which universe they wanted to play in, left or right.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    But I can understand not wanting to create a barrier to entry.

    Unless it's left-handed people. They can get fucked.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    They can get fucked all the way to the settings menu where the option to mirror it back to lefty-mode is hiding

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Wait, is that really a thing?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Unless I'm misremembering, yeah. I no longer have my Wii set up to check

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Wii version was mirror / right hand only, it's the HD version on the Wii U that had the default as left-handed map and the Master Mode using the right-handed mirror map, IINM.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I'm left-handed and played through twilight princess on the wii multiple times before I found out that link was changed to be right handed. It really doesn't effect the gameplay at all to swing the sword with a different hand than the one on-screen - I didn't even notice it was different.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Does this mean you moved link with the movement stick in your right hand? Honestly, that's the crazier part to me.

    Aside of some 8BitDo thing I've never heard of, I think the Wii's controller might be the only one you can do this with.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Oh yeah, him. Totally. Fuck him, and his right hand.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Can we stop giving attention to these people? The vast, vast, vast majority of gamers are not piece of shit bigots. There are probably Ike a few thousand of these bigots in total but they spend their entire life online and report on each other as if they are a majority and make a ton of online noise.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Ignoring them clearly hasn't worked, because too many who actually pull the levers pay attention regardless.

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  • [–] 62 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Talking about things that exist makes me uncomfortable! Stop pushing your ideology on me!

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  • [–] 53 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    gamers: this is a war against right handed people by the sinister lefties

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is supposed to be a role playing game. I'm not left handed how are they expecting me to be immersed in this game? It totally breaks the realism!

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Some people just want the complain like they're on a crusade for justice when they're just bitching cause they can't figure out how to be content with life (mean don't get me wrong things suck but have to find out own peace too and things don't suck cause media is inclusive). Unfortunately they're loud and obnoxious and for some reason we don't know how to mute them as a society.

    Unsure why I ended up replying to you specifically but it's here now.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Is it actually "gamers" saying this?

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I'd say a vocal minority do. A common form this takes is resentment over perceived "shoe-horning" of "politics" into games that "leads to bad games".

    The thibly-veiled bigotry becomes clear when the shortcomings of the game are attributed primarily to the diversity representation, rather than anything else, with the assumption that it would have been better without it. "The writing is bad because they wanted to make a political statement above all else."

    This becomes especially apparent when you consider that those same people would never blame bad writing in a game on making all the characters in a game heterosexual.

    Some people are just straight-up haters, no veil necessary.

    I can sympathize a little with people who had a romantic expectation for a character that they might have fantasized or self-inserted and feel disappointed or even betrayed by having their expectations subverted, especially if they had a strong attachment, as in franchise characters. But they also need to get over the fact that not everything has to be made for them. 95% of whats out there is already made for them.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Ironically, most of the people I hear engaged in gamergate/anti gamergate noise don't actually play games. Maybe they did back in school, but now they'd rather listen to some podcast or like twitter posts for whatever team they chose.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That's funny, in my bubble I've only heard references to gamergate recently from game developers in podcasts. I wouldn't imagine non-gamers know what it is these days.

    Huh, I did a quick search and interestingly, there are a couple mainstream news articles referencing gamergate re: recent anti-DEI in games. Lol I guess games really are part of mainstream culture now.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    The people I know are nerds, but don't play video games. They play ttrpgs or use to play video games and read comics. I brought up how EFAP seems to have a one sided feud with RLM to a friend of mine and he got really defensive of EFAP. This was a little longer ago, but when Battlefield included female models for the player, it caused a bit of a stupid uproar online that the ttrpg friends mocked. I think BF is a bad franchise, so I only commented that they should also include a bear option for the USSR. This was a reference to Woktek, not the more recent meme.

    I got tired of hanging out with both groups who were more interested in complaining about shit then talking about what they do enjoy and stopped reaching out to them.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    It's really complicated, and on per-game basis

    nobody talked much about gay romances in baldur's gate

    but every bigot whined about Dragon Age Veilguard

    tbh, i think lgbtq+ topic is just being used by stu#ios as a scapegoat, so the people would whine about it rather than how shallow the game is with or without "them gays".

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah, people are mad about execs forcing shitty decisions into games, and are being told it's "because woke". When in reality it's just that shitty checkmark-ticking games tend to have superficial progressive elements because some marketing surveys or the podcast the ceo heard last night said that people want a gay character.

    Some (sadly kinda many) then also take that and start complaining about everything they perceive as woke even in otherwise fine games, when it doesn't affect the game quality at all. Like the oblivion remaster renaming gender to body type (or sth similar).

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    thus we may derive that

    lgtv+ is a psyop

    :D

    btw, i fucking hate that oblivion remaster wasn't hated into the pits of hell. One of the most lazy, mediocre, UE asset store and aigen remasters i've ever seen.

    What can i say, corpos played up their marketing game, it's high time users learn to see their bullshit for what it is. Consume conciously, kids

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    execs forcing shitty decisions into games, and are being told it’s “because woke”. When in reality it’s just that shitty checkmark-ticking games tend to have superficial progressive elements because some marketing surveys or the podcast the ceo heard last night said that people want a gay character.

    Is this even true? This always came off as gamergate BS propaganda to me.

    I'm a straight, white, cis male, and I want more gay (and other underrepresented) characters in games. The more variety of experiences available to me to interact with, the better.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    No one except the people involved can say for sure. But general game design of so many AAA games feels like checkbox ticking with no actual vision, and those games are also usually the ones that superficially pretend to be woke. Those games do also often sell pretty decently, because often the dev teams are still competent and can make something fun enough that is also safe enough.

    It's the same as with movies where they just get too big to fail. And then when a movie completely misses the mark, the "anti-woke" will blame it on whatever they think is woke. The vast majority of people I've seen talk about it said that the new ghostbusters sucked, but only the "anti-woke" crowd blamed it on the main cast being women. (I don't watch enough movies, especially the bland safe blockbusters, to have an example i watched, so if this was some kind of right wing reviewbombing tell me - but most of my social media is fairly left biased so I'm assuming it was actually just kinda bad)

    And it's not like they're wrong, most people will either like or not be opposed to some more diversity/some renaming of a menu option. Myself included.

    And to be clear, I'm not saying that this superficial wokeness is making the games worse (or that it's a bad thing - it's a sign that the status quo is shifting a bit, and much like the overton window will help push it further). Just that the bland checkbox ticking games will almost always have these elements because it certainly won't hurt sales. So it's easy for grifters to say that's the reason, and if they like a game that has any (superficial or not) wokeness they will ignore it or make up some reason why it's ok here.

    (Also to clarify since I sometimes refer to "anti-woke" perspective here so it might come off differently: I don't use the term woke as a negative)

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    "Or, we could make it a woman"

    "Um, ok, wait, we need to think about this"

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Gets man bro protagonists in the last 100 games:

    Gets 1 female protagonist: WOKE GIRLBOSS BS!

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I am pan and I have played a few games where a character is revealed as gay and got the same response from me because it just felt forced. The token gay person. Or, in at least one, most of the characters are gay and it's not strictly about gay stuff. They're just there for brownie points and tend to also be incredibly shallow characters who are only defined as "gay." I don't feel that is representative of anything but some empty corporate suit saying "we want your money, fag."

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Zagreus in Hades is obviously Bi (or Pan) the whole time and no one cared, why, because it's not forced, I think it's kinda expected actually, so it just feels right. Same with Lucifer in the Lucifer TV show.

    And sometimes a character is just gay and you find out in notes or something and it's like, neat, and then you move on.

    On the other hand you have a random trans character in Hogwarts Legacy. It's a magical world, you have potions and spells to change not only your gender but you can even be a tiny mouse or a massive dragon, what's the point of that?!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You had me in the first half. She was there, but she didn't force you to listen to her story. She just existed. Like, sure, she was clocky; that's just how it is for girls who transition later in life. She mentions that she's been on a journey, and if you, the player, choose the appropriate dialogue option, she'll tell you her story, which, oddly enough, might be the less realistic thing. There are a lot of trans people who would prefer not to share that, because there are a lot of not-trans people who will change their tune and use information about a person who no longer exists to hurt the person they've transitioned into.

    Zagreus (and Melinoë presumably) on the other hand are not obviously pan until you, the player, start pursuing same-sex relationships. Given that Hades and II are based on Greek mythology, it might come as no surprise, but it's not like there's an aspect of facial or body shape that obviously identifies someone as being lesbian/gay/bi/pan like there tend to be for trans people (especially femmes and women, ESPECIALLY in a world without cosmetic surgery, hand-wavey magic aside). She didn't hurt you, so be happy that some people did feel seen and move on with your life.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I don't like it when fiction makes a minority "special" like only queer people being protagonists who can save the world, because it still singles them out. It doesn't matter if it's something positive. We are all one, nobody is special or less than a person because they were born with this or that characteristic.

    Remember that quote from Rick and Morty? "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's gonna die. Come watch TV."? Add "nobody is special" and we are cooking.

    Then the epic protagonist can save the world even if they aren't really special, and still happen to be queer. Not because they are queer, not despite being queer. They are simply who they are. And they are someone who saves the world.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    gosh, fucking finally people are stopping to get so polarized on the topic.

    I hope, this way of thought would become more popular asap, so the studios would finally realise that they should pay the fucking scenarists and let them just do their job, instead of coming up with stupid requests amid the working process about making character be x, no matter how much it breaks the initial idea, making a piece of media into some kind of caricature, misrepresenting both lgbtq+ and the talent of a given scenarist, making just a mediocre product for the first, while also polarizing bigots even more, cuz obviously, "this game sucks cuz they spent all ihe money on them damn gays".

    Fucking corpos...

    Ah fucking damit, sorry for rambling

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  • [–] 60 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

    Dev: "This man is ripped in the apocalypse"
    Gamers: "Yeah that makes sense, you'd probably be more out and about"

    Dev: "This woman is ripped in the apocalypse"
    Gamers: "what the actual fuck"

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Yeah, that doesn't really track, tons of people fetishize so-called 'muscle mommies', lol.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I was thinking of Abby from The Last Of Us Part 2. But yeah, things have changed slightly since then.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    That's really inviting the real issue with Abby. They designed a story for people to hate her, with the expectation that she'd grow in you and you'd sympathize with her at the end. She literally looks that way through a whole game for the big reveal at the end when you see her.

    It's a post-apocalyptic setting, and she's the only one jacked. It would have taken all of 30 seconds to show an active dairy farm, a weight gym, and other people also jacked. Bulking up muscle if you don't have the resources is not a wise thing to do. Turns out there's a "blink and you'll miss it" gym. Very possible to not see it if you don't rotate the camera to look. Still, a single person walking up looking like her (jacked), to be VERY explicit would have gone a long way.

    If the second game had started at the end of the first game, from the perspective of Abby (basically take the one flashback and make that the start), and then you move forward in time bouncing between Ellie and Abby, giving players time to learn about Abby, that would have changed a lot.

    Instead we are forced to play Abby, who has an unnecessary sex scene with her friends (Mel) boyfriend (Owen), who immediately kills Joel, who appears to be wasting resources on a selfish revenge plot, in a game with a story was written by writers who saw Momento + GoT and thought they could pull off clever writing (they couldn't). And at no point is the player given any agency, especially at its ending.

    Abby sucked, because Naughty Dog set the character up for failure.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It would have taken all of 30 seconds to show an active dairy farm, a weight gym, and other people also jacked. Bulking up muscle if you don’t have the resources is not a wise thing to do.

    I will say I've never played the game, but from looking at a collection of her cutscenes on YT, they literally do?

    The first time they show where she lives, they show an active gym (filled with people using the equipment), a food market with meat, and a farm with cattle.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Holy crap, it is there. Ok, scratch at least that one from the list. They should have emphasized it because I missed it completely and I can't be the only one. I nearly missed it in the video you shared. IMO, it's important to show that there's an active gym culture there, because it means overall the community approves of it and they do have extra. Building muscle requires a surplus of calories. If it's just a single person, they're an asshole. If there's a welcomed gym with active users, or even if it's encouraged it sets a very different tone. She still sucks as a character. But slightly less.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    That response is from loud mouths

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    Some people play games and some people live vicariously thru games. And alot of men in the US have been conditioned to expect to be the victims of violence or social ridicule if they're suspected of being gay. I don't agree with their discomfort but I understand why it happens.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Shoving gay characters down our throats!

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This character is ambidextrous because we just flipped the sprite

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Broke: This character is ambidextrous because we just flipped the sprite

    Woke: Link is right-handed because we flipped the entire game

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    It's breaking my immersion! /s

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah but they were just groomed to lefty sympathies by Shigeru Miyamoto

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    This gamer: chooses a female character so I can stare at her ass the whole time.

    On an unrelated note, I am really enjoying Stellar Blade.

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    [–] 13 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Alright, but I have yet to see a game character that’s left handed though

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Here's a couple random ones, outside of the obvious (Link from The Legend of Zelda).

    Some of the character models in Warcraft 3 were left-handed, like the Footman and the Grunt. The weird implication in this is that in the Warcraft universe, left-handed is the default, because while the common Footmen were lefties, the heroic Paladin was right-handed.

    Some of the party members from early Final Fantasy games were left-handed: Leila and Leon from FF2, and Kain and Palom from FF4. Because of the 2D sprites it didn't show very well during battles, but it did affect the way their equipment was arranged in the menus.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    He holds the pistol with his left but holds the shotgun right-handed:

    He probably holds the weapon with stronger kickback with his dominant hand.

    Conclusion: he's right-handed but trained to hold the pistol with his left

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Or he was trained to hold the shotgun with the right (for example because of which side the spent shells come out of)

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    As a leftie, shooting rifles in the military was not terribly fun because of the ejection port being on the right. Luckily the rifle was well enough designed that I didn't have any casings grazing my cheek.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Oh it's OK. The main character is a woman.

    Genuinely struggling to think of any game where you play a gay man... Like as a forced thing, not an option like Fable 2.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Hmmmm... Wasn't there a Grand Theft Auto DLC with a gay main character?

    Other than that, I can't think of any either.

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  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The one thing that bugs me about cyberpunk 2077 is the main story has an unskippable (straight) sex scene, I know they're almost a meme in gaming culture but I'm not here for that kind of content.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, I have no interest in seeing stuff like that in games, tv shows, or movies. Fade to black quickly while they're kissing, we get it, let's move on. If you want to watch porn then watch porn, I'm trying to game or follow the story.

    Only time it should be shown is if it advances a specific plot point in some way or form but 99% of the time it's not that.

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