proper gander

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[–] 81 points 1 year ago (1 child)

Just saying it in case any one needs to hear it. Even if you practice perfect mindfulness, always cognitive of what you're thinking and the sources of your thoughts, eliminate all extraneous sources of influence from your life, you're still not immune to propaganda. Your behavior can still be modified by what you see and consume.

This isn't for people who are mindful of how they're influenced. This is for people who are autistic, see this meme, and assume it means they're immune. Cause you're not, we're actually an at-risk group overall for manipulation. Just blatant, loud advertising tends to not work the same on us as it does on allistic individuals.

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The newest blatant attempt in grabbing my attention: AI generated "feel good" commercials. I dont give a shot what you are selling, the video makes me HATE that company and product immediately

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    companies even attempting to have a voice in my life piss me off... that's not even starting with ai. I don't care what any company thinks or says, I assume it's a lie and their products are nothing but useless garbage designed to fail in hopes of getting me to Huy some more crap or subscribe to even more useless crap.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Limbic capitalism. The product will make you happy! Do not ask how.

    Often reduced to an intuition pump, because if they don't explicitly state why their bullshit is good, they never have to justify it. Someone clicks Order Now and immediately has an immodest orgasm. It communicates absolutely nothing to your rational mind. So there's nothing to defend. Somehow, naked emotional manipulation is completely unprotected.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You are less vulnerable to usual propaganda. Other forms are super effective to compensate.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    Was about to say: girlfriend's best friend has the type of autism that makes him socialize with anyone and anyone who approaches him, because he believes in the goodness of all people, and thus can't seem to grasp the concept of ulterior motives. He's afraid of upsetting them if he doesn't engage, which caused issues for him and my girlfriend when they were walking alone in LA one night.

    Thankfully nothing came of it, but he just could not understand why my girlfriend did not want to engage with literally every stranger who approached them on the street. The concept of "street smarts" does not exist in his mind. Reading between the lines isn't a thing for him.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No one is immune to propaganda and advertising. Don't believe this just cuz it sounds like a perk to autism.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago*

    I've seen quite a few articles like this recently, such as "advertising doesn't work on software developers" and I am equally annoyed by all of them.

    Advertising works on EVERYONE.

    You are NOT magically immune to it, no matter your profession, or brand of neuro-spicy.

    Advertising isn't just about clicking on links. Advertising is when you see an advert for a car dashcam, let's call the brand "VroomCam" and then promptly forget about it. And then a month later you're on a shopping website looking for a new dashcam and you see a "VroomCam" in the listings and think "Oh yeah I heard of that brand, let's check it out"

    You don't even remember where you heard of them, but you remember you did hear of them, and so the advertising has done its job.

    We all need to be mindful of advertising, and the best way to do that is to defend your eyeballs by making changes to your tech and your life so you don't get exposed to adverts in the first place.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    My Wernerpartner has autism and is incredibly susceptible to whatever shows up on their reels that day. Well, they have improved but 3-4 years ago it was a daily thing.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    This is only true because companies didn't consider autistics a valuable enough demographic to bother with. Now you can see companies like Loops market their overpriced shitty earplugs towards autistics, which actually seem to be popular.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Self-sufficiency isn't possible anymore in this world. We still need to buy things to survive, and that includes us autistic folks. There's no time to research every single product, and oftentimes, there isn't even anything you can research. So how else do you choose? I heard this brand name once before. Was it in a positive or negative context? I don't remember. But I've heard of it. Although now that I think about it, I do tend to like trying brands that I've never heard of when it comes to food.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Self-sufficiency isn't possible anymore in this world.

    It never was. No one was ever a farmer and a dentist and a blacksmith and a doctor and a tailor and a carpenter and a hunter and a weaver and a miller and a cobbler and a baker...

    Trying to be self-sufficient is a great way to end up dying young of a common easily curable infection, or of starvation.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Trying to be self-sufficient is a great way to end up dying young of a common easily curable infection, or of starvation.

    I don't think somebody aiming to be self-sufficient as possible would forego going to the doctor or avoid using medicine unless they were sure that their condition was manageable within their skill level.

    Does this invalidate somebody's efforts to become as self-sufficient as possible? Not at all from my perspective. It's still an admirable practice and lifestyle, especially if they share the fruits of their labor or the knowledge and their skills gained with others - which is a common among those who practice self-sufficiency.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    There’s no time to research every single product, and oftentimes, there isn’t even anything you can research.

    There is time if you make it and there are always avenues to research goods you are looking to purchase - if you are feeling inquisitive.

    The key is to live a minimal life and to build a different relationship with consumption; focusing on patience and discernment i.e. making informed decisions. Instead of essentially declaring that it's impossible, understand that we can all work to improve our lifestyles and habits - even the smallest steps or bits of progress are valid and worthy of recognition.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    The key phrase being "every single product". Of course, I'd do my research where possible, but if I'm out grocery shopping and I need onions, I'm not going to stand there looking up the differences between the different brands or put off buying it so that I can look it up at home. And if I did, what do I even look up? Who shares reviews of onions?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    If people investigated food; they'd find out a large amount of food is grown/processed/produced in unideal/unsustainable ways or under exploitative circumstances - even some ingredients may have been processed by literal child slaves in grocery stores (e.g. cocoa/chocolate).

    Instead of accepting defeat, we can start voting with our wallets if we can afford to do so. This means buying local, supporting small business (such as worker-owned food co-ops), growing your own food if you have the ability to do so, or working with your community to grow food.

    There's a lot that we convince ourselves that we need, but there are generally many options and avenues to make arguably better, more informed choices. Like thrifting, restoring older products to glory, etc.

    Sometimes the trap is walking into stores that 1) produce large amounts of waste 2) exploit their employees and stock items made by exploited people 3) make you dependent on them through anti-competitive practices - which is what most major stores in America do. They are exploiting our comfort, conditioning us to be complacent, and are reducing our options - we must recognize this for our society to shift.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Aren't GACHA games particularly predatory for folks with autism?

    Like, I definitely get the "haha! finally, a one-size-fits-all world coming back to bite you all in the ass!" sentiment. But I seem to recall autistic kids uniquely vulnerable to video screens that promise continuous rapid engagement.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Autistic kids vulnerable - perhaps.

    Uniquely vulnerable to continuous rapid engagement of gacha gaming? God no. It's bad for all kids, adults too - but they get to make their own informed decisions.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    "This article of clothing will be sad and very upset with you if you don't buy it"

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Anecdotal, but my most autistic friends are most definitely not immune to propaganda

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm immune to advertisements simply because they piss me off. Like you wasted my time showing me something I did not care about in the first place. Not only am I not going to buy your product but I am also going to avoid stuff sold by you in the future in the hopes that you will be unable to afford future interruptions

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    That is called reactance.

    In psychology, reactance is an unpleasant motivational reaction to offers, persons, rules, regulations, advice, recommendations, information, and messages that are perceived to threaten or eliminate specific behavioral freedoms. Reactance occurs when an individual feels that an agent is attempting to limit their choice of response or range of alternatives.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Nah, I am more susceptible to other advertising that would work on me and not on NTs.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Well, based off the amount of shit I buy I guess it's safe to say I don't have autism.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Superior look of Autism:

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Unfortunately, I believe we can be even more vulnerable to propaganda, if they make it directed at us, based on research...

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  • 26 comments in c/ausomememes@lemmy.dbzer0.com view that post
    [–] 59 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Silly me thinking it boiled down to "critical thinking skills" and "a severe hatred for being sold to"

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

    Yeah pretty much.

    My whole way of describing this:

    Autistic people process context, body language, microexpressions, tonal inflections... fonts, color schemes, vocabulary and phrasing...

    Autistic people tend to evaluate all elements of communication consciously.

    Whereas NTs tend to evaluate a whole lot of that subconsciously.

    They just flub over details all the time, do a fast but often innacurate heuristic, which they often are not even aware they are doing, which allows them to generally 'socialize' faster, more rapidly, more easily.

    But autistic people tend toward actively processing every detail they can recognize that is presented to them.

    So, it is thus harder for an autistic person to start learning all these various possibly relevant details, and make the correct pattern associations, and do the actual interpretive process... but once they actually do figure out how to do this, they tend to notice a lot more details and patterns, a lot more accurately, than most NTs.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    @sp3ctr4l @A_Union_of_Kobolds Sounds a lot like the top-down vs. bottom-up styles of thinking that often differentiates allistic and autistic people.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    Sort of, at least for myself.

    Granted, I only have Autism and not ADHD, but it seems to me that the top down vs bottom up descriptions I can find are innacurate.

    Autistics love, demand, well defined categories, and once they are established to a logically coherent and resilient degree, they can be used as new set of tools to either start from, aim toward, or attempt to associate with other categories or specifics.

    Most of the language I can find on this... tends to describe autistic 'bottom up' thinkers as basically not being able to use or construct categories, which frankly I find quite insulting, I am better with logically consistent categories than any allistic person I've ever met in the real, full stop.

    Find me an allistic set theory mathematician, prove me wrong lol.

    And also, this top down bottom up language or framework I am finding also misses the crucial distinction that I am making, that for an autist, thoughts are active, conscious, an autistic is rattling off their entire thought process in real time when rambling, can trace every step of it if someone is willing to listen to all of that.

    Allistics largely don't, and largely can't, not without teaching themselves how to introspect and do metacognition... whereas those things are basically the default for autistics.

    The sort of 'thought paralysis' that an Autistic person can experience... I would say that in fact largely comes down to the realization of a fundamental category break, that is so significant that it basically demands a total refactoring of the Autistic's consciously constructed systemic approach to analyzing/understanding ... potentially, their entire existence.

    A person who doesn't care about or use categories would just brush this off, for an Autistic, it is potentially an existential crisis.

    I also find it funny that a psychologist could literally just ask an Autistic person like myself how this works, what the actual train of thought is, how it works... and, unless they are also autistic, they never do, they just do their best at theorizing, and so far, well they are slowly getting there, sort of.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    @sp3ctr4l Hmm, I don't know if bottom up precludes the use of categories. When I use them, I still try to collect more data to add towards supporting or going against the category. I only rely on them when expediency is required. Whereas allists prefer to rely on them. But I am ADHD as well, to add another data point. I get what you are saying about the conscious vs. subconscious difference. I just noticed that the pattern was similar to the top-down/bottom up thing so was wondering if there is a connection. Clearly I need more data. :blob_cat_thinking: 😛

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (6 children)

    I mean, maybe I have only read about 'top down' vs 'bottom up' thinking descriptions from... ... ... bad psychologists?

    Who knows!

    But yes, you seem to agree with me that Autists are... really all about constructing actually valid categories and very often checking them for potential inconsistencies, whereas allists tend to just be fine with fuzzy logic for that.

    Yes uh, please add me / my thoughts to your data pile, as another autist, I would be honored, as I in return add you and your thoughts to my own data pile =P

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No official diagnosis because that costs money in America, but almost certainly some variety of the AuDHD combo. So this is based largely on my own experience.

    I think the main factor is subtext. Allistic people tend to know, or assume they know, the subtext intended in social interactions, including the consumption of media; frankly they just don't think about it that much. Autistic people have to analyze scenarios to try to logically deduce the intended subtext.

    That means when autistic people consume media, they don't really have an assumption of subtext, or at least not a neutral one. As they analyze the scenario to try to deduce it, the obvious motivations reveal themselves. Obviously this ad is trying to convince me to purchase this good or service, obviously this highly biased ”news" is trying to push a narrative unsupported by the raw facts.

    It's more difficult to propagandize people who scrutinize the propaganda. There is no subconscious assumption of neutrality, we know everyone is trying to push some agenda, subconsciously or otherwise, and in the process of masking we learn to try to figure out what that agenda is.

    The same training we use to not seem like robots and make friends, also trains the ability to detect other unspoken intentions. We analyzin' err'ything out here.

    It also probably doesn't hurt that a lot of the common mustering points in propaganda revolve around fitting in and conforming to (allegedly) implicit normal social norms. That seems to be an unusually poor motivator among those on, and especially to one end of, the 'spectrum'.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Well said, I agree with all that as well, and would also add that Autistic people are... generally more poorly motivated by appeals to conformity... because if an Autistic person has knowledge of how social / cultural standards factually differ throughout time and space and different communities... they just know that to a large degree, all social norms are arbitrary, and vary greatly.

    Thats not to say that they do not have understanable basis in a specific area or group's culture... but it just is the case that 'conformity' means different things to different people, that there literally is no universal and objective way to 'be normal'.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Unfortunately that only renders for me as the text code, do I need to pay for some kind of dlc to see your custom emoji?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    @sp3ctr4l I'm not sure how it works. Could be it'll come with time, or you need to click on the server, or follow someone on that server, or vice versa. 🤷 It was just a happy face, except a "blob cat" style. pngitem.com/pimgs/m/588-588032

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    The tradeoff for me is that i get unreasonably upset when ads are plastered in my face.

    There are minor parts of my commute that I learned to walk with my eyes closed just to not have to see them, other parts where i only look in the “tranquil” direction.

    I will stop watching or leave the site if i cannot block or instantly skip on less then 1 second. Whatever content beyond it isn’t worth the psycho-assault.

    The internet has become incredibly small for me over the years and its deeply saddening.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is also how I feel about advertising, especially any that have an audio component. Firefox and uBlock Origin are a lifesaver.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I don't have a great memory in general, but I spend a great deal of mental effort on remembering which gas stations around me have autoplaying ads with sound. Dunno why that's my line in the sand but I cannot tolerate just standing there having car insurance blasted into my ears.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    https://research.manchester.ac.uk/en/projects/susceptibility-to-radicalisation-in-those-with-autism-spectrum-di

    You may, in fact, be more vulnerable to propaganda and radicalization, including memes telling you you are immune to propaganda.

    https://thedebrief.org/debunking-myths-autism-doesnt-increase-or-protect-against-conspiracy-beliefs-new-research-shows/

    But you're neutral on conspiracy thinking, so that's nice.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I recognize all advertisements as the propaganda they are. Not to say it doesn't work on me. It works on everyone.

    But when I make the decision to buy something I look for product reviews by consumers who have actually purchased the product. Not those obvious fake reviews pinned to the top. I'm not enticed by a market tested jingle or enraptured by bright colors.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'll believe this when I can no longer remember the Mr Clean jingle.

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  • [+] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    @Geodad @db0 Yeah, I didn't like the implication of "immune". I would have preferred something like "...likely more able to recognize and be resistant to than most (or average) people...". Can't say I'm crazy about the picture either.

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