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[–] 210 points 1 year ago (4 children)

A person sent to a country they didn't come from isn't "deportation". It's trafficking.

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  • [–] 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    But our courts now are so fucked that the lawyers will argue while it is cruel, it is not unusual because we are doing it all the time so therefore both of the terms of cruel and unusual aren't met and the court has no business stepping in the way of our legitimate executive Authority.

    Disallowing courts from Nationwide injunctions was a huge decision that is not recognized as such yet, that shows you where the Supreme Court is going to allow this to go, straight into the abyss. They think the Republic is already dead and all but name.

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    [–] 74 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I guarantee the conditions at these African camps will be inhumane and murderous. They’re located in places already rife with conflict and cruelty. Places like Sudan, etc. It’s the point, to offshore human rights violations. Sounds familiar

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I don't think they are. I think a LOT of these people are being sold off into slavery or re-deported to their home countries (Trump is notoriously using Ghana as a middleman to deport people, especially Africans, to their home countries in violation of protection orders), where they're being jailed, killed, or tortured (which is literally what those protection orders are trying to forestall).

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    or re-deported to their home countries

    Do you have any evidence that this is happening?

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  • [–] 62 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    The military flights cost up to $28k an hour, but it's OK, he's putting this all on your national debt, his giant credit card.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    he increased the defense budget to nearly 1trillion.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Here is the thing I don't understand, Fuck Trump but also as a leftist I think it is a great step of honesty to rename the Department of Defense to the Department of War. I mean, yes Trump is doing it because he WANTS to embrace the military industrial complex even more but that doesn't change the fact that the name change fits the department a lot better than the old name shrugs.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Oh yeah, it's less hypocritical.

    But perhaps we'd rather it was named and acted like DoD, instead of being named DoD and acting like DoW.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    I agree I guess I just feel like naming something a better name mostly just gives liberals and centrists the license to stop paying attention and assume things are great, so yes you are right but I genuinely think the stupidness of this move is ironically productive towards getting the average person in the US to think skeptically to some degree about the military industrial complex's motivations and how they relate to our wellbeing...

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  • [–] 61 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    This is murder with extra steps. The genocide has already started. I genuinely thought we had more time before it started...

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    We did. We had four years to throw this man in prison.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    We go four years of lessons about how the rich and connected live by a totally different set of rules and laws from those of us that are not rich or connected.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    We need to start talking about how we're going to hold these people accountable once this is all over. And we need to think of methods that bypass SCOTUS all together.

    I propose that we rendition ICE agents to the countries of their victims to face trial in foreign courts. Are you an ICE agent that sent a bunch of innocent Venezuelans off to die in a prison camp in Ghana? We're shipping your ass to Venezuela to face trial for your crimes against Venezuelan citizens. Just bypass the US judicial system all together, same as Trump is doing. That way some future Republican president can't just pardon these bastards, and we don't have to worry about a criminally corrupt SCOTUS refusing to hold murderers accountable for their crimes.

    That's the thing about crimes against immigrants. In theory you can be prosecuted in either their current country or their home country. If you harm an immigrant in the US, even if the US justice system is incapable of holding you accountable, you could simply be extradited to the home nation of your victim.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    I think it should be simple for ICE members: get the accounting books, see who is paid. Then execute them.

    It isn't kind, but clearly the mercy of Reconstruction and the Nuremberg trials (About 210 Nazis executed) allowed the bastards to be rooted in the culture of their nations. They must be treated like weeds, else they will come back.

    The biggest worry here, is the books being falsified when the Hitlerites have clearly lost the war. They would likely add the names of their enemies to their books at the last minute. Hopefully, the Furry Hackers of the Allies would consistently obtain payment records, so that we can know when fake entries have been added.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    They have to have due process but I agree that the punishments have been way too soft. The confederacy, the Jim Crow connected officials and the lynch mobs should have been dealt with after a trial with a jury made up of a jury of the community that they were targeting.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I figure that payment records is the closest we can get to due process. ICE wears masks to avoid retribution, and many of their victims will be killed to ensure their silence. Maybe someone smarter than me can figure out a better way to track ICE membership, but I can't think of it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Yeah but the point of due process (especially since you specifically mentioned executions), is to make sure beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the person did the thing they're accused of.

    Otherwise, you make mistakes and you kill innocent people. Due process includes gathering the evidence you mentioned, but then also making sure that it's real and valid and not just someone who didn't like their neighbor so reported them or what have you

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    That is why ICE is problematic, because they deliberately try to avoid being identified. At some point, we have to choose: do we allow many members of ICE live because of their duplicity, or do we remove them from society, despite not having much information?

    It isn't a great situation. That is why collecting records is important, so that we can obtain a reasonable justice. After having an answer of "Did they serve ICE?" of yes or no, it becomes possible to indict ICE as a class of war criminal. ICE certainly wouldn't even bother to check for citizenship before sending children abroad without parents, court orders, nor consent, so it is reasonable to have a relatively low standard for whether ICE staff should die. They are effectively genocidal traffickers by choice, and at some point, the restraint of mercy becomes foolishness.

    The evil of ICE is corrosive like that, it affects everyone in their vicinity. Unfortunately, an end to a civil war where ICE is allowed to live, just means that they get to continue corroding our humanity decades after, as would their families in the centuries to come. It is better to commit the evil of execution against ICE, in order to prevent their evil by choice from growing strong in the garden of our society.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    I agree. I just think we need to be careful about calling for foregoing due process.

    Due process is also important in order to make sure that the person's punishment sticks (not execution as that one obviously sticks). Because you might not care about the rule of law, but the next guy might. Or the judge ruling over the person's appeal might.

    You might not allow them to appeal, but whoever comes next might, and if you didn't do shit right, they can have all of the charges thrown out. And possibly, rightfully so.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Maybe, just maybe, you should consider withdrawing the ‘The Hague invasion act’, join the ICC treaty and send all those thugs (beginning with the Fuhrer himself, if he is still alive) to The Hague.

    Worked well with Milosevic. It’s working well with Duterte. Would work with the Orange Fuhrer and his goons.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    We need to start talking about how we're going to hold these people accountable once this is all over. And we need to think of methods that bypass SCOTUS all together.

    Cowardice. You need to talk about how to stop it, but that's too uncomfortable and cuts into your daily routine. Why the fuck are you only interested in doing something after you can't save their lives anymore?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Everyone for the past 8 years have been saying "The shit is right around the fucking corner! Please, get ready for it, so we can fight back when it does arrive!"

    Jan 6th was the Beer Hall Putsch. And those telling everyone this, and explaining the historical context and lessons were met with derisive remarks. We also warned the Dems that pushing Biden, and then Harris, into the running for POTUS was a dangerous move, and prone to failing. Then, we were accused of "helping Trump".

    Like, the knowledge of how close we were was widely available. It was ignored. Why do you think "Defund the police" was considered a "middle ground" for those on the left? Notice who is doing the gestapo work? Cops.

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  • [–] 89 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Slaves.

    Don't kid yourself these people are being sold as slaves. That's why they're being sent to these countries. We are selling slaves.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Qatari royalty gave Kushner 2 billion to manage. He's on their payroll. This is part of what they're getting.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think it was the Saudis that gave Kush 2 bil.... Unless Qatar did it too

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Nah. Why would Ghana want slaves from the US?

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  • [–] 61 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    So when did music magazine rolling stone become one of the more reliable sources of non music news in this country? I'm seriously asking cause it's really strange to me. Good, but strange

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    A little bit before Teen Vogue became a hard hitting investigative and political media outlet.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    ... I genuinely can't tell if you're fucking with me

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No! Teen Vogue is actually awesome reporting!

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  • [–] 134 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [+] -38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    Wow so brave. Buy a rifle and learn how to use it, memes aren't revolution.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Why aren’t we shooting these Lemmy posts?!?!

    lol, like people can’t arm themselves whilst also taking 5 minutes to post.

    Are you eating? No! Shoot!
    Are you pooping? No! Shoot!
    Are you breathing? No! Shoot!

    Don’t reply to me, you should shoot!

    Stop doing what Lemmy is for, shoot your phone!!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    They are literally posting a meme about asking the pedophile in chief to release the evidence in themselves. They are posting a meme about ineffective passive bullshit.

    That's why I said what I said. I didn't say you have to be shooting all the time, that's a very silly interpretation.

    I'm on Lemmy, obviously, making a comment with a message: America needs a revolution, and a revolution can't be won without guns when he releases the military on you.

    Had their message been something effective, I wouldn't have said anything, but posting "release the files" memes on every post is not only ineffective, it's also distracting from every awful thing he's doing that's more worthy of a revolution than simply being a known pedophile. He's running the Nazi playbook page by page, you no longer have the freedom of speech, people are being sent to international concentration camps without trial, and you're making memes to distract from what needs to happen: you need to revolt!

    An armed minority is harder to oppress, and those willing to stand up are a minority. You don't need to shoot everything, I didn't imply that and I'm not a violent gun nut, but you should at least know how to operate a rifle effectively and get some ammo while you can.

    Trans people are being targeted next, are you gonna protect them with "release the files" memes when the stories of what Trump is doing to them start coming out?

    That's very brave.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The US has now gone full circle.

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  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Nothing to do with one another despite very loud declarations to the contrary.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    notice how they're sending these planes to countries that barely have an airforce to chase them the fuck away with.

    they're sending them to places where the local governments wouldnt dare protest.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    At least this indicates the missing people from Alligator Alcatraz are alive. And isn't that a sentence I would very much like to never, ever say again.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    You know, the Nazis did the same with wasting valuable military resources transporting considered undesirables to be imprisoned and killed, even though they were in the middle of a war, and the logistics were badly needed to transport supply and reinforcements to the front lines. I always say fascists will always fall because they are running on emotions. So much for "facts don't care about feelings" from MAGAts.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    This isn't really true. Generally, the Nazis were running trains eastward with supplies for their troops in Russia. The trains filled with victims for the camps would have otherwise returned empty. The same logistical situation is why so many POWs captured by the Allies in Europe and North Africa were brought back to the United States for incarceration.

    As far as the expense of the Holocaust was concerned, the death camp Treblinka is pretty instructive. Treblinka operated for a period of 18 months, during which approximately 900,000 people were killed by the exhaust from a single salvaged tank engine. The camp was staffed at any one time by about 25 German officers and soldiers and 100 local civilian workers. Treblinka was an utterly trivial fraction of Germany's overall war effort, and yet it killed a million people.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The difference though is that the Allies could spare more resources, while the Axis can't. German rail lines also keep getting sabotaged and the blockade and air bombing kept the resources to fix them being disrupted or destroyed. The Allies didn't have such issues on their end. The German trains coming from the Eastern front could have loaded up more wounded but even so, I imagine they would have more limited available train freight because of destruction.

    The anti-partisan action by the Axis also took up so much manpower that could have otherwise gone to the frontline. Not to mention that the very same people the Germans killed, could have been soldiers themselves on the side of the Axis. Many Ukrainians welcomed the Nazis as liberators and could have helped the Nazis against the Soviet Union, but of course, the Nazis had a different idea. Mussolini's fascism was mild compared to the Nazis, and he was right that the Hitler's obsession on race is a waste of time and resources.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Once America got involved it was over for Germany. There is no scenario where Germany could have won with the US involved. Just fighting France and England and Russia they absolutely would have won. Could have anyway. How many people did the Russians sacrifice to get rid of the Germans, 17 million? Guys behind the lines to shoot anybody that Retreats from their position for any reason.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Guys behind the lines to shoot anybody that Retreats from their position for any reason.

    That's not what the purpose of blocking brigades was. Casualty rates were roughly similar between Germany and the USSR, if you don't include civilians.

    There's a lot of fictions made up by nazis about the eastern front that western historians took seriously until the Soviet archives from the time were made public, that we still see in Hollywood and pop culture, like machine-gunning their own troops, sending soldiers without weapons, and human-wave "tactics".

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    The same logistical situation is why so many POWs captured by the Allies in Europe and North Africa were brought back to the United States

    Well, that and the fact that it completely takes them out of the theater of war. They're not going to be rescued and released from a camp in the middle of Montana.

    And even if a few do escape, they're a few days walk from anywhere, and will stick out like a sore thumb if they did encounter a local.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Now that MAGAts have set the precedent. I look forward to dumping MAGAts there when It is our turn to govern.

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  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    Jesus f-ing Christ, it's like inverse-slavery and America having decided to be the slave sellers this time around. Literally negotiating to work people from previously active workforces to countries they have no ties and a paper agreement of their guilt that allows them to be manhandled like slaves on the industrial scale.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    Commenting for visibilty. Nothing to say about this, it speaks for itself

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Worthless opposition to challenge it too. And judges prevented from issuing Nationwide injunctions from systematic betrayals of Law and Constitution.

    Leaving everyone defacto vulnerable, Constitution or no, because they can be prevented from filing a case, or it being heard.

    People voted for deportations of illegals, not to send illegal immigrants to foreign prisons for life without charge. But we have no lawmakers that will make an effective public case against this

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Lawmakers are representatives of the people. The people are where the power lies, and where the will to change things has to come from. The American people need to stop waiting for someone else to stop this.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    People voted for deportations of illegals, not to send illegal immigrants to foreign prisons for life without charge. But we have no lawmakers that will make an effective public case against this

    Lets not fool ourselves. This is exactly what they wanted and voted for.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    At some point, other countries will stop taking these extrajudicial deportations, and guess what happens then?

    (*Spoiler: Hitler did this until other countries started refusing all the deportations. Only then did he start gassing people. This is stage 1.)

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    At some point, other countries will stop taking these extrajudicial deportations

    Yeah, no. They are being paid to accept these people and they intend to do absolutely nothing with them. just dump them out there and say "good luck".

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    I think that when the American dollar becomes useless, these countries will be accepting the trafficked as slaves. ...If they aren't already. No decent person would send over 500 children to be disappeared.

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