Archive article: https://archive.is/ThCGt

The documentary in the article: https://youtu.be/RP8Oxe6OxJc

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[–] 80 points 1 year ago (6 children)

It's the Bernie-Trump pipeline working in reverse. Because offering real solutions to people's problems works. Who woulda fucking thunk.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    There wasn't really a Bernie-Trump pipeline in the first place. There were articles about how more Bernie primary supporters backed Clinton than Clinton primary supporters backed Obama. Additionally, many people interested in Bernie were GOP to Bernie to begin with.

    Bernie to Clinton info below is likely higher since it's 2 months before the comparable Obama numbers. I can't find the article I'm thinking of with a direct comparison but it had the same findings after the general iirc.

    Bernie to Clinton 85% https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/12/sanders-supporters-clinton-vote-survey

    Clinton to Obama 81% https://news.gallup.com/poll/109957/obama-gains-among-former-clinton-supporters.aspx

    Similar info about the Bernie/clinton divide: https://acbc89.medium.com/more-sanders-voters-backed-clinton-than-her-own-supporters-backed-obama-c5dc37658fe5

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    There wasn't really a Bernie-Trump pipeline in the first place.

    There was. Now this isn't a massive election-deciding group, but it's an interesting phenomenon that tells us a lot about the audience for progressive politics.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Direct quote from your link: "By every estimate, Obama-Trump—voters who had previously voted for Barack Obama but voted for Trump in 2016—vastly outnumber Sanders-to-Trump voters, accounting for about 14% of Trump's total vote."

    The X-Trump pipeline rhetoric is never brought up outside of sanders and does not take into account sanders took supporters from the GOP to begin with. It's not shocking some people take inconsistent political action. What is shocking is that people are accepting the idea of there being a "pipeline". It's like when they write whole articles on 5 tweets and people eat it up. This is not a real concern and per your link Obama voters are more susceptible. It's not a relevant point except that exciting candidates get a certain amount of people excited regardless of what side they are on.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Sure, you're not contradicting me.

    It's not a relevant point except that exciting candidates get a certain amount of people excited regardless of what side they are on.

    No, it's relevant because it means that progressive politics can mobilize current or future GOP supporters rather than just progressives.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    When people feel lied to is when they’re most willing to change their stances as well. GOP supporters are feeling the economic promises falling short right now and will continue to feel those promises not being kept. I feel that now is the perfect time to be making inroads with GOP supporters.

    Bernie lays it out front and center for people to see who is causing their issues and people are listening.

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  • I really don't think it's progressive politics is my point. This cohort does not seem to care about politics judging by their inability to see how Bernie and Trump are opposed politically. Bernie also told people to vote for Clinton which these people didn't, so obviously they're not following him for his policies or because they listen to his advice. They care about optics and whatever their skewed sense of good optics suggests is what they follow. They like "outsiders" or some other superficial thing. Progressives often fit the bill, but I don't think it's a good idea to dilute ourselves into thinking that it's the content rather than the individual candidate that is having this effect.

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  • [–] 58 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    We almost had Bernie in 2016. What would the world look like if that happened?.

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  • [–] 65 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    I'm a firm believer that the person who most changed the modern world, or at least this country, completely by accident, is Elián González. Remember him? That whole thing turned off a ton of Democratic voters in Florida. Right before the 2000 election... You know, the hanging chads one that took forever to settle?

    Imagine Al Gore winning in 2000. Imagine 9/11 and the aftermath (including the Iraq war) happening under his leadership... Or not. Maybe Gore would have taken action ahead of intelligence warning that planes would be used as missiles and prevented the whole thing.

    It does make me wonder if that momentum would have continued into 2008 or if the pendulum would have swung to a Republican, but I would be so damn curious to see what things would have been like if his mother made it to Florida with him.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That made a difference, but I also think It also had to do with the literal paid Brooks brothers riot organized for republicans and the Bush legal team which had 3 members who are now supreme court justices. Who cares if the people voted for gore, our supreme court says their vote is more important.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    And Florida's Secretary of State doing everything she could to stop counts and hand the election to Bush. And the Supreme Court that collaborated with her to do so.

    2000 was actually, incontrovertibly stolen.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Al Gore DID WIN! It was proven after the fact, when the Supreme Court gave it to Bush. First time Republicans cheated and won

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You can shove that CNN article up your ass. I was there after the fact. Was 20 years old first presidential election. Gore won it was proven in court. CNN are fucking nazi supporters.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago

    You can shove that CNN article up your ass

    Coming in strong there

    I was there after the fact.

    There as in boots on the ground on the campaign/legal team/whatever or there as in old enough to pay attention to the news?

    Was 20 years old first presidential election.

    Ah, I'll assume the latter to my question above. How is that any better than someone who says they were 30 and believe the opposite? I'm just not sure why your age should matter here

    Gore won it was proven in court

    Which court? Was that ruling overturned on appeal?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    I would go out on a limb and say that due to continuity of Government, Gore’s administration would have likely been able to successfully prevent 9/11 from happening.

    Though I think he would still likely end up a one-term President for whatever reason (akin to Bush Sr.) and we’d likely have gotten John McCain as president for a term before the GFC.

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  • I made a similar claim recently. I guess we could go back as the beginning of time, imperialism, the framing of the constitution, manifest destiny, reconstruction, Nixon, Regan, etc. But Gore just felt so recent. So close. Like such an inflection point. Think of what the Supreme Court could look like. It really is just these small changes that turn the tides of history. I know tensions were high, but I think of Franz Ferdinand and how maybe things would've played out just the same if he was not assassinated, but there's this huge unexplored possibility space where things were different. Makes me sad to think people make these decisions and will never see or understand the true consequences of them. I wonder if they saw the destruction of WW1, the holocaust, WW2, the nuclear bombs, the destruction in Gaza and war in Ukraine, if they would maybe make some different choices. I know the 2000 Supreme Court wouldn't, but it's nice to think maybe someone would.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Tbh, not much fudamental changes. Bernie would not have 50 progressive senators and 218 progressive representatives. Best he could do was a bunch of executive orders that will definitely get struck down by the courts, they would never let him nominate anyone that's not democratic party-approved.

    I mean unless he uses the momentum to win 50 progressive senators and 218 progressive representatives in the midterms, which is unlikely given historical trends during midterms.

    But hey, at least we'd have a functional court without the 3 maga appointees (well... sort of)

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago

    As they should have been, all along.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago
    [–] 90 points 1 year ago
    [–] 29 points 1 year ago

    I'll believe it when I see it. The left is constantly huffing copium about how actually secretly everyone in the country is a good friendly person and there's really only like fourteen racists left now that everyone has seen the error of their ways. Never seems to be true

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    Fun fact, a lot of republicans would have voted for Bernie in 2016, and the world would never know what a Trump presidency looks like. If only the DNC wasnt corrupt as fuck.

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  • Too fucking little, too fucking late.

    Unless these assholes are ride or die Bernie fans til death, I’d prefer they just drop dead. Can’t just hold out hope they won’t start sucking the next dictators cock once (IF) we can right this countries course after we execute Temu Hitler and all his collaborators.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Does anyone feel like using "bros" is divisive? Maybe I'm old but "bros" makes me think of frat boys, not a great association. Seems like sabotage.

    I love Bernie, but he needs to endorse more people for the next generation. He's not getting younger!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    Seems like sabotage.

    It is, that's the whole point of the term "Bernie bro." The Daily Beast is a rightwing rag too so it's par for the course.

    Edit: I'm wrong on the rightwing rag thing.

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  • [–] 48 points 1 year ago (36 children)

    It don't matter no more, boy.

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  • [+] 72 points 1 year ago (34 children)
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (21 children)

    Our history is them voting one way and people like Mitch McConnell bring us right here while they reelect them.

    History shows they are a bunch of mornic idiots and if they happen to do the right thing that’d be a nice surprise but history doesn’t paint them in a good light no matter what you their grandfathers did while raising father that did the opposite…

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    And you want to kick them when they're finally joining your side? How fucking stupid are you?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    I'll be cantankerous... yes.

    I live in a red state. My jobs are me the rare left in the entire crowd. I have to learn how to talk, chat, joke with these people. And last Trump administration I kept talking with them. Things I learned. Since I wasn't willing to immediately extol the good of Trump, I must be against him (not even talking politics, just me keeping my mouth shut.) That they're against many of the things on helping people.

    But hell, years of working with one crew, I was getting them over, realizing that the wealthy were fucking us over, that the insurance that was fucking everyone over was why we needed better. That many of the "sullied" republicans were against it. Hell I think one thing that got them listening was they said something good about Biden, I couldn't keep my mouth shut and made a snark about Trump and when I was told "I said something good about your guy" I outright tore into them to never say that Biden was "my guy", I may look at lesser of evils but it wasn't some fucking football game.

    But I saw chances... I saw hope that maybe... maybe they could learn. But the second Trump started running again, it was the same parroted stuff, even from a soybean ventures guy who was watching to see if his prices would ever go back up because he was losing money on it.

    So no... I don't trust them. I think there are some who need to be out there to welcome the people when they're willing to join sides, yes... but there also needs to be those to remind that these are not friends, and they are very likely to stab us in the back unless they actually show that they're willing to put the work in to make change.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (17 children)

    Who’s kicking them? It’s an internet comment stating how shitty they have been and how little trust they deserve.

    Let someone else suck their dick cause they may pay Bernie lip service… vs decades of voting data and the harm their very political participation has caused? You’d have to be stupid to start fawning over them now. Let them prove it then I’ll say cool. They’ve actively proved otherwise throughout my lifetime so this article ain’t moving the needle.

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  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children)
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Just treat them decently and they will abandon Trump…

    Oh yea I’m sure they will, just like after Bush crashed the economy… just like after Trump’s first term… just like when my magic fairy?

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    Totally true, they have shown a historical trend AWAY from awareness… so why should I trust them to be aware now? Even the most basic coal worker has not understood these issues for DECADES FOR FUCKS SAKE. All while voting in republicans to take it worse.

    If they want to be different they needed to vote differently BEFORE now. Until then why not assume they will vote the same?

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    Yea I personally made them vote red. Thats the issue here… have you read what I said? There are decades of behavior contradicting you…

    On top of that are you saying a simple dismissal is what makes folks act that way…? Clearly I guess you think it’s not their fault… it’s my dismissal… the snowflakes… no accountability there…

    Simply delete my account and we can have a utopia… Bravo with a fucking mindset thinner than paper…

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Totally, believing you is.

    I’m glad you understand that. There’s nothing I’m saying otherwise but you’ve landed yourself into a corner where you have to be a defeatist to even entertain the bullshit you’ve flooded this place with in the mean time.

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Truth be told a lot of people (call it a society?) can figure stuff out that helps a society (call it everyone ?) and do good! Or we can cast doubt and wreck hell and say that anyone calling that a bad thing must “have it all figured out on their own…”

    You’re right it’s on my own and totally has nothing to do with the crazy shit you have just been messaging…

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Where were your kin at the Battle of Blair Mountain? Why’d you let California vote for Reagan? See how unhelpful these criticisms are.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    I’m not criticizing the battle of whatever I’m criticizing every vote after the fact.

    Why Cali elected Reagan is nothing when you look at California SINCE THEN.

    Tell me about Appalachia or Kentucky since then…

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  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    If you know history, then you would know we're past the point of no return.

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  • Thebes liberated the Greek city states from their Spartan conquerers.

    Thebes was in turn conquered by Phillip II of Macedonia, after he was taught by the general that led Thebes to that victory.

    Thebes was destroyed by Alexander, Phillip's son, after they rebelled against his rule.

    When offered the choice to surrender and spare their city, they refused and fought to the death for their liberty.

    Does the empire of Alexander still stand? Did democracy die forever with Phillip's conquests?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Nothing lasts forever. And fascism has rarely lasted long historically.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Unfortunately, while voting is bloodless, ousting fascism, after idiots vote it in, takes many lives.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    We’ll see. It’s been ousted bloodlessly before but it’s not easy.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Are there no young people in the US? Must we keep chasing after geriatric old men?

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  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Doesn’t matter. There’s 1 Bernie and he’s 84.

    No one else like him exists in American politics.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Way to tell the class you've never listened to him speak....

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  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    You thinking of some obscure politician with no media flow out there just like him? Whoever you’re thinking of would need to get more than .5% of a vote.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Dude, he's filling stadiums with his anti-oligarchy tour. What rock have you been living under?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I think the point he's trying to make is that there's a certain combination of beliefs and personality that make Bernie so enticing to people, and his "successor" isn't clear. Which... I half-agree with. AOC is a great contender for filling his shoes, if those coal country people aren't too racist/sexist.

    Trump is similar on the other side. Decades of name recognition. He has a charisma that attracts people who could fall for a cult. His nonsense way of speaking lets people fill in the blanks in a way that want to see. When he goes, who do you see as being the face of MAGA? Vance has the personality of a raw potato. Desantis has views virtually identical to Trump, but nobody really likes him.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, I've seen wet blankets with more charisma than those last two. "JD" "Vance" definitely gives off a lot of failson vibes - weirdly, he seems a lot like Uday and Qusay Trump.

    And then DeSantis seems he's always trying to be this fake alpha dickbag with that "take that mask off" stuff being growled at a goddamned KID and stomping around in those high heels of his, LOL.

    At least with Taco, many dipshits seem to think this fancy-pants Manhattanite that never worked a day in his life and skipped out on service due to "bone spurs" is not in fact a gigantic pussy, but a real Man's Man. I just don't see the slack-jawed yokels going for couch fucker in mascara or the height-challenged guy prancing around in high heels.

    But then again, I've been wrong before. I thought they'd see right through the guy with a 2 hour hair and makeup routine who was known for decades as a bullshit loud-mouthed con artist....

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    You misread me. Bernie is cool. But there is no one else. Once he’s gone, that’s it. There’s no group, he’s one man.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    That's absolutely not true, Graham Platner is running to unseat Susan Collins in Maine with a very "no war but a class war" mentality, and it's really working to bring people back into the light of reality. It's a tactic that works, drop the identity politics, focus on the blatant unfairness of our current model of capitalism and try to make working class people's life better instead of demonizing them for having been taken by propaganda and fear.

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