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[–] 155 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I clicked it, so you don't have to:

After testing random people with various computer programs that asked them to rotate objects, they found that some people were able to complete the tasks with inverted or non inverted controls, despite the fact that they had claimed to prefer the opposite. The researchers claim that some people's brains are just wired to perform better one way or the other despite how they originally learned.

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  • [–] 68 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Makes sense. Some controls work better when inverted.

    I always use inverted when flying but anything ground based is non inverted.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    As someone who uses scissor lifts a lot, I wish the manufacturers standardized on one way. Some have you push the joystick forward to descend, others will raise the platform when doing the same. I've damn near smashed some things in the ceiling going the wrong way for a second.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Well that's nice for dynamic people like you, but for dolts like me it will just mess me up trying to switch back and forth.

    You people would have an aneurysm if you saw what I did with the rest of the controls to maintain consistency.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Not even sure what counts as inverted for flying, push the stick forwards = dive, pull it back = climb. Pretty sure that is normal for flight sims though because that is how you fly a plane. Space sims end up going with the same kind of input usually.

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  • I always use inverted.

    I first played flying simulators as a kid, and inverted makes a ton of sense. 3D shooters weren't really a thing yet, so when they became a thing, I kept using inverted controls and it was comfortable.

    I can switch, but it takes some getting used to, and my error rate is higher.

    That said, when I use a mouse, I want up (forward) to go up, and down (backward) to go down, so the inverted controls are only for controllers w/ joysticks.

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  • [–] 59 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Invert Y-axis gang unite!

    Make Y-axis INVERTED Default Again

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I used to play inverted then started gaming on pc. Now when I use a controller its like neither is good for me - my brain will sometimes think inverted and other times non-inverted mid play session

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I find that for me this happens especially often in 3rd person camera control. And I think it has to do with the distance between the camera and the controlled actor.

    Think driving a car, and the camera moving up close to the car when you're under something like a bridge which would otherwise clip the camera. At that point my preference for camera controll switches from 'orbit object' mode to 'aim' mode so to say.

    Does that make sense?

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  • Yeah, that screws me up too. For first person games, joystick forward to look down makes intuitive sense to me, because I'm controlling the axis of the head (comes from airplane sims). For third person games, now I'm controlling the camera, and it's not so clear.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Seriously, on older games pushing up to look forward was the default. It was only later that they decided to call it inverted.

    I just don’t get why anyone would use non-inverted. Why would I tilt my head forward to look up?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think the core of this dispute is the intuition of each person of what exactly they're moving and how they're moving it.

    Like I have never once considered, until just now by reading your comment, that the stick could controlling my characters head. I've always intuitively thought that I'm controlling "the point in space that my character is looking at."

    Changing this makes one way make more sense than the other. Like, despite my preference for non inversion, I would fully concede that if I were to imagine the stick controlling the head directly that inversion makes plenty of sense.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yup. I started w/ flight sims, so the controller controlling the airplane made sense. When I transitioned to FPS games, the controller controlling the head made logical sense. I'm not the character, I'm controlling the character, so why shouldn't the character work like a plane?

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  • Invert Y-axis gang!

    There's fewer and fewer people who use inverted controls, I've found. Makes sense, I'm old and it just became muscle memory for me after playing Goldeneye til my thumbs bled back in the day. It's more of a pain in the ass now, since non-inverted seems to be the norm and I always have to hunt to change it any time I fire up a game with camera controls.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Fascinating read.
    I liked learning about the "Simon effect", only knew about similar, non-spatial ones (colours)...
    And I might give non-inverted controls a try, although being a die-hard inverter.
    At least it will be some brain stimulus to keep me from cognitive aging too fast. Like changing the mouse hand from right to left and back again once in a while.
    And at best I will become the unbeatable Über-Player, because in truth I am a hidden non-inverter! ;-)

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Why do they mean by "inverted controls? I remember that in some SNES games you could literally invert your controls and play with ABXY as if it were your D-Pad, and your D-Pad as yours ABXY buttons.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Usually it refers to joystick directions being reversed (common for flight simulators) or the "Southpaw" control methods on console controllers (designed for lefty users).

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    I’ve never seen a flight sim with reversed controls. They all work like a real plane joystick from what I’ve seen.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yeah, that's inverted controls. Push the joystick up to go down, and down to go up.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not a true sim, but Ace Combat 7 novice controls are non-inverted. I feel like Far Cry 5/6 and definitely Fortnite put the non-inverted pitch control on the planes, which were not the focus of the game. I assumed other plane-including games did the same.

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  • 11 comments in c/gaming@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 29 points 1 year ago

    Clickbait title.

    In short, gamers think they are an inverter or a non-inverter because of how they were first exposed to game controls. Someone who played a lot of flight sims in the 1980s may have unconsciously taught themselves to invert and now they consider that their innate preference; alternatively a gamer who grew up in the 2000s, when non-inverted controls became prevalent may think they are naturally a non-inverter. However, cognitive tests suggest otherwise. It’s much more likely that you invert or don’t invert due to how your brain perceives objects in 3D space.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    Goldeneye forced me to invert. Now its also flight sims

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Flight sims made me invert when playing with a controller but k/m I dont invert. I used to back in the 90s but it became clear that I would be a problem moving forward so I taught myself not to.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Im not even consistent, it very much depends on the game I am playing. FPS games fet non inverted, but anything heavily utilizing vehicles is inverted.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Same, for me it's about perspective and what I'm controlling. In an FPS, I'm controlling the view window and I want it to directly follow my intention: non-inverted.

    In a 3rd person game like Dark Souls, I'm controlling an external camera. It's the angle I'm viewing my character from and not necessarily the frame of the scene I am considering: inverted.

    Flying games? Inverted. Rail shooter like Panzer Dragoon, I'm controlling the absolute position of a targeting reticle: non-inverted.

    Those are just by preferences and how I perceive things, some people may take the opposite stand than me. But even those aren't strict rules, if a specific game doesn't feel right I'll try mixing it up to see if something works better for whatever reason.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    That's similar to how I do it, except that I also invert most FPSes.

    Basically, my mental model is that I move the camera around. In third-person games with a from-behind perspective, the character's position is usually a fulcrum that the camera pivots around. So if I want to look up I have to pull the camera down. Hence inverted.

    For first-person games I'm less consistent with inverting but I usually do. The camera may not pivot around a point ahead of it but in my head it pivots around a point directly at its front. Some games don't feel like that to me but most do.

    That's also why I insist on inverting my mouse wheel, by the way – my mental model is not that I send up or down commands to the computer, it's that I push the document up or down with my finger like I would on a smartphone. The mouse wheel is a touchscreen surrogate. Having the document move up when I push it up feels wrong.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    I actually switched from inverter to non inverter after some time not playing with a controller. After the break inverted controls felt wrong 🤷‍♂️

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I play with non-inverted controls 99% of the time, but for some reason when I'm flying a starship/plane in first-person, I invert the flight controls. If I'm in a ship in third-person, I tend to prefer non-inverted although I can play with both. I think it matters how physically close I am to the fulcrum (wrong word?) of the rotation, combined with the fact that the thing I'm rotating isn't myself, but the contraption I'm travelling in. On foot in first-person, inverted controls don't work for me at all.

    It's like if you imagine you're controlling a seesaw in a 3D environment. The seesaw is positioned such that it forms a vertical line on the screen in a top-down or isometric view. You're adding or removing weight to the bottom-most end. If you press down on your controller, you add pressure/weight and so the top-most end moves upwards, which is equivalent to the front of your plane/ship rising upwards. I think that's kinda why it feels more intuitive for me to fly ships with inverted controls. It's about where you place your consciousness in 3D space.

    Another example is scrolling a document on a computer. Some people I know, when they say "scroll up for me", they mean "move the document upwards", while others say it to mean "move the viewport upwards in relation to the document" (so the text moves downwards). Besides it being a simple language issue, I think the idea that one person thinks of the system as being "I control a viewport" and another person thinks of it as "I control the document itself" is similar to the inverted/non-inverted controls debate. Where your mind's eye is sitting is hugely important.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    a functional central nervous system

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Mandatory "the pro who plays CS like a flight Sim" video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0HDT9VdcJs

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  • 1 comment in c/hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se view that post
    [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    While playing a FPS game on my PC, I usually switch shooting to right mouse click. Right click generally doesn't get much action in the real world and left button is less worn out. Balanced as all things should be.

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