Over the past few decades, the number of Americans who identify as religiously unaffiliated—often referred to as “nones”—has grown rapidly. In the 1970s, only about 5% of Americans fell into this category. Today, that number exceeds 25%. Scholars have debated whether this change simply reflects a general decline in belief, or whether it signals something more complex. The research team wanted to explore the deeper forces at play: Why are people leaving institutional religion? What are they replacing it with? And how are their personal values shaping that process?

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[–] [S] 72 points 1 year ago (14 children)

I support a few religious organizations through volunteer work.

My rules for these organizations are simple:

  1. The religion takes a back seat to helping the community
  2. They're not preachy or trying to convert people
  3. They don't diddle little kids.

You'd think it'll be easy to meet that criteria.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    How would you even know if #3 was true or not, it's not like they advertise it.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Only one I can think of is Unitarian Universalist for all 3. Maybe some sort of Buddhism? Though probably have broken #3 and are very big/organized.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Can unitarian universalist even be considered a religion? Isn't it just a catch-all group for people to get together and worship in a more harmonious way?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I mean they have 8 guiding principles but it's a fair point. I feel like the term religion is used very loosely there, but I do wonder what religion that DOES have strong guiding tenents that isn't at least mildly aggressive about them.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    Yeah I used to think ''how do Catholics manage to keep going?'' Then my church fought a lawsuit to get them to report child abuse, then bought insurance to buffer any financial loss they might incur while protecting child rapists. I feel like Jesus telling people that if they feel like hurting kids they should stop, take a deep breath, and commit suicide, kind of forbids this sort of behavior.

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  • [+] 62 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    I guess messed up ideas about sexuality and consent in general aren’t strictly under their purview. Or, subservience to arbitrary authority figures.

    What about rape in a rectory? Probably doesn’t happen too often outside of a religious context.

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  • [–] 179 points 1 year ago (39 children)

    Well, my whole life, I've lived in a society where organized Christianity has overwhelmingly been a force for evil, rather than a force for good. Fuck, I straight-up believe that most Evangelical Christians are devil worshipers. If your religion leads you to hate, you aren't worshiping God, you're worshiping the Devil.

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  • [–] 80 points 1 year ago (30 children)

    Christianity is, by definition, a cult of human sacrifice.

    Kinda puts the entire faith into perspective.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago (17 children)
  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    They ritualistically eat the body and blood of their god/savior.

    Let that sink in.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    They wear symbols of a torturous execution device as jewelry, and use it to decorate their homes.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    the thing is that the cross has taken on new meaning in christianity. to them, it's not so much a "torturous execution device" as you have said, but rather proof that jesus christ can even live after that. in this way, it is a symbol of life after death, somehow.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Right. I was replying to someone who reframed a tradition of Christianity in a way which highlighted how it could be seen as disturbing or bizarre to someone who was unfamiliar with Christianity; I simply did the same with another tradition.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I've often asked them if the cross was what killed their "god", what would they be wearing nowadays, if Jizzus was raped by a roman soldier and died as a result of that, but they never answer. 🤣

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    And they're carcass worshippers. Think about it: they collect and pray to the body parts of different "saints"- hands, legs, skulls. etc. If you look through their own commandments, they'll be the first on the line to their hell. 😆

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Death Cult Armageddon, great Dimmu album. My parents got it for me along with Enthrone Darkness Triumphant for Christmas one year but they wouldn’t buy me Diablo II because Diablo “didn’t fit the theme of the holiday.”

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Suicidal Death Cult

    They are actively doing everything in their power to bring about the end of the world.

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  • though according to their belief, the "end of the world" is actually the start of a new, eternal world.

    also, as far as i'm aware of, it's not so much the "end of the world", but rather the "end of time", where time refers to the progression towards god.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    Dooms day death cult.

    Lead by Jesus, the dooms day death cult leader.

    I hear he's a "good guy."

    I don't think dooms day death cult leaders, make believe or not and I just mean a historical grifter non magical, are good people.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Cannibal death cult, If you take part in the sacrament. That is, quite literally, internally perceived as ritual cannibalism.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Fwiw, the belief that it becomes the actual flesh of Jesus is a Catholic thing, by my understanding. In my Protestant upbringing, it was regarded as entirely symbolic.

    Oh, and we did it with grape juice instead of wine, because apparently Jesus hated alcohol or something. Just don't ask why then his first miracle was turning water into wine.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    The grape juice was used because a lot of evangelicals are teetotalers and think even a shot of wine is gonna corrupt peeps.

    Which, goes to the other reason Protestants frequently don’t: they don’t see a need to serve wine, while they don’t want to potentially cause an alcoholic to stumble. The chance might be small, but then it’s all symbolic anyway.

    Also, grape juice is cheaper.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Not really; one guy died, by his own choice, but came back to life two days later. A real "cult of human sacrifice" would require it as an ongoing practice and for the victims to stay dead.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Just because there was only one sacrificial offering doesn't mean jesus wasn't a sacrificial offering.

    The whole thing about jesus being both fully god and fully man is that no "normal" human would ever be sinless- and therefore would be an inadequate sacrifice. Therefore god became man- that is, jesus- whose sole purpose was to be a "perfect" sacrifice.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    But isn’t the whole trinity thing God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit the same entity? So God sacrificed himself for himself… wouldn’t really call a two day nap for some eternal being a sacrifice either.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    You're expecting it all to make sense. It's like a the lies a 2 year old tells to explain and justify having gotten into the chocolate cake, after having tried to lay it off like they hadn't (missing the whole having it all over their face thing,).

    The longer they're allowed to go, and the more you poke holes the weirder it gets.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This was always my biggest struggle growing up in a catholic house. "He sacrificed himself to save everyone who came before and will come after."

    Like, is that really that big of a deal? Shit if i was presented with the option of a much smaller number than infinity, idk say 1000, id sacrifice myself. AND i don't know that I'm god or that my father is god and that ill be taken care of for all eternity.

    In all reality, that numbers way less than 1000 for strangers, and if you include anyone i know/care about, that number could be as low as 1.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Jesus alone doesn't make it a death cult. It's a death cult because the whole religion is predicated on death. Dying is the entire point. Your entire life is a means to gain the rewards of dying and only then will you truly be happy.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So much wrongitude here I don't know if this is genuinely what you think or if you're just trolling.

    Jesus came to earth so that we could know God, here and now. To nick someone else's quote: It's not pie in the sky when you die, it's steak on your plate while you wait. John 10:10: "I have some so that they may have life, and have it to the full."

    I suggest you read the Bible some time. Start with the Gospels, either Luke or John. Not as a means to convert you, but so that you can understand what Christianity is really about, instead of spouting uninformed nonsense about it. You're currently the equivalent of those Christians who say the equivalent of "evolution is just a theory".

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Your reward is in heaven right? So the endgame is death. You might get to eat steak while you are alive but you dont get the whole meal until you die. That's a death cult.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    No. John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

    My "reward" is right here, right now. While I'm still alive.

    A death cult encourages people either to kill or to die. Christianity is not one of those.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    If your religion leads you to hate, you aren’t worshiping God, you’re worshiping the Devil.

    And this is how wars between religions start...

    Maybe try to move away from that God/Devil thing. It's a foolish, naive, human-centered worldview.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Ok, we can restate it. If your religion leads you to hate, you aren’t on the side of good, you’re on the side of bad?

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    alright, but is the world really as black and white as that? Is there really a clear Good Side, and a clear Bad Side?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Religious people seem to think so. But we can restate again: If your religion leads you to hate, your religion may cause you to act unethically.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I was trying to make the point that there is no Good and Bad baked into the universe. There is no meaning to those words inherent to the universe - they are not like positive charge and negative charge.

    IMO what people generally mean when they say a person is "good" is the person makes decisions based on what is beneficial to society at large, while a "bad" person makes decisions based solely on what benefits them. The idea of Good and Bad, the idea you can judge someone as either Good or Bad, these are ideas which have arisen under evolutionary pressure, it's a mechanism whereby you can enforce a particular behaviour across a community.

    There's nothing magic about it. If a person is good, they help make their community stronger: if they are bad, they weaken it. People raised in a traditional religious household seem to cling on to the misplaced idea that there is an absolute Good and an absolute Bad sewn into the fabric of the universe.

    However, there is a way to determine more rigourously what actions are good and what are bad. It requires clear thinking, objective appraisal of the situation, and an unbiased enumeration of the choices available. Then you can hope to come to a realistic assessment of each choice, and finally make your decision.

    You won't be certain, you shouldn't be certain. You should be aware of the limitations of your understanding, and always ready to adapt to new information. And you certainly will not be influenced by what you might imagine the Devil would make of it all.

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    insight into why.

    Because it's not fucking real?

    This isn't rocket surgery.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That hasn't become any more or less true in recent years, though. It's worth asking why people are now thinking of the idea differently than they did for the past several thousand

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    Well I suppose there's still no proof that there never was a so-called "divine Y-chromosome" as believed in by Christians, but before we knew about DNA, or even human cells, the ridiculous legends of religion were definitely harder to refute. The ridiculousness of those legends was a big part of their power - the more stupid and unhinged a religious story appears to us today, the more in awe believers would have been about it 300 or 400 years ago.

    So while religion hasn't become less real in recent years, it has become a lot easier to point out its absurdities.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Because it's all horseshit?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I was going to say bullshit but either will do.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago

    Lmao because it's horse shit that's why

    Source: me, a 37-yo exmormon who was all-in, true believer, until his mid 20s.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago

    The faster the better. It’s fundamentalists creating a lot of the problems in the world as they try to force their beliefs on others.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago

    My guess is that the extreme hatred flowing out of outspoken "Christians" in the US is a huge turn-off, as it should be.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago

    Because it's a grift?

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago

    Part of this is just that the socially conservative pressure to fit in has eased. Time was you had to be "religious" to fit in to communities and it was seen as part of American identity.

    I find it hard to believe 75% of Americans are religious. In the UK 37% identify as non religious. 45% identify as Christian yet churches have emptied our and most young people only end up in one for marriages or funerals. People say they're Christian but I have no doubt a large chunk of those people are just ticking a box on a census form as it's part of their identity.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    Better understanding of the physical world than previous generations, for one thing. That and the advent of TV and Internet made it much harder to hide the hypocrisy and crimes.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    should be happening with gen z and alpha too, but gen z has more right wingers than previous generations, due to significant propaganda.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I always wonder what made millennials so left compared to every generation before and after.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    the younger generation were considerablly more right wing than thier gen xers or boomer parents. gen z became mroe right wing due to people like tate, incel-ism, right wing grifters preying on these groups.

    milleneals at least grew up with pickup artists, it was mostly fringe until gen z made it more mainstream.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago

    No no no, this ancient religion from the Middle East based off of several other cultures mythology is the TRUTH!

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Everyone, myself included always come back to the same reason - there is no proof.

    If I was given actual proof of a god or pantheon or any other ridiculous nonsense I’d absolutely change my mind but actual proof magic exists can’t exist because magic isn’t real

    I fully accept that I don’t and can’t truly understand the universe but where the fuck does that somehow morph into “god did it” it’s ok not to know everything I don’t need made up bullshit to fill the gaps so I can feel better about not having every answer. Live with not knowing, that’s what being human is meant to be, acceptance

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    god definitely exists, as it's just a philosophical concept to say the "cause of all causes". by definition, such a thing exists, i would say.

    the issue is more with organized religion. there's a lot of rules and bureaucracy in it, and most of that is outdated.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    god definitely exists, as it's just a philosophical concept to say the "cause of all causes".

    I hope you stretched before making that leap.

    Snark aside, this is just a dressed-up version of the "god of the gaps" argument, and is by no means proof of the existence of god. Changing the definition of "god" to be the "cause of all causes" is uselessly broad at best, and misattribution at worst - the "cause of all causes" may very well be a natural phenomenon, at which point attributing it to "god" is just straight up incorrect.

    by definition, such a thing exists, i would say.

    Actually, maybe not. There's some new theories and evidence suggesting that it's possible that the universe is eternal, as in it has always existed, making the existence of a "cause of all causes" impossible (unless of course you also water down the definition of that phrase to the point where it's meaningless).

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    god definitely exists, as it’s just a philosophical concept to say the “cause of all causes”.

    Most believers will assert that their god exists in a different, more concrete way. The number of persons able or willing to discuss the topic on your terms is an insignificant minority.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    I feel like the unloved sect is really the unitarian universalists. They're basically a doctrine free "church" of social justice. Like, I love going sometimes and just getting more advice on how to be an excellent human to others. And then we have snacks.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Because I don't need God to be a good person, or know what good morals are.

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  • Most of us get our sense of decency from the inside. Some can only find it in a book. Which is more dangerous the person who sense of right and wrong are with them or the ones who are just one crisis of faith from not having any?

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I feel like they're missing an important point

    Most organized religions blue the line between clergy and god so followers need to believe their religious leaders are pretty close to infallible, like God is claimed to be.

    However with modern society, information is easy to get and everywhere. So people know about organized religion's issues, and without that structure and reinforcement, we see a slower but substantial reduction in general belief in God that will continue for generations as less people are indoctrinated into organized religion at a young age.

    Not sure why the author acts like it's a mystery

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Most organized religions blue the line between clergy and god so followers need to believe their religious leaders are pretty close to infallible, like God is claimed to be.

    Can you explain what you mean by this? It's probably obvious to Westerners, but I'm not sure how this works in practice.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Most organized religions blue the line between clergy and god so followers need to believe their religious leaders are pretty close to infallible, like God is claimed to be.

    It's because the fundamental purpose of religion is control for the purpose of concentrating power.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    It’s because the fundamental purpose of religion is control for the purpose of concentrating power.

    Not at first, but the people in the organization who want that will rise to the top due to ruthlessness.

    Especially because the already established religions in the area will try to crush the new one, and that persecution makes that concentration of power a necessity to fight back. Which is a reason even dominant religions still claim they're being persecuted.

    It's not just a religious issue, it's just sociology in general. Humans evolved for groups of like 250 people, so all our gut instincts are shit when scaled up to millions of people. To compensate we fall back to labels and generalizations, and nuance goes out the window.

    Exploiting all that makes it easy to move up in any power structure, so on a long enough timeline the majority of people in charge are going to be willing to do anything to increase their organization's power, because that increases their personal power.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago*

    Here's my theory why:

    • People nowadays have higher average education and can much more easilly spot the logical inconsistences in Religion.
    • People are so overexposed and overwhelmed by swindles in the modern era that they are more naturally spotting the swindle nature of ancient swindles such as Religion.
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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    For their study, Schnabel and his colleagues used data from the National Study of Youth and Religion. This included four waves of longitudinal survey data and 183 in-depth interviews conducted from 2003 to 2013. The sample included over 1,300 individuals, each tracked from adolescence into young adulthood. [...] The number of respondents attending religious services dropped dramatically between 2003 and 2013.

    The study used data that's 12 years old! Millennials are not young adults anymore. At this point it's well known that Americans, especially the younger cohorts, are moving away from religion, so why even bother reanalyzing ancient data?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It is very useful to reanalyze old data. Recently, a study came out that concluded that we have misunderstood the role of nutrition and calories in fitness, and it examined studies over a period of decades to come to the conclusions. You don't always need new data to make new conclusions.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Gen Z is more religious and conservative, than millennials, a lot more

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Generally less able to identify scams so, it tracks.

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  • I'm not sure they got to play the tutorial levels that we did.

    A lot of us millennials had hotmail accounts that got the actual stereotypical Nigerian Prince emails. They were obvious as shit, so we learned to put our guard up. Gen Z came of age into a world full of pig butchering scams and other such sophisticated shit.

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