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[–] 57 points 1 year ago (18 children)

How about talking to the landlords who refuse to install EV chargers? Or maybe talk to manufacturers who won't sell a basic EV that isn't overpriced?

This is just "Am I out of touch? No it's the children who are wrong!" again.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    What do landlords have to do with it? Can you not power the charger off 110V or 220V? Do you need a higher amp circuit cut in, larger than 30A? (American question obviously.)

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Some apartment buildings are nowhere near where tenets park vehicles. Running extention cables would be a mess and dangerous

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    fast charging requires a larger service connection than a wall outlet. you can slow charge from a normal wall outlet, but it will take ages to fully charge a modest battery.

    generally people have it installed by an electrician, running a new conduit from the circuit breaker.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    For home charging to keep up with a commute, a normal wall outlet all night long is fine. It just needs to be installed where the car is parked, and it should have some protection from weather while the car is plugged in.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    220V? Better than 30A? I'm asking what I would need to install in my home. I have no clue on this.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    The work isn't hard - I did it myself (I checked my spare parts box and discovered the only thing I was missing was the cover for the outlet, so it cost me $3). However if you don't know what you are doing around electric I can't train you on the internet. While you can find good instructions via a simple search you can also find instructions that are dangerous and if you don't know what you are doing you won't know the difference.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    How much do you drive in a year? What kind of car are you looking at?

    For the average driver, a 120V (normal) outlet on a smaller car is actually perfectly fine most of the time. If you think you might get a bigger car, or multiple EVs, you may want to look into a level 2 setup. And while you're at it, use thicker wires so you can run more power through it. But don't feel like you have to go overboard. I think the sweet "buy once, cry once, hard to come up with a situation where this isn't enough" number is a 50 amp 240V circuit running a 40A charge cord (always charge at 80% of your circuit rating, max).

    But if your panel can't take it or you want to do it cheaper or whatever, a 20A 240V circuit is on the lower end of the level 2 spectrum and it can still do a lot... Like, more than double that "average driver" amount for level 1. And here's the fun part: everyone is so afraid of 240V and think it takes special wiring or whatever. It really doesn't. I've got a 240V air compressor outlet on a 20A circuit, just like what I suggested a minute ago. It uses the exact same wiring as the 120V next to it. The only difference? It's connected to two "opposing" hots with a double breaker (not terribly more expensive) rather than a single hot on a single breaker plus a neutral as you'd see on 120V. All you need to do is wrap the white wire (usually neutral) with a colored (not green, that's ground) electrical tape to indicate that it carries current. Do it on both sides. Easy peasy, up to code, and uses really affordable wiring.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    In the us, home chargers will typically run on 240 volts, similar to a dryer or electric stove.

    The amperage can be as low as 16 amps (not common) and up to 40 amps. There are higher amperage chargers, but they're not super common. Most homes dont have that much capacity provisioned and adding it to the breaker box means new circuits and often the power company has to provide a higher capacity meter. It gets expensive.

    Since volts x amps = watts, a 240 volt charger that operates at 40 amps will charge at 9600 watts or 9.6 kilowatts (maximum).

    You can charge using a standard 120v outlet, most are rated for 15 amps. However, you will get 120v x 15a = 1800 watts or 1.8 kilowatts (maximum).

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Don't forget the 80% rule! Because those ratings are made for shorter periods of time drawing electricity, and cars usually charge for hours, you need to charge at 80% of the circuit rating. So really you'll charge at 120V x 12A =1.4kW. Not only that, but if you have anything else on that circuit you need to leave room for that too. My car defaults to 8A on level 1 unless you tell it to do 12, in which case you get just under a kilowatt.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Also, volts and amps are apples and oranges. Home electric circuits mostly run on 120 volts, but some bigger things like stoves and central air run on 240 volts instead. Amperage is the other piece of the puzzle. Wire sizing is largely based on how many amps the circuit can carry. Multiply the two together, and you get watts. Divide that number by 1000, and you get kilowatts.

    My car's battery has a capacity of 65 kilowatt-hours, meaning it can run 65 kilowatts for an hour, 1 kilowatt for 65 hours, 13 kilowatts for 5 hours... You get the idea. Same idea goes for charging. My 240V 40A charging setup (which runs on a 50A breaker) can give almost 10 kilowatts of power, meaning my battery will be charged 0-100 in about 6.5 hours. A regular outlet gives about a kilowatt and can do it in about 65 hours. But before you think that's useless, remember that you can easily plug in daily and if you only use a fraction of your battery each day, it's no big deal at all!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Or maybe talk to manufacturers who won’t sell a basic EV that isn’t overpriced?

    This is huge. Keep in mind, every additional bullshit "feature" in your car will end up costing you more than it costs the business.

    This is why we've been conditioned to accept so much superfluous bullshit as possible.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Couldn't be that most Americans can't afford new cars.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Because they keep buying shit they don't need and hording it in the garage, while their car sits outside in the driveway exposed to the elements.

    Hyperinflation and incoming recession aside, Americans have been using their garages for junk storage for many decades.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Don't get me wrong, most of them spend money like morons while complaining they need more.

    However, electric vehicles are still just too expensive of an investment to justify to the average American.

    This could probably be fixed if the leeches maximizing profit off of them made less profit, but why would they do that unless they're forced to?

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago

    People can't afford a new car, let alone an EV, let alone a carport or car hole.

    This is just tone deaf poor blaming.

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  • [–] 101 points 1 year ago* (50 children)

    It ain’t the junk in the garage, it’s the $80k and the spyware

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  • [–] 61 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

    Yup. Find me a car that respects my privacy and won't advertise to me and I'm in.

    Edit to add: and no fuucking subscriptions to enable things the car can already do but disabled in software.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    How clean is your garage? Do you have one? Just curious.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I do not understand people who use their garage to store useless crap and leave their car outside. The car is more valuable than the crap.

    Dump all that useless junk into a dumpster. Get a bike shed, put the mower in it too.

    The garage is for cars, not bikes, mowers or trash nobody cares about.

    Looking at you California.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    The car is more valuable than the crap.

    Only if you spend way too much money on a depreciating asset that won't be that valuable for long. For that matter storing inside or outside makes zero difference to the value. The stuff in my garage is more valuable than my car (my car is 26 years old so this is a much lower bar than most people), is more sensitive to weather than my cars, and I enjoy it more than cars.

    I don't get this obsession people have with depreciating assets like cars. They brag about how great they are, take good care of it, and then 3 years latter trade in that piece of junk...

    Besides, the worst weather for cars is bright sun, and most cars are parked outside in a parking lot (at work) when it is sunny, and only put in the garage when it is dark.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I'm not in the US, but here where we have snow and all the fun that comes with it using garage can be actually harmful to your car (and your garage) unless you spend a ton of energy to melt and dry all the snow every night. If there's some snow or ice on somewhere it doesn't really do anything but bring it in a lukewarm garage and then you have water (and likely road salt) all over the thing. So your car corrodes faster and there's a ton of moisture in the garage for mold, rot and everything else prospering inside.

    I'm driving old, cheap cars. Keeping them dry them every day during winter in the garage would easily cost me as much as the cars themselves in a year. So cars stay outside and garage stores my tools and other valuables in a good condition so that I can fix those old shitboxes.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    my ford EV has no subscriptions (other than the usual sirius XM and nav subs that all cars have). There is data collection but you are able to opt out.

    Also this is more of an issue with new cars in general, not a reason to choose a new ICE vehicle over a new EV.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    If the car has an RF transmitter of any kind installed, it is a HARD no.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    is an RF transmitter in your phone a hard no as well?

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  • I reckon it soon shall be, the way such things are trending.

    The point you're trying to make is, if I willingly carry around a battery powered security hole in my pocket all the time, why should I be concerned about another one installed in my vehicle?

    Well, should I decide I wish to travel without being monitored, I can leave my phone behind and still travel rapidly.

    My phone does not have access to my vehicle's CAN bus; my phone cannot disable the vehicle from afar should it detect I performed my own repairs or that I am not christian or that my skin is browner than the dictator will tolerate or whatever else the police will decide to murder me for.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

    As opposed to what your comment implies, the drivetrain (EV or ICE) has nothing to do with cars spying on you. You should not blame the technology itself because shady car companies spying on your internet connected car. Most of them are well known ICE car brands that do the spying (GM, Volkswagen for instance)

    Yes, most new ICE cars are Internet connected now, not just EVs.

    Blame those greedy corporations, not the technology.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (13 children)

    exactly, data collection is an issue with new cars in general. It's not a reason to buy a new ICE car instead of a new EV.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    It is a reason to not buy a new car which means people who aren't buying new cars won't be buying EV's.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    They won't be buying new cars in the near future, but their cars will be wearing out and spare parts for old cars always become hard to find. Either they will be spending a large part of their time maintaining the car, including making parts from scratch, or they will forced to buy a new car anyway.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Our 10 year-old Highlander still drives like new. It's our newest vehicle, and one of Toyota's last generation of vehicles without a cellular connection.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    The average car is 12 years old. Car makers start to drop support (making/stocking parts) when the car is about 10 years old. Come back and talk to me about that car when is is 25 years old and tell me how it is. I have a 26 year old truck, the bed has holes, the frame is showing signs of rot - I'm trying to decide if it is worth trying to rebuild the transmission, my mechanic isn't intersted in part because they are not sure if they can find the parts - they will be more than $1000 in labor in before they know wihch bearing it has and thus can check if it can be had.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    The average car is 12 years old. Car makers start to drop support (making/stocking parts) when the car is about 10 years old.

    I haven't had any issues with getting parts for my 2008 Sienna, or parts for my 2007 Honda Metropolitan scooter. But the Sienna uses the 2GR-FE though, which only recently stopped production a few years ago, and the scooter is based on the still-currently produced Ruckus 🤔... Still.

    Come back and talk to me about that car when is is 25 years old and tell me how it is.

    No need - I have two 46 year-old vehicles: a 1980 Honda XR500 motorcycle from 08/79, and a 1980 Mercedes 240D from 12/79. The motorcycle is currently torn apart in the garage, undergoing a full restoration. Believe me dude, I know aaaaaaall about the frustrations of long-discontinued parts 😂😂

    I have a 26 year old truck, the bed has holes, the frame is showing signs of rot - I’m trying to decide if it is worth trying to rebuild the transmission, my mechanic isn’t intersted in part because they are not sure if they can find the parts - they will be more than $1000 in labor in before they know wihch bearing it has and thus can check if it can be had.

    Man I feel that so hard with the Mercedes. Poor thing has cancer and I'm not sure if it's possible to save in its current condition. It's got almost half a million miles, but goddamn it drives so, so nice... I think it needs a clutch though. Luckily, since W123 cars are sought-after classics at this point, there are still options, but it's gonna be a hell of a process if I decide to attempt a restoration. My dad (with help from me and my siblings, friends, and neighbors) somehow managed to save a pretty rusty 1963 VW Beetle almost 20 years ago, was about a 5 year process. That car recently went to a collector... I'm mad about it, but only in the "goddammit I wanted to inherit it" kinda way 😅

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    The average car in the US is 12 years old. That average is higher in other countries. But regardless, that's not because cars are unfixable. It's because most people opt to buy a new or newer car when they feel like the vehicle they currently own is more expensive to fix than they'd like and a lot of that has nothing to do with the longevity of the vehicle and everything to do with how vehicle purchase can be financed vs how car repair can be financed.

    It also has a lot to do with people who don't or won't fix things before they snowball, and or become astronomically expensive problems. Taking care of a vehicle is about doing regular maintenance (which most people don't do), and getting at the very least an annual inspection (which most people also don't do unless they're forced to).

    I won't be buying a new car ever. I can say that with absolute certainty. I have rehabbed my current car in just about every way I can. Machined/honed block, new valves, new piston/lan rings, new head gasket, new water pump, new thermostat housing, new valve cover, new injectors, rebuilt transmission with new clutch, all new hoses, all new gaskets, new HP fuel pump. I will continue to do so because to me it's worth it. Doner cars are readily available, but I probably won't need one specifically because my car is considered and enthusiast car. I have walked into a dealer and ordered parts and my car is 15 years old. I also owned a 20 year old version of this car with the same ability to order parts directly from the dealer.

    Most people aren't buying used unless they have no choice. They will continue to buy new cars regardless of the controversy surrounding them.

    I think it's a bit disingenuous assume that older cars will not be available. Especially considering that the EV's that are new right now aren't going to survive 25 years without costly repairs of their own. I'd salvage an engine from an older car. I wouldn't salvage a battery pack from an older car.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    You could always pick up a 9-year-old Bolt

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    Not worth the cost of admission. The amount of money it costs to refurb that battery pack is still too high.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    A bunch of the earlier ones had their batteries replaced under warranty and are effectively only a couple years old. They're also dirt cheap and undervalued at the moment.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I would argue that even if you did get a used one with new batteries, you'd still face degradation down the line and additional problems that would or could be mitigated in older ice cars which are much more likely to have replacement parts available (even if those replacement parts don't come from the same type or brand of vehicle). For instance. I know for a fact that there's a trend of using Honda engines in older first Gen mini coopers. Buying a rebuilt engine has the potential to be pretty cheap.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I have one of those Bolts.

    Not only was the battery replaced, the 8 year warranty on it was reset. Also, the idea that EV batteries die after a couple of years like in phones was unfounded. The batteries in EVs are actually properly temperature regulated unlike the ones in mobile phones. The primary degradation in an EV battery happens when the battery is new and stays basically flat for the rest of its life.

    EVs have been on the road long enough for studies to determine that most batteries will last at least as long as most people will own the car.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    After a couple of years? No. But 25 years isn't an unreasonable amount of time to want to own a vehicle if you take care of it. We treat vehicles these days like they're disposable and honestly I don't think a 25 year old battery pack is going to be particularly desirable.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (17 children)

    What does spyware have to do with EVs?

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  • [+] -19 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Apparently people are living double lives and are afraid their secret identity will be uncovered by checks notes corporations who already know more about us because we have a smartphone in our pocket.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Privacy matters.

    The government and corporations abused this information by stopping protestors getting to their destination.

    Protestors can atleast use faraday bags or just leave their phones at home. Now they can't even get to important events.

    Now this information is being used by ICE to arrest immigrants.

    Considering how conservative views and Nazis are coming back in to fashion, this is very scary for anyone not white and male.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Privacy matters. If it didnt, bathrooms would not have doors.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    Imagine Senate passes a law to put cameras in all toilet motion sensor. People still go, "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about. Genital recognition technology is used to identify criminals! Do you want criminals to get away?!"

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I have a used model 3 (I bought it before shit really started going downhill) and I've been contemplating disconnecting the wifi and cellular antennas. My car wouldn't be able to send any images/video anywhere, I wouldn't be tracked except for my location when I stop at supercharger stations, and I would never have to risk getting Grok installed in my car.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Would you mind posting your phone book and a copy of all your text messages here for us all to read? Can we see your photo album, all credit card transactions, amazon purchase history, GPS location data, credit score? We promise only to sell this info to other people, use it to sell you stuff, raise your insurance rates, tell us where to focus our funding for political campaigns. Don't worry, we'll only save it forever and you can be assured that we'll feed this into AI models 10 or 20 years from now, along with everyone else's data, establishing a massive cache of information from which incredible inferences will be possible. We may or may not use this information to enrich ourselves, increase wealth inequality, influence politics. You should surely not take steps to limit the data being collected about you. Just relax your body. Let it happen.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    Would you mind posting your phone book

    Did you know that before cellular phones were a thing, the phone company regularly sent out books with everyone's name, phone number, and sometimes even their address in them?

    You could even find such a book in public in these little things called "Phone booths".

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    And people were concerned. My grandpa only had initials published not his full name because he knew some widows [when my mom was a baby] afraid of crime who only published their initials and wanted to make things harder for those criminals who targeted on widows.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    You've missed the point. The phone numbers are not the valuable information. What's valuable is the list of each person's social contacts.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    You've missed the point.

    The point is the useful trivia I just told you.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I assume that the downvotes are from you and I notice that you haven't shared the information. I think that is a good and appropriate response. Nothing good can come you sharing this information here. Privacy is appropriate and valuable even for people who are doing nothing wrong and who aren't even particularly interesting.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    You're being a dick. All I did was share some info you might have found interesting. Fuck off.

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  • Atticus seemed to be saying that corporations already know everything about you because of your phone and that people are silly to try to protect their privacy, implying that these people are boring and really have nothing worth keeping private.

    I was trying to illustrate that people should and actually do value their privacy, and that they should continue to take measures to protect it.

    You come in with - bruh, have you ever heard of a phone book?

    The info you shared was not interesting and only served to convey your lack of critical thinking ability.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    with the used EV tax credit there are good options at ~20k.

    edit: why downvotes? the used EV market is bigger every year and if the price is under $25k you get a ~$4k credit.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Stupid article. You don't need 240 V , you can charge with a regular wall plug. For a lot of usage patterns this is more than enough.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    You can make it work on 120V, it just uses ~20-30% more energy due to the overhead of running all the vehicle systems for so much longer while charging.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I think that number is a bit off. Yes, there is overhead when charging a car to run its battery management system, heat losses in the wiring, etc. But it's not 20-30% of the ~kilowatt of power you'd run through level 1. A quick search says that 20% loss is at the higher end for level 1 (probably 15% on the lower end) but even level 2 has about a 10% loss.

    The bigger issue is that level 1 just doesn't have nearly as much power as level 2. Most cars charge at level 1 at 8-16 amps. Most level 2 setups charge at a few times that, plus the voltage is doubled so the total power ends up being about 10x as much. But that's not to say everyone needs that power either. Honestly, for the average driver it's quite easy to make level 1 work.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    battery management system, heat losses in the wiring, etc.

    No, that number corresponds to the WiFi you need to connect it to, to send all the telemetry and the LLM that will be running on some server in the US, picking data out of your telemetry and deciding which company to sell it to, while your car is powered.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Do you really think that or are you looking for an opportunity to make a statement?

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    to make a statement
    Create a certain impression; communicate an idea or mood

    Yes. Satire.
    I am poking at the current trend of evolution of products.

    Of course, cars are not wasting so much of energy on those things just by being turned on... Yet.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yeah... So for those of us more or less forced into a car-dependent city plan, EVs are pretty awesome and much better for the climate than an ICE car. But they also take a different mindset than the gas-powered cars we've spent decades living with.

    Muddying the waters with irrelevant comments like that, things not specific to EVs at all, doesn't help any. Yes, it happens, and yes, it's creepy. I even posted on the old site about how to disable it on my car (same username, feel free to check my posts). But when you add in stupid stuff like that, you're not helping anything.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    Money and options are hurting my adaption rate

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    Weird. I haven’t had a garage in a most of the places I’ve lived as an adult and I drive electric and charge at home just fine.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    That's irrelevant because as far as I know you don't actually have to have the car in the garage to be able to charge it you can put the charger on the outside if you want.

    Also I don't know how it is in America but my garage is literally too small for the car, I can just about get it in there but then I'm stuck because I can't open the door far enough to get out.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Many Americans have huge garages, some with room to park 2 or even 3 vehicles with plenty of space to walk around them. But even single garages are large enough to park cars.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Cars are much wider now than they used to be. Garages that were built more than 50 years ago likely are thinner.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    My grandparents house built just after ww2 had, what was for a long time, a standard two car garage. Enough room for two land yachts from the 70s, lawn care implements and various other stuff and you could still open the car doors all the way and walk around. My parents' house built in the 70s was the same. It's more recent construction in built up areas where they are shrinking. They've been getting smaller as developers try to cram more liveable sqft on smaller amounts of land.

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