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[–] 115 points 1 year ago (17 children)

I mean the problem with any projection of earth onto a 2d simplified shape surface is that it will be inherently distorted. The Mercator projection is scaled properly towards the equator but has to scale upwards more and more toward the poles to be able to fit the given area.

Even their own map, which for some reason isn’t shown in either the video or on the main page, isn’t accurate either. It’s better but is also warped in its own way, it would be nice if they had a little blurb that says something to that effect.

Here’s the actual map projection they are pushing for; https://equal-earth.com/equal-earth-projection.html

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  • [–] 140 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Fuck that. Let's go for the euler spiral.

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  • [–] 58 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    It seems like the kind of thing that would give rise to the ~ Earth movement

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Hey this is great. Is there a1440p version?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I mean, I'm not exactly thrilled about it erasing my country.. Did a cartographer from New Zealand make this as an act of revenge? 🤔

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Which country? It seems to all be there. It might be cut in half or upside down, but it's all there.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Oh wait, there it is! I was too disoriented to spot it, Denmark 😄

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  • [–] 83 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Since this article gave you everything except the one thing you want to see, here's what the Equal Earth projection looks like

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  • [–] 42 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yes, it is an awful website with an awful promotion video. Sizing the countries down but not connecting them and not showing you the world map as it would look like in total is absolutely not furthering the cause. I'm so mad I'm not sure I even want to sign the petition to be honest. Granted, my school atlas did not have the mercator projection.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Damn Russia is still that big? I thought the distortion played a large part in its size on the original map.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Greenland's not that big is it?

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  • [–] 71 points 1 year ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That projection shows how vast the Pacific is

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    It's almost two entire sections, with just a little of North America, Asia, and Antarctica. And then some on four others. It's obvious from a glance, no other body of water or land mass comes anywhere near that.

    And if you still don't think that's vast enough, maybe a lifetime of bad projections have given you a distorted view of the Pacific's size. Mercator and Mercator like projections definitely make the Pacific look much too large near the poles.

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  • [–] 70 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    This will never happen as long as Big Greenland pulls the strings of power in the cartography world.

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  • [+] 42 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    The site has several pretty bad design issues. Aside from not having an image of the thing they're trying to convince you to support, the page is unreadable in dark mode, and uses a laggy mouse cursor that feels like I'm back on Geocities.

    You'd think that, given the nature of this project, that these sorts of optics would be something that team would be more capable of handling.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    You can get this with a few clicks

    Equal Earth is an equal-area (equivalent) projection. Shapes, directions, angles, and distances are distorted and stretched north-south in tropical and mid-latitude areas. Nearer the poles, features are compressed in the north-south direction. Distortion values are symmetric across the equator and the central meridian.

    and there's a paper but the link requires access

    Edit: I never said it was enough.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    i think the best solution (besides globes which are impractical on screens/posters) is having no standard, expose kids in school to 3 or 4 different projections so they learn there's no standard and all protections are as valid and all with drawbacks and advantages.

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  • You've unlocked a weird memory. The Windows CD version of Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego did exactly that. It had that map screen where you'd pick where to chase the bad guy, and they used different map projections. I can find screenshots of the game showcasing a Mercator, Robinson and Goode Homolosine projections. And it's not different editions of the game, it would change between missions.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I don't get it,
    from my memory of geography class in 5th to 8th grade, in elementary, we extensively learned about all kinds of maps, and projections, so teaching kids 3-4 is huge downgrade.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    didn't mean only teach 3-4, just to not regularly use one projection. use a handful so no one instinctively learns to accept one.

    even though you learned a lot of maps, it's likely most maps you used when not learning about different projections were the same.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Most likely, because I would guess that >90% of my up to date (after middle school) use of maps was highly localised to plaxe of interest.
    Which doesn't really show projection type (or brings relevance of it to surface).

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    [–] 25 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's a bit hard to find out where it actually originated from and who's behind it. Judjing by their social media handlers, it's a marketing agency Hello Makeda. Maybe it's just me, but I don't trust marketing agencies to be good judges on geographical projects.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    They are only using the cause to promote their brand social responsibility probably. In any case, the issue with the distorted view of the map that ideologically and politically benefited one side has been known for decades, and most of the countries that were colonies now use the correct one.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Okay... but doesn't this just introduce the issue of flat maps distorting anything to the east or west of center in a different way?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    If it's already distorted, switching to a different distortion that's area-preserving can still be an improvement.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Hm... personally, I think it's very situational, but generally I feel like a more accurate shape is more important than size. I especially feel like it would be important for children who are just learning the map.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Did you read the website? The Mercator projection is not accurate at all.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, I did read the website. Did you? Or is it that you didn't read my response? One of the two has to be true, considering the website is entirely focused on the size of the rest of the world in comparison to Africa, and never once mentions the point I made and you disregarded.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago

    Faithfully projecting a globe onto a flat surface is impossible and all projections have to balance a number of compromises. Mercator retains compass directions and the shapes of land masses but entirely sacrifices relative scale between equatorial regions and polar regions. This makes it great for navigating a 17th century vessel. Other projections strike a different balance, like this one, and sacrifice compass direction and land mass shapes in order to perfectly retain scale. On this map, my little Arctic island looks like someone stepped on it.

    IMO a balanced projection will compromise on all the nice properties a projection can have, and if that isn't acceptable, then get a globe.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Why does the map on the website need that draggable divider when both versions show both types of projection?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    You can’t see the reduced size versions inside the originals? They’re outlined in a different color.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That's what I'm saying, both versions show both outlines.

    The coloring changes, but both show the same information.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Probably a very difficult thing to program? The color changing is a good workaround.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago
    [–] 26 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The Mercator projection was great for navigating oceans, baring remain correct. There are thousands of other map projections that do a better job preserving size, shape, directions, and distances. Any projection will be a tradeoff between these.

    As far as I know the Mercator projection has mostly fallen out of use in education, and I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.

    Don't give the right any ideas. They'll be on about "geometric purity" or other such nonsense. Or anything but Mercator will just be "woke."

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    "The woke liberal left wants to changes maps to make America smaller! Cause they hate America! We will stand against this liberal assault on American sovereinty with the new Trump Map, which shows the true size of America compared to every other country! Order your new Trump Map today for 399.98!"

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    DYMAXION MAP OR GTFO

    EDIT: details


    It has less distortion of relative size of areas, most notably when compared to the Mercator projection; and less distortion of shapes of areas, notably when compared to the Gall–Peters projection. Other compromise projections attempt a similar trade-off.

    More unusually, the Dymaxion map does not have any "right way up". Fuller argued that in the universe there is no "up" and "down", or "north" and "south": only "in" and "out".[9] Gravitational forces of the stars and planets created "in", meaning "towards the gravitational center", and "out", meaning "away from the gravitational center". He attributed the north-up-superior/south-down-inferior presentation of most other world maps to cultural bias.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Each region on a dymaxion map is absolutely fine though, it's just when you put it all together it becomes god awful.

    A butterfly map is a better compromise if you need a world map.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    This is such a garbage take. There is no way to “show our world as it truly is” in two dimensions. I’m all about showing other projects and orientations. Classrooms should have “upside down” maps and Albert maps for example. But we should also teach that each projection has benefits and drawbacks. I was taught that decades ago. Have we stopped?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The way the world's going, the next accepted projection will be depicted on the backs of four elephants atop a turtle.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Its the same take that's applied to any party seen as a "status quo". Your boss, the CEO, police, the state, movies, everything is "projected" to show something that it isn't to subtly manipulate the basis of your decisions.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Africans: You know, 14th century mercator maps are horribly disproportionate over 1/2 the map and are the maps of reference for most online apps, software and textbooks. There are better projections that balance location for actual land mass, we should probably use those.

    lemmy: garbage take.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    There aren’t better maps. Only maps with different tradeoffs. ALL 2d maps of spheres are disproportionate.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    There absolutely are better maps for specific purposes. Or do you think this map would be no better or worse for the purpose of teaching school children?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Oh boy! Are you serious? Let me be more precise, in case. There aren’t actual projections that are better in all cases than the Mercator projection. There are maps that are better in given cases. ALL maps have trade offs. The one you shared, included. It certainly benefits from the humor of pointing out why this is an issue in the first place.

    https://xkcd.com/977/

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    in all cases I think the part tripping you up

    We can do better with teaching, news and infographics than a map that is just designed for ship navigation.

    It's like you'd run over a dozen kids in the trolly problem rather than a geriatric because there's no perfect solution.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    No, there aren't perfect maps. There ARE better maps.

    Mercator's one trick is north is always straight up, so it's great for navigation with a compass. If you're navigating the oceans on a ship, or even using GPS in your car, Mercator is GOAT because you don't have to twist it as your drive to keep north up. Unfortunately, we default to Mercator just about everywhere in places where it really has disadvantages.

    If you're just looking at the map to locate things, or compare countries there are dozens of better maps and our decision to default to mercator for most uses us

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  • [–] [S] -4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    99% of people dont know that there other projections. I dare you to ask people which map projection is their favorite.

    Ideally yes we should stick to standard and make sure everyone knows thay there are many variants and none of them perfectly represent the sphere were on but thats not happening.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    I don’t believe that 99% figure for a second. Unless geography is removed from all curricula worldwide. Even still, that ignorance would not signify what this movement implies. It is a useful map; end of story. If the movement were, “We should increase public knowledge of geography and how projections work,” fine. But it isn’t.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    I kinda like the Winkel Triple or Kavrayskiy VII projections. They look a bit more natural compared to the Mercator.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I'm in the one and only line of work where Mercator makes sense, and even I hate Mercator.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Which line of work is that? You just gonna leave us hanging?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    I like the AuthaGraph map myself, but I’m happy to see an equal area projection being proposed!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Search the comments before promoting this one. Glad I'm not alone.

    I especially like how it centers over the Pacific, the largest geographical feature.

    Other maps make the Pacific look similar in size to the Atlantic when in reality the Pacific ocean is three times the size of the Eurasia landmass.

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