I live in a poorer country where I live with less than 10k a year. It's low but since my country is generally less expensive I can live (and vacation) there with some comfort as long as I don't go crazy. I'm a frugal person so I don't miss out on anything.

My sister and brother-in-law went to live in Europe and they are doing very well. Together they easily make 200k. I'm happy for them.

The problem starts when I visit. The country they live in is far more expensive than mine. It isn't always a problem since I don't have to pay for accommodation and cooking at home is sustainable. The problem is they always want to eat out and do expensive activities (for my standards). And they always leave out the price until it's time to pay since the price is meaningless for them. At first they would chip in until my brother-in-law started pulling "it's your turn to pay now". Imagine being given a dinner tab that is almost as much as your monthly paycheck.

Visiting has become stressing as hell, when I should be relaxing. I tried to talk about it, that eating at home would be more affordable for me, but they quickly go back to old habits. At this point I just decided it's not worth it to visit anymore and blow my year savings in a few days. They're not happy and, as much as I try, I can't make them understand how much money I make. They can't understand you can't buy 100 euro meals everyday when you earn less than a 200 a week.

It's also not much better when they visit our country but at least I know what prices to expect and since I'm home I can find an excuse to ditch them.

Maybe we have just grown appart and that's that.

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[–] 108 points 1 year ago (43 children)

Just gonna point out the obvious - your sister and brother in law are incredibly inconsiderate.

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  • [+] -100 points 1 year ago (43 children)
  • [–] 97 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    They are inconsiderate yes. If I want to do something with friends/family who cannot afford it, I either pay for them or do something different that’s within their price range.

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  • [+] -52 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Are they?

    Yes, they’re.

    Thought experiment: Would you want to hang around with someone who's broke and homeless?

    Yeah and I have many times. I live in Europe and when I visit my father’s country (an Arabian country), I meet people who are poor. I talk to them normally, have fun with them normally and just chill. Sure we don’t go to the ‘more luxury’ places but that isn’t needed to have fun.

    And I mean, the person was very poor. As in when getting something to drink and you get these plastic cups, he saves them for his home.

    But I can tell you, he’s more fun to be around than the ‘more wealthy’ people. He’s generous as well, willing to give his last bit of tea or food etc.

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  • [+] -40 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Freaks like you are why lemmy users have the stereotypes they do. Just so you know

    Lmao I love it when I piss off some lemmoid dipshit so much he goes and downvotes all my comments. You are so incredibly pathetic

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  • [–] 63 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Lol, wtf is this comment? If my family were visiting me, my intention is to be enjoying time with them, not worrying about the "reduced list of activities". I'd do whatever even if they were absolutely penniless.

    So yes, they're inconsiderate. And so are you.

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  • [+] -54 points 1 year ago (7 children)
  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago

    Not sure what has you unable and unwilling to believe that 1) people exist that think differently from you and 2) people can and do have fun without money, but I hope you're at some point able to add some sympathy along with a less insular understanding of others to your world view.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    You are unable to see how anyone is honestly a good person because inside you are made of excrement and fear and can't imagine others are any different.

    Be better. Or just fuck off.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Please ignore him. His one of those joker/dr house/briliant_asshole_stock_character guys who think that being asshole is the sign of intelligence and chose to disguise this assholness as "bitter truths" instead of developing personality. He will grow out of it.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Oh a mind reader, how exciting! Or maybe your omnipresent or something less niche, like a remote viewer?

    This is so cool, OK I've written something on a note here on my desk and I'm also thinking of a specific object. Can you tell me what it is?

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I wouldn't let my brother be broke and homeless.

    If me and my so made 200k while my brother was living on 10k, I'd probably find a way to at least send him an other 10k.

    Complete lack of empathy.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I can manage myself comfortably back home with my own paycheck, that's not the issue

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I'm just highlighting how crazy it is that they are draining your savings while it's a drop in the bucket for them.

    My step mother is from an other country with lower wages. When they come to visit her, they don't pay for anything. She sends them money and stuff also, I just feel like hosting them on her dime is the minimum.

    She also helped her sister get a work visa, I don't get why yours isn't helping you get a higher paying job where they are. Obviously, you might not be interested in that in the first place.

    They are treating you like an acquaintance and not family imo, but I don't have all the facts. I'm not looking to offend you or anything, sorry.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    If my brother was broke and homeless I wouldn't ask him to pay for an expensive dinner.

    If my mother came to visit me I wouldn't take her to a titty bar because she's not really into that.

    It doesn't take much effort to consider the needs of others.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, and I regularly do. I have a friend who I'd say has a similar income disparity, and unfortunately has had issues with being unhoused in the past.

    Someone you can't do anything with that requires spending money in any way

    You can still do stuff, you just pay for the friend if you're inviting them out. I understand if you're also broke, but that's not what we're talking about.

    OP makes it pretty clear that they could afford to pay for them but choose not to. If you say "Well maybe they're not actually that wealthy" then fine, they should pick somewhere less expensive that they can cover.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Yes. Expecting people to go out, your way, for activities only you enjoy, is selfish and entitled.

    Entitled in that it is like asking that person to Venmo you directly to pay for your chosen activity.

    I could spend $30 on one meal. Or. I could eat for a week on $30. Expecting the first option for the sake of your solo personal enjoyment isn’t cool. If that’s what you like to do, that’s great. But expecting other people to overpay for food, so you can have fun, leaving them out food the rest of the week, not ok.

    These guys are mad about him not visiting. And yet.

    They clearly want to hang, but they also want him to pay for their expensive activities.

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  • [+] -21 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    They’re siblings. There is no closer genetic link on the planet. They will reliably grow old together.

    If there’s abuse, sure. If not, surely things can be worked on if not worked out. In addition, maybe it’s the husband with this issue and if the sibs go solo with activities it’s fine.

    Cutting ties with family for good because they can’t go out to eat is quite superficial as reasons go. Either that, or it’s coming from a place of zero conflict resilience and as such needs some therapy.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Yeah thats inconsiderate as hell. I even do this shit with friends. If i invite someone out to get food and they say something like, "nah man i already went out twice this week. Maybe another time." I offer to pay because i want to spend time with them doing something we enjoy. Hell ive even bought video games for friends because weve bonding playing 1 game before, and id like them to be a part of the next game/dlc.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    Sure, I hang out with broke ass bums quite often, I like people for who they are - Not how much they make or inherited.

    We go for walks, go to free museums, visits historical sites and so on. Once in a while we just sit and talk.

    If we go to a cafe and they're low on funds, we'll either order something we both can afford or I offer to treat them.

    I'm happy to share of my fortune as long as I don't feel I'm being exploited. Every so often, when I'm extra fortunate I treat a dear friend in a perpetual unfortunate situation to a free vacation.

    Feels good man

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Thought experiment: Would you want to hang around with someone who's broke and homeless? Someone you can't do anything with that requires spending money in any way, leading to a very reduced list of possible activities?

    Wtf, yes, theres plenty to do with people that cost nothing and spending money is not why i spend time with people. Im not going to shun someone, stranger or not, because theyre not able to afford the same luxuries.

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  • [+] -16 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    why? Are you genuinely not able to do this on your own? Have you never sat with someone and chatted in your own home or theirs just to hang out? Have you never walked somewhere with someone to catch up with them in the moment? Have you never just played an old board game? Or hell, any free game, made up or not with another person? Have you never made up short stories with a group like campers over a campfire? Have you honestly never spent bonding time with another human being without feeling obligated to spend money?

    Im honestly baffled at the idea of avoiding another human being or even cutting ties with a close friend because theyre not as financially well off as yourself. Im pretty angry about this because it hits a bit close to home for me. I know what its like to be that broke ass friend as well as the flip side of the one spotting a broke ass friend. Shit happens. Financial ruin can happen to literally anyone for more reasons than avenues exist to get out of said financial ruin. Speaking of the U.S. specifically, something as small as a minor health issue can force a middle class household from a comfortable savings to filing for bankruptcy.

    If you truely care about someone you find a solution that works for everyone when you want to hang out. Throwing your hands up and saying "oh well, too sad, come back when you have money again" is so...so...shallow, rude, heartless, fucked up, and up your own ass.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    If my brother came to visit me, and I knew he's not very well off, he'd never never ever pay a single penny for anything and I'd do my very best to make sure he had a great holiday. These people are just entitled and inconsiderate and so are you.

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  • [+] -22 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    My wife has a friend from childhood who isn't as well off as we are (and I wouldn't say we're particularly well off). My wife regularly invites her to dine out, and her friend often says she can't afford to. So she offers to pay. Sometime her friend accepts, sometimes not, because who wants to feel like a mooch? Oftentimes, if she can't afford to dine out, my wife will just go visit her instead. Why? Because we don't think money is a defining part of our lives, and spending time together is what friends do.

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    [–] 30 points 1 year ago

    "I make $X per year. I am happy to go out, but you'll have to shout me"?

    Pretty blunt, but maybe being clear about the number would help?

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    Just state what you said here.

    "Hey guys, going out is going to cost me a months wages. Remember where you came from the salaries are still low"

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    It's similar to a situation with my friends, except I am the one with more money and I am considerate about it. (I'm one of the first to finish education and have a regular job)

    If I want to do something expensive with them and they don't consider it worth it, I either pay for them or we don't do it. I never nag them for it because that is just not nice behaviour.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    I can’t imagine being that blind to income disparity! My sibling is not (yet) as well off as me and my partner. When they visit, they doesn’t spend a dime! I often offer to pay for the traveling as well, but they mostly refuse unless it’s peak holiday season. I know I like things that are likely out of their usual budget and i don’t want our visits to turn into an economical burden. When other friends visit, I also try to be mindful about it.

    When I was a student on a student budget, the deal was always that who travels paid for the travel costs, who hosts paid for everything else.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Honestly I think you should just be kind of straightforward with them and let them know that at home you were doing fine but once you are over there you're basically going through a Year's worth of savings eating out like that. I would say to be clear with them on that point and as long as you've gotten that through then that's what you needed to get through to them.

    Maybe they will have time to think about it and realize the situation they are putting you in or maybe they won't. Either way you shouldn't need to overspend to be around them.

    If they realize what's going on and change then good, you will be able to continue to see them and have them in your life, but if not I think it's probably best to just keep the relationship long distance with them.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    How are you able to visit Europe on that low of an income?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    They have grown with more money and their view towards lower classes has been blinded.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    They haven't. They have grown up in the same country as I, they just moved about 10 years ago.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    "Blinded" may be a little strong, but they've forgotten what it's like to live with significantly less. It happens - I'm sure people who went to school and then found a decent job and improved their situation, ten years on, probably have different financial reflexes than they did just a few years prior.

    I think an honest and direct conversation is warranted. Explain it just as you have here, and tell them that you love to come visit them but simply don't have the means to do the same activities and dine at the same places as they're used to. Maybe offer to cook for them in their own home - who wouldn't love a home cooked meal from their home country? A 20x income disparity is significant, and unfortunately for you the decision may be that you have to visit less frequently if you need to save up for activities.

    I'm in relationships with people that have much more and people that have much less financially, and I work to be mindful of it. If I'm going somewhere to eat with someone who isn't as financially stable I insist on paying, and likewise I fight a little (but not too much) when someone insists on paying for me.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I understand it. I have emigrated like your sister, only that my relationship with money is not the standard. Given the terrible inflation, I was used to live without any savings... I was making 500 USD per month, and spending everything. Some (poorer) friends perhaps only liked me because of that. I think it's not like I was buying their love or anything.. just didn't mind. Tried to be quite stoic/ anarchist about it. But then, that's me.

    The standard (capitalist) way to go about money is that it's yours as your soul. It's an essence. You don't share. Unless when you do a gift (e.g. birthdays)... And, even couples split tabs. Also, the standard (patriarchal) way about money is that Males pay. So your brother in law is just spitting the misery cassette.

    We (commentators) can blame all we want on this people. It won't make OP feel any better.

    OP: I think that a difficult talk with your sister and/or brother in law is due. Perhaps even a letter (you can also ask someone else to proofread/ help). Tell them how you feel... That way, they'll know why you are not visiting so often. If they are really shitty about it and get mad or anything else other than comprehend, then that's onto them.

    PS. Do they have kids? I am an uncle, and my niece is in another country. But thankfully, since I emigrated, I have a not-so-dissimilar salary to my brother so I can plan holidays together... I'm actually looking forward to that. It will be our first.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So, if I'm poor, I'm not allowed to have friends?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    That's not what I read. And OP statement is a fact, peoples living standards change based on their income. This is also true for people that spend more time studying and/or start having more hobbies than their initial circle. You eventually make new friends that have your new lifestyle.

    P.s.: I still get together with most of my good childhood friends, but definitely not the same amount that used to be. Sometimes they only want to do and talk about things that I'm no longer interested in and the other way around.

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