According to a motion the Electronic Frontier Foundation filed in Sacramento Superior Court last week, Nguyen and Decker are only two of more than 33,000 Sacramento-area people who have been flagged to the sheriff’s department by the Sacramento Municipal Utility District, the electricity provider for the region. SMUD called the customers out for using what it and department investigators said were suspiciously high amounts of electricity indicative of illegal cannabis farming.

all 4 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Utility company execs need to be hunted like dogs electrical substations and weather radar.

  • source
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    uhhhh... hasnt this been happening for like 40 years? i assumed it was sop for utilities decades ago

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    As an old person, I recall this same story making the headlines in the late 1970's. Next headline will include advice on how not to raise suspicion. I assume solar and wind are the method that is replacing diesel generators.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    Right?

    And why many have gone to significant lengths over the years.

    LED changed that so much the power utility probably has to use different tools to find them.

    Besides, power company stats are so bad they say I use 2x-3x the power of "comparable homes" in a 7 mile radius.

    Holy cow powerman, that's the entire metro region.

    Oh, and "comparable homes" are upwards of 50% larger (or smaller).

    Im surprised they get the bill right with stats like that.

  • source
  • parent
  • 57 comments in c/privacy@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    This sucks because it’s an invasion of privacy. But it also sucks because SMUD is an otherwise great utility.

  • source
  • [–] 53 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    why do they even care? they get to sell more power

  • source
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Depending on the amount of power they are generating, they could be hitting the limit of production at peak times. The grow houses could also be exceeding the rated capacity of residential equipment.

    Around here the power companies will tell you to set your thermostat higher to reduce load on the grid during heat waves. (Or just change it themselves if you opted for a reduced rate to allow them to do so)

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • Or just change it themselves if you opted for a reduced rate to allow them to do so

    Reminds me of the snowpocalypse in Texas a few years ago, where the entire power grid failed because billionaires and office buildings refused to turn off the lights. It was like a solid week of hard freeze, and the “rolling” blackouts were pretty consistently only blacked out in poorer areas. People were shitting in grocery bags, because their toilets were frozen solid after what was essentially an entire week of no power in subzero temps. It turned into an even bigger scandal when people’s power finally turned back on for a few minutes, and they realized their thermostats were remotely being set to like 50 degrees. All while office buildings and the rich parts of town were all lit up like Christmas trees.

    IIRC that’s also where the Fled Cruz memes came from, because in the middle of the ice storm, Ted Cruz (state senator) tried to flee to Cancun. And all of his constituents immediately started talking about how he was the reason the power grid was unprepared… I think he pushed to cut/deregulate the grid’s winterization? But then they reelected him, because nothing pairs better than “conservatives” and “voting against your own self-interests.”

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    All while everyone is racing to build new nuclear plants (microsoft fucking bought their own), Trump dumping money into the pockets of his handlers in oil, gas and fucking coal companies. Read the linkedin (gag) article announcing the new "AI EP" from yesterday--its a literal who's who of shitty companies CEOs cheering the bill they paid for cheering "responsible AI" which references "non-ideological bias".

    All that is to say, the power companies don't care--they aren't shutting off businesses. The dystopian future when hospitals are on generators running off (of course) gas because the coal plants can't generate enough AI deep fake videos of voter fraud in California is upon us. The senior citizen on oxygen's power is being shut off before Grok's so they can make sure the accurate information about the 4th Reich is generated.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    When I worked for a power utility, I got called out to inspect a boiling (yes, boiling) power transformer. A weed operation in a house served by the transformer was using so much power for such a long time in the heat of summer that the transformer was about to explode if we didn't disconnect their power.

    It turns out the grow op had illegally bypassed the meter too, so they weren't paying for the power. Just goes to show there are valid reasons for doing this, even if it's a bit excessive to report them to law enforcement directly.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Read a horrific story once about one of those falling on a lineman. Like a modern-day version of boiling oil during a medieval siege. It's pretty fucking crazy we just suspend them overhead all over the place in the right-of-way where trucks and shit can hit them.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You'd think with modern LED setups this would be null and void. It's quite wild to see a lot of older schooled growers still using sodium lamps and other high heat, high energy lighting fixtures and getting caught, wasting energy, etc.

    Now days modern LEDs are multi fold more efficient. You'd also think that if someone was doing bad deeds illegally they'd be more inclined to stick to a more strict standard.

    I guess criminals never did have much standards.. Organized crime excluded and even then some organized crime syndicates aren't fully organized in a manner that detection is impossible. They just aren't a nuisance enough to warrant the big league agencies. Local LEOs are definitely picking up new tech and evolving faster as the money rolls in these last 10 years.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Lighting is only part of the issue. In order to get a consistently reproducible product, growers also try to maintain a consistent temperature, humidity, and airflow. All of which quickly adds up to massive energy consumption. Weed grows best in mild humidity and pretty high temperatures. Which means that in the winter, they end up heating and humidifying the entire house to what would essentially be tropical levels. And in the summer, they’re worried about consistent airflow and dehumidifying. And dehumidifiers eat a lot of energy.

    There’s a reason cops use thermal imaging to find grow houses. Under infrared, they light up like a beacon. Cops can just fly a helicopter around town, and flag any houses that look abnormal:

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I know. And they do it now days with no warrants in the US which is supposed to be illegal. All other points are very valid.

    But generally lights don't equate heat with modern LEDs is all I was saying unlike old halogen or sodium bulbs.

    A lot of growers use basements which obscures a lot of thermal imaging. Including under ground shipping containers, cellars, and more. But your example images are spot on from real people that got caught. I still think profiling should be illegal and there should be some strict laws in place to catch criminals the right ways but rant for another time.

    Most modern people don't have access to all that advanced tech, don't care, feel it should be legal, poor, average. Not some criminal enterprise. Thanks for uploading the photos though for others to see.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 39 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Using more electricity than average? Get automatically raided!

    Yeah sounds pretty fucked up to me.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    not quite -- it's if you're using 3.5x more electricity than average. Still seems fucked up from my lemmy-eye view though.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Police raided my house because our electricity usage was 4x my neighbors.

    They 'surveilled' my house and then got a search warrant which said they saw Metal Halide lights, which, in this pig's expert opinion are only used for growing Marijuana (they're used for literally everything that grows under the sun). Tinfoil on the window, which "is used in marijuana grow operations" and because I had a window AC unit "used in grow houses to cool the lights".

    When they showed up despite not there obviously not being a grow operations, they destroyed my house, punched holes in the walls, unseated my toilets, pulled my grandfather's military burial flag out of it's case and unfolded it. Then left it on the ground, stepping on it as they searched. They also stole $125 in cash off of my desk.

    They found a few saltwater tanks full of corals and 4 people with gaming PCs. There was no money to cover the damages, no apology, just 'well you guys are free to go' and then they left.

    It doesn't matter to them if their flawed methods have false positives, they're protected from any liability personal or otherwise.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Remember kids: if you see something, no you didn’t. Move along and mind your business.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Domestic abusers appreciate your support.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago
    • sweats while nervously trying not to look at his home lab server rack in the office closet *
  • source
  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Ha ha I'm in danger!

    I have a hydroponics setup that would make pot growers jealous but I grow chili's and tomatoes in it.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    So we get this tip, chief, water and power bills, big trash bags, the usual. We go in hot break the door kill the dog all by the book, and you wont believe what we see:

    Santorini, Tiny Tim, Tomaccio, Big Beef, well lit in these pristine pots like its fucking Breaking Bad. All the while the owner's blabbering how it's a mistake and this isn't for sale, we've all heard it.

    So I put them down and go check the cellar just in case, and this is where the worst of it was. H1776-2023, the pesticide resistant variation, straight from Monsanto labs.

    Naturally the sick bastard had an accident on the way, let the coroner do the booking.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    My gaming desktop and basement server uses enough power to be flagged as a grow. Fuck these guys gonna hassle me for being a geek.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Wanna know the difference between growing weed indoors and growing anything else indoors?

    Nothing. Fuck off. I’m growing extremely hot peppers indoors with my kilowatts of LEDs.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Yeah, despite the wording, I suspect they are looking at the patterns of use with smart meters rather than just "high amounts?" Grow op houses would be easy to see, as they only use power when the lights are on, flat usage, because no one is actually living there. Do you run lights 24x7 with indoor growing? idk. The trouble is, any system like this will catch a few, then they will relax the constraints to "catch more" and boom, now you have false positives. The criminals will also figure it out and mask their usage better by cycling banks of lighting, using batteries, parking some EVs in the driveway or whatever. That cat-and-mouse game will just see increasing privacy invasion and more false positives.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    It’s definitely the patterns. What I’m saying is the patterns are not any different for cannabis versus any other photoperiod plant. Cannabis isn’t the only thing you veg under 18/6 and flower under 12/12 light cycles. It’s not illegal to grow plants indoors and if I spend 5kW doing it every day that’s nobody’s business but my own. I’ll use my joules however I feel.

    That said, it seems like the way to defeat this type of analysis would be to invest in batteries so you can always have a constant 24h drain rather than 5kW turning on every day at the same time for 18 or 12 hours.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yeah, batteries or cycling different banks at different overlapping intervals so the the household draw averages out to a more reasonable usage pattern. Easy for the criminals to defeat, resulting in false-positives in their detection scheme.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Of course modern criminals are smart. /s

    The good ones are. The poor ones suffer the consequences of their own actions. With modern tech crime advances faster under no regulations than laws can. The problem is uneducated criminals lol

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    You seem to know a lot about we..., I mean, electricity. Tell us more 🤣🤣

    By the way, I'm just joking, as these companies are just getting more dystopian by the second.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Sounds like time to run either a food grow op or Folding@Home on a schedule to create false alarms

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Are they fucking stupid? If your customer is in jail then they wont be giving you money for your product.

    I keep several exotic pets and plants none of which are pot but even if it was mind your fucking business. it is none of your concern why my power bill is stupidly high.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I thought the LEDs use way less power than the grow lights of old, I guess not!

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's still the main power drain in a grow room. I use custom LED strips designed to minimize power waste and for 8 plant pots i have to use at least 250W of power just on the lighting.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    I have a number of indoor grow systems that have LED lights on a timer. I guess now I need to start worrying about the police raiding my house to seize my crop of lettuce and tomatoes.

  • source
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Is growing illegal in California? Even in Connecticut which has rather draconian legal cannabis laws you're allowed to grow for personal use

  • source
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Who the hell grows indoors in California? It has the best climate for outdoor cannabis

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This is a drawback to municipal power supply. Not that private companies all over the US haven't also ratted out growers, but PG&E would fuckin never lol.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Ideally, set up a battery and inverter system in your house, and turn the charging rate up or down depending on what other electric devices you are using at any given moment. Idea is to keep your power consumption exactly the same regardless of what you are doing at home. That way you give no information to the power company.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The average usage in California is 756 kWh per month* and police are called at 2700 kWh per month. I'm sure the energy company are wondering why the house is using 3 months energy in one month. It used to be 7000 kWh per month so it was probibly garinteed that rather they where in the wrong service (bussness and commercial rate) or its a grow house.

    As mentioned elsewhere your house and the grid is not rated for this level of energy for long periods of time and ether the company cuts you off or your house burns down.

    *https://www.solarinsure.com/average-cost-of-electricity-per-month-in-california

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    As mentioned elsewhere your house and the grid is not rated for this level of energy for long periods of time and ether the company cuts you off or your house burns down.

    A typical main breaker in the US is rated for 150 amps, general rule of thumb is breakers are safe for 80% of their rated load continuously. At 110v, that 150 amp panel is good for 13.2kw. Over a 30 day month that's 9,500 kwh.

    Anyone using 7000kwh a month is likely on a 200 or 300 amp panel. By the same math above that's 12,700kwh and 19,000kwh.

    7,000kwh is well within safe usage of a normal home under a uniform load, definitely so with a 2 or 300amp main breaker.

    Ffs an electric car with a home fast charger pulls nearly 12kw on a single outlet. That plus a fridge and AC running in the house would be too much for a standard 150amp service.

  • source
  • parent
  • 11 comments in c/privacy@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    In the Trump dictatorship, nothing is illegal except when he can use it against his enemies.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    I forgot what documentary I saw, but electronic companies can also decipher what your computer is doing, and eavesdrop your residence by manipulating the wattages sent. Which in why security experts rec. PSU banking, Faraday caging, and noise filtering.

    can't seem to find the video, but some sources: https://www.vice.com/en/article/your-smart-electricity-meter-can-easily-spy-on-you-court-ruling-warns/ https://smartgridawareness.org/privacy-and-data-security/how-smart-meters-invade-individual-privacy/ https://www.energy.gov/gc/articles/department-energy-data-access-and-privacy-issues-related-smart-grid-technologies

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I don't know enough about this topic to judge what is / isn't wrong with this comment. Could someone who is downvoting also reply to explain what's wrong?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    The articles relate to tracking behaviour (IE watching TV, playing video games, cooking, showering, sleeping, out & about), not deciphering what your computer is doing.
    Maybe they can tell if you are just browsing the internet, or if you are playing video games. But you could just as easily be training AI models, rendering some animations, 3d modelling or mining buttcoin.
    The articles allude to "knowing it's a computer being used" because the noise of it's PSU is different than lightbulbs or fridges.

    Data centers use UPS battery banks to provide persistent power during a power outage to cover the gap before backup generators start up.
    Data centers use power smoothing systems to protect wiring and switch gear, as well as fixing the Power Factor - which will drastically reduce their electricity bill.

    The power required to generate 00001111 Vs 11110000 is the same from an outside perspective. 4 bits on, 4 bits off. And computers have a word size of 64 bits. That's a lot of permutations that a miniscule ripple in current might indicate.
    And all ICs in a computer will have local decoupling caps (because the same power noise that "can be decoded by a power meter" interferes with the ICs, so it is filtered).
    And the the SMPS will have some chonky smoothing caps, and the MOSFETs chopping that at 100kHz or whatever. Lots of smoothing, and lots of more significant noise sources.
    Nothing upstream of the PSU is going to be able to read what's going on inside a PC, other than "it's drawing a few watts more".

    Now, maybe there are security minded companies that take things to the extreme.
    Having a central DC power system that powers 100s of servers has the benefit of mixing all that potential noise together into an even more incomprehensible noise.
    So, I can see some companies spending tens of thousands more just in case someone manages to break physics. Because 20k on an install could save millions later.
    But if they are paying that much attention to the data security of power, I hope it's an air gapped system.
    Or they've been sold some snake oil.

    Seriously, noise on the power is not a data security issue.
    It is a privacy issue if power companies are tracking it that closely, because they can model your behaviour.
    Which is what the articles are talking about

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Thanks! That is helpful, I appreciate it

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Just a side note - while the original comment wasn't directly speaking about this, and something like this requires way more precise instruments amd can't be done just from your total energy consumption, it is kind of possible to in theory decode/steal data from your PC based on it's pwer consumption, such as stealing private cryptography keys.

    It's mostly theoretical and very specific attack, but I find things like that super cool so I kist wanted to share them. The whole area of Side channel attacks is cool.

  • source
  • parent
  • 2 comments in c/pulse_of_truth@infosec.pub view that post
    [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    This would be a great marketting opportunity for a Solar/Battery company.

    Be green while growing the green, without being Narced on by the power company.

    Add some fish and you have a Permaculture setup!

  • source
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    This was happening in the UK for a while until like the sixth time they raided a teenage crypto-kiddie

  • source