I’ve been doing the OverTheWire Bandit over the past couple of days and have become stuck on the earlier levels. I deem this very embarrassing as this is supposed to be an “easy” and “recommended for beginners” type of puzzle that requires hands on understanding of the Linux terminal. But I have been using Linux for 9 months now, I wouldn’t do the most complicated things (other than break my whole os) only the things required to make my overall user experience somewhat enjoyable. Now this makes me very sad to come to the conclusions that I may be below the average Linux beginner which I didn’t know was possible according to my knowledge. I am only asking of tips and tricks to these puzzles and maybe to positive reinforcement to make feel better about myself. Now I will not tolerate spoilers as in the official rules of OverTheWire clearly states, and I hope you will follow this rule for the better sake of my learning and understanding of the Linux terminal ( and for the sake of the game itself)

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[–] 49 points 1 day ago

He is right to be honest. I had to search for 3 days to find linux.exe.

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  • [–] 65 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    I am sick and tired of waiting for linux.exe /s

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  • [–] 32 points 1 day ago (5 children)

    He's got a point. As someone who's familiar and uses GitHub all the time, there are moments of frustration where it's like... "just let me be braindead and have it work"

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  • [–] 30 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    Especially github projects with instructions like:

    On Debian/Ubuntu, install from my PPA

    sudo add-apt-repository ppa:totally/well-maintained
    

    or on Hannah Montana Linux, build with

    python2 mk-dependencies.py
    fartify-next build --forceit 
    
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  • [–] 23 points 1 day ago

    All these comments about git, but OP is presumably asking about this: https://overthewire.org/wargames/bandit/

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  • You can find linux.exe easily on limewire or gnutella, should be just a few megabytes in size, enjoy!

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  • [–] [S] 13 points 1 day ago

    I’m sorry if the image confuses you guys, I just found it funny and it was that only Linux related image I had. 😅

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  • [–] 10 points 1 day ago

    To be fair. It do be like that sometimes.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child)

    Funny calling a nerd stupid. Probably doesn't even know what github is.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 day ago

    OverTheWire bandit is really fun. I was able to get up to the level with the encryption stuff. The encryption stuff confused the hell out of me.

    Be sure to use the manuals and the wiki entries about the relevant commands listed on the website. You need to use some comprehensive reading and crack your brain. It is quite literally a puzzle. Not much I can say to you to help you without spoiling the puzzle.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago

    This is so fucking hilarious

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  • [–] 24 points 1 day ago

    The big secret no one tells you about about bandit, is you have to read the fucking manual. No really. RTFM. Each level tells you what commands you may need. The manual pages for those commands tell you the context and syntax of their usage.

    That is literally the only tip/trick. Read the instructions.

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  • [–] 6 points 22 hours ago

    "man i have my little app, but i dont distribute on any of the stores, dont provide install files or compiling tutorial. i have no idea why noone uses my awsome application."

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago

    what exactly are you stuck on then?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I'm surprised though, to find out it's only PR #1349. With the repository public for all these years, I expect more idiots than 1349. 😏

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago

    OT, it completely checks out that danemadsen's github history is filled with "AI" development.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago*

    It's called WSL. You can install it straight throught the Microsoft Appstore, whatever it's called.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago

    Actually websites like Softonic would be neat for this kind of stuff.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 days ago (28 children)

    I dunno about what game OP is referring to, but I agree that GitHub is too confusing. Is the normal way to access GitHub via terminal? I was raised on exe's and dmg's, and I must've missed the class about git.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 days ago* (4 children)

    when they package that code up in an exe, it's usually on the small releases section on the right.

    yeah it's not terribly friendly, but it also isn't supposed to be a download site.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

    But unfortunately a fair amount of smaller projects do use it as a download site.

    And I get it, not everyone has the time or budget to make a website for their own little passion projects, and it's probably not even worth it for a lot of them given their limited audience. I'm not gonna say that every little tool to make my computer do some goofy thing that only me and about 6 other people care about (and 3 of those people are the people actively developing it) needs to have its own website.

    But I feel like a lot of projects could benefit from throwing a "If you're not here for the code and just want to download and run the program click here" message at the top of their page

    Also, this is neither here nor there, but as something of a Linux noob, I'd kind of appreciate it Linux installation instructions included some brief explanations of what the commands they're having you type into the terminal do. Sure, sometimes it's as simple as "sudo apt-get install program" and you're off to the races, but other times it's a multi-step process of transcribing magic spells into the scary black & white hacker window.

    And as someone who's decent with computers and trying to learn more I don't mind doing a little research to figure out what I'm actually doing. But for your average computer user who wants things to just work, I think that's a bigger stumbling block to people giving Linux a fair shake than a lot of programmer types think it is. A tiny bit of handholding can go a long way.

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  • Installation instructions are often terse with a bunch of assumed knowledge left implicit.

    It becomes a sidequest needing an investment of an unknown amount of time with no guarantee that you'll have a working program at the end of it.

    Man pages can be just as bad, like the developer was ticking a box.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago*

    yeah i mostly agree. it's not that much more work to make it available directly in the software store through flatpak. this thing of developers making their software and not even bothering to even build it on linux must end right now.

    that said windows users will still get their .exe files from github. sorry, no better alternatives for them.

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  • I generally agree with you that the projects could be more accessible. I also believe that these projects exist to do one thing, which is create a solution to a problem and share it with others.

    As for your learning and explaining what the various bash command chains do: Explaining bash commands is actually one of the few things I would say AI (especially local/self-hosted LLMs) are REALLY good at.

    There are lots of obscure options for every bash command, and having used a lot of LLMs for work, most LLM models can use and explain these bash commands, piping, and exit conditions quite well.

    Not everyone wants to use AI, which I can understand. But, if you’re going to use AI, use it to break down more complex things and explain them to you.

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  • [–] 44 points 2 days ago* (22 children)

    it is a website for code, built for code tools. this is a bit like walking into a barn full of wheat and asking where the sandwiches are; there may incidentally be one in there, but if there is it's almost certainly not meant for you.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Yeah, to an extent. Many devs leave release handling solely to github without a project website. A lot of these are dev focused tools, but some are projects are just too small to warrant packaging and a website and all that.

    In your analogy, I'd liken it to a farmers market or farm stand.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago

    yeah, if there was a sign saying "sandwiches sold here, please come in" (or, without the analogy, a readme with an "installation" section) then it's different. point being, it's not the original intent.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 days ago (19 children)

    it is a website for code, built for code tools.

    Tell that to the people who distribute their applications exclusively through GH. I can't count how many times I've been told "just DL it from GH" and I have to reverse engineer the site to find the download link. I have it figured out now but it certainly could be a lot easier. And while I don't agree with the way it was presented, I empathize with the thought process.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    I have not worked it out, too many times a search ended at GitHub; it’s like the great filter for me, I cannot for the life of me get past it.

    Similar/ related Linux instructions are often the same. Just do the gobbiligoo and write magicmumbojumbo in the wolooolooo. It is often just presumed that you know all terms, and that you automatically skip the first 5 steps which are soooo obvious.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    I have not worked it out

    The secret is you have to scroll all the way to the bottom and click the tiny link that says "releases". Or sometimes click the ellipses (...) at the top of the page and find it there. From there you scroll to the bottom of the latest release and expand the section that says "assets". Then you typically need to understand package formats and choose the correct one for your device.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child)

    Oh. my. god. That just triggered me and I'm a dev. WHY THE FUCK ARE RELEASES AT THE BOTTOM ON MOBILE??!

    Like on the desktop it's right there in the right panel. Then I open the mobile interface for some APK and for the life of me I can't fucking find it. So I enable desktop mode and there it is. Jesus fucking Christ I hate it. It took me months to find it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago*

    Honestly, anyone distributing compiled code from GitHub should at a minimum set up a basic GitHub page with a link to it at the top of the readme... Probably wouldn't be very hard to set up a CI workflow to automatically update the page with the latest releases and a link to the relevant release page for details.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (5 children)

    i mean it's a one time thing to learn, like with sourceforge, moddb, apt, etc etc

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    Sure, now try learning any of those things with no instructions.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (3 children)

    if they direct you to github for downloads, and don't point you directly to the releases page, and don't have anything about installation in the readme, then that's on them. personally, i'd click "releases" anyway because that sounds like a word associated with products.

    like, try downloading something from the steam workshop with no prior exposure to steam (eg, from the web browser and not logged in) then get back to me.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    that's on them

    Sure. How does that help me?

    personally, i'd click "releases" anyway

    If you knew what you were looking for, sure. On every other website on the face of the planet, that button says "download".

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago

    Except you aren't "downloading" the .exe as this thread suggests.

    You're right, it is more complex, "difficult" and fiddly than downloading an exe - presumably because you are trying to do something more complex than your walled garden software allows.

    I don't do the repairs on my car myself, even though I probably could and most of them are probably simple and don't require specialist tools. Same for free software to do specialist functions.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (6 children)

    You mean you have to read the "Install Instructions" section?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (5 children)

    No, those usually don't exist. It's just assumed that you know how to do it already.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    So... You couldn't figure it out? I don't really get it. Are you saying it's too difficult?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

    Everyone is saying that it's more complicated than it needs to be.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 day ago (5 children)

    Are people just not exploring websites anymore? Surely my household can't be the only one where if you don't know how to use a website or find something on it, we actively explore it. (Dodgy sites notwithstanding, I mean safe and legit sites). Am I strange that if I can't work out how to use something, I look for a manual. And barring that, I try different things, trouble shoot using logic, etc. to work it out for myself.... I'm not a programmer but I can't say as I had a great deal of difficulty working out how to use Github (as a consumer) for myself...

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago* (4 children)

    I'm good at figuring things out. I don't know how to get code on GitHub even though I've lazily tried multiple times.

    I get frustrated because I'm looking for something that I feel should be easily found (code on GitHub). Instead I'm given a puzzle I have to navigate through. I thought getting the code off GitHub was going to be the easiest part of my project. Nope.

    Everyone wants your data so apps and websites are intentionally designed to keep people moving through them. I'm not saying that is what GitHub is doing here but it's the reason I have little curiosity to explore apps and websites anymore. It's flawed by design. Not because the opportunity to improve the end user experience hasn't occurred yet.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Install git. Then type git clone <url>

    For example to download miniaudio you would type

    git clone https://github.com/mackron/miniaudio.git

    And it downloads all the code for you. There's a button on github that says "code" if you click it you can copy the URL for cloning.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    You haven't said if you want to work on the code or only want to run the software, but if it's the latter you don't actually need the code usually. There's usually a Releases page (I believe it can be found on the right side bar) that will have the software built and packaged for different systems. So unless it's not available for your OS and you need to build it yourself (which can be a bit of a pain to figure out) you don't need the code.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago

    Yeah! And let me buy it at the store on CD!

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago

    "smelly"??

    I think you're projecting

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago
    [–] 2 points 15 hours ago

    I just thinked/laughed about this picture in my mind few days ago. Great to see it again.

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  • [–] 2 points 15 hours ago

    Man I loved OTW! I need to get back into it.

    I rarely used Google bc I apparently have a masochistic desire to make things harder than they need to be, I mostly just looked at all the man pages (type man command name here) and it usually brings up a helpful manual that has it's own controls to navigate with. Helpful to know that 'Q' is the key you want to press to leave the man page and go back to the terminal. It took me a few tries to learn that. But seriously, I had fun just getting lost in all the features and options in each page for awhile even if it wasn't the fastest way to complete the levels. Man pages are mostly dry and sometimes funny but they will get you through a lot of Bandit without using google IMO.

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  • [–] 1 point 22 hours ago

    Well, I mean, wubi was a thing for a while and that was an exe

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (9 children)

    github is a platform for developers not for normies. So normies shouldn't be using it (doesn't matter if you use linux or not)

    Also this shit is fake.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 day ago (8 children)

    github may be intended for developers, but it is used as a software repository for normies as well. a lot of software is only hosted on github with no normie way to access it. normies should still be allowed to use software

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (7 children)

    When we're talking about free software someone makes in their free time, I don't think the normie is entitled to anything. I made a thing and gave it away to the world, figure it out.

    That being said less friction is better, so I really appreciate when the dev gives simple to consume packages.

    This dynamic changes when money starts getting exchanged, either explicitly by buying or implicitly by donating, the sponsor is entitled to have their needs acknowledged and addressed.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    This isn't a discussion about "entitlement", but ease of use.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    A user is not owed "ease of use" for every random thing on GitHub. It's appreciated, but unless something is given in return for the software, it's on the user to figure their shit out.

    I'm not against helping users. If they're civil, they should be addressed. But anyone coming with anger and entitlement, like the original meme, should absolutely be shown the door.

    At the end of the day, GitHub is a developer platform. And release distribution is a feature to make the developer experience better. Take it or leave it.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 day ago*

    A user is not owed "ease of use"

    I already covered this in the comment you just replied to.

    At the end of the day, GitHub is a developer platform

    This was also covered several comments up. If you don't have anything new to present, I'll bid you good day.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    less friction is better

    I strongly but respectfully disagree.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)
  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Well, I admit I'm being a little facetious.

    But that fact that "normie" users have zero tolerance for friction is a real problem. If you can't do anything that's not spoonfed to you, then you are prey for corporate abuse. The only people who really care about minimizing friction are the people trying to exploit "normies" for profit. Most open-source software is built to solve problems that are more important than "how can we exploit the general population a little more effectively?"

    I don't think the solution here is for every single open-source project to devote a large percentage of their time and resources to eliminating friction. That would be a huge drain on teams that have more important things to do.

    Rather, the solution is for users to be willing to spend a few seconds here and there to understand what they're doing and what their options are.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago

    I think there is some pride and value in setting things up in a way that reduces friction.

    I myself am of a similar opinion tho. Someone maintaining a thing as a hobby doesn't owe me shit. If it's too tedious to figure out, I'll move to another solution. It's really nice, when I get the option of a consumable bundle. But if they can't, don't like or simply don't care for ease of consumption — tough luck for me I guess.


    tl;dr

    Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth

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  • [–] 0 points 5 hours ago

    I think a lot of people don't read anymore.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago

    Its hard to download because its just an AI slop project.

    /s... mostly

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