Across the coalition, some supporters who once viewed Trump as MAGA’s greatest asset are beginning to question whether he’s become its biggest liability.

The midterm losses amounted to more than a repudiation of Trump. They were a referendum on the political and cultural movement he built. A defining force in American politics that began as a campaign slogan during Trump’s 2016 presidential run now faces a potentially existential reckoning after voters disillusioned with soaring fuel prices, the Iran war and Washington corruption delivered Democrats decisive congressional majorities.

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[–] 41 points 3 days ago (25 children)

Remember when the Republicans thought they were so clever by making most of the Medicare, Medicaid, and food stamp cuts go into effect AFTER midterms. ?

Hoping people wouldn't realize how dirty they did them until it was too late.

I remember.

They knew. They knew then that their policies were going to be very unpopular with everyone. But they thought they could lie their way out of reality and hide the worst of it until after midterms.

But it didn't matter how many times trump said inflation was down. Groceries cheaper than ever. Gas the lowest it's ever been. Employment up.

Even most Republican people noticed he was lying about a few of those things. But many still didn't blame Republicans per se. Just Trump's war. Just that. Only that. So some still voted Republican.

Only die hard magas stayed on his side completely and refused to acknowledge any wrong doing by any Republican. ~ 30%

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  • [–] 13 points 3 days ago (24 children)

    I really do worry about the firmness of that 30%, I think if liberal democracy wants to stay a 'thing' it will have to find a way to massage that number significantly lower.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 days ago (23 children)

    So true. We need to handle conservatives as the deadly infestation they actually are.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 days ago (8 children)

    I know that's your whole thing and we mostly agree in the broad strokes, but what keeps me up at night is the possibility that humans are generally just... 30% bastards? I still don't think it's true, but the possibility chills my blood because that's not a solvable problem within my ethical boundaries.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 days ago (7 children)

    theauthoritarians.org

    Bob Altemeyer started his psychology career studying regular everyday nazis while everyone else studied the nazi leadership. 30% of any given population is highly authoritarian, and this will always be true.

    However, that doesn't mean authoritarians are automatically nazis. They're just people who:

    1. have a high degree of submission to established authority
    2. are highly aggressive in defense of that authority
    3. have a high degree of conventionalism

    None of this is inherently nazi-adjacent. If the established authority is focused on a better world, authoritarians will be the first to pick up litter, help their neighbors, etc. because not doing so is "wrong". It's not that they're bastards, it's that they are easily controlled by people who score high on Social Dominance traits, and those people tend to be bastards. And are much rarer.

    I actually wonder where the dude you're responding to would land on the authoritarianism scale. I suspect it is much higher than they think.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

    I'll respond to both of you here.

    I have considered myself anti-authoritarian since I was a teenager in the 80's. I was a "punk" who associated with a group of people who called ourselves SHARPS or Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice. I cringe at how silly that sounds now as I type that out, but I think it illustrates where our hearts were at the time. We absolutely did not think it was silly at the time. It was a violent response to a problem we had with racist skinheads being absolutely everywhere we wanted to be. I think this ideology saved us from a much worse fate, because we really did turn the tables over time by becoming a very violent problem for the racist skinheads.

    I am from the south, just outside of a major city, but this ideology/response actually started somewhere up north and just spread overnight to us through punk shows (where racist skinheads were kicking everyone's asses). My best friend at the time had his leg broken when he was attacked by skinheads outside of a club downtown one night, and that was the beginning for us. We were 14 when that happened, lying about our age and begging for rides from friends to get into punk shows. My group of friends would have become violent in response to the racists whether the SHARP ideology became available to us or not. Sadly, a couple of those friends grew up to become conservatives somehow. They are fucking dead to me and it hurts my soul to say that. But back then, we just absolutely overwhelmed the racists at shows and at school. We picked on them and bullied them every chance we could and when we could, we jumped them just as they jumped us before. It got to a point where they stopped showing up to punk shows entirely by the early 90's

    Anyway, that's a lot of words to say I have always despised fascist bullies and I admit I may have a bit of a warped sense of what constitutes a "nazi". I have given this so much thought that I may be guilty of overthinking it all. But, in 2020, watching my conservative colleagues become complete dickbags, I felt all that rage coming back. That is when I think I began to see all conservatives as nazis. It seems extremely obvious to me that nazism in the 40's was just unchecked conservatism. Social distancing led me to retire from my career to just get away from conservatives. And things have only gotten worse with conservatism/nazism since then.

    I have more to say, but this is already a really longwinded comment.

    Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Fuck conservatives. They are all nazis in my book.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    I've read Altemeyer's book, but I'd forgotten that his figure was also pretty much 30%. I hope the other fella is right, and all you need to get authoritarian personalities on the same page as us societally is to make sure leadership is thoroughly and vocally prosocial. In a society like that, I'd still hate conservatives and the religious right, but things would definitely feel more politically sustainable.

    That said, billionaires are outspending for conservatives everywhere and mostly getting what they want from everyone who isn't a conservative, and capitalism makes that the likeliest outcome. The Nazis have to be fought from every direction, top-down and bottom-up - and yes, that means also punching sideways. I've tearfully shed a few dear friends who can't get with the program myself, and one who outright went insane with incel racist shit after too much 4chan. Each one of them does need to change and grow, but it's deluded to think they're our job to fix.

    Even walked away from a friend of 20 years. I still have a pretty complete mental model of him in my brain. I haven't needed to talk to him to know what he'd say for years, and nothing I could think to say was changing his mind. So I gave up. Fuck conservatives, authoritarians, and billionaires forever.

    So yeah, longwinded comment to say I basically agree, but I haven't given up all hope yet.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

    I'm sorry about your loss of friends. Your comment about knowing exactly what your friend of 20 years would say in any situation and realizing he cannot be saved really resonates with me.

    I also hope the other commenter (and Altemeyer) are right, although I have not read the book. I have a glimmer of hope for us, particularly after seeing the results of the midterms. But the fact that we're having this conversation suggests we all know the fight is nowhere near done. Esoecially as long as billionaires exist.

    Stay strong. You are not alone, as much as it may sometimes feel that way. The more people I talk openly with about these subjects, the more common experiences I find, even with people I would not have suspected felt similarly. All the advice to "find community" seems to be pretty accurate, albeit challenging.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago* (2 children)

    Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians book is the one thing I would recommend to someone like yourself, they demystify the mindset of these people in a way that doesn't condone them or sugarcoat anything, but still manages to make them back into comprehensible human beings. The author's passed away but his site offers them for free, super recommend. I should reread them, apparently I haven't digested everything.

    Unrelated tangent about another book in the same mental category for me (transformative, reframes some of my life's struggles in a way that makes it easier to process, clear and concise professional writing style) is Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. These two books had all the tools I need to begin to heal from the sorry predicament of being me, in this time and place. Maybe you'd feel the same? Pardon the random too-familiar sidebar.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Thank you for the excellent recommendations. I've been looking for a new line of books, and these sound like a good fit. It's hard for me to imagine forgiving any conservatives right now. I think my anger for these overt comic book villains makes it hard to see alternative views of them, but I'd love to find some glimmer of hope that there is a peaceful solution to all this.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    More importantly, you can't really process things emotionally without understanding why they happened, if you're anything like me. Knowing why society is fucked helps me get to a better place mentally and - in my wildest dreams, puts me in a position to make any changes that leave the world better than I found it. By the same token, learning why I grew up too early and always felt emotionally lonely can hopefully help me raise my kid so he doesn't have that issue. These books help. <3

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  • [–] -1 points 2 days ago (13 children)

    If you swap the word "conservatives" with the word "immigrants" then you sound exactly like a maga.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 days ago (12 children)

    Except that immigrants are the life blood and heart of our country and MAGA are actual nazis. So, reality does make a difference here.

    If you remove a couple letters from your user name, then you sound exactly like Adolf Hitler. 🤣 Why would anyone take someone named Adolf Schmitler seriously?! 😆 JFC conservatives don't even try to hide who they are. Just cartoonishly pure evil.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (11 children)

    "Im justified in calling for executions of groups of people, since my cause is pure and rightous so they deserve to die." Yeah ok buddy. Israeli's say that about Palestinians too you know.

    And glad to see you can only focus on my username, since you have absolutely nothing else to say in defense of arguing for genocide. You're more like Hitler and maga than anyone here.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 days ago* (10 children)

    Every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. This truism applies to your latest comment.

    Let's break down your comment and see if we can find a single honest statement within it...

    You claim I called for executions of groups of people. Re-reading the thread reveals no such thing at all was said. So, you started your comment off with a lie. Then, you bring up Israel for some unknown reason as a response to your own lie. Strawman arguments are a form of deception, so that's another lie.

    Then you claim to "be glad" about your next lie. You definitely are not glad about it, so I'll count that as a lie as well.

    Your next lie is that my only statement of defense is to point out how your name celebrates Hitler. Re-reading the thread shows that I had points other than showing how you glorify Hitler with your name, so you've lied there as well.

    Finally, you claim I am more like Maga and Hitler than anyone else in this thread. The fact that you argue in defense of conservatism behind a name that glorifies Hitler shows that to be a lie.

    It seems every claim you made in your comment was a lie. In fact, it appears there was no honest statement to be found in your comment at all. This supports the truism above, that every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation.

    Allow me to predict your next lie in which you claim you are not a conservative, but rather a centrist. 🤣

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (9 children)

    You hide behind semantics then cry strawman. What do you do when you have an infestation besides exterminate it? The person you call is literally called an "exterminator".

    You say everything out of a conservative is deception or manipulation, yet thats all you seem to do as well.

    With every comment you only cement the fact you're not different than the very people you despise. You're only a different side.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago (8 children)

    Oh, are both sides the same? OK. Were both sides the same in 1860 as well?

    Stick with that both-sides argument. I'm sure it'll work out well for the side that protects pedophiles, billionaires and bigots.

    #DisownConservatives

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (7 children)

    I never said both sides were the same, stop shadow boxing comments. You make an awful lot of incorrect assumptions in order to keep justifying your stance of pro-extermination.

    You argue in bad faith, put words in other people's mouths, and change your tune once called out instead of admitting fault. "DisownCondervstives" is nowhere near the same level of exterminating them.

    Im not talking about both sides, im talking about you specifically. That calling for the extermination of conservatives is no different than nazis exterminating jews or Israelis exterminating Palestinians. Yet you refuse to even acknowledge it because you know it's indefensible.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (6 children)

    Here's all I hear from you -

    Adolf Hitler: "Nuh Uh! I'm rubber and you're glue! Stop saying nazis deserve bad things! I'm scared of my victims fighting back!"

    #NaziLivesDontMatter

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (5 children)

    Again, ignoring everything I said in my comment because you know you can't defend it lol. Maybe we can talk when you're ready for the adults table kiddo.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    What points? I freely admit that I do not value the lives of nazis. We are enemies. I value your life exactly as little as you value mine. You're so used to people being afraid to fight back that you have no idea what to do or say except pointing and getting upset when your victims stand up to you. You demand explanations, but never earn them.

    Do you really think a modern civil war will involve battle lines and trenches? The modern civil war is door to door. Neighbor to neighbor. As your side oppresses the public with nazi billionaire backers and media mind control, your victims are learning how to resist you on an interpersonal level. We aren't just disowning you en mass. We understand how your little evil minds work now. We know what scares you and what motivates you. We know what you are and are coming to our own conclusions on how to deal with the problem. It scares you. You are scared we will do to you what you do to your victims.

    Do not mistake our ability to experience empathy for weakness. We are able to turn it off when dealing with our enemy, sparing it only for legitimate human interactions. Conservatives are biologically unable to experience empathy and it scares you. You are all confused why your relationships are so shallow and why family can so easily disown you. So, you become as purely evil and toxic as you can because it makes you feel powerful. Who needs the deep personal connections others have when you can feel powerful instead?

    Not only can conservatives not experience empathy, but conservatives also choose to harm and oppress everyone around them. That choice is what turns a disability into genuine evil. These are the symptoms of conservatism. I would tell you to seek help, but all you would hear is "sieg heil".

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (3 children)

    What in the fuck are you even on about??

    The only thing I've said this entire time, is that you, calling for the extermination of conservatives, is no different than the nazis calling for the extermination of the jews.

    Everything else has been 100% you. You're the only one posting nazi slogans. You're the only one acting like a nazi. And you try SO HARD to convince yourself otherwise.

    You're the one talking about civil wars. You're the one strawmanning my comments. You're the one who keeps ignoring the fact that calling for the extermination of a group of people makes you just like the nazis.

    And youll ignore this too. Because you are seemingly not capable of admitting that calling for a genocide is nazi shit, regardless of how justified you think it is.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (2 children)

    And your only argument is "victims fighting back against nazis with equal violence makes them nazis" as if both sides are the same. They fucking aren't.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    Again youre making things up. I never said anything about fighting back, or that both sides are the same. You have to make up comments to keep justifying your beliefs to yourself.

    Calling for the extermination of any group, for any reason, is nazi shit.

    Idk how many more comments you can make to keep dodging this lol. You can just admit "yeah its the same thinking as nazis but I think my reasoning justifies it."

    Wild how disingenuous you are but im not suprised.

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  • [–] 1 point 23 hours ago

    You are completely unhinged in your constant defense of nazism/conservatism. We are enemies, yet you expect me to "admit" to your made up nonsense. Is that what your victims normally do? Why on earth would you expect to be able to gaslight the victims of conservatives into calling themselves conservatives? Your entitlement is beyond arrogance.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 days ago* (1 child)

    They’re done just like they were done after Nixon. And after Bush and W. And after Harding, Hoover, and Grant before them.

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  • [–] 30 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

    MAGA was just a symptom of the much larger disease of conservatism. The disease has metastasized and is long overdue for a permanent cure.

    Don't believe conservatives when they pretend they are done. They are already regrouping. They will be back, and next time it will be much worse if we don't eliminate this disease while we have the chance.

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  • [–] 19 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    The people who voted for Trump in 2024 are still around. The fact that enough of them got hurt badly enough in the wallet to turn against him this time around doesn't change the fact that they're capable of looking at Trump's first term and thinking "yeah, I'd like another helping of that". Even if the "MAGA" movement in particular guess by the wayside, something else will come along, just as MAGA replaced the tea party folk. We need to stay vigilant.

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  • enough of them got hurt badly enough in the wallet

    This is the point we have to remember, always. It wasn't the corruption, or the incompetence, or the cruelty, or the damage to so many lives, or the straight up murder that turned them against him. It was simply the fact that none of it was benefiting them personally.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 days ago

    I will enjoy watching MAGAs death spiral.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago

    Watching the GOP blame all their failures as public servants in Trump is the most Trump thing ever. It's just scapegoats all the way down.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    Someone should really define what "maga" even is.

    So far, it is a word that sounds much like a baby-word ("maga" sounds like "googoo" and "gaagaa") and the movement seems to embody a set of people that adore a big-mouthed failson who was given a game show that gave gullible people the impression he's a bigly important businessman.

    If you take donnie out of the equation, what do they even stand for? Racism, xenophobia, misogyny? Putting xtians on a pedestal and giving them special privileges? Sure. But that's pretty much the core of conservatism and always has been.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago

    God I hope so, but I doubt it.

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  • 15 comments in c/news@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 81 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

    Trump hasn't cost you.

    Your support of Trump cost you. Your never standing against his policies no matter how batshit they are cost you. Rubber stamping the Iran war cost you.

    In the words of Lt. Gen. David Morrisson, "The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.".
    You've walked past Trump doing a ton of awful stuff, that is the standard you accept. The nation has judged that standard unacceptable and you with it.

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  • [–] 35 points 3 days ago

    Goes way beyond trump for me. Again the whole republican party allowed the constitution to be violated as a matter of executive policy. I can't treat it as a legitimate party or treat any of its voters as anything more than traitors. I know im going to get the "they have always been that way crowd" but a real line was crossed that can't be taken back and there is a big history of cozying up to the line since nixon with almost all of their administrations.

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  • [–] 24 points 3 days ago

    At least they're blaming Trump instead of Biden or Obama.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 days ago (6 children)

    I'm quite frankly surprised they didn't double-down on the election fraud lies. At least this will apparently shut most of them the fuck up on that stupidity.

    Alas, they retain the rest of their stupidity.

    But it's nice to enjoy a little break from that particular lie.

    Although it does make me roll my eyes even harder at the new reports of a :breathless reporter: ILLEGALS CARAVAN HEADING TO THE US BORDER!!!! :sigh: So that bullshit again.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    It's not the general election yet. Just you wait, they will be there. They're always there.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    It was literally the general election.

    I presume you are thinking of the presidential election in two years, instead of the midterms, whose general election occurred 6 days ago.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Did we get a new president then? No, didn't think so.

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  • The general election does not mean “you elect a new president”.

    The general election is “the one that matters” - as in, you win it, and you are officially recognized as having won the office you ran for, not winning the party nomination ir proceeding to the next round or whatever else. In the US, is held the first Tuesday after the first Monday (that is, anywhere from Nov 2 through Nov 7, but always on Tuesday). Every 4 years, there is a presidential election. It is also held outside of presidential election years for congressional and non-federal elections.

    I’m not going to sit here and debate well-known and codified terminology with you, despite your pithy retort.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 days ago

    Maybe MAGA should be asking if they're fucking gullible dipshits or not. You followed a conman for 10 years and this is what you have to show for it.

    Treat the cause, not the symptom.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 days ago

    The country will continue it's pointless rock back and forth.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 days ago

    YOU cost you FFS...

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago*

    The oligarchy that sponsors Trump, MAGA, and some of the Democrats, has cost you. And will continue to cost you unless you fight it.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago

    Yes.

    Well, Donald will throw a tantrum again on his way out.

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