Timmons says he placed a tracker on the police chief’s truck and a surveillance camera on a car wash pointing at city hall where the chief’s office is because the mayor’s signature goes on the chief’s time sheets and he had concerns about them.

“The mayor’s position is not just shaking hands and kissing babies,” Timmons said.

But the mayor says he did not expect officers’ signatures on a bunch of resignation letters and did not expect the entire full-time Milner police department to resign effective Wednesday, Oct. 28.

The mayor wants to and says he’ll be able to keep a police department. In the meantime, the sheriff will patrol.

Milner Police Chief Lamar Bunn says he’s done nothing wrong.

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[–] 269 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Oh, do cops not like being surveiled and held accountable? That's crazy yo.

Perfect opportunity to clean house.

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  • [+] -27 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    Nah, I'm with the police on this one

    This is a micromanager using trackers and cameras to watch exactly when the police chief is, and isn't, in his office

    Fuck that. I don't care who you are, your boss shouldn't be managing by stalking you

    If the mayor was worth anything, he'd be managing the chief based on results, not how long he was in the office

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  • [–] [S] 57 points 2 days ago

    The article clearly states that the police movements were tracked because their time sheets were suspect.

    In a city/state/country with functional oversight, this wouldn't be a problem and these lengths wouldn't be necessary, but apparently they are.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 day ago

    People with the power to kill members of the public HAVE to answer to someone elected by the public (IMHO). Far too many police forces answer to NO ONE and tell their mayor/city council to kick rocks. That is dangerous and intolerable.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago

    This only is somewhat reasonable if police have salaries that cannot obtain overtime.

    That's not how police are structured in the US, especially in red states. Police in the US can receive overtime, therefore, there should be some basic check on whether or not they're actually doing anything, or even showing up for the time they state.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago*

    Nah fuck the police. They are able to just randomly shoot innocent people, access tracking technology that lets them know everything any specific person does and rarely, if ever, answer to anyone. They like watching everyone, they can deal with someone watching them to make sure they're doing their damn jobs

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  • [–] 106 points 2 days ago (9 children)

    Tracking state property should be the norm, actually?

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  • [+] -16 points 1 day ago (8 children)

    Principle of least privilege shouldn't allow the mayor to be privy to that information.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 day ago (7 children)

    That is NOT fucking least privileged access, don't make shit up.

    Source: work in security for 15+ years. I know bullshit when I smell it.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (6 children)

    What part of the mayor's job is keeping track of assets?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Some random police employee is probably responsible for inventory management. But the police chief is responsible for that employee and the mayor is responsible for the chief. So if the mayor believes that assets are being misused they have a responsibly to try and figure it out or they become culpable to misused assets. The lack of top down process ownership is a problem these days. Responsibility rarely rolls uphill but it should.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    I think you'll find the comment I responded to was saying tracking state property should be the norm.

    I'll further guess you'll find that companies have departments for asset protection.

    And if you'll stay with me once more. The security team can reference surveillance to check if timesheets are being falsified.

    Now to reiterate: at no point was the mayor involed in seeing the actual data rather they would make a request to the relevant parties.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (2 children)

    So how do you think a mayor should deal with police lying on their timesheets?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    Ask security to check the cameras to see if they are leaving early or showing up late. Ask them about login times to see if people are signing in or out early.

    Ask whomever tracks the cars to see if they are being signed in or out at odd times. Even asking them just for a list of times a specific car was signed in or out.

    At both of these points there is a person who decides whether the mayor should be allowed specific information given their duties. (In the OP example it's for a time sheet that they manage). Also note, both of these provide less information than the OP.

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  • [–] 93 points 2 days ago (7 children)

    So the entire force was committing fraud, is what I’m hearing from those resignations. Charge the mfers instead of letting them just fuck off one county over.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    If your boss put an illicit tracker on your car, then put up cameras to surveil when you get to the office, how would you respond?

    I know I'd fucking quit. Especially when I have to be responding to calls and emails at all hours of the day

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  • [–] 27 points 2 days ago*

    If I was a public servant I’d expect that every place I went with a government car and everything I did in it was recorded, because for police the alternative is fucking nuts. I’d also expect incredibly basic fact checking investigations like that when someone was suspected of fraud.

    By the way, the entire department wasn’t tracked. Per the article only the chief was, yet everyone quit. If you can’t see crooked when it’s staring you in the face then I can’t help you.

    Crying about workers’ rights for cops is ass-backwards when they protect capital over workers, regardless.

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  • [–] [S] 19 points 2 days ago

    If your boss put an illicit tracker on your car, then put up cameras to surveil when you get to the office, how would you respond?

    I'd expect some kind of accountability if I were fudging my time sheets.

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  • My work issued phone has GPS tracking on it. My company issued laptop has GPS tracking on it. My work issued vehicle has GPS tracking on it. I have a camera that faces in and out of the vehicle as well. That's just how most companies are these days.

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  • [–] 90 points 2 days ago (12 children)

    Police should have GPS tracking on work vehicles. It is the same as body cameras, it can exonerate them as well as price wrongdoing.

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  • [–] 55 points 2 days ago (8 children)

    Truckers have stricter requirements for GPS tracking and cameras than cops I bet.

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  • [–] 29 points 2 days ago (6 children)

    Truckers have a weaker union than cops

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  • [–] 27 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Police unions are the only unions that shouldn't be allowed to exist. Police are enforcers for the ruling class, not labor.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Imo public servants should not be unionized for they are already in a larger union; the government

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child)

    The government isn’t a union. A union is an organization within a workplace that's controlled by the workers. The government is controlled by the voters, the vast majority of whom don’t work for the government.

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  • That is the union in question. Public service should be something that is controlled entirely by the voters. It is not a career to enrich yourself, it is a service. And if you have grievances with the voters, your bosses, you need to take it to them directly.

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  • [–] 30 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Logistics, you know where your people and equipment are in times of crisis instead of calling everyone on the radio. Pretty sure shipping companies do this for similar reasons, know where the stuff is at all times. If they have a problem with that being part of the job, they can find another one. For an honest cop, this shouldn't even be a question.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 days ago

    Moreover, cruisers are public property. If a private company provides a vehicle and are allowed to ensure it's not misused, certainly taxpayers funding the employees and property are entitled to ensuring responsible use.

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  • [–] 81 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Why are the police upset? Do they have something to hide?

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  • [–] 58 points 2 days ago

    Cops love warrantless search until someone has the audacity to use it against them.

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  • [–] 54 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    On one hand, having your boss micromanage the hell out of you and kind of stalk you is insane.

    On the other hand, that's what cops do daily to everyone with ALPR's. I'm not sure where to put my rage on this one lol. How's it feel to be treated the way you treat others?

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  • [–] 13 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I used to be a delivery driver for a wholesale bakery. The van was rigged to text my boss every time I went over 55MPH. This was years ago. The fact that there isn’t a similar level of surveillance on police is wild

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  • [–] 54 points 2 days ago

    The watchers don't like being watched. The irony.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 day ago

    Restructure and rehire. When one door shuts...

    Doesn't have to be about oppression anymore. Today's police force is a relic of the lynch mob era. The mob became the police.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 day ago

    Problem took care of itself.

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  • [–] 63 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    So the cops are fine with surveiling the populace, but when somebody does it to them they're suddenly all butthurt? What a surprise.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Abolish the police with one easy step!

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  • [–] [S] 124 points 2 days ago* (6 children)

    TLDR: The cops appear to have been fudging their time sheets to get money for nothing from the city and taxpayers.

    But I can appreciate the amount of oversight this mayor unilaterally decided to enforce on behalf of constituents. Kinda sucks that we can't get this kind of institutional oversight except on a super-local scale.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    The article provides no evidence the chief was lying about hit time. There was a tracker and camera, and even the mayor isn't claiming to have collected any proof of fraud

    This is the mayor:

    Right is right and wrong is wrong. … I turned my life over to Jesus 15 years ago, I’m a recovering drug addict, and I turned my life to Jesus

    The mayor comes across as a paranoid addict who treats everyone else like an addict who can't be trusted

    TLDR: The cops appear to have been fudging their time sheets to get money for nothing from the city and taxpayers.

    Do you have anything to substantiate your claim here?

    Separately, it feels very dishonest that you presented it as a TLDR of the article, when the article doesn't make this claim

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  • [–] [S] 18 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Timmons says he placed a tracker on the police chief’s truck and a surveillance camera on a car wash pointing at city hall where the chief’s office is because the mayor’s signature goes on the chief’s time sheets and he had concerns about them.

    Read closer next time.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 day ago* (1 child)

    @Taldan@lemmy.world is not inaccurate, all they are saying is this isn't cut and dry, and you should keep reading:

    Milner Police Chief Lamar Bunn says he’s done nothing wrong.

    He says his job is not confined to a building, a vehicle or the city limits, that he’s worked remotely at times on administrative matters, emails, for instance, monitoring the radio and more.

    And Bunn says his boss, the city administrator, knows how he works.

    “My job doesn’t stop when I leave the office,” he said.

    The Mayor is a former alcoholic who thinks he's always right because he found religion.

    And if this was anyone other than an officer, Lemmy would be in an uproar about invasion of privacy and in-office requirements.

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    And if this was anyone other than an officer, Lemmy would be in an uproar about invasion of privacy and in-office requirements.

    Yeah, because that's a very important detail that can't be ignored.

    And I might think you have a point but for the mass resignation. It's common practice here in the US for cops to just take a job in another department when they get themselves into trouble. These frauds probably already have new gigs lined up.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago

    Do you have anything to substantiate your claim here?

    IMO police corruption is so common in this country that the burden of proof is on the cops to prove they’re not corrupt. As far as I can tell, “lack of accountability” is the main reason people have been getting into the profession (evidence: lower and lower rates of people becoming police officers ever since Ferguson in 2014).

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  • [–] 41 points 1 day ago

    Uh oh somebody is upset they can't commit fraud and steal taxpayer dollars anymore.

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  • [–] 56 points 2 days ago

    Cops hate accountability.

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  • [–] 54 points 1 day ago

    Sometimes the trash just takes itself out

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  • [–] 29 points 2 days ago

    There is definitely more to this story

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  • [–] 14 points 1 day ago

    No cops? Time to seize the means of production!

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  • [–] 39 points 2 days ago

    Milner Police Chief Lamar Bunn says he’s done nothing wrong.

    I wonder if that excuse would work on him when pulling someone over after retrieving their Flock data.

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  • [–] 32 points 2 days ago

    Hire new people. The police have too much power, we all know it.

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  • [–] 72 points 2 days ago* (20 children)

    One of the best things that New York City did while I was living there was to get rid of qualified immunity for police officers. Those who enforce the law should be the last people who should ever be considered to be ABOVE the law.

    Simply resigning from one’s position should never absolve one from a crime nor be means from escape from investigation into/prosecution for one’s commission of/participation in a crime/crimes. And for police officers, specifically, when resigning from one police department, it should preclude the ability to ever join another.

    Those who are entrusted to enforce the law should be held to a higher standard, not a lower one. This is one of the greatest civil failures of American society that must be corrected as soon as possible.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 days ago (14 children)

    Just want to clarify, they limited qualified immunity in specific situations, they haven’t gotten rid of it completely.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 days ago (13 children)

    They both did and did not. If you wanna know the specifics, I suggest you look up the law. I’m not a legal scholar, nor am I qualified to explain it here.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (12 children)

    Give us a tl;dr from your understanding. Sounds interesting.

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  • [+] -9 points 2 days ago* (11 children)

    Not to be a jerk, but

    If you wanna know the specifics, I suggest you look up the law. I’m not a legal scholar, nor am I qualified to explain it here.

    You are responsible for your own knowledge. Demanding that others teach you? Fuck you.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago

    So here's the thing. This is a place called "social media". In such a space humans exchange information. Crazy, right? If I wanted to live my online life inside a search engine, I would do so. But I like to talk to and learn from other people. You're not one of those people, but you get my drift.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago (9 children)

    That was his nice way of trying to help correct your misconception

    You are wrong. Your understanding of qualified immunity in NYC is wrong. We can't help correct your misconceptions if we don't know more details about your incorrect beliefs

    When we look it up, all we see is qualified inmunity still exists and has not been ended in NYC. We cannot look up why you incorrectly believe it has been

    Someone was trying to correct you in the gentlest way possible, without making you embarrassed about being wrong and you tell them, "fuck you". Look in a mirror buddy

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  • [–] -5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (8 children)

    That was his nice way of trying to help correct your misconception

    Nice attempt at gaslighting. But not a very good one.

    You are wrong

    Also know, you gaslighting sack of shit:

    https://council.nyc.gov/press/2021/03/25/2079/

    Since you’re obviously here to troll, I’m blocking you.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (7 children)

    What an absolutely psychotic response this is.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 day ago* (6 children)

    Using facts and evidence to prove that you’re wrong… “ psychotic”?

    “Psychotic” is the inability to admit that you’re wrong, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence. Like Trump. But, I’m sure, there is somebody else you can blame for your own mistakes… Lol.

    Maybe you should build a ballroom to feel better about yourself, lol

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago

    What facts exactly do you think you gave there? Cuz I read the link you provided. Nowhere in there does it say that qualified immunity has completely ended in New York City.

    But yeah, you do seem unhinged.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago* (4 children)

    Actually I'm kind of confused by your response too. First of all you didn't provide evidence of anything because your link is about a plan to vote not one that already passed, so technically you gave zero evidence of anything. But I will assume they passed the vote, just to move forward the conversation. More pertinent maybe the actual article seems to support what the other people in this thread are saying and not what you're saying. So I'm confused why you think what you posted was such Rock Solid evidence:

    To increase accountability, the Council will vote on a bill that will effectively end qualified immunity as a defense for certain civil rights violations.

    So the people saying they only ended it in certain cases seem correct based upon your own evidence. What am I missing here?

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  • [–] -3 points 1 day ago* (3 children)

    First of all you didn't provide evidence

    When you start with such a blatant and obvious lie, everything else you say can be thrown in the trash

    Did you forget that every comment made beforehand is visible to everyone? Including my comment that contains the evidence you deny exists?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago* (2 children)

    Wow you didn't address anything I said in my comment. I even quoted your so-called evidence and why it was faulty, but you completely ignored it then called me a liar.

    You know what, no, I agree with the other guy now. You're coming off as psychotic.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 day ago* (1 child)

    Sifting through your bullshit lies isn’t worth my time. Why would I bother? to jerk off your ego? That’s not my job.

    And giving validity to your false claims, doesn’t serve me either.

    Go lie to and gaslight someone as stupid as you, which I clearly am not.

    I’ve proven you wrong before you even dared to speak. And if you haven’t realized what a stupid mistake you made by even commenting here in the first place, let me make it clear now: the facts proved you wrong before you even spoke, and I will continue to point out what a ridiculous and stupidly wrong ass you are until you simply stop proving that yourself.

    You are a victim of nothing other than your own dogmatic ignorance. I suggest you step away from social media and work on some self improvement. And to aid you in that, I’m gonna block you now, so the only one you have to argue with is yourself. Hopefully, you’ll realize the absurd foolishness of your endeavors, but my hopes for that are not high.

    Best of luck. You’ll need it.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Mostly agreed, but there are a thousand legitimate reasons to resign and that act shouldn't remove them from their profession. Same with getting fired. Who hasn't had an asshole boss or been fired unjustly (or at least known someone who was)?

    We need to hold the police force who re-employs the asshole cops accountable. Sure, hire 'em! But if they step out of line just once, that force is getting sued into the ground.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    1000 reasons? A dangerous myth that has led us into our present situation. Are there special exceptions? Yes, but they are very few and far between. Their exceptions to every rule, obviously, but that requires intelligent discretion exercised one incident at a time. And they are very rare.

    In reality, all cops are power, abusing, fascist pieces of shit. That is the entire reason they became cops in the first place. If not, there would be no people to be cops. If they weren’t fascist psychopathic pieces of shit, there wouldn’t be people available to be cops, so, logically, the fact that there are police officers dictates the fact that they are all psychopathic monsters. If there is any evidence to the contrary, anyone is welcome to present it, but until anyone does, the logical conclusion is that anyone and everyone who is a police officer is and was recruited specifically because they are a psychopathic monster.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I agree with all that about cops, but you think a resignation is proof of malfeasance? Fuck me, I have more reasons than most to hate pigs, but I'm not blinded by that hate.

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  • [–] 1 point 14 hours ago

    Honestly, if you read through their comments in the rest of the thread there’s not much point in trying to convince them. They’ve made up their mind and pointing out facts just results in them claiming you are gaslighting them.

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  • What did the police do wrong that caused them to resign?

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  • [–] 4 points 13 hours ago

    So mass surveillance is perfectly fine, because it helps detect crime. Even if it doesn't detect a single crime over the course of 20 years.

    But surveillance for police officers is bad, even if it immediately detects crime?

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  • [–] 9 points 2 days ago

    Get rid of trash with this single trick!

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