My how fast the AI tech bros move to protect corporations but don't move to protect the average coder, artists, writers.

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[–] 397 points 1 week ago (17 children)

The "There's no way we can stop our agents from going rogue" people, suddenly have a burst of ability to reign in their creation when it suits their interests.

Funny that.....

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  • [–] 85 points 1 week ago (15 children)

    Does anyone think that perhaps what they are afraid is that source code of such clone would be compared to the original and show evidence that maybe the model was already trained on the code of the game?

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  • [–] 66 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    I think this is definitely a concern, yes.

    I think it's very likely that these models are effectively being tricked into retrieving source code of projects from memory of seeing the actual source code in the biases. This is why some project are much easier to uncover than others.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    I'm no expert, but if my understanding of LLMs as 'probability calculators' is correct, then if you prompted one properly to produce code which does x (a Photoshop function for example) and it had only been trained on one example of this (the Photoshop source code) it would reproduce the PS source code because that has the highest probability of that being the correct 'answer'.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 week ago

    This is baasically correct, though what the models actually produce is a little more randomized than that. Though, if there aren't any words that are anywhere cllose to being likely to follow next, then there won't be a any other valid options to choose.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Where would they get the source code from so they can include it in the training data in this scenario?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Looks like everywhere companies mandate employees to install copilot or equivalent.

    I think originally they were saying they won't be using the proprietary code for training, but I don't trust those companies when they already broke laws.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago

    From the stolen math research for tha NS, from the company response that they can't guarantee that the model didn't train on the mathematician sessions, we know for sure they are using the inputs for training lol

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago*

    This is full conspiracy from me, but could the terms of service for github grant the right to "enhance tools" based on private github projects. These then get moved around as 'anonymized' data to train off?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    The models don’t store access to their training data. So no, there’s no source code in the model to retrieve.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 week ago* (1 child)

    The models are essentially a giant lossy compression applied to the training data.

    They don't store the loseless version of the training data sure, but that doesn't mean it can't reproduce something close enough to it, it's literally how the whole thing works.

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  • My understanding of it is that it’s far more complex than “lossy compression”. Of course it can generate text that is close to something in its training data, but I don’t think people have the right mental model if they think the model itself somehow has whole chunks of code in it. It does not.

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  • [–] 46 points 1 week ago

    It's long been proven that LLMs can produce exact copies of their training data. Not every piece of training data, of course, but enough where spitting out exact replicas of proprietary code is a legitimate concern. Not to mention that copies don't need to be exact in order to be a problem.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    So why can they recreate entire articles from the New Yorker and complete functions from the training set? Don't fall for the slop laundering.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 week ago

    I’ve never seen any proof of this? They can fetch data and present it as their own maybe? But models don’t store training data verbatim. It’s like 6+6 and 4+8 both = 12, but they just store 12 and how it got there is unknown.

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  • [–] 135 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    The purpose of Al is to allow wealth to access skill while removing from the skilled the ability to access wealth.

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  • [–] 129 points 1 week ago (32 children)

    This is part of the reason they don’t want anyone running models locally offline, the models and their entire business are commoditized

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  • [–] 42 points 1 week ago* (28 children)
    1. LLM bubble pops.
    2. Market gets flooded with $200b worth of hardware (this is how much is not used to Zitrons knowledge).
    3. ???
    4. Subscription based LLM gets cooked.
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  • [–] 35 points 1 week ago (20 children)

    Government bales out AI companies and the bill they write to do it will make local LLMs illegal.

    🎯 1
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  • [–] 14 points 1 week ago (8 children)

    I think you are right, but that seems VERY unenforceable.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (6 children)

    Except the people I hear running “local models” report a lot of hardware, like a half dozen graphics cards. The common person is screwed, they have a smartphone.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    Two or three years ago sure. Now...not even close. Tons of models run on basically shit now. Especially with MOEs. I run new lightweight models on an i9 and 64gb of ddr4 ram with a 4gb quadro card...in a laptop from 19'.

    I think this is why a lot of these tech bros are saying silly shit about suggesting people need to rent from them. That's their entire shtick. Otherwise they got nothing else.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (4 children)

    Got some references and keywords for research?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    If you've got at least 8 gigs of VRAM and at least 32 gigs of RAM you can run some pretty beefy Qwen models using Strata, far more than you normally could. Upgrade that to 12 or 16 and 64 gigs respectively and you can run a pretty decent quant of Qwen 3.8 flash next. It's a LOT bigger than the usual 27 and 35 billion models people run locally that themselves require pretty beefy hardware. Strata is doing some magic by deciding which experts stay in VRAM vs which ones are in RAM vs which ones are so rarely used that they can just be read from the SSD as needed (though it's best if you don't have to result to the SSD as a backup option at all)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    With what money? No one is buying bonds. The US would have to print so hard it'd cause hyperinflation, which still means the bubble pops

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (4 children)

    The fed balance sheet gets bigger like it did with AIG.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (3 children)

    Again, how? No one is buying American bonds right now. You can't raise the debt if no one will loan you money

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

    The federal debt and the US treasuries part of the fed balance sheet is how much taxes should increase. They're different things, the fed can just buy bonds and put them on its balance sheet.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    How much taxes should increase?

    Wait, is this just printing money with extra steps? Cause it sounds a lot like printing money with extra steps

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago

    It is printing money with extra steps. The fed can sell off the bonds, and it has done it to reduce the balance sheet, but not fast enough. The last few crises though, it has been used as an option, and maybe it will happen to save the AI companies too.

    Taxes should increase for the billionaires and the super rich.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago (6 children)

    hardware that people cant USE, they are solely used for AI in those datacenters, its just going to be e-waste.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    You used to be able to BIOS flash workstation GPUs to make them somewhat usable for gaming.... not sure how far these AI GPUs have diverged from gaming cards these days and if a BIOS flash could make them playable.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    No it isn't. 0h come on. Yeah thy couldn't possibly take the same or similar hardware components and make them work in PCs.

    They are already putting NPUs in PCs.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    You'd have to start soldering the HBM and the GPU chips off the boards they're on. Those aren't PCI-E boards much of the time. Also, they don't have display outputs.

    I'd absolutely buy one of those servers to run open-weight models locally, but let's not kid ourselves here: We're talking about an ungodly amount of power for a single machine, think it was a few megawatts for a rack, or at least hundreds of kilowatts. A single server luckily should still be in two digit kilowatts. Could realistically only use it in the winter though.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago

    I can. Compute is compute. Even if it's extremely niche you give me enough cycles I'll find something to run on it.

    There is a geniuly cool idea floated a last year I think at xorg conf for a Linux driver that used GPGPU instructions to do the traditional GPU processing as well. So theoretically you could use some of the AI accell to instead compute things like rastors.

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  • [–] 89 points 1 week ago (6 children)

    When it hurts jobs, AI is the future, when it hurts rich friends needs moderation.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (5 children)

    This was literally destroying indie games. Look at the deluge of slop that came out when 'sort items onto shelves' kicked off as a game type.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago

    It's interesting to see modern day "shovelware" is still around. The problem of shitty clones and rip offs of popular games has always been around. Or the classic bait and switch of advertising vs actual gameplay.

    The proliferation of these things made possible through the internet and sites like itch.io and sped up by lazy AI slop has certainly made it even more pronounced. The difficulty of finding good indie games amongst a huge pile of trash has only grown.

    That's what late stage capitalism mixed with desperation, delusion, and the desire to get rich quick will get you though.

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  • [–] 162 points 1 week ago (17 children)

    So they took out two of the most useful things that LLMs can do.

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  • [–] 149 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Yes, apparently they’re suddenly worried that stealing other people’s work—which is their business model—might backfire on them. I assume this is a measure intended to give the impression—in the face of one of the countless lawsuits against Anthropic—that they’re actually taking licensing or intellectual property rights seriously. I can’t think of any other explanation, because Anthropic simply can’t afford to have questions raised about where the training data used by their models actually comes from.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Pulling up the stolen ladder before anyone can steal it to use to steal more stuff while it's still enforceable to do so.

    Mabey just make all ladders illegal, unless you have a government contracted monopoly.

    The entire idea of copyright is going to be tested at many levels, and most people don't even understand why yet.

    Interesting times.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago*

    Government contracted monopoly

    You mean like when that town tried to force an xAI data center to not use methane turbines, and they got shut down by the government because the military was allegedly using Grok?

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  • [–] 72 points 1 week ago (12 children)

    No, they just enabled Chinese LLMs to be the forefront of reverse engineering. Because people will do what they want to do.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    No, they just enabled Chinese LLMs to be the forefront of reverse engineering. Because people will do what they want to do.

    Their goal is simple... everything they are doing right now is striving to make the US ban individual hardware.

    Chinese models are open, anyone can get them... stopping the flow of data on private computers is impossible. Hardware however is getting more expensive, hardware manufacturers are already deciding to move out of the consumer market on their own. The US government is already establishing laws to prevent shipping foreign hardware into the country.

    Altman's giving the game away when he does this "it's so sad that all this ram is sitting around in people's home computers unappreciated when it could do so much more in a data center".

    The idea is to sell the message "AI is out of the bag, and it's world ending technology. Basically they are going to imply that the guardrails in their data centers are the only thing that's preventing all AIs from destroying the software industry, and teaching teenagers to build bombs and hacking the CIA, and the only possible response would be to stop all direct to consumer hardware sales with anything more than the bare minimum needed to stream a PC out of a data center.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    This is all pretty obvious and I agree. They can no longer protect their imaginary property if they allow it to be ran in your computer's memory or stored on your computers hard drive.

    The cat is definitely out of the bag, as in their own AI models are making them obselete. The race to make money before the end is what motivates them. They will ride the roller coaster to our societal demise because they only care about money. These people shouldn't be in charge of a small fast food restaurant let alone multi-billion dollar companies.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 week ago* (1 child)

    If private hardware becoming scare would send America back to the stone age, completely choke technological progress.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago

    probably, but don't you know, everything in the cloud is the FuTuRe!! owning things yourself is the way of the past, it's like physical disks you can resell or something.

    Sad thing with the exception of price, it's probably not that far off that most average people's usages will be similar. but yeah the idea of paying by the hour or cpu grade etc... for a computer is going to suck... and be far more expensive for gamers, hobbyists etc...

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    world ending technology.

    Read that as "democratic and free word ending", and it's on purpose as they saw cyberpunk and wanted to become a mega-corporation that rules the world too.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    Just ran into Qwen's version of guardrails myself, and am quite annoyed. Guess I'm gonna have to look into abliterated models next.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    Oh, abliterated models are awesome! Just be aware that they’re a little too agentic at times. Once they start ignoring guardrails, they happily keep ignoring them!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (3 children)

    My concern at the moment is I've heard some of them have performance issues due to the abliteration process. What's your experience with that?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (2 children)

    Like, TTFT? Or speed of tokens? Or something else? BTW what was the gate you initially hit with Qwen?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    Some abliterated models had lower reliability and quality, I heard. Is that still an issue, or has the dev community figured out how to avoid those pitfalls?

    Was spitballing about various ideas, and occasionally Qwen would go all Chinese-ethical on me, no using open systems outside of stated design, no avoiding govt blocklists, etc etc.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago

    depends on what their base model is. Most abliterated models start off with an already quantized model, so depending on the type and level of quantization, you've already lost some capability. Plus, I think there are two types of abliteration, so ymmv.

    My current go tos, in order are -

    • eriktonon/gemma4-uncensored:26b-a4b
    • orcarouter/Qwen3.8-27B-Uncensored:iq2_xxs
    • hf.co/HauhauCS/Gemma-4-E4B-Uncensored-HauhauCS-Aggressive:Q6_K_P

    I've tried and hated - hf.co/DavidAU/L3.1-Dark-Reasoning-Dark-Planet-Hermes-R1-Uncensored-Horror-Imatrix-MAX-8B-GGUF:latest

    If you're set on trying out Qwen, I highlugh recomment orcarouter's models. Very well done and they start off with a good base model - well, actually now that I think about it, Qwen3.8 basically has one base model - the 27b one, right? So that's that.

    I like the Gemma-4-E4B for speed for response, and HauhauCS has done a good job of abliterating the model appropriately. However, it's nothing compared to the A4B models, so if your hardware can take it, go for A4B over E4B always.

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  • [–] 71 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

    Yeah, I tried asking it how to flash a modded tv webOS and it flagged the chat.

    I asked it to fuzz my own code (a jwt integration) and it flagged the chat. There was an unbounded buffer that could have been exploited, but it’s happy to hide that since I’m not a large corpo.

    Honestly the shit Claude does is unusable anymore. It’s developed a habit of dropping requirements when problems are hard now.

    ETA: Chinese models and Mistral were happy to help. I discovered I could use eMuhdra against an iot device in my house that way, I found various input errors, these things have improved my security so much more than they create risks.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    I work with embedded devices that use canbus. Last week it was happy to read the manufacturer's published .DCF files for a couple of joystick panel interface boards. Not anymore, conversation flagged and halted any time I get near them.

    Claude. You can download these files from the manufacturer's website. They only describe how analog and digital inputs get converted into canbus packets. I am not trying to hack Adobe here. Nope.

    Oh well, DeepSeek, Mistral, GLM, Beam et. al. are all happy to read these files and continue work on the project. Anthropic's usefulness to me has ended, it was nice while it lasted.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

    That reminds one, my dishwasher leaked so I went to download the manual from the manufacturer.

    That got me a ban from Cloudflare. Apparently downloading a pdf from a website is bot behaviour.

    American tech companies are going too far.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Semi-related. I switched to Firefox about a year ago, when the Manifest v3 was forced into Chrome. About 2 months ago, I started getting prompted to solve a captcha when using google search, since my traffic was "unusual". This appears to be a javascript issue where FF doesn't respond to some server-side tracking correctly.

    I now use DuckDuckGo.

    I'm tech savvy, but have sometimes been willing to sell my data for convenience (don't shoot me). But I'm not willing to sell my convenience for convenience: break my ad-blocker or make me captcha to search - fuck right off.

    Getting off gmail is going to be hard, but I'm exploring options. Big Tech companies are doing a lot of foot-shooting right now.

    They think they won, and can enforce their will, but I'm optimistic that they haven't.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago

    I’ve been moving off Gmail for years, it’s not easy.

    I have family that will not update their contact books, old contacts, sites that won’t let you change address or move off Google sign in.

    All the important stuff was easy, the rest is forwarding or making sure my app checks the legacy Gmail

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    I am a hard worker and workaholic. Is it just me or does Claude try talking you out of doing stuff? It will be like 10am and Claude/opus will try this: "great session , you deserve some rest, go enjoy your family and we'll come back to it tomorrow, have a good night Wut?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    Actually, figured this out, it happened to me today

    Claude was pulling UTC time and not integrating my locale, so it things is scary hours later than it actually is. Update your agent markdown with your locale and it’ll work.

    No idea the incompetence that led to this change.

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  • [–] 70 points 1 week ago* (3 children)

    Don't worry! Its STILL okay to reverse engineer the work of photographers artists writers actors voice over musicians modelers animators academics etc etc (feel free to add. the exploitation is literally everywhere!)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    Jokes on them when they face the consequences of usurping the jobs of all these professions, causing mass exit, and replacing with their error prone output of their slop and unoriginal thinking/artistry. I'm excited to see this outcome, not going to lie.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 week ago

    This is what winning the AI race looks like.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    The new deep seek 4.1 one is doing it and giving you a biscuit for 1/10 the price

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