This cartoon from The Seattle Times illustrates how America's economic pizza is actually sliced per capita, highlighting the massive disparity between the Top 1%, the merely wealthy, the upper middle class, and the lower 50%.

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[–] 139 points 1 month ago (38 children)

I cannot stop seeing this idea overlaid on every thing that I see or do or hear about. Every action is filtered through the lens of it being extractive and manipulative.

I feel extremely stressed because I see the bars of the cage and no one else around me wants to acknowledge them.

I do not like this. I would like it to stop please.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago

    Take back power anyway you can.

    Tenant unions, worker unions, worker cooperatives, community land trusts, tool libraries.

    Work towards owning your business and your home and your community WITH your coworkers and your neighborhood and your community.

    We can overcome the tyrants if we work together. Federal elections are only one small piece of the puzzle and no one will save us but ourselves.

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  • [–] 49 points 1 month ago (33 children)

    Reject consumerism, make things instead.

    We have friends coming over, instead of ordering food from a mega corporation I am going to make pizza and potato wedges.

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  • [+] -20 points 1 month ago* (32 children)

    Where do the ingredients come from? Are you growing your own grain and milling it into your own flower? Do you have your own cows or goats to make your own cheese? Did you build your own oven? Fired with wood you cut down yourself?

    Not buying the very last link in the chain doesn't matter. It only makes you feel like you're doing something.

    You'd be more effective buying the pizza from a locally owned place.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    Not buying the very last link in the chain doesn't matter.

    It absolutely does. You're cutting out the part with highest markup. Skipping an entire manufacturing process.

    You can get the ingredients for a fraction of the cost compared to a finished product.

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  • [+] -11 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    Maybe. But price wasn't the argument being made. That's a non sequitur.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago* (9 children)

    I'm sorry where do you think profit comes from? It's not grown on profit trees, it's baked into the price. Higher markup, higher price, higher profit.

    Non sequitur my ass

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  • [–] -5 points 1 month ago* (8 children)

    The idea is capitalism. As in, buying from large corporations. Whatever the price or profit, the topic was about who and where you're buying from, not for how much.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (7 children)

    "You want to change society. Yet you participate in it. Curious...."

    I buy the majority of my groceries from a local farmers market. Things I can't get there I buy from Wal Mart. I buy pizza from a local mom and pop shop, where they live above their restaurant. I do everything I can to make buying from mega corps a last choice decision. My partner and I will be starting our garden next year and growing a lot of our own vegetables. We'll be raising pork pigs so we don't have to buy factory pork. There's so many little things you can do as an individual to choke off the billionaires.

    But if you want to keep bending over like you seem to be acting, more power to you. Just don't blame others for society collapsing.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Those things are all good to do, because they support your local economy, and probably have better quality food for your own health.

    But Walmart doesn't care, and doesn't view your local farmer's market as competition. As you said they don't have everything, and you still go to Walmart when you need to. I'm just saying be honest about your reasons. Buying from your farmers market isn't fighting capitalism. It's just buying better local food.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (5 children)

    Buying from your farmers market isn’t fighting capitalism. It’s just buying better local food.

    Both can be true. If I spend $80 at my market, and $20 at Wal Mart, the mega corp is only getting a fifth of what I planned on spending for groceries. I really don't give a shit personally if Wal Mart doesn't feel the sting of not getting an extra $80 from me, I feel better as a person spending that locally on small individual markets.

    I'm not trying to take down Wal Mart by myself. But I can do little things individually that helps.

    And unlike you, I am honest in my reasons. You seem to be projecting some serious animosity against those who are doing little things to shake the bird cage.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I'm pointing out that the "little things" don't actually shake the bird cage. At best they just make some noise.

    Besides, shaking the bird cage only annoys or maybe hurts the birds. You need to open the door to actually free them from the cage.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Dismissing the average person doing small things is incredibly disingenuous of you, let alone anyone, to believe.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    I'm hoping it motivates people to do more, if they truly believe in effecting change.
    I don't expect them to like me for it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Affecting change*. If you're gonna criticize people from doing little things to shake up the system at least be literate.

    Some people can't do more. Some people don't have the means to do more. People on disability don't have the financial means to do more. So little things like spending less at mega corps vs supporting local is a little thing they can do. I won't expect someone with severe PTSD who is on permanent disability like my actual partner is from trying to start a unionized business. But they can certainly try and spend less at the major grocery corporations.

    But I'm curious. What are you doing to change society, other than vomiting bullshit on the Internet and claiming the high ground?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I'm not criticizing people for doing little things.
    I'm criticizing people for over inflating those little things. I'm criticizing people for telling themselves and others, those little things are going to "shake the system".

    Also
    Affect vs Effect

    Effect can be a verb. As a verb, effect generally means "to cause to come into being" or "accomplish."

    the strike effected change within the company

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  • [–] 28 points 1 month ago* (13 children)

    When making something nice I would buy the ingredients from local independents where I can. I can almost see the farm I get cheese and garlic from on a clear day but there is a hill in the way.

    Its also risky though, they sell fucking massive slabs of halloumi style cheese. Its a lot of money but also a lot of cheese.

    Can't do it for every ingredient with every recipe, but I am fed up of the just give up attitude I often hear simply because something isn't 100% perfect in every way and using that as a reason to not even try. So I do what I reasonably can.

    Also, ingredients are cheaper than a fast food place. Better quality too.

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  • [+] -17 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    Like I said, it makes you feel better, that's fine.
    But don't pretend it's fighting the fight. Though if you don't pretend, it may not make you feel better.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    Other than refusing to consume, what do you suggest doing that will achieve more and is easy for most people to do?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (10 children)

    Organizing, protesting, voting and voter registration drives, marketing and coms. Even starting a union owned business, or something similar. Those kinds of things make a difference. Individual purchasing decisions don't.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Many of those are much more difficult for most people to do, are of questionable benefit or they already do.

    Refuse to give them money, it is the only language they understand.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

    If you play the "vote with your wallet" game, the biggest wallet wins.
    Who's wallet is bigger?

    Also, no battle worth fighting has ever been easy. You should let go of that idea.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    If I vote with my wallet and stop buying pizza. And I get my friends to do the same. And they get their friends to do the same. Then I don’t think it really matters the size of the wallet. Are billos suddenly going to start buying up all the pizza to make up for it? I doubt it.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Now you're organizing, like I suggested. But as you said that's very difficult. And that's even the more difficult goal to organise around.

    Part of the fossil fuel play book in the 80's and 90's, was the idea of the "Individual Carbon Footprint'. They created that idea, specifically to shift the burden of climate change from them, to the consumer. They did so because they new the collective action need to make change that way, was far more difficult than pushing lawmakers to change the laws.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Is my message here not a part of organising?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    No. It's more marketing, and coms.
    Which is the least useful of the bunch. There's already plenty of that on social media. Organizing is action in the real world, not online.

    Or did you mean bringing friends over for home made pizza?
    That might be. If your helping them learn to cook for themselves, and teach others.
    But your phrasing didn't suggest the goal weas the pizza. It was just a choice you made for a gathering that was happening anyway.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Even starting a union owned business

    Hey everyone. You want to change society? Just start a business. Easy peesy! Don't make small changes in your life, make massive financial overhauls.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    That was just one, of a few suggestions.
    Obviously not everyone can start a business. Who will work at your business every everyone else started their own?

    But yah, if you want to make big changes fast, you need to make big moves.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Don't let perfect be in the way of better.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

    I'm not.
    I'm asking people to not treat better as the solution; They way they do with rent controls and school loan forgiveness. Buying locally is fine to do, for you in your life, but it has no effect on the larger problem. Too many people pretend it does.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 weeks ago (3 children)

    You're right, guess I'm just gonna give everyone hand jobs or are you going to tell me I need to build my own sex robot from scratch?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    Giving someone a hand job, is doing it from scratch.
    What's the sex bot for?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I do not like this. I would like it to stop please.

    Then do something. Why does someone else need to rattle the cage for you to break free? Why are Americans, who masturbate to the 2nd amendment, so afraid of taking back their country? There's 350 million of you, trillions of guns, and merely a few hundred of them. Start turning the streets red.

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  • [–] 116 points 1 month ago
    [–] 56 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    As a top 1 percenter, I feel seriously offended by the suggestion that I'd sit anywhere close peasants, let alone at the same table.

    /s obviously, because I wouldn't be on lemmy if I was anywhere close the top 1%

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  • [–] 29 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    Actually the top 1% in the US is ~600k per year. It's a lot of cash but not entirely outside the realm of possibility for some extremely senior software architect/manager combo at some VC startup, which is also within the lemmy target audience.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    ~600k per year

    Why are you using income? It's wealth that matters and that's a ~$16M cutoff.

    To reach that you'd need to be earning ~600k per year for 2-3 decades, to invest the majority of it, and to get absurd stock returns on top of that.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 weeks ago* (2 children)

    Which is still, just insane to think about.

    Like holy crap I can hardly imagine seeing 4 dollar-digits of liquidity in my account. In my lifetime, and I think I work hard in a role in society like anybody else.

    Something like that would require the most unlikely of windfalls. To think there's people out there, somewhat "commonly", going "Hmmm yerrs, let's put $20k into these stonks. Indeeed..."

    ...and then they reap returns, and go on and start businesses with "risk" (but not much, proportionally) and then publish books about "quitting the rat race and following your dreams."

    And they might be a few zip codes away from me. It's nuts to me. Incomprehensible, really. Just...damn.

    I don't wanna be rich, that sounds awful. I just wanna stop forever bracing against the next inevitable-but-untimeable calamity that threatens to throw us all out on the street.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Like holy crap I can hardly imagine seeing 4 dollar-digits of liquidity in my account. In my lifetime, and I think I work hard in a role in society like anybody else.

    What do you mean by 4 dollar-digits of liquidity? Like $1000? That feels a bit low unless you're in a country where the yearly income is 1-2K.

    …and then they reap returns, and go on and start businesses with “risk” (but not much, proportionally) and then publish books about “quitting the rat race and following your dreams.”

    It's even lower than you'd think. The cutoff for basically never needing to work again in your life is around $1M so top 18% of the US. At that point as long as you're willing to live off 30-40K and invest in index funds statistically you'll only ever get wealthier. (at least historically for the last several decades)

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    Haha yeah sorry I was struggling to convey that properly. US American here.

    Like, after the paycheck comes in, and we pay all the bills, yeah having some 1000's just left over to decide what to do with would be quite cushy.

    We're a couple that both work decently paying part times. Living with family makes that possible, but unavoidable debts (and climbing insurance rates) the last few years balanced it out.

    So I mean, we live comfortably and we're materially content. But also times are really scary where another 2008 could hit us real bad.

    So it's still weird imagining people just having lots of padding floating around. Lol

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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Yeah but they would never admit to being a 1%er here if they know what's good for them.

    And besides, nowadays the real oligarchs are 0.1%ers or even 0.01%ers.

    1%ers at this point are literally just the higher end of the upper-middle class...

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I gather this is roughly true wrt income (other estimates place this closer to 750k per household), but not wealth (which i believe is ~14 million to be in the top 1% in the US). Note that this income estimate does not include unrealized capital gains and that a 10% return on a 14 million portfolio is 1.4 million per year in passive income.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Most people in the lower 50% believe that anyone that has any money, especially $1M+ is part of the 1%. The complete lack of understanding of income and wealth escalation in the last couple decades is what keeps many people voting against their own interests. Many $1M-aires believe that with the right government policy and lower taxes, always lower taxes, they would quickly become part of the 1% and be "just like Musk". They believe that the system that aides and abets billionaires would equally benefit themselves and cannot see that they are part of the riff raff, the same as a homeless person, in the eyes of the billionaire class.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I like "this is not a joke". I really appreciate anybody trying to put into perspective how insanely unequal things are by using real numbers where possible.

    The problem is that things are so unequal that it's just about impossible to illustrate. For example, the "Top 1%" label is perfectly accurate, but doesn't illustrate both how small and also how large the top 1% is. 1% is still 3.5 million people, which is large. It isn't just Bezos and Musk. It's also guys who own car dealerships.

    OTOH, it's also small. There are 4 people in that illustration, and the "top 1%" should really be 1 guy in a room of 100.

    It's also hard to remember that the "lower 50%" isn't just "the poors". It's literally half the people in the country. It's not 1 guy at a table with 4 people who is only getting crumbs, it's half the people at that table getting crumbs. I would bet that at least 80% of Americans think they're richer than the bottom 50%.

    That's also without trying to deal with the issue of "1 billion dollars", which just isn't a number that people have much ability to picture. 1 billion feels like it's similar to "1 million", but it's not.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    It also doesn't do anything to show the scale in the top 1%. There is more difference from the top and bottom of that single percentage than there is in the entire pizza and crumbs.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago

    Yeah. The difference between the net worth of Elon Musk and of Gary Tharaldson is basically Elon Musk's entire net worth. And, Gary Tharaldson is a billionaire and the richest person in North Dakota.

    The "merely multi-millionaires" are still a problem. Their wealth corrupts the democratic system. But, it isn't as dangerous as Musk's or Bezos's power.

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  • [–] 76 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Financial obesity is neurotoxic, an existential threat to any society that tolerates it, and needs to cease being celebrated, rewarded, and positioned as an aspirational goal.

    Corporations are the only ‘persons’ which should be subjected to capital punishment, but trillionaires should be forced to transition into billionaires, and billionaires should be euthanised through taxation.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    billionaires should be euthanised through taxation.

    I may be willing to accept other more straightforward methods.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    How about a different kinda slicing?

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  • [+] -6 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    Americans let children die in schools to gun violence for decades just so they can uphold the 2nd amendment which by definition doesn't even guarantee access to guns to common civilians, but hide in the corner when their way of life is being taken away from them day by day because "They have guns too and I'm a pussy".

    The USA is 350 million fucking cowards, and they deserve what is happening.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    …says someone who laments gun violence while encouraging gun violence.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    If America actually had a civil war this person would write off everyone involved as “toxic and obsessed with violence.” I’ve dealt with folks like this before; they just want to differentiate themselves from Americans so that they can feel safe from what’s happening in America, and like it won’t happen to them. Really not too different from any other kind of victim blaming

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  • [–] 1 point 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    Nothing they said advocated gun violence.

    They might have meant a peaceful shutdown.

    They said the population is cowed, to put it more nicely. They’re correct.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 27 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    Yes and the middle class who think they have money keep voting for this.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago

    In my experience the difference in voting is really between the educated class and the uneducated class. Educated people are tend to be left wing. Uneducated people tend to be right wing. I'm pretty sure the data bears that out.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    This is well studied in "capital and ideology". Over the last 40 years in usa, euorpe educated tend to vote left, wealth votes right, which is a switch from how it used to be.

    However it seems like at least in usa there isn't that much difference between left and right when it comes to taxing wealth. Hence the steep rise in inequity since regan

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  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago (6 children)

    During the Reagan era, lobbyists were allowed back into Washington, and officials on both sides (or non-partisan) were quickly captured.

    Paul Krugman has a great comment about it. Paraphrased, politicians tend to listen more to well-dressed, well spoken lobbyists than they do nerdy economists.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

    He cut taxes for the wealthy by enormous amounts

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  • [–] 1 point 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    It’s hurt America more then we’ll ever know. Trickle down economics isn’t it when your top 1% is super greedy

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  • [–] 2 points 4 weeks ago

    In elementary school history, I learned supply-side (trickle down) economics came from Taft, and they failed spectacularly then. I think the only reason it comes back is because it gets resurrected by the owner class, as a justification to break the 3conomy in their favor.

    Seriously, the only reason to not have a dictatorship it to make societies more public serving. We really need to start recognizing government capture efforts and capitulation are nothing short ot treason, aiding and giving comfort to enemies of the people and state.

    Perhaps the survivors will figure it out.

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  • [–] 22 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Capitalism is just feudalism with more math.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

    Maybe what MAGA could realize is that america was great when income inequality was more in-check.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    Bringing angry MAGA folks to this conclusion would be a huge win for pretty much everyone.

    We need blue collar union solidarity to come back, and bring with it safe reasonable high quality work on worthwhile things for our neighbors, compensated fairly.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Defunded education, 24-hour Fox "news" coverage, and literal armies of sock puppet accounts are what you're up against.

    The billionaires have taken over social media so they can fabricate their own reality using millions of fake voices and thousands of hours of emotional response conditioning.

    What's your plan to fight against that?

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  • [–] 14 points 4 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Conservatives insist this is the only way. As long as conservatives exist, the normal people will never be permitted to regulate capitalism or charge billionaires with crimes.

    We must delete the foot-soldiers to defeat the billionaire class.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    The due date for the Epstein class’s execution is way overdue

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Aside from the imagery of the share of the pizza, I appreciate the detail of the lower 50% not even having "a seat at the table" :/

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