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[–] 103 points 1 month ago (12 children)

I live in very, very rural France. Country-wide protests are happening because high-school students demand better... Well, better everything.

Yesterday I carpooled with my kid's teacher to protest in the "biggest" town (pop. 9,000) in the county. 700 people marched. Some drove over 60 miles one way to be there, when gas costs 2,35€ a liter.
In the past week two kids lost an eye, one an arm, one their lower jaw, because of police violence. (The eyes might not be beyond saving, I'm not sure.) Even middle-schoolers fight with their parents to be allowed to protest.

Country-wide headcount was 400,000. Our tiny march, every tiny local march did its part.
And that was a weekday, small protest. Saturday after next is a big one.
I'm really proud of the kids.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    and that is the same country that wanted to ban social media for minors because social media was harming minors? huh, I do think something is indeed harming French minors, but I don't think it's social media!

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Social media is definitely harming minors, just like it is harming everyone else.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    … wrote someone on a social media site.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago

    Corporate social media with algorithms designed to make addicts out of users and force propaganda down their throats is different than decentralized social media where people have control of what they consume while they are on it.

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  • [–] 46 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    The country didn't want that. The president and his cronies do, as an excuse to amplify mass surveillance.
    The same president we're protesting against.

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  • [–] 47 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I remember hearing about French firefighters getting geared up, setting themselves on fire, and running at riot police lol.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Kids told about thursdays riots here in Bordeaux where the firefighters came and put out the burning trashcans etc, but they also cheered the protesters on!

    Same side 😘!

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago

    My kid's teachers: "I can't help you build barricades in front of the school. I'm legally bound to teach my scheduled classes. It would be such a pity if your barricades were already built tomorrow before 7am, and I physically couldn't get inside. Or would 7.30 be better for y'all?"

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  • [–] 171 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (39 children)

    American government: we're deporting your friends and neighbors to third countries, burning your crops, poisoning your water supply, and delivering a plague unto your houses

    Americans: What?! You can't do that! I'm going to write angry social media posts and participate in a quickly-forgotten weekend protest that disrupts little to nothing! Not this weekend though, I have work in the morning.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    For the home of the brave there sure ain't much wide spread bravery

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  • [–] 32 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Because all the braves are gone. That was like, job one.

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  • [–] 102 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    ...and also re-elect you because the other guy said he'd make housing more affordable for everyone

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (27 children)

    I think that this is part of the issue.

    Protesting doesn't really work in the US. And these days you're likely to get shot or end up in an internment camp. The US is setup to get you in jail anyway so you can be slave labour. And the states are really not United. It's a moot point, everyone likes to have someone else to blame. I mean I'll get down voted if I say Europe and the rest of the world is also to blame for buying military equipment from the US. I'll rephrase that; if people didn't buy arms from the US then we maybe could do something since the military industrial complex partially runs this country.

    The only form of protest that works here is anything financial related. Even then. If you're considered "essential" then straight to jail. Look back at the railway protests; even just glance at the abhorrent work conditions.

    https://therealnews.com/railroad-workers-speak-out-after-congress-and-biden-block-rail-strike

    You don't have to read it; this is basically a summary "‘Without freight rail many US industries would literally shut down,’ Mr. Biden said before signing the bill" so get bent and go back to work.

    And then there's also: "Public employees shall not have the right to strike" and this means potential jail time and I wouldn't be surprised of future instances where you end up in jail and are forced to do your job anyway.

    A coal mine strike in the past resulted in the national guard shooting them down.

    So basically everyone is fed propaganda, locally and overseas, but the reality is gloom. People are getting learned helplessness. Been trying to make a difference for almost 20 years.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 month ago* (22 children)

    Replace your map with a population map. There's a lot of Frances there that don't need to be there.

    Place 3 or 4 Frances and you're good. Really just shut down LA and NYC.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    You make a valid point. I was using the picture to show the size overall. Places like NY and Cali are where the most aggressive capitalists are; these are the people taking advantage of everyone. They are the people that feed off the system.

    California, Texas, New York, and Florida are basically the major population of the US. Those white and light pink areas hold as much power as the most densely populated areas. At a glance you can see that 7 states so 14/100 votes are practically... for a handful of people.

    And look at it this way, where you see the dark red areas; that's the capitalistic hubs.

    Top left corner, that's Seattle in Washington state. That's where Valve is (Steam) whom announced 1.7 billion in sales in September. There's plenty of people living in those areas that go against the overall welfare of the general public, by voting and by bribing. The rich fucks were really salty about the new additional tax they have to pay.

    So what I'm trying to say is these people that are making 250k, 500k, multi millions, billions are going to fight against any change.

    The only thing that's left is to hurt them where it hurts most, finance. That's why I wrote about the railway strike. Honestly, after reading what the work is like, they should have quit; but then they would likely face a gun to their head and get told to go back to work.

    We're dealing with a new era of bourgeoisie that have armed guards and bunkers and politicians in their pockets. Seems like they learned from historical events.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    Those white and light pink areas hold as much power as the most densely populated areas.

    Not exactly, in the Senate every state gets 2 votes. The presidential vote and house are weighted to population.

    The issue is both of those based on population were capped, so the less populated states get a vote that counts more than the most populated areas. So Wyoming has 1 vote in the house for a population of 580,000 and California has 52 for 39.4 million people.

    If these reps were concerned about their home state maybe this would work, but it's all national party politics now.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    "Not exactly, in the Senate every state gets 2 votes. The presidential vote and house are weighted to population."

    I phrased that poorly but that's roughly what I meant; it was easier to say than look at the states with the low population counts. It doesn't matter how many candidates are in the house if a fifth can shut down any progress. It seems like often, the unpopular vote is the what we get. And no way to do anything about politicians that say one thing and do another.

    "If these reps were concerned about their home state maybe this would work, but it’s all national party politics now."

    This is why all of this sucks. What we're shown and what the world sees is political theatre. They go behind closed doors and amicably negotiate. A politician that called this out, I haven't seen another video or anything from him in two years.

    People love to shit on the US like we can actually do anything but only base it on what they see on regulated media.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Yeah there are 5 states with less people than Columbus, Ohio, the city, not the metro area. There are 24 states with less people than the Detroit metro area, which is entirely located in Michigan. These aren't places people associate with huge numbers of people, it's not like the NYC metro area that's more populated than 47 states including New York and contains geographically large portions of Connecticut and New Jersey.

    And yeah part of the issue is that some of the tiny states are among the originals. Vermont (49 in population, with less people than the city of Washington DC), while not in the original 13 fought in the American revolution and was the 14th state. Delaware and Rhode Island are between the Dakotas and Montana in population. And while some states could comfortably be broken up into more reasonable chunks, like California, Texas, and Ohio, others like Illinois and New York have a massive population solely because they have one massive city.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (17 children)

    The thing is, the US is so big that even once you account for the few biggest ones, all the rest of the states in the top 10 each have a population as big as something like Belgium, Portugal, Sweden, or Greece.

    Those aren't additional Frances, granted, but still pretty significant.

    You'd need about 5 Frances just to cover the population, ignoring the area.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (16 children)

    Yeah but Portugal or Greece can't prevent France from functioning properly or force federal laws unto it, can they.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    More the other way round during the last sovereign debt crisis.

    Ironically it's France that's now drowning in debt.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (8 children)

    True, but that came mostly from being in a beggar's shoes and not so much from how the EU political system is structured, though it's not like there isn't any overlap....

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Nah, that came from being hogtied by the Euro.

    Both Portugal and Greece used to "solve" (temporarily, of course) such problem when they had their own currencies by changing the interest rates to essentially inflate away the excess debt, something that they can't do in the Euro.

    In fact, if you look at for example the history of GDP Growth in Portugal, you see a huge increase in growth after the 1974 revolution (which replaced Fascism with Democracy), then another increase when the country joined the EU and then a steep decrease down to levels barely above those during Fascism when the Euro came to be.

    Those countries gave away their control over their monetary policy and thus when push came to shove the big countries fucked them up spare large banks from those countries having to suffer the consequences of lending money at stupidly low interest rates to countries whose economies and economic and fiscal policies did not justify it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Giving up on having a Central Bank has consequences, but none of them are relevant in the context of comparison with US states, as this thread started from, because they also all use the dollar and have the same central bank.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    If I'm not mistaken, in the US there are money flows at the Federal level from the stronger economies to the weaker ones.

    There is no such thing in the EU beyond the "structural funds" which countries with weaker economies receive when they join but which stop after a while (and which both Portugal and Greece wasted in roads and corruption).

    So those two situations are not the same, they're only partially similar.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    EU austerity was enforced though. That's no different from federal law

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    That statement is just too vague to address.

    You mean the growth and stability pact? That puts caps on deficit and debt, and would force austerity measures, but had been repeatedly broken, notably by Germany and France in the early 2000s, with no punishments, so it's a very week mechanism at this point.

    The Greek and Portuguese bailouts were negotiated with the "Troika" of the European Central Bank, European Commission and the International Monetary Fund. These weren't part of EU law at all, but a consequence of the absolute failure of the stability mechanisms and a widespread fear that defaults would drag a bunch of other countries along and cause massive economic turmoil - remember that this is in the follow up to the 2008 crisis.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    Six-Pack, Two-Pack, and the 2012 Fiscal Compact (Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance)

    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX%3A52012DC0342

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  • [–] -3 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Ever heard of EU veto/unanimity rules? Look what Hungary did.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

    That's not forcing rules on France now is it?

    Let me expand on that: unanimity is required for stuff like EU foreign policy and some other sensitive areas, but many things require a qualified majority, not unanimity.

    The US goes about it very differently, they wildly misrepresent the Senate, and this spills into other areas like the electoral college or judge appointments, subverting the whole thing.

    What the "fixed map with less Frances" aims to show is exactly this, that the US gives small states disproportionate power over everyone, since a minority of the population can control the Senate and, through it, federal legislation and judicial appointments, let alone the presidency.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (3 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Part of the problem there is the signing of the bill actually prevented the strike... The point of a strike is that can't fire everyone... And similarly, they can't send everyone to jail...

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    This is a load of bollocks, I mean, look at the historical US protests like the civil rights movement, anti-Vietnam War protests, suffrage campaigns - all of them changed policies.

    What changes nothing is sitting on your ass making up reasons to stay inside.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Heh I actually almost went to Kent State cause my brother did. Kent read, Kent write, Kent State! Sorry, it's a local joke if you lived around there. I actually walked the field when I did tour.

    I've done my time. At this point, I'm not able bodied. So sitting on my ass and convey a message is all I can do. Not everyone is making up shit.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    100%. It makes more sense when you understand that the only intended outcome of Americans’ protests is to reassure the do-nothing cowards participating that they’re “the good ones.” Protesting isn’t a means to an end- protesting is an end in itself, if you’re a fuckin’ clown.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 month ago

    Riot is in our culture ! We learn it at school !

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Wish the rest of the world was more like the French. We'd be able to achieve so much change.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    It is definitely a sign that humanity likes to kick itself in the nuts when even a country known for protesting still has a government that keeps doing shit that leads to protest and police still harm protestors.

    We keep putting shitty people in power and then getting upset when they do shitty stuff.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago*

    It's almost as if there is something else at play, someone else to blame, than "the people" who just everywhere all the time seem to "accidentally platform" leaders who don't have their best interests at heart.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Their political activity is remarkable. It is the kind of activity every country needs. Only problem i see is that french activists put the most effort into protests instead of more effective ways of spreading their ideas.

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  • [–] 49 points 1 month ago (17 children)

    They really do. 3 years ago my daughter was getting ready to take a school trip to France when protests broke out over something. I was worried about the trip and ended up learning a lot about how France protests. Here are some things I learned:

    Protesting is considered important and this is taught to kids in school.

    It's often a family affair, grab the whole family and go protest.

    Protests are a happy, party-like environment with music and vendors selling food to protestors.

    Leaders actually listen to some.extent.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    American version:

    Protesting is a right, taught in school.

    Grab family, go to protest.

    Protest turns violent because of hidden cops. Mom gets shot. Dad loses job. Family loses house.

    Die.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    "Protesting is a right and everything great we have comes from it, but you will be tear gassed and condemned if you try"

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    2028 you get black bagged by ICE for the crime of thinking about planning a protest

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Leaders actually listen to some.extent.

    Do they? I haven't seem a lot of meaningful changes in France due to protests in the last 10-20 years. Perhaps you have a list of them that a directly due to protests? It seems like the ruling class, leadership and in general regular people just ignore protests as 'part of life'.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    They do listen to some extent. Not always, obviously, but saying protests are basically useless is just wrong. The CPE was scrapped after protests in 2006, the écotaxe was abandoned after the Bonnets Rouges protests, the fuel tax increase was cancelled after the Yellow Vests, and the government backed down on several measures after the 2024 farmers' protests. You can argue protests do not always succeed, but pretending they achieve nothing just ignores what actually happened.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Leaders actually listen to some.extent.

    in the US* No, I have to say this one and I'm not trying to sound any kind of way about this but it's a little true: Is that the action that comes from anyone in power after a protest comes from fear. That it goes from peaceful discourse to actions that can range and vary.....Though I suppose one could equate it to the rebel-terrorist fighting. ..... The people of the US fighting for their voices to be heard are the rebels and the oppressive terrorist government that couldn't give two shits less, except for furthering their dictatorial agendas

    Personally,I stay home because I don't want to die and I watch videos of protests and see where it can lead and I'm like fuck that!!!! I want to go to some of them when I read where they are because I stand with more and more causes after informing myself of current events after being a skeptic but I voice my opinions online.

    It's sadly the fact that protesting can in some odd way by definition be considered a terrorist act once turned violent and that I believe that, "leaders," turn the police on people during protests and sadly the terrorist government is making is so that they're allowed to use fear tactics to suppress protests.

    There's no direct, "winning."

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago*

    In the Netherlands we got all cuts for social services off the table by the left parties working together with working unions who striked untill we got our way :3

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    I mean, right now there are students protests in France.

    One student had his hand blown off by a police grenade launcher, and something like 50 officers were injured.

    They don't fuck around

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    His hand was because he picked up a flash grenade to try and throw it back. But yeah, the current protests are rough. A few thousand people detained and a few hundred officers injured last I heard iirc.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    So? What was a flash grenade doing on the ground for him to pick up in the first place?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    What the fuck do I care? All I'm saying is what happened. I'm not here trying to argue anything other than correcting that his hand wasn't "blown off by a grenade launcher".

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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago

    And then the Brits hang this poster on their windows unironically

    poster with the British world war 2 slogan "Keep Calm and Carry On" in white on a red background with the british crown symbol in white above

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    One thing I love about France is how they number their republics. This is now the fifth one. Some people are talking about abolishing it for a sixth. So, even Constitutional authority is subject to occasional "fuck this shit we can do better", and the idea of abolishing the Constitution of the Fifth Republic for a better one is nowhere near treasonous but honest democratic-republican politics. Compare that with the American dysfunction of having a document written 200 years ago as a snapshot of an expedient compromise between fops being vested with semi-divine aura.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Maybe republics don't work. Maybe it just creates a permanent, insufficiently accountable, political class that has to sell out the people to retain power.

    My solution, and you are going to laugh, Switzerland. You should be laughing because Switzerland is labeled a republic. But it's not a pure republic. It has significantly more direct democracy. The mechanisms provided by a republic alone just don't do the thing they are labeled as doing. It doesn't give you politicians that are accountable to you. It just doesn't.

    Or maybe we should just let Switzerland expand slowly into France. Not by war. But by recognizing a better model is worth growing. And France shouldn't feel threatened by it. If the politicians represented the people they should be happy for every French that finds himself with a better life on the other side of a border. Richer too because property value will go up the second the line moves. But politicians don't care about the people. They seek power. And loss of land is fewer people to have power over. So they would throw a fit. But that fit would only prove the point that those politicians don't have your interests, so it's proof the boarder should move.

    Let's grow Switzerland by 3% a year, as long as it has higher quality of life associated with it and is growing a smaller country into a large one. That creates competition that would actually incentive politicians. It would end up being a self-failing prophecy. France would improve with better incentives, tying what politicians want (authority) to what we want (better lives). And then it would stop being necessary. Then people can go back to lying to themselves about pure republics working.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Republics were a hugely progressive idea... for the 1700s. Enormous compromises are built in from an era when the fastest a message could travel was by horse and implementing any manner of direct democracy on a national scale would have been impossible. Nowadays, though, it would be trivial.

    Except of course for all those old white men already in power, who like the old game because it's easier to tilt in their favor.

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