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[–] 82 points 1 year ago (24 children)

In the 19th century all kinds of “snake oil” mixtures were sold as pain killers and energy tonics. The vast majority were just something suspended in alcohol. Alcohol dulls pain and makes you feel a rush of euphoria. So people thought it was “medicine.”

It continues to this day. My wife was convinced that a certain kombucha was benefitting her gut microbiome in some profound way because it made her feel so great to drink it. Turns out the brand got in trouble - their process was letting through 1.5-2% alcohol (yes my wife is a lightweight).

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    We like to talk about drugs like there's this clear delineation between something that is and isn't medicine... but it really comes down to the situation and the dosage.

    For much of history and in most places, liquor was the most effective painkiller available. More recently, fentanyl started as a synthetic, medical grade painkiller. It's still widely used across hospitals for that. Before synthetics, it was opium (otherwise known as heroin), derived from poppy plants.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Heroin is made from opium. It's not the same.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    It’s derived from petrochemicals but it works on the same receptors. And 50 years ago people were screeching about heroin, a completely unnatural man made synthesized drug far more potent than opium (which is roughly 10% morphine, heroin being around 2-3x stronger than pure morphine), in much the same way they are screeching about fentanyl now. “It’s a scourge, it kills people, it’s destructive” etc

    All of those things can be true and fentanyl is absolutely far more dangerous given its potency (though giving someone with 0 opioid tolerance heroin isn’t necessarily safe either).

    The real enemy is addiction, and the real real enemy there is a lack of resources and empathy. A lack of supports, a lack of housing, a lack of meaningful jobs and supportive welfare, a lack of healthcare, a lack of a society that doesn’t focus on punitive incarceration efforts over rehabilitative treatment and equitable respect

    But keep focusing on the fentanyl boogeyman. Or tranq. That’s the problem. Just get that off the streets and it’ll all go away

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    A lot of people got sold what they thought were prescription pain pills, but were actually fentanyl. Some died the first time they took. No amount of empathy is solving that, you need the drug and dealers off the streets.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    The real enemy is addiction

    With Fentanyl it’s different. It can be lethal the first time you try it. We might say addiction is one problem but lack of regulation and predictability in dosage is also a problem. Much of what’s dangerous about illicit drugs is not knowing quite what you are getting.

    Heroin addiction can also be immediate, so I’d say the mere availability of the drug is a problem. It’s not just that sometimes an addiction develops and then there’s a problem.

    I agree with most of what you said, just not this one part. It’s an antiquated point of view from rosier times with less dangerous drugs on the street.

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  • addiction is never, ever immediate. dependency is only one part of addiction.

    ragebutt is pretty on point here. you are correct though that the lethality of fentanyl is unique and does pose a significant problem in our society. i don't think ragebutt is giving that enough credit.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Heroin can be lethal the first time you try it. People were dying of opioids because of heroin long before fentanyl was on the streets and people were dying from oxycontin too.

    Does fentanyl kill more? Yes, because again I am not disagreeing that it is far more powerful, that there are scumbags who mislabel supply or purposely adulterate drugs to make them seem more potent, etc

    I’d just argue that your point of view is a war on drugs bullshit take that only started to give a shit about the addiction crisis once vice and youtube dummies starting making fentanyl a buzzword. It’s overly myopic and ignores the systemic factors that drive people to use.

    So you regulate supply. Then what? Fentanyl is already regulated. It still doesn’t address the fact that 95% of the people on the streets in Kensington are seen as utter trash and society is waiting for them to die. It still doesn’t address that someone on their way to that place has no real support if they don’t come from a rich family (and honestly even then it’s not great?)

    I do absolutely agree with you that safe access to regulated drugs is absolutely necessary. If addicts could get pharmaceutical grade heroin, fentanyl, cocaine, etc it would ensure safe reliable dosing in a monitored site that could support overdose if it occurs (remember that overdoses are not inherently fatal), it would essentially completely disarm the cartels (unless they fully shift to avocados or whatever), and it would allow you to regularly connect with addicts to encourage treatment and connect with resources like housing and welfare

    But whenever these programs get trialed (just the clean needle stuff, no way the dea lets the drug part happen) the conservatives go nuts and the libs let out their inner NIMBY conservative so they get their funding cut and often shut down, even when data supports their existence

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Okay, keep vilifying substances instead of systemic issues because someone wasn’t kind enough about it

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I will note that I did not personally attack you, I did say that your point of view is bullshit and based on fearmongering, but you’re the one that has taken this to personal attacks and name calling.

    Attack ideas, not people

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Gaslighting rejected. This is a personal attack:

    your point of view is a war on drugs bullshit take that only started to give a shit about the addiction crisis once vice and youtube dummies starting making fentanyl a buzzword.

    You said my point of view is just parroting social media influencers. Where in this is any discussion of ideas? You’re calling me a thoughtless buzzword regurgitator. What the fuck do you know? This was totally unnecessary and uncalled for.

    Your little lecture here is just you trying to make it to the door with your dignity after you damn well know you overstepped and behaved like an asshole. This is the refuge of someone who cannot be accountable for their own behavior, and I have no ideas to exchange with a child like that, who slings barbs and then lectures about ideas. You have your orders and I expect you to carry them out.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Respectfully disagreed but it appears we are at an impasse. The discussion of ideas was in the rest of the post that you apparently refused to read per your own words. I point out the documentaries not because I think you got your ideas from them (maybe you did, I don’t know) but because that is what has popularized the villainization of fentanyl (which is why I literally said that and did not say that you got your ideas from them). Nice job ascribing motive and intentionality to my words to portray me as a villain. I don’t have a fun pop psychology word for this though

    My final attempt to expand upon this will be to say that your rhetoric of focusing on fentanyl as a big spooky drug and pouring more resources into an endless fight of prohibition, which has been attempted and is literally already the policy, is foolish. I apparently have to put on kid gloves here and say that I do not necessarily think that you are dumb because I am attacking your position, because you apparently cannot differentiate someone attacking your stance between someone attacking your intellect

    The idea of continued focus on fentanyl prohibition is the policy of people who are invested in perpetuating systems of oppression and preventing systemic change. Drug addiction is vile and most people hide away from it. I know because I have worked in rehab centers, mobile therapy, and homeless outreach. But it makes for salacious content and easy views, and by extensions makes for easy “quick fix” political solutions. “Why are these people on the street?” “Fentanyl” “well we should do something about that!” It is a stupid and short sighted way to approach the issue that we have tried time and time and time and time again, only to fail miserably.

    This is why I do not simply ignore you. Your rhetoric is frustrating and sets us back. It enables our political leaders to deflect onto “the fentanyl menace” rather than address the underlying societal rot that creates unsafe use and cycles of addiction. It further stigmatizes use. All the bad things

    Also please dont ever get surgery bc fyi they will 100% give you spooooky fentanyl, sometimes in fairly heroic doses relative to recreational dosages. I promise you wont get instantly addicted or die.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No. Heroin is made from opium. From poppies. This has geo-political importance. Fentanyl is fully synthetic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin?wprov=sfla1

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Yes I’m aware. fentanyl (it’s in my post) is derived from petrochemicals but still acts on the opioid system. The whole “being derived from petrochemicals” thing is what makes it “fully synthetic” which is just a creepy spooky nonsense weasel word that anti science nutjobs use to promote shit like anti vaccination. The fact that it is synthetically derived doesn’t make it any more or less dangerous, the fact that it’s significantly more potent does, but even with that to an experienced user it’s just a far more intense heroin, which is similar to how heroin is a far more intense morphine

    Tbf I could’ve probably used the noun instead of “it’s” but I feel like the context is pretty clear if you read past the first sentence

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Aww. I like their stuff. But I didn't get to have more alchy fun! I started trying theirs out like 5 years ago.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Funnily enough I think now they sell a “hard” version that’s something like 1.5% so you can actually go have that fun! They’re just doing it legally now, with all proper labeling and licensing.

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  • [–] 153 points 1 year ago (34 children)

    For the non-Americans in the audience, what is White Claws?

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  • [–] 157 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Soda water with vodka and a homeopathic amount of fruity flavoring

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I keep seeing people make fun of it online but that sounds like something I’d enjoy. My drink of choice for a few years now has been the depressing combination of whatever carbonated water is available with whatever better-than-rotgut-but-only-just vodka is available.

    Rotgut-tier is also fine in a pinch. But the bad stuff here will make you blind.

    (I’m also a fan of “give me your sweetest, fruitiest, girliest drink”, which was great fun back in uni when all the dudes around me were ordering bitter beverages they clearly didn’t enjoy. By trying to project masculinity to the girls around us, they were actually betraying an underlying insecurity about it - and by ordering my girly drink I was gently lampshading that idea. Fun times.)

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    They're delightful. I personally prefer whiskey and when I want carbonated alcohol I tend towards a beer or a bourbon spritzer (or it's wine sibling), but they're easy and refreshing.

    And yeah, as a chick who likes neat bourbon, it's amusing seeing men who are clearly uncomfortable with the fact that they don't like stuff like it. Like dude, just order what you like

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    If you’re drinking for a buzz, then that’s the best way. All the calories you’re getting are only from alcohol. If you drink other cocktails or beer/wine, you’re drinking a lot of sugar, which adds up over time.

    Source: my beer gut because I love the taste of craft beer

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I really enjoy a white claw or the various similar brands. I don't know what it is but if I drink a lot of those I have a "lighter" feeling of drunk. It feels nice, and I never get hungover from these drinks. I'm sure it's possible of course

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    White claw is a drink that comes in vaguely energy-drink looking cans, tastes bad (if it has any flavor at all), and has a slight alcohol content.

    In fairness, my opinion of flavor should be taken with a grain of salt (lol) because I really dislike the taste of alcohol and am honestly surprised anyone could drink even a low percentage without recognizing ethanol’s horrible flavor.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Huh, you may be surprised to hear, but I actually LIKE the taste of ethanol in many drinks.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Another thing that is relevant to my opinions on this topic: I don’t get drunk.

    My watch confirms that my heart rate and breathing are affected, but apart from the burn going down (and a headache if I drink more than a few shots), I feel no other effects. So unlike most people I don’t have the same source of positive associations with the taste.

    That being said, from a strictly flavor perspective, Jin isn’t horrible. Juniper is one of the few flavors that doesn’t clash with ethanol as much as others. Grapefruit also fits with the taste of alcohol pretty well, but apart from those… I think I’d rather a capri sun than a cocktail lol

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I wonder if you and I are similar. I wouldn't say I don't get drunk; if I drink enough I get all of the non-fun things like being unsteady on my feet, and I wouldn't be safe to drive. On the other hand, I don't get any of the fun things people talk about like being more relaxed, getting uninhibited, whatever a "buzz" is, etc.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    If I drink a lot I’ll also get slightly dizzy and like feel like my vision is slightly delayed, but I’m still able to keep my balance and focus. I’ll also sometimes get sick to my stomach, but food helps with that.

    But yeah I don’t get any positive effects either. No buzz, no happiness, no reduced inhibitions.

    Also turns out you and I aren’t the only people like this. Everytime I bring it up on lemmy some other person seems to comment that they feel the same.

    Do other drugs like weed or stimulants not work too? and are you ADHD?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I never really did much in the way of drugs. When I was a kid I was given morphine in the hospital, and that made me hallucinate like crazy. When dentists used to use Novocaine, they always had to give me twice as much as they normally would. I only tried pot once, (well, twice, a day or two apart) about a dozen years ago, and I didn't notice any effect.

    To my knowledge I'm not ADHD, though I'm not sure how I'd know if I was.

    How about you?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Ditto to the dentists and the weed. And I’ve not done any opiates that I can remember but my cousin, who is similar to me, said morphine did nothing for his broken leg but make him feel sick to his stomach so he just wouldn’t take it.

    I am ADHD. Methylphenidate (Ritalin) helped my focus but made me like physically anxious and sick to my stomach, amphetamine (adderall) typically feels like nothing though it helps with executive dysfunction and sometimes I feel cold or sleepy.

    The reason I asked is because some of the others who shared my sentiment about alcohol mentioned the same thing about weed and painkillers and had ADHD. Some of them also mentioned having red hair, but I don’t really fit that category.

    Not feeling the “high” of drugs does sound like it would be related to adhd since it would imply abnormalities in reward pathways in the brain, and from what I can tell, the weed and painkiller issues seem more like dysfunctional opioid receptors. Then again I’m not a doctor lol

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    That's all pretty interesting. I seem to have very little in the way of susceptibility to addiction, though sugar in general (and chocolate specifically) would be a big exception.

    I'm not super knowledgeable about ADHD, and because one thing I do know is that it happens on a spectrum, I suppose it's possible.

    Not redheaded.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Ha chocolate is the only thing I’d say I’m addicted to too lol. I have to force myself to take a supposedly addictive drug every morning, but the only thing I’d rather not go a day without is chocolate lol

    And yeah it’s a pretty broad spectrum. I’m a super quiet, reserved person in public, not really the type of person most think of when someone says ADHD.

    I didn’t get diagnosed until a year or two ago when I noticed that after drinking an energy drink I got all the tasks done I’d been putting off for months and was able to take a nap during the day lol

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I was eating truly obscene amounts of chocolate for a while there. I still eat more than most people, but not so extreme.

    When you got diagnosed, was it an "ah hah" moment?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    My family members have joked about being ADHD for my whole life since our conversations often go all over the place and we have focus/memory issues.

    So, not really an ah hah moment when I got diagnosed, but after getting medicated and realizing normal people can actually pay attention to and learn from lectures without needing to put in constant effort? Yeah that was a bit of an eye opening experience

    I also learned that there is a significant difference between laziness (not doing something because you don’t want to) and executive dysfunction (not doing something because your brain won’t let you even if you want to do it).

    The meds are a godsend, but I should note they don’t get rid of the ADHD they mostly just make it easier to manage.

    Oh yeah one other thing that was an ah hah moment was being able to make plans and lists and things and then just do them and remember I’ve made them. Honestly that’s probably the ability that’s changed my life most since I got medicated

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    "Hard seltzer." fruit scented fizz water with a little booze in it, marketed mainly to women.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    with a little booze in it

    I've never heard of this drink before, but I've looked it up and it's 5% ABV. That's not "a little" booze; that's the same as a premium beer.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I find it interesting to hear 5% ABV beer being described as "premium". Here (Canada) it's basically the standard for every macrobrew lager, or around 4% for their light varieties. More high-end, craft beers will vary between 3% and 10% depending on the type of beer.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's just old fashioned terminology. 4% was the strength of a standard bitter or lager, round about 5% a premium bitter or lager.

    The UK doesn't use the term "light beer", so you can probably just think of it as being the equivalent to that distinction.

    Obviously there are some wildly strong craft beers out there these days, but the lingo still is what it is.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    And confusingly in Australia 'Light' beer is low alcohol (~3.5%) and in the USA 'Light' is low-flavour. I think many australians have been caught off gaurd by going to the US and drinking bud light thinking 'these soda-water beers really go to your head'

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  • [+] 50 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    tell me how these weren't designed to give alcoholics plausible deniability lol

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Oh, I thought they were designed to give alcoholics heart attacks

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    In some sense it shows how beautiful this community is that I had to scroll all the way down here to find the "he knew" comment.

    All the rest are just supportive, like "I almost made the same mistake".

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  • [–] 77 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    If a 12 oz can at 5% ABV once per day makes you feel liver pain, there's probably something wrong with your liver, and maybe the drinking life isn't for you.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    It's fine, I'll just take more Tylenol to deal with the pain.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Just drink Painquil! It's acetaminophen, and it's 10% alcohol! The old liver double whammy.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Ain't no open container laws when you're drinkin' claws.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    It's not easy to tell the difference between a can of kombucha and a can of thc sparkling juice at first glance either. Both have similar designs.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    I can't tell if you're being serious or if you're leaning into the joke bc here in america they take all of the alcohol out of kombucha so both drinks would be intoxicating anywhere else

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Yes almost all the alcohol is removed from kombucha so it is not intoxicating.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    AFAIK that only happens in the US due to tax/age restriction reasons. https://youtu.be/7o2dILl8Fhc

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    Meanwhile I've seen thc as high as 50mg in a single can!

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Watched my boss drink one of those and a red bull at the same time. Regular thing for her apparently.

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