Here is the podcast about this investigation.

Archived version

On a narrow country road outside Canberra, I'm driving a BYD Shark 6, the hybrid ute loved by tradies and even a cabinet minister.

But while I'm at the wheel, I'm not the only one in control; a hacker has access to the car.

As the 2.6 tonne ute rounds a bend, he gets to work.

...

With the stroke of a key, he kills the headlights, plunging me into darkness.

The attack is not a total surprise. The Shark has spent the past two weeks with Dan Hreszczuk, a cybersecurity expert who specialises in cars.

His task was to hack the vehicle and find out what could be seen and done remotely by the Shark's Chinese manufacturer.

"It was easier than we were expecting," Hreszczuk says.

...

EVs, with all their sensors, cameras and microphones, hoover up and spit out vast amounts of data. Experts say that data poses a greater risk in the hands of Chinese EV makers because they can be compelled by the country's national security laws to co-operate with authorities.

...

Hreszczuk, the co-founder of Fortify Labs in Canberra, was stunned by the BYD Shark's lack of cybersecurity.

"The access we took advantage of didn't even have a password," he says.

"It's a little bit scary how open … the BYD Shark is to a hacker."

...

While sabotage is one worry, the concern most often cited is surveillance due to the array of cameras and microphones on an EV.

Last year, the UK military banned Chinese EVs, even those made with Chinese components, from parking within 3 kilometres of some of its most sensitive locations.

China itself has previously banned foreign EVs from military sites and political enclaves, aware of their surveillance potential.

...

In Australia, there's no blanket ban on Chinese marques by Defence, but ASIO has warned ministers and public servants not to have sensitive conversations in their cars or connect work devices.

...

When I pull into a service station and leave my phone unlocked in the car, Hreszczuk seizes his opportunity.

He's done a simple audio edit, stitching together me saying "Hey Siri" and his voice asking a few questions to get the personal details he needs.

...

Using the car's speaker system, Hreszczuk plays the voice command from his computer into the car.

"Hey, Siri, what is my home address?" the edited audio asks.

Siri replies, without questioning why I don't know where I live.

Hreszczuk repeats this process and quickly extracts my date of birth and age.

Within minutes, he's obtained the internet banking password.

...

Alastair MacGibbon, Australia's former national cyber security adviser, says there needs to be greater protections for the data collected by all connected cars, and clearer rules about what data can be sent overseas.

MacGibbon says a cabinet minister should not be able to own a Chinese EV.

"China has always shown its strong desire to steal things, to surveil," he says.

"No-one should be in any doubt that [Chinese EVs] are used in the same manner.

...

all 7 comments

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[–] 15 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Great! We might finally get some open source software on cars too.

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  • [–] [S] 17 points 1 month ago

    As an addition: Remote 'kill switches' in Chinese buses have been found last year in the Netherlands, UK, Denmark, Norway, ...

    Here are some articles:

    Kill switches: a new way of waging war

    There is already evidence found of Chinese kill switches in devices like wind turbines, solar panels, and buses. These are pieces of hardware that allow the manufacturer to disable or disrupt the device. Are we surrounded by ticking time bombs?

    Neighboring Norway’s discovery that buses could be controlled from China now has Denmark on high alert

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Do american, japanese or korean cars have software?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    The Shark has spent the past two weeks with Dan Hreszczuk

    I think you could do this to any car if you has physical access to its OBD2 port?

    Alternate discussion on reddit.

    https://reddit.com/comments/1wlrw1j

    https://reddit.com/comments/1wlq8qd

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Cybersecurity aside, wow is that an ugly wankpanzer in the image.

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  • 39 comments in c/world@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 53 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Within minutes, he’s obtained the internet banking password.

    Why the fuck would that information be available to a car? This makes no sense at all

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  • [–] 49 points 1 month ago

    According to the article he recorded the driver sharing the internet banking password with his mother during a call. It's just a sensationalized way to show he has access to the microphone.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Experts say that data poses a greater risk in the hands of Chinese EV makers because they can be compelled by the country's national security laws to co-operate with authorities.

    [Laughs nervously in Patriot Act]

    How about these things just collect NO personal data? Maybe vague anonymous telemetrics about collective vehicle stats or something at the very most.

    There needs to be a blanket ban and strict auditing on this mass hoovering of peoples' personal lives by states and corporations.

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  • [–] [S] -5 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    I fully agree. There must be no kill switches. But it is nevertheless clear that they pose a greater greater risk in the hands of Chinese EV makers as they can be compelled by the Chinese government to "co-operate." China is well-known for all kinds of coercion.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Tesla is every bit as concerning as BYD.

    The US has the ability to compel companies just like China does.

    Neither country is trustworthy and one is completely insane.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Spoiler: they couldn’t hack into anything that affected driving the vehicle, but could access the microphone inside.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Couldn't break into the most safety-critical systems or potential surveillance features yet but that doesn't mean they won't or that the government whose citizens built the systems can't. Still demonstrated significant risks.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    The original tesla network had zero encryption when they were tying to pitch their cars to the military. These.companies have no idea how to operate in the real world

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago

    I realize they can't publish how they "hacked" the vehicle but without this part, the article feels a bit lacking. Can it be done by anyone? Only by someone with physical access? Other than that it's not saying much more than what Mozilla had published about a bunch of cars, not just Chinese. And we already know other governments are also dangerous when it comes to this data.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    Oh! This might be good news! When are we getting a car distro of Linux?

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago

    Yeah all these big brother devices are riddled with security holes because they are absolute crap being pushed out as fast as possible. This is just "China scary" horseshit. US, and European cars spy on everything, and aren't particularly difficult to hack either.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    There has to be a way to not have the thing online all the time surely?

    Pull a fuse, unplug something whatever it takes ?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    It’ll have at least one eSIM, and pulling the fuse will probably disconnect the entertainment, air conditioning, and other systems managed by the console, and potentially make it impossible to start the car at all.

    Best you can do is toggle off the access, but that’s just a software toggle, and even then there’s probably a secondary eSIM for the emergency responder system.

    Only way to get a car that doesn’t connect to the internet is to buy an old one.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Which I have, burns dead dinosaur goop, stereo I fitted myself. No touch screen, great MPG.

    Petrol prices are hurting right now but the cost to get an electric car, the charging infrastructure and everything that goes with it is something I can't justify right now.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    ooh, propaganda showing a foreign made product is bad and motivates law makers to protect local manufacturers! With all the listening and monitoring every other car brand does, I want to see how they hold up.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago

    You need more valid reasons to hate... let me check my notes... ah yes, slave labour enjoyers, BYD? One of the worst satisfactory survey losers? That BYD?

    Chinese sympathiser bot spotted. Please do tell me how everything we heard about China is western propaganda! I love that story.

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    As an addition: Remote 'kill switches' in Chinese buses have been found last year in the Netherlands, UK, Denmark, Norway, ...

    Here are some articles:

    Kill switches: a new way of waging war

    There is already evidence found of Chinese kill switches in devices like wind turbines, solar panels, and buses. These are pieces of hardware that allow the manufacturer to disable or disrupt the device. Are we surrounded by ticking time bombs?

    Neighboring Norway’s discovery that buses could be controlled from China now has Denmark on high alert

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    OK, now try to hack a Slate truck

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    This guy fancies himself as a script writer. That was painful to read and they need to get to the point.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    It's BYD.... It's a CCP (Communist) owned company. They block their country from the Internet, most Western apps like Google Tictok FB ect are banned, and they monitor all mobile communication. They even threaten your family if you're studying abroad and post negative shit about Xi or the CCP.

    Are you seriously that nieve to believe your Chinese EV isn't tapped for easy listening?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    The real issue here is how BYD will react to this. Technical failure is not something to be ashamed of. Not acting on it to address it is.

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  • 24 comments in c/privacy@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 44 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    good thing all other cars are safe from hacking

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  • [–] 29 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    So it's just like any other new car?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I am not going to say this is a one country specific problem. However, we for sure need to start a much needed scrutiny regarding cars in general and privacy/security, and we need to start somewhere

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Reading this made me think about how people have devices like this all over their lives.

    I would love for a consumer group like the EFF or IEEE or whatever to “certify” devices from a security standpoint. It could start as a marketing point from the manufacturers standpoint, a logo they could add that says someone looked at it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    You can yank all the fuses and antennas you want, people are still driving around with phones providing all the exact same data.

    Why this triggers people about cars makes no sense to me, when they then install Alexa/siri/Google home recording when you take a shit.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago*

    At this point just get an e-bike or a normal bike if you have calories to burn.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago
    [–] 14 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I'd say this is by far the biggest issue with EVs. Well, not necessarily with EVs, but with new cars in general, most of which happen to be EVs, and their share will only continue growing.

    Sure, it's a nice car, somewhat better for the environment, pretty cool. But it's also a giant surveillance device that gathers more information on you than your smartphone, smart tv, and computer combined.

    And it has a kill switch, too. If the government being able to remotely shut down your car wasn't bad enough - this research shows that virtually any hacker may be able to do so as well.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Would imagine that with automakers' own history of trying to push people into new cars by dropping support for stuff in older models without framework for being able to switch to a different option (like GPS nav using their own software/services and no option for at least casting phone apps). Seems like the problem will get worse. Automakers insisting on only using their own planned obsolescent features in so many models, is about as bad as phones used to be. Except a phone is at least easier to upgrade from in cost. And that most people really still see their cars as not having security issues just because the company stopped caring about it in 4 or 5 years.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    "China has always shown its strong desire to steal things, to surveil," he says.

    "No-one should be in any doubt that [Chinese EVs] are used in the same manner.

    Just more sinophobic shit. All that vegemite rot all Aussie brains.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    They had the car for two weeks, and the best they got was being able to remotely activate the windscreen wipers, and flash the lights and radio

    I've never seen the abc do this with a tesla btw

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    It's probably similar with all these new "high tech" cars. Although I would like to know, it's a shame they only talked about it with one specific model from one specific brand.

    They probably hoped people would infer it's the same with all Chinese cars, but for some reason not western cars.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    For real. I would imagine that the US agencies that have the same levels of access/authority could (maybe already do) have the same access as China to US cars. Pretty sure that the levels of real surveillance/spying can force access with the ability to gag the manufacturers from taking to open court via national security. If that doesn't work, they can flip already existing employees or get agents hired at the companies without the company itself knowing to insert backdoors (or find zero-day stuff that they will not disclose to keep as long as possible).

    At least with China the nature of known laws regarding forcing compliance is more or less known. With the US it is much more hidden and pretend "it can't be done because laws." Anything the US claims the "evil CeeCeePee" does/could do are shit the US already can/does do to spy on/fuck with stuff sold to citizens and people buying abroad. If Chinese computers/infrastructure components can't be trusted because "they might", then no one should trust the same things from the US for the same reasons. Any nation with advanced tech and major "defense" budgets can (or eventually) get access to any of the computer/"smart" tech. But China is always painted as being "evil/scary" by default to make people think the US or other major powers don't actively do the same or more of it.

    The real problem with EVs (and combustion cars with so many bells and whistles) are how much more attack surface for governments or even hackers that just love finding flaws just for pranks. The more computers in the cars that replace previously analog items means more ways to gain access. Hell people act like people with FlipperZero or similar tools weren't showing lack of security with unlocking, starting, etc. cars and showing it online it can be done. And that insurance, manufacturers, or companies like All Star can disable cars for lots of reasons, and get data from the passengers and their devices (and sell that data).

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Holden cars meanwhile remain hack-proof. Another win for the Australian auto industry.

    ;)

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  • 10 comments in c/privacy@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 14 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    They are purposely building surveillance into all vehicles. I’m not sure the Chinese vehicles are going to be much worse.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)
  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I think this goes for most connected card. None of them specialize in security and software.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Ok, yes, not surprised. How can I learn to hack my own car? I have a number of changes I'm interested in making, e.g. I would like the music controls on the left 1/3 of the screen, and the map on the right 2/3s. It's currently the reverse. Simple stuff like that, to start.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    There was one defcon talk about it. It's a lot of pretty complex reverse engineering, so getting really good at reading and understanding assembly and working with debuggers /disassemblers without symbols is a start.

    The talk I remember, where they were able to steer and break any car of the model in the world remotely, they got in by finding a unauth vulnerability in a remote call, and then used the firmware update process to bridge the almost airgapped vehicle controls system from the frontend car control (the screen, etc) system.

    They boasted how secure it is because it's airgaoped and compromised frontend can't touch the critical vehicle controls. It almost was, save for a single function used for updating both at once. It was months of reverse engineering and several bricked cars.

    But if you just want to change the frontend a little bit, it's not going to be as complex, probably. Still really difficult.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I'll have to give that talk a listen. Might be something on 2600. Thing is the next pricier level up on my vehicle unlocks a number of features that would be pleasant to add. And I'm the sort of person that feels like making changes in the vehicle I own is my right and privilege. Mod is Life. Thanks for your input!!

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    Is this the reason they want to/are banning Chinese EVs in the US? Or is it just to protect profits? Or is it both?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    that's just to protect profits. and this is just propaganda, because American cars are also laughably insecure. it made the national news several years ago.

    cars these days are built to be surveillance machines on wheels, with almost no thought to security or protecting them from people trying to hack them. it's only a matter of time until we start seeing deaths related to this.

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  • 9 comments in c/world view that post
    [–] 15 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    So what, your own government sanctioned EVs will do the same data mining with shit security, applies to Australia, US and every other country too. Nobody is writing hit pieces on domestic spyware cars, just the affordable Chinese ones

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 1 month ago

    As an addition: Remote 'kill switches' in Chinese buses have been found last year in the Netherlands, UK, Denmark, Norway, ...

    Here are some articles:

    Kill switches: a new way of waging war

    There is already evidence found of Chinese kill switches in devices like wind turbines, solar panels, and buses. These are pieces of hardware that allow the manufacturer to disable or disrupt the device. Are we surrounded by ticking time bombs?

    Neighboring Norway’s discovery that buses could be controlled from China now has Denmark on high alert

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    so they accessed the CAN bus from inside the car? sure, chinese cars spy on you and are easy to hack once you're given two weeks of full access inside the car, but so do western cars spy on you and are easily hacked with full access

    everyone's bad and the solution is better privacy regulation and enforcement that companies can't weasel out of or plan into their budget.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Hacking computerized cars from the outside is a bad thing.

    "Hacking" computerized cars when you already have physical access (e.g. because you're the owner) is a good thing!

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago*

    lol shit skirts around how they got access. 100% some bullshit with full access to the physical computer exaggeration and more of the same electronics bullshit to sound scary to idiots too lazy to inquire. Such lazy journalism looking to create fear about an actual issue that has nothing to do with security at all.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Ok. I'm not questioning the artocle and such, but:

    within minutes, he's obtained the interne bankong password.

    Unless this was a simple combination of where he lives and his birthday, how?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    if it had good crash test results, was smaller, and custom firmware was possible I would consider it anyway

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  • 6 comments in c/australia@aussie.zone view that post
    [+] 7 points 1 month ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    My biggest problem with modern cars is that the ADAS systems are all rubbish.

    I can deal with my car radio spying on what I say and monitoring where I drive, but I don’t like that it can suddenly decide that I should drive off a cliff or the wrong way onto a freeway on-ramp.

    Number one rule of driving is to not occupy the same space as someone else. ADAS like Park Sensors and Autonomous braking can help with that, when they function correctly, but when they are using an Optical Object Recognition Chip from Cheapest Bidder electronics company, they become a liability. And don’t get me started on “self driving” cars.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    The only ADAS system I've tried that didn't immediately infuriate me was on a newer VW Golf I rented last year. This was actually good and felt safe to use. It worked reliability on country roads with erased lane markings. I actually enjoyed using it. I've tried over the years, Peugeot, Opel, Fiat, Mercedes, Volvo, GM MG. All terrible. GM MG I also tried last year, brand new car, it was the absolute worst! Volvo's was tolerable.

    Edit: MG, not GM

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    We are finding that the Korean ones are the least-bad.

    Japanese are the least functional but also the least intrusive. I think that this is because Japanese marques are preferred by people who enjoy driving.

    Some Chinese ones are very Temu (say you have them but they are completely useless) and some are very AliBaba (say you have them and they function as well as the low end European).

    Speaking of European, the Volume brands have something to mark off the ENCAP checklist, despite the fact that they are useless, while the real Luxury marques have fully functional systems that try to do everything for you but just end up annoying you. Prestige marques are generally more selective and tailored to their owners requirements.

    The US is funny; you have Tesla and then you have everyone else. Tesla used to have the best units (that were used in higher end Mercedes a decade ago), while new Teslas, Ford and GM have cheapest bidder units to pretend to be Tesla, but are completely useless.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 month ago

    As an addition: Remote 'kill switches' in Chinese buses have been found last year in the Netherlands, UK, Denmark, Norway, ...

    Here are some articles:

    Kill switches: a new way of waging war

    There is already evidence found of Chinese kill switches in devices like wind turbines, solar panels, and buses. These are pieces of hardware that allow the manufacturer to disable or disrupt the device. Are we surrounded by ticking time bombs?

    Neighboring Norway’s discovery that buses could be controlled from China now has Denmark on high alert

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  • 1 comment in c/StopTech@lemmy.today view that post