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[–] 36 points 1 month ago
[–] 21 points 1 month ago (1 child)

Police arrested 29,404 people on stalking charges across 2024 and 2025.

That is an insane number.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    What could go wrong?

    FWIW, this seems ripe for data collection and field testing for free. (unless it's a paid sub, then that's worse)

    Exploiting abuse survivors to test a surveillance system is a new low —even for government. 🖕🏼

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I would agree with you if this measure weren't for convicted stalkers, which means that the alternative would be a prison sentence. This is by far more humane and allows the convict to at least live a normal life if he behaves.

    This is not mass surveillance. If you wanna see mass surveillance, check your nearby ALPR or CCTV.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Fair point, and I don't disagree in the slightest. The corruption and unchecked greed is at an especially pervasive point these days though, and that doesn't bode well for any tech that may've been intended to help people —and very likely could've, if it wasn't for those that're far more interested in helping themselves. 🥲

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I mean, reading the article, it’s specifically for victims of people who have court ordered ankle monitors. This isn’t like tracking non-convicted citizens… these individuals have been sentenced in a court of justice to having their privacy reduced by being tracked at all times, instead of being locked up in a prison cell. This is just notifying someone who has reason to need to know about data that’s available. I don’t have much problem with this…

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    FWIW, this seems ripe for data collection and field testing for free. (unless it's a paid sub, then that's worse)

    Exploiting abuse survivors to test a surveillance system is a new low —even for government. 🖕🏼

    Did you even read the article?

    Here, I'll help you:

    The app’s effectiveness depends on courts ordering suspects to wear electronic tags, something that remains relatively rare in South Korean stalking cases.

    Police arrested 29,404 people on stalking charges across 2024 and 2025. Authorities made 1,187 applications for electronic monitoring during that period, but courts approved only 427.

    Your "surveillance system" is court-ordered ankle monitors for known stalkers. Which, sure, is surveillance. You know, for a convicted stalker.

    Whether the ones who were stalked want to know where their stalker is might be a different story, but there's this cool thing you can do with apps where you turn off notifications and hide the app somewhere you never go. That way they don't have to see where the stalker is and they still get the benefit of "if that distance falls below 1km, police and probation authorities receive an alert and contact the victim."

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Possibly unpopular take but in a vacuum I think this is good policy (as described). I think this directly disarms some of the psychological harm of stalking, while being "narrowly tailored"

    Now do I trust the Republic of Samsung to use this policy/technology only in a pro-social way? Lmao no

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    So you recognize stalking is bad... AND LET YOUR CITIZENS DO IT???

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Next year... "SK has sudden rash of stalkers being hospitalized by their former victims..."

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  • 65 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 152 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Victims can open the app and track a tagged suspect’s location and direction of travel once they come within a 2km radius. If that distance falls below 1km, police and probation authorities receive an alert and contact the victim.

    seams okay for me

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  • [–] 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

    That seems pretty short though, surely it would mean you are not allowed to live, work or even vist the same town they live or work in.

    Like if anyone I knew was to be my stalker, one of us would have to quit their job and sell their house to relocate.

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  • [–] 71 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Stalking victims frequently have to move regularly to escape their stalkers. Stalkers needing to avoid one town is a minimal restriction for their offense.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    The problem is when you think about actual non-stalkers.

    I think this is a too rough, crude, gross, extreme, disproportionate and easy to abuse and misuse “solution” for that problem.

    There are many overly narcissistic and self-centered people who are going to be thinking that anyone who walks in the same direction as they are necessarily an stalker, and then there is the issue of revenge, blackmail, hate crimes and so on that a person can commit with an application of that nature.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    I thought you meant short for the victim... like 2km seems not enough. I would expect something more like 10km or something.

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  • [–] 69 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    Ankle tags if anyone is wondering:

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    That's a lot cooler than the absolutely nothing they do in the US for stalking victims.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    Stalking is such a fucked up phenomenon. I've seen it happen to someone. It's just insane. They stop at nothing, they're obsessed to the point of psychosis. Most of them never admit any wrongdoing either. The first step to treating psychopathology is for the client to admit the issue. If you can't get there then there's no hope for recovery.

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  • [–] 95 points 1 month ago (24 children)

    This is both a fitting punishment and a nightmare from a privacy perspective

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  • [–] 43 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    ...and a great security/relief for victims. I'm a vivid apologetic for privacy and security, but this seems like an acceptable thing.

    People seem to be fine to be transparent and 24/7 surveilleid with their phones. Some even seem to be fine to install doorcams from US-bigtech or spy-devices that can switch on a light. Heck, they even pay for those!

    This at least is a vers useful application of privacy invasion.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    People seem to be fine to be transparent and 24/7 surveilleid with their phones. Some even seem to be fine to install doorcams from US-bigtech or spy-devices that can switch on a light. Heck, they even pay for those!

    yeah, not us

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Yeah, assuming courts take the rights of the accused seriously it could be a win win, especially awaiting trial and during reintegration after prison. More safety and security for the victim and less need for more restrictive measures for the accused/released. It could easily be the difference between being stuck in jail for months and being granted bail.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    The danger of false-positives is surely looming here, but I can't really criticize it while having no better, more flawless, solutions.

    One thing to eradicate would be the social stigma of just being accused of something. Which not always means one is guilty of the accusation. We should treat those equal to others until their guilt is proven, if possible.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

    Copy-paste from another comment I did:

    The problem is when you think about actual non-stalkers.

    I think this is a too rough, crude, gross, extreme, disproportionate and easy to abuse and misused “solution” for that problem.

    There are many overly narcissistic and self-centered people who are going to be thinking that anyone who walks in the same direction as they are necessarily an stalker, and then there is the issue of revenge, blackmail, hate crimes and so on that a person can commit with an application of that nature.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Ok, but consider the falsely accused who may be stuck in jail awaiting trial. Yes, this is absolutely a burden on the accused, but it's a significantly lighter burden than other means of ensuring safety for the accuser.

    It definitely should be used with caution and as part of an attempt to find a balance between the needs of the accused and accuser. But fortunately that seems to be the case at the moment.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    Well, if someone is falsefully labeled a stalker, then what happens? He won't come near.

    Also, as said, the chance this stalker is already fine with being tracked all around by every device he owns, is probably near 100, so who cares?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    Copy-paste because it's essentially the same response:

    Well, I have to admit that I didn't read the article, just the title, now I have read it and understood the system.

    Sorry, my bad for making a hasty conclusion.

    I still feel that it can be abused because for a non-stalker is difficult to actually prove in a meaningful way that they're not an stalker, and as such can be easily mislabeled. That's specially problematic when you take into account things like pretty privilege, poverty traps, class dynamics, etc.

    But at least now it seems a bit more reasonable. I just hope that it's used in a fair and responsible way.

    But also:

    Well, if someone is falsefully labeled a stalker, then what happens? He won't come near.

    Imagine that person works, lives or has something to do regularly there (i.e., medical checkouts, or accountability stuff, or legal stuff, idk). It's a huge problem if it's misused.

    And I'm not even against the victims, as almost everyone here thinks that I am because of the fact that I think this is a bit problematic. I just think that a better solution should be developed.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I'm with you that it isn't perfect. I also don't assume malicious intent from you.

    But (probably depending a lot on location) here nothing is done to protect victims. I work for free in a shelter where abused people end up, and the impotence they face is maddening. Unless your stalker viciously attacks or even kills you, nothing can and will be done.

    Sure, you're right, if the accused stalker is no stalker at all, every system fails. But that applies to everything in the justice-system. We can never ever be 100% sure. Countless people were executed worldwide just to later learn they were innocent.

    BUT I would bet that the amount of false-positives is much smaller than the amount of true positives. So maybe 50 victims is helped, 1 innocent non-stalker pays a hefty price. Numbers pulled outta my arse, but provably not too far off.

    Question is, better a not perfect system or none at all? Better to protect 2 victims or protect 1 innocent? Ideally both, but also near impossible.

    It is also a very thin veil here. A stalker, by definition, hasn't done anything really solid criminal YET. But the victim is in real danger. Where to draw the line and how to proove being followed (or not following someone)?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Yeah, these are really hard and though problems.

    I usually feel very depressed when I think about it because I do not like the idea that other people have to suffer in that way (wether it is a victim of harassment or abuse, or one of false allegations).

    I would argue, however, that false positives are not so low. Especially when there are so many malicious incentives (even if they are not intentional on the part of those who plan, develop or approve this type of measure) to do that, and there are also too many people who are twisted in the world. Sometimes I start to think about why we had to touch such a difficult world, when I realize things like that. The same goes for false negatives, though.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I'm with you here. It is depressing. As most matters that kinda involve our species. And there rarely are absolute solutions. We mostly just approximate a good solution and rarely border perfection.

    Sure, false positives might be higher than I made them up, but most likely still lower than true positivis. And yes, even one life-destroying false-positive makes the whole system questionable. Is one person worth 10 others? Or 5? Or even 2?

    If it is the best idea we currently have, I'd side with Spock (the many vs the few), but am not really satisfied. My high demand for exact justice is rarely sated 😞

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    You know what? I'm OK with a panopticon specifically for convicted stalkers. I realize the potential for a slippery slope, but I think the risk is worth it in this one case.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    It wont stay confined to stalkers, it'll start being used for poor people in general.

    Trangressions like being late to work will be held against you. You know they will.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    uses data from court-ordered electronic ankle monitors

    Soo, your line of thought says that we are all gonna gef an ankle monitor? At that point i doubt the app is the kickstarter of the problem...

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Living on Earth is a nightmare from a privacy perspective.

    They have space binoculars pointed at you & AI is allowing them to transcribe everything you say into words even they can understand

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    How short will Orswell, Asimov, Huxley or Bradbury be...

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Aldous would be hunched over from perspective & the weight of understanding.

    George is standing tall with a trail of aspiring writers behind him.

    Issac is hiding in a cave, pondering the essence of technology.

    Ray is floating in a vacuum of space, imagining the concept of oxygen.

    All are exactly the same height, 1 book tall. Unless you are counting their bones, which are likely mostly brittle or ash.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I imagine it makes beeping noises and displays a blip on a radar display like the proximity devices in alien movies. Shudders.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (1 child)
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    [–] 22 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Now do the same with corporations and ceos

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    And so it seems the stalker has become the stalkee. Delicious.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    It's interesting that I've never seen a single Korean news article about this. And this is a country where even the petty stupid arguments between neighbors make national news.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    Imagine getting buzzed every time your stalker's train passed near your apt on their way to work or vice versa.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    So how does this work if a convicted stalker just lives or works within a few km of where a victim lives or works?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    I have no idea, but if I had to guess based on a couple of court cases that came up on youtube, the stalker has some carve out where they can go to work, but they have to take very inconvient ways to get there to minimize proximity to the victim.

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  • Yeah. Pretty reasonable tbh this one fuck stalkers

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I know of a case where an assault victim got a special device that relayed the proximity of their atacker starting from 3000 meters.

    It was paired with the ankle bracelet and it only beeped proximity. No location. If a certain range was breeched, it would relay instantly to authorities, which are mandated to call the bracelet carrier imediatly. No answer/range reduction, immediate victim call/visit/collection.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (5 children)

    Does that transform the victim to the stalker making the stalker the victim and the victim the stalker putting the anklet on the stalker because now they are the victim and the previous victim becomes the new stalker, making the previous stalker the new victim...

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    I think you're joking, but in case you're not... This is just like the paradox of tolerance, everyone has a right to privacy and freedom but if they violate other's rights, society will in exchange take away theirs. We don't (generally) call imprisoned criminals "victims of kidnapping" either.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    what if u pretend to be a victim its a good idea tho i think the makers arent trying to use it for bad

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  • 8 comments in c/technology@lemmy.zip view that post
    [–] 14 points 1 month ago (1 child)
  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    In Norway they put ankle monitors on stalkers and everytime they approach their victim an alarm goes off and police show up and have a chat.

    The success rate is pretty good and the stalkers seem to actually lose interest in their victim when there are repeated consequences to their behavior. We are trying out this concept in Denmark too.

    Better to teach the stalker how to not stalk through pavlovian methods than to put the ownage on the victim.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    At first glance it seems like a good idea, but there's something about it the makes me distinctly uneasy. False sense of security? How easily could it be manipulated?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    is there a country that has a verified working and sane method to handle stalkers? this seems still bad for mental health

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    worse than not knowing if the person stalking you is waiting outside your window for you to fall asleep, so that they can come inside and rape and kill you? they aren't just made aware of the stalker being near, the police and probation officer are as well so that they can contact the victim and assist.

    in the US, the cops would dismiss the victim and let her be murdered.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    no I'm saying why in the hell is there a need for that in the first place. I would much rather hear that the victim definitively didn't need to worry than that they would have to constantly check an app which is bound to have failures at some point, especially when the app is put in place by people that need the victim to monitor their own stalker.

    and I never expected anything from the us. a lot of stalkers there are cops

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    they would have to constantly check an app

    need the victim to monitor their own stalker

    neither of these are true. moth understands, sometimes it is easier to see a headline and jump to conclusions. but when you do that, you form opinions that are uninformed and incorrect.

    the monitoring is done by the authorities, and the victim is notified only when the stalker is within 2km of them. at 1km range, the police are notified and dispatched, and the probation officer calls the victim to talk them through the event.

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