The families of US soldiers who have died in the US-Israeli war against Iran are battling to ensure they receive appropriate pay and benefits for their loved ones.

Libby Klinner, a widow, wrote on social media that the US air force had deemed her ineligible for additional benefits following the death of Major Alex Klinner, her 33-year-old husband, because Congress had not officially declared war.

He was one of six crew members of a KC-135 refuelling aircraft that crashed in western Iraq in March while supporting US strikes against Iran.

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[–] [S] 146 points 2 months ago (10 children)

Reminds me of this:

An ex-convict gave horrific insight into serving in the Russian army, saying his officers refused to collect the dead bodies of soldiers from the battlefield so that the Russian military wouldn't have to pay their families, according to The New York Times.

In an interview, the soldier who served in one of the Russian Ministry of Defense's convict units — who was identified as "Aleksandr" — told the Times he was ordered not to collect the bodies of his fellow troops.

He told the Times that officers could register the men as "missing in action," meaning their families couldn't collect compensation for them being killed in battle.

One shitty dictator starting a completely unwarranted war doing the same thing as another shitty dictator running a completely unwarranted war.

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  • [–] 34 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Give Putin some credit. He's doing this much more intelligently. He maintains a plausible pretense to not pay out death benefits while Trump just goes "No".

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Because he knows Americans will roll over and accept “no” without a fight

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  • [–] 109 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I've said it forever: Screwing over veterans is more American than apple pie. We've been doing it since the American Revolution.

    I can't imagine President Pedophile being the one to change that. He doesn't even care enough to pretend.

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  • [–] 40 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    He actively distains troops and veterans.

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  • [–] 29 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    He’s a draft dodger himself. They’re only pawns in his scheme to enrich himself and the capital class. It’s been the same with every president since WWII.

    This is what happens when you prop your economy up on war and petroleum. You have to fight constant wars to maintain it. You have to keep heating up the planet until it’s unliveable.

    The Great Depression proved that capitalism is a bubble that can’t sustain itself without constant exploitation of fossil fuels and the military-industrial complex. The second hit took place with the oil shortages and stagflation of the 1970s.

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  • [–] 90 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    If it’s not officially a war, what happens if a combatant chooses not to engage?

    I suspect they’d be court martialled as if it were refusing a wartime order.

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  • [–] 74 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    ... That might be the excuse they're using.

    The reality is that they don't have the money because they spent it on bombing schools for young girls.

    fuckers need to fuck right off to the fuckerville composting center.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    The reality is that they don’t have the money because they spent it on bombing schools for young girls.

    It's tax payers money, they have plenty of these, they just use money for things that are directly useful to them

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  • [–] 46 points 2 months ago (42 children)

    please stop joining the military

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (41 children)

    I 100% agree. But also, some folks have little choice as it's the only path they have out of poverty. Could be their only chance for a decent education too.

    Edit: I understand the backlash I'm getting. But I also realize that poverty produces desperation, and desperation can push people to extreme decisions. Easy for me to say "don't ever join under any circumstances" when I'm not the one suffering in extreme poverty.

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    I'd rather be poor than murder people 🤷‍♂️

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  • [+] -14 points 2 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

    I was when I was enlistment age, and I told the recruiter to go fuck himself when they came asking, and then to go find a squadmate to assist if he couldnt follow the directions himself when he didn't like the first answer.

    I had enough combat vets in my life to know what was up. No glory seekers, only people who saw the brutality first hand.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I was when I was enlistment age

    So you had other means to escape poverty.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    I'd rather be poor than feed my body to the war machine. I'm not well off by any means, but that doesn't mean I don't have principles.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I too have always been poor, and had family members who were in vietnam. They told me truths.

    I have always carried the idea, I can be poor, this is not a moral issue, but I refuse to carry myself without dignity. I can be poor, doesnt mean I have to be dirty, doesnt mean I have to sign my soul away for a dollar.

    Good for you.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago

    Becoming a disposable weapon of the state is still a choice, they still have blood on their hands, whether or not the game is rigged to coerce desperate people into becoming murderers or cannon fodder

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  • [–] 27 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    the “have little choice” is just being able to shift guilt. we 100% know this is a genocidal fascist regime, and i have more support for someone who chooses to be gifted “life’s plan” of hardship over joining this mil.

    fyi: this is the plan. the capitalists who profit from war know they can only profit if there is a cohort of poor, hungry, stupid kids they can use for the human parts.

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  • [+] -18 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    they can use for the human parts.

    If you want people to take you seriously, you could make less childish arguments.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago

    explain how this is childish. machines like weapons require people to operate. it’s always been the working class and poor who are scooped up to operate them. “ain’t no war but class war” is not just a bumper sticker.

    so: try your reply again.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago*

    Are you upset that you can't refute the 100% accurate point?

    The troops are pretty much there to go kill or die for some billionaire's profits, and Smedley Butler said as much decades ago and it's only gotten worse since. Once they get the killer robots working, they'll cut out the troops and not have to worry about people complaining about pay.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Honestly, if it’s this bad, why is this put up with?

    For a country that has spent so much time telling others how free it is, its citizens take a lot of shit

    If it’s that bad, no point waiting around any longer, shut the thing down.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    All you gotta do is tell people they're free.

    Then you place them in freedom shackles, and give them freedom bucks to trade around inside their freedom cage. Why do you hate freedom so much, don't you like your freedom slop?

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    If the only path out of poverty is killing poor people abroad then I'd rather stay poor.

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  • [+] -11 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    You're probably not poor then

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    'No true Scotsman' but for poor people choosing not to kill strangers for corporate profits.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe you'd just enjoy killing people even of you had money.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Ignoring my point to use an ad hominem - how typical of Lemmy.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I don't care how poor you are, if killing people for corporate profits is your way out of it you're a shitty person.

    If you want to find ways to justify killing people for corporate profits then you deserve to be singled out and told that you're a mass murder apologist.

    How typical of Lemmy having to face consequences for you pro-murder takes.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    I don't understand the backlash you're getting. It's not very surprising that a poor 18 year old sees the military as a way out of their hardship. I'm not saying it is, there's a very good chance it is not. But that a struggling teenager can see it that way, and getting drawn in by recruiters isn't odd.

    100% agree with your edit. You'll see people used as drug mules, not because they're hardened criminals, but because they're desperate enough to do something they know is wrong.

    I think a lot of the people taking a hard stance against you here haven't seen hardship up close and dont realise how tempting it would be to do something to get out of it

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    Id rather see them in poverty than more dead girls abroad. We should start spitting on their faces again.

    You may not believe it, but dead nieces sisters and daughters also foments desperation and inspires violence. The sniper who develops ptsd because he killed three generations of men in because he had to do that or be a wage slave is a product of what republicans want. If that guy had a UBI and more socialism in general, guess what? He isn't ending three generations of men because he has literally no reason to do it now.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Sorry I had to serve in the SS cuz it was the only path I had out of poverty, for a chance at a decent education too, I 100% hate those Nazis please don't put us on trial 🥺

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  • [+] -6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    The US military isn't the SS.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago*

    I grew up in an area where that was absolutely the case. A whole lot of people on things like food stamps and so on.

    I don't have exact numbers, but I'd say at least one in four males (and not a few females) went into some branch of the military. They are promised a lot and most of it is not delivered.

    My parents were pacifists and extremely suspicious of the industrial military complex, and did everything possible to keep the recruiters at bay, while they scrimped and saved and got loans for my siblings and I to get a secondary education or vocational training. They were not rich, but given they were both gainfully employed and very frugal, we were in a more stable home than most in my area.

    Many kids did not even graduate, there was a fair bit of teen pregnancy, too. I have the same suspicion of the military my parents had, but I also understand that many of my school mates did not have a lot of options.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    The military is never anyone's only choice out of poverty. The military is a career you choose. Just because you were in poverty when you made that choice does not mean you didn't have other choices.

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  • [–] 36 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Pentagon & GOP: Fuck you for your service.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Military proceeds to vote GOP

    At some point you have to lose compassion for idiots voting for the leopards party

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago*

    40% of those in the military vote Democrat, do you have compassion for them?

    Please recall that most voters voted for Trump, so anyone in any other nation could use your logic to not have compassion for you, the minority.

    (if military are idiots because majority voted R, then you are an idiot because US majority voted R).

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Military recruits predominantly lower income, under educated people and then proceeds to fall for Republican propaganda - it's like you sectioned off a control group and said "damn, why are they so control?"

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  • [–] 36 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Think about the bright side: If all countries stop using the term "war", then we've achieved world peace!! /s

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  • [–] 33 points 2 months ago*

    Imagine joining the US military.

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  • [–] 32 points 2 months ago

    This should not surprise anyone. We've known Trump has nothing but contempt for our service members for years. It wasn't even limited to his comments about John McCain's five years as a POW either...

    Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’ published by The Atlantic on Sept 3rd 2020.

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  • [–] 29 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    Congress can basically make "non wars" into wars for benefits.

    OEF and OIF cover post 9/11 up to like 2010 in most of the middle east.

    It could be fixed right now, but trump and the Republicans won't.

    But the real solution has always been giving everyone the benefits disabled vets get

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    they don't even have the money for payroll right now.

    So no, they really can't fix it overnight.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    But we can build ballrooms and arches and multiple attempts at a blue pool. Odd.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    Congress could do a lot of things that they are refusing ro do.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (6 children)

    Because Republicans have both majorities and the presidency...

    Our system sucks, but it used to be functional, and can be again.

    Obviously one of the first things to do once it's functional, is improve the system and put in protections to stop this from happening again.

    Like, everyone complains about the electoral college, but we could just get rid of it and make the presidency a straight popular vote. But the real problem, is a president was never meant to have this much power in the first place. They're supposed to be an essentially powerless ambassador.

    No real power, just the person we said can speak on our behalf in situations where there's just a single seat at a table for America

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (5 children)

    one of the first things to do once it's functional, is improve the system and put in protections to stop this from happening again.

    Agreed, that will be critical in trying to regain any level of trust from the rest of the world.

    the real problem, is a president was never meant to have this much power in the first place.

    Again, you have identified another of the issues that needs fixing.

     

    Between fixing those issues and repairing all the damage Trump (and his acomplices) have done, the USA has decades of work to do.

    I hope they are both willing and able to put in the effort.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Between fixing those issues and repairing all the damage Trump (and his acomplices) have done, the USA has decades of work to do.

    If you think that, you need to look back on how fast FDR fixed shit, and how the only thing that stopped him from doing more, is people not following up by flushing incumbents holding back progress.

    Back then the average person didn't have the same outreach. Social media means people can actually organize and hear how things are going. That's why oligarchs keep gobbling up social media and flooding it with bots.

    They're fucking scared.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    Remind me in 6 years.

    Based on the level of apathy I see from a majority of Americans, I don't expect much more than surface level changes (re-naming things back to their original names, de-trumping the white house decore etc) and little else.

    I also don't trust that the Americans won't just elect another complete asshole 4 years after Trump is no longer president.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Then you don't understand how bad the party was under neoliberalism from 1991-2025, and you just assume that was actually trying or that the party went in a different direction with the 2025 chair election.

    Like, if you ignore everything, obviously it's not going to make sense.

    If you pay attention to what happened and what is happening, you wouldn't spend your free time shitting on the best and only chance to save the country....

    Unless you were a trump supporter or neoliberal despite to depress dem turnout to stop progressives

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    despite to depress dem turnout to stop progressives

    I assume that was supposed to be "desperate".

    That aside, I would much prefer the Americans elect a Democrat over a Republican, but I also would prefer the democrats put forward more progressive candidates than they have been.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    but I also would prefer the democrats put forward more progressive candidates

    Buddy...

    Every comment you make, shows you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

    The party shouldn't pick any candidate, the fact that they were was the problem.

    Why the fuck don't you ask questions instead of a constant string of wrong information?

    Do you think any of the shit you e been saying is actually true or how any of this works?

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  • [–] 27 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    You also can't lose a war if it isn't a war! 😅

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    That's how they avoid saying they haven't won a war since WW2.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (6 children)

    Iraq was a pretty clear military victory.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    The war so nice they did it twice.

    But it just lead to wider conflict and terrorism in the region.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    So Iraq being in disarray after defeat somehow implies the US lost the war against them?

    And wider conflict? Do you think Iraq was some sort of peaceful neighbor leading up to its demise?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    The lack of a victory implies the US didn't win.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Unfortunately for your hot take, Iraq signed surrender and the US executed their former leader. The US objectively won that war. I get it, in your mind victory or defeat hinges on whether you like the victor or not, but reality doesn't work that way.

    But if it's any consolation, Iran also defeated Iraq and the US didn't take on Iraq alone. I personally don't believe Iraq was a worthy opponent for the US. But saying the US hasn't won a war since WW2 is factually incorrect.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    The first time, yes. The second time proved what history has proven countless times. Killing a bunch of people with a big military is easy. Occupations are really, really difficult.

    In its history, the US has only had 2 really successful occupations, (West Germany and Japan after WWII), and both of those were because they occupied nations were cooperating with the US and its allies.

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