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[–] 60 points 2 months ago (22 children)

I've already heard some Nationalist Christians (Nat-Cs) going on about the same thing, just because they "weren't a Christian nation"

It's never limited to one religion, and it's usually the abrahamic ones that are the worst.

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  • [–] 31 points 2 months ago (17 children)

    This has been a growing thing for awhile. I've been an audio engineer for 16 years. It's common for audio engineers to work in churches for our first 10+ years because it's stable work in an inherently difficult industry to get started in. I amplify things for a living, but I draw the line at hate speech, so I've always left church gigs after they do hate speech, so I've worked at a lot of churches... They used to put on a big show of forced compassion for victims of extreme weather events. The last three churches I worked at shifted to the "well if they would've worshiped the TRUE god, they probably would've lived" shit during demented don's first term. I haven't taken another church gig since the industry bounced back from covid and never will. Church people are horrible.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 months ago (16 children)

    I worked the sound board for my parents church for the better part of a decade as a teenager into early 20s.

    When I left after a guest pastor was allowed to do a sermon on how we should all hate lgbt groups and minorities because "God put us in a position of power over them for a reason" I swapped a bunch of cables around, turned every dial to max, and left important cables unplugged and mixed with similar looking cables.

    I denied doing anything when my parents brought it up, but since I didn't do anything illegal like breaking equipment I wasn't worried about it.

    I guess they tried to fix it themselves, which caused issues with the board and ended up replacing most of the sound system anyway before the end of the year while spending millions of dollars on church expansion instead of helping the community (which they claimed for years that they were doing despite straight up telling homeless people attending services they needed to leave)

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    despite straight up telling homeless people attending services they needed to leave

    Holy hell, if christ were real he would have such stern words for them on judgement day. It would go something along the lines of "Depart from me, for I never knew you."

    What you did was pretty based though.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Holy hell, if christ were real he would have such stern words for them on judgement day. It would go something along the lines of “Depart from me, for I never knew you.”

    I mean... I don't believe he was a faith healer, or at least, not legitimately one that actually healed shit. I don't believe he's the son of god, or that he did anything miraculous.

    And I have no reason to believe any of that.

    So, let me ask this: What reason to I have to believe he wasn't a charlatan getting rich off the people around him- including the destitute that gave everything to be healed? One would will also notice that most of his closest disciples were in fact successful businessmen. And that he preferred to hang around rich-people's homes.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    He never collected payment or received money, for one thing. He literally told rich people to sell what they have and give to the poor. If you were to analyze him politically through a modern lens, he would be either a socialist or a communist. He doesn't need supernatural powers for that to be true.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    You understand he gave the same greedy-ass command to the poor and desperate, right?

    That’s how his cult worked. You get hooked with fake-ass miracles. You’d move out of your home, sell all your shit and give all your money to the cult.

    That is, in point of fact, how they work to enrich the cult’s leadership.the rich guy didn’t walk away because he was a greedy rich guy. He walked away because he saw it for what it was: a grift.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    They didn't work to "enrich their leadership" until centuries later.

    Early on, it was about sharing all you have and owning everything in common. Which, funny enough, is exactly how communism claims to work.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    They didn’t work to “enrich their leadership” until centuries later.

    Evidence?

    Early on, it was about sharing all you have and owning everything in common. Which, funny enough, is exactly how communism claims to work.

    Funny enough, there was inequality in the followers of Jesus, too. Or did you think the "Crowds™️" all got to hang out at rich people banquets and with prostitutes?

    Go read the bible again. Start with the old testament. pay attention to the Law and to the prophets. and then go to the new testament. and everytime it says 'and they did x to fulfill y', ask yourself, 'did they really fulfil y, or are they just making shit up.' And then read the supposed words of jesus and ask yourself, 'is this the language of someone who loves someone and wants what's best for them, or is this the language of someone whose exploiting them?'

    Cuz telling people to hate their parents and to leave them and join a vagabond doomsday cult is not particularly loving. It's isolating. And you will notice, that Jesus targeted the desperate and the vulnerable. Like very con artist faith healer in history. the kinds of people so desperate they would give up everything they have.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    I kind of understand these pseudo Christian American nationalists to be so far gone they'd immediately think that's not Jesus. He's not white enough and says progressive things.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Yeah, they'd call him a commie and a hippy and they'd chase him away and say he's a danger to their children.

    It reminds me of the metaphor where a guy shows up to his own dinner party in rough travel garments and no one recognizes him so he kicks them all out and invites random people off the street instead.

    Or like the whole "When did we see you and not minister to you?" part.

    I'm not religious anymore and I don't really believe in anything, but it's still pretty clear to me (and always has been) that jesus was nothing like the typical american christian fundie evangelical types portray him as and that those people are all hypocrites. So it still annoys me when people look at those people as examples and try to paint that as the epitome of what christianity was supposed to be from the start. Like, it had clearly been co-opted and distorted over the millennia since it started and people just act like what we see today is somehow its truest and most essential form. It's a bit ridiculous.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (4 children)

    if christ were real he would have such stern words for them on judgement day

    Or he'd say something about homeless dogs not deserving bread. I don't understand why anyone glazes Jesus, he was a delusional narcissist and a massive hypocrite.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    That was a metaphor for why he shouldn't have to heal the Greek woman, who then ended up convincing him that he was wrong and should heal her anyway. If he was a delusional narcissist he would have doubled down on never being wrong or changing his mind about anything ever. Narcissists don't say "Hey actually yeah, you're right and I was wrong. Here you go."

    Bear in mind, the Greeks had previously conquered the region and were viewed as basically settler-colonialists there at the time. It would be like a French person in Algiers begging a local Algerian community leader for free handouts

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    If he was a delusional narcissist he would have doubled down on never being wrong or changing his mind about anything ever. Narcissists don't say "Hey actually yeah, you're right and I was wrong. Here you go."

    Did he ever admit to not being god? Did you miss all the sermons about how he, Jesus, is the only path to salvation? He even let himself get killed for it. Psycho shit.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    That stuff is mostly editorialized later by the people who wrote the books with various agendas. In the Book of Matthew at least, he does very little claiming to be god or the only path to salvation.

    It's more like "You religious hypocrites and rich fucks better stop being such goddamn assholes and start actually taking care of people or so help me I swear I will incinerate you."

    Paraphrasing, of course.

    To everyone else he's like "Y'all are alright, just take care of each other and stop being so damn forlorn all the time."

    And yeah he let himself be a martyr. I guess he took his pacifism seriously, or maybe he didn't want his followers to all get slaughtered if they tried fighting for him. It's hard to say exactly, but I don't think "He got beaten, insulted, and killed by the entrenched powers because he wouldn't stop making them look like the self-centered and greedy idiots that they are" is a very good argument for "actually he was a psycho narcissist who never knew when to stop."

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    That stuff is mostly editorialized later by the people who wrote the books with various agendas.

    All of the gospels were written 30+ years after he died. How are you discerning which content to ignore?

    In the Book of Matthew at least, he does very little claiming to be god or the only path to salvation.

    In Matthew 7, he asserts that listening to his words is equivalent to building on solid stone, and that ignoring him is equivalent to building on sand.

    Matthew 10:

    "Whoever publicly acknowledges me I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven."

    Matthew 16:

    "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

    Matthew 28:

    Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

    Etc. And you didn't answer my question. Did he ever admit that he is not god? Or did he insist on that narcissistic delusion until it killed him?

    It's more like "You religious hypocrites and rich fucks better stop being such goddamn assholes and start actually taking care of people or so help me I swear I will incinerate you."

    "I help people if they're the right race. I believe people should give up their valuables, except this oil we're gonna pour on me in a needless symbolic display. Anyone who doesn't listen to me (despite my conflicting messages) will suffer, my daddy will beat you up, and he is me."

    And you mentioned the threat of hell. Yeah, that's psychotic and abusive. He's using fear to manipulate people.

    To everyone else he's like "Y'all are alright, just take care of each other and stop being so damn forlorn all the time."

    Nothing says "I care" more than dismissing someone's feelings, huh?

    And why does he think there is no reason to worry? Because he believes in heaven. It's a death cult.

    And yeah he let himself be a martyr. I guess he took his pacifism seriously

    Or he was an idiot.

    maybe he didn't want his followers to all get slaughtered if they tried fighting for him.

    But that happened anyway, he got himself and other people killed with his bullshit.

    It's hard to say exactly, but I don't think "He got beaten, insulted, and killed by the entrenched powers because he wouldn't stop making them look like the self-centered and greedy idiots that they are" is a very good argument for "actually he was a psycho narcissist who never knew when to stop."

    Nor was that my argument, jackass. He was a delusional narcissist because he claimed to be god. He used baseless supernatural claims to manipulate people, often to the detriment of everybody. 2000 years later and we're still dealing with the fallout from his ridiculous claims. Real children die in the name of fake gods.

    We can talk about one good thing he said, the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. But A) he did not invent that concept, and B) he did not live by it. He explicitly positioned himself as being above everyone else, as being closest to god. He told deadly lies, which most people do not want others to do to them.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    "Judgement Day", when Christ promises to come back and murder all non-believers and torture them for all eternity; He claims He was GOD during the great flood, too.

    You don't know any of this, do you?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    He doesn't claim to murder/torture non-believers, but religious hypocrites and financial oligarchs (merchants) who refused to help the less fortunate.

    It's not that different from revolutionaries today saying they'll solve the billionaire problems with guillotines.

    He claims He was GOD during the great flood, too.

    Where does he do that?

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago

    I was raised to be Christian, but someone screwed up and taught me to care about others instead of teaching me that God wants me to profit from their suffering. I think because of that I could never look at it the way they do.

    During one of the times that Haiti was the "focus of God's wrath", I said that it seemed more like a consequence of our godlessness rather than theirs.

    If God can let innocent people die when we care about them, why do we assume God is punishing the people who die that we don't care about. Maybe God is taking the people we abuse away from us. Maybe the lesson we should be taking is that we should do more to stop poverty and illness and suffering rather than patting ourselves on the back for being lucky in our birth.

    Of course, I don't actually believe in God, so I don't make those arguments. However, those would be the arguments I'd make if I did believe.

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  • [–] 27 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    These are the same people that tell me that me getting repeatedly raped by my female, alcoholic, bipolar caregiver when I was a child, is actually a blessing from God.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Don’t be silly, women can’t rape people.

    /s because people actually believe this shit.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    This fact was one of the most brutal challenges to overcome in my healing. When I started to be able to talk about what had happened to me... Almost universally the answer/response would be "that couldn't have happened", "you're making this up", "you're just angry at your mother", etc. it re-traumatized me very badly and it took a long time to get over this & to be able to assert myself.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 months ago

    Tbf, allah wasn't doing shit here either.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Hey this is kind of testable. We could run data analytics to see which higher powers people are praying to, cross-reference that with natural disaster occurrences and narrow down to find out which is the one and true!

    My hypothesis is that no member of any major religion would like the results that come out. 😎

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    🧑🏻‍🚀🔫🧑🏻‍🚀

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Those are the kindest, most wonderful people. That anyone would disparage them in death like this is just horrifying.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Plenty of disasters that impacted mostly Christian’s can be easily pointed out

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Very easy to find someone to get mad at on the Internet. And, in the modern state of social media, 9 times out of 10 it's just a bot account fishing for human reactions.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Why did they translate every word from Arabic to English except for "Allah", which they transliterated?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    People and their obsession with finding pattern and meaning.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    Yeah, so, turns out the world is full of irredeemable pieces of shit. What are we going to do about it?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Nepal is a secular country. It was a hindu nation, and still is hindu majority. But most new generation are secular-hindu, as in hindu culture but not religious. Similar to how someone might celebrate Christmas but not do religious things associated with it

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  • [+] -5 points 2 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago

    I'm not debating the origin. If you're buying a bunch of gifts, wrapping it in, putting them under a tree, you're technically celebrating Christmas.

    If you have some other celebrations or gatherings on the same day, then yeah it's not Christmas

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    Ok. But in the context of what is being discussed is what you’re saying helpful or did you just want to show the class how smart you are?

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  • [+] 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Which other religions currently practice Christmas?

    Better yet which culture isn’t borrowing heavily from the ones who came before them?

    Which religions great flood was the real one, which version of saturnalia or Yule is the right one?

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    If the Abrahamic religions all come from the same source, which they do as far as my understanding goes; same dish, different recipes, then that would be Yahweh, a god of war and weather.

    In the oldest biblical texts, Yahweh possesses attributes that were typically ascribed to deities of weather and war, fructifying the Land of Israel and leading a heavenly army against the enemies of the Israelites.[13] Many scholars think that the Israelites probably engaged in polytheistic practices that were common across ancient Semitic religion,[14] because the Israelite religion was a derivative of the Canaanite religion and included a variety of deities from it, including El, Asherah, and Baal.[15] Yahweh likely became conflated with El in later centuries, taking his place as the head of the pantheon in the Israelite religion. El's consort Asherah became associated with Yahweh, and El-linked epithets, such as ʾĒl Šadday (אֵל שַׁדַּי), came to be applied to him alone.[16][17] Characteristics of other deities, such as Asherah and Baal, were also selectively absorbed in conceptions of Yahweh.[18][19][20]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Humanity is a failure. They see evil and think words will eliminate them.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago*

    I like how they posted a Surah that boils down to "stop building statues," followed by the most badass photo of a statue you can find.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago*

    Muslims, Christians, Jews, all believe in the same rotten core, and revel in the murder and torture of non-believers.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Official apostate for over a decade without regrets.

    💭 To consider antireligion, not atheism

    “The harm of religion is historically evident whereas the presence or absence of gods is not. Ultimately, the continued existence of religion is predicated on the indoctrination of children and suppression of rational thought. Therefore, I am against religion but not necessarily against the idea of gods. For all we know gods are computer scientists and we are in their video game.” ―https://www.arscyni.cc/file/antireligion.html

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (4 children)

    Islam 👏 Is 👏 Progressive 👏 Guys 👏

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    As progressive as all the other large organised religions, when averaged over time.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Islam 👏 Is 👏 A 👏 Christian 👏 Nationalist's 👏 Wet 👏 Dream 👏

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    Not relevant, but... Sure?

    Religious nationalists aren't generally playing with a full deck, but im not sure kink shaming is the play, you do you though.

    The emojis are compelling though, so perhaps relevance isn't required?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    It's absolutely relevant - because no one was trying to argue that Christianity is progressive. There is a concerted effort from terminally online folks trying to suggest that Islam is progressive.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    That's what they've been indoctrinated to believe, and most people never question this controlling system that demands low-level thinking, or any of the others. They just want to fit in and go with the flow, and thinking is too hard so they want catchphrases to obliviously go through life thinking they are the chosen ones, special, etc. It's the same difference between authoritarian politics and progressive. One demands obedience to supernatural or other unproven things and the other follows the evidence of what helps humanity, reduce suffering for the most in data backed ways. We update information as we discover new things.

    The truth will set us free, if enough would believe it. We're all waves of one ocean, made of stardust, the cosmos observing itself, DNA that survived all the extinction events to have this level of awareness and technology, but might cause its own extinction, or at least for billions of people born in the wrong places and w/o enough wealth. The controlling systems won't give up their wealth and power, they've had it since the first supernatural stories were used by them and they worked so well, still used today to control the masses.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    I would bet that verse is also probably taken out of context and doesn't actually mean what they are interpreting it to mean.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago*

    I bet you that your interpretation of the verse is even more off.

    Recall, every verse from the Bible or Koran is "out of context", as the context is the Bible or Koran.

    Every verse was "applied to just that person" and/or "only applied to that situation" and/or "only applied at that time". That's what makes them so very poisonous, as no verse applies to "now", and they are all applied to now.

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  • [+] -9 points 2 months ago (15 children)

    Upvoted because I liked the image, then switched to downvote when I saw your post title. Come on, man.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    Depends wether they meant “all gods” are the same or “all religious people are the same.

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  • [+] 8 points 2 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (12 children)

    clinically insane

    well, not clinically insane, because psychiatrists make an exception for religious people. Magical thinking is considered a hallmark of mental illness, unless it's part of established religious practice.

    "I've been praying for a new fridge, I'm sure Jesus/Allah/Ganesha will provide!" -> healthy, normal thought
    "I've been chanting to the spirit of Michael Faraday - who dwells in my basement - for a new fridge" -> crazy loon requiring immediate incarceration

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (11 children)

    I am sorry to say but either you don’t know what your talking about or you are referencing some really bad psychiatrist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_delusion

    I am not a doctor but i do have experience in this field.

    Humans being religious is considered normal. Just like having bias and lying to yourself and holding multiple opinions that are incompatible with eachother are all completely normal behaviours.

    Wether someone worships a known deity or a made up one or a celebrity does not actually matter in a clinical context.

    Believing that a devine being will grant you a fridge, is a red flag. Regardless of who that devine being is but its still not a big deal.

    The following up question is, which would be “and what will you do if a year from now you still don’t have a fridge?”

    If you answer that is evidence that you are punished and should have sacrificed your first born or flagging yourself -> incarcerated regardless of deity.

    If you say that the deity must have had more pressing matters, you don't expect your prayers to be priority but will continue to pray nonetheless… thats fine.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    The benign parts come along with other parts that do hurt people by not allowing their full humanity, and blame supernatural for real world problems that we can improve, but not if blamed on supernatural. Some say they are skeptics, but that's not true. Real skeptics are like Sagan and his kit to detect baloney. They are the opposite and really need the truth in his books. Once we know how to live better but some still subject innocent people to the unhealthy ways, it's inhumane. Half the population in some countries are still unable to ever self-actualize. Countless geniuses to help solve our problems, kept from their potential and freedom as all humans deserve.

    Climate refugee crisis requires mass cooperation, but as long as people are indoctrinated to dig in deeper to supernatural and other unfalsifiable trenches, tribalism, it won't happen in time, and the suffering will be worse than it could have been. Greedy company profits drives a lot of the issues and part of the high-control system problem, but lots of people can't wait for the end to their suffering, with a supernatural reward that doesn't exist. The systems were to benefit those with the wealth and power, in this one existence, the one chance to actually experience the cosmos as conscious stardust.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (9 children)

    I agree that many people are like this but i don’t think religion perse is the culpit.

    Lack of education and lack of individual freedom maybe.

    Plenty of religious people are involved in activism, science and improving society… But those are not the people to rub their religion in your face.

    The religious people i know in my social circle, do not visit a church, do not wear religious symbols, do not talk about their religion unless asked.. and are genuinely good, smart people open minded people that are fun to discuss philosophy with and are respectful of all others.

    Naturally my social cirlce is biased to be people i like, usually not jerks. But its clear to me that “religion” is not the source of evil.

    They simply have faith that something bigger then them has made them for a reason that they trust is good. It can’t be disproven so as a philosophy its as fair as anything else.

    I think religious doctrine is harmful though where people are told what to think, but thats still not “all the same”

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (8 children)

    “religion” is not the source of evil.

    Evil is a subjective concept that can't really be pinned down, but you don't have to look far to find recent cases of abhorrent behavior carried out in the name of religion. It shouldn't be to surprising when religious people believe that they are "god's favored people" and everyone else is going to end up in the fires of hell for eternity.

    not “all the same”

    It is a bit simplistic to say all religions are the same. I'm not sure what religion you're thinking of, but there are "peaceful ones" like Buddhism or Jainism. For whatever reason all the Jewish religions - Islam, Christianity and the OG Judaism itself - seem to bring out the worst in humanity. It's maybe not unreasonable to say all the Jewish religions are as bad as each other.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (5 children)

    Evil is definitely subjective.

    In this context i would describe it as highly asocial behaviour and hurting others.

    Most of my social circle is officially Christian, but at the mature level where god is an abstract force rather then a bearded dude in the sky.

    I would find it hard to distinguish them from other mature people of other religions. With a certain open mindned… all religions do actually become similar in that they discuss philosophy on similar matters, like morality, purpose, growth

    Something many people forget is that almost all religion contain a multitude of different, sometimes opposing ideologies build on a same source and share some practices.

    Even geological speaking. Christianity in the US knows many cultish forms that are unique to the US.

    Historically to be considered Christianity the only things that are really required

    • believe that death is not the end of life
    • believe in a singular highest being that is good in nature.
    • consider the mythological figure of Jesus to be an exemplary good rolemodel

    You can be a religious and oppose the church of your own religion…. Jesus did.. many very religious people where burned for being heretics by their own church simply because their actual faith was stronger then the mindcontrol of doctorine.

    There is also agnostic religious.. just like agnostics atheism which is where you accept that you cant know proof eitherway and have to made a personal choice. (Usually therefor not judging others for a different choice).

    But again agnostic religious people aren’t going to talk about their personal faith unless prompted.. and definitely not in public near zealots who can accuse them of heresy.

    I don’t know this. Lets say i am agnostic about this but i feel like your speaking from experiencing a very loud subgroup that does not represent the majority.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    You seem to think that there's a possibility that one of the Jewish religions is true. I don't think that at all. There is literally no way in my mind that any of them can be true. It's more likely that the moon is made of blue cheese than Jesus Christ really was speaking to god, or Mohammed really was speaking to a magical flying Jew. But if you call yourself a Christian, or a Muslim, you *have* to believe this. You are not a Christian or a Muslim if you don't think the voices they heard in their head were real and supernatural.

    There's no leeway on that. It's not enough to say, "Oh but Jesus was a really nice guy, and we should copy him". You *must* believe Jesus spoke to God and God genuinely told him that he was his son. Similar for Muslims - they *must* believe Mohammed spoke with a Jewish angel.

    If I find out someone I know actually believes such complete and utter nonsense, I simply cannot look at them the same again. In my mind, they must be either immensely stupid, or hugely vain.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

    You seem to think that there's a possibility that one of the Jewish religions is true.

    I have no idea how you got this but no I don’t believe any of the human made theories have a chance of coming even close to real truth. (Which I don’t know either, i stand firmly into the gnosis of agnosis.

    And no the things you mention are genuinely not required. I even know a religious teacher who teaches christianity in a religious school and even that one would dead seriously tell me that she does not think Jesus was ever more then a moral fiction and the bible was to be interpreted, not taken literal.

    Actually religious people do believe a higher power exists.. but everything else is optional and it would still count as religion.

    What your talking about is specifically “religious doctrine” which is common indeed (and bad) does not mean the act of religion itself bad.

    Doctorine is often religion. Religion is not always doctrine.

    Same like religion is human but not all humans religious.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    religious people do believe a higher power exists.. but everything else is optional

    well now we're going way off track and deep in to the territory of twisting and distorting the reality of religion into knots, and for what? These religions' texts are quite clear - you only get salvation if you partake in certain very specific rituals. Why do such people go to such lengths to keep a dead worldview alive? If they accept that the rituals and the bigotry of the religion are irrelevant superstition from a pre-scientific age, why are they insisting on looking for life in the religion's hollow carcass? Such people also seem stupid to me. They should just accept that the religion they grew up with is built on nothing, there's nothing of value in it, so they should drop it, and move on with their life, as just another unknowing human being who isn't special and doesn't have any great purpose.

    It's honestly fine to live like that and I don't know why you are trying to make excuses for such people. They are holding us back as a society.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I am sorry to say but you sketch a very narrow minded view of religion that covers only an Extremist part.

    You do not need to partake in ANY rituals. Rituals are doctrine.

    I am trying to defending people who i know exist who are doing actual good for society but happen to have some personal spiritual thing going on in their private lives.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    There is still room for "some personal spiritual thing" in our private lives.

    What there isn't room for is the idea that someone who hears voices in their head might really be talking to God, or an angel, or a space alien.

    There is no secret source of truth inside us. No voice of god telling us what to do or not to do. I meet far too many people who have this unfounded faith in some random idea that popped into their head. It is imperative for our species continued survival that such people learn how to think critically.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    but there are "peaceful ones" like Buddhism or Jainism.

    You could argue that there are some where historically the violence in less prominent, on a relative scale.

    But I'd be surprised if you had a single example of an organised religion with zero historical violence.

    Unless you want to "no true scotsman" through it.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    If you are Interested in learning more about this stuff I highly recommend “the gospel of Judas”

    Starts version starts with the figure of Jesus laughs at his followers for being stupid for worshipping god.

    There are again many interpretations of the original translation but at multiple times the message i got from it was “no one is dumber then someone who claim to know the truth.. especially people who worship some mythical figure.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (11 children)

    I actually think if you consider people irredeemable you're a piece of shit - but like them, you're redeemable.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    Impossible to say, since he's dead.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    Way to dance around the question, there, Baryshnikov.

    You’re asserting that everyone is redeemable. Do you think Hitler, had he not killed himself, was redeemable? Answer the damn question, coward.

    Further, and within your silly boundary of rules, is Netanyahu redeemable? Is Donald Trump redeemable? Is Putin redeemable? Is Ghislaine Maxwell redeemable? Is Sean Combs redeemable?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (7 children)

    Anyone alive has the potential to undergo a change of heart and become a good person. Even you.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

    So, you think we should give the benefit of the doubt that child rapists and murderers, if offered a chance, won’t rape and murder children?

    This also asserts that you feel those are forgivable acts. They’re not.

    Synderesis is what you’re copping to, it’s an artifact of abrahamic indoctrination, it’s also a very fucking naive thing to believe in.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    You seem to be bundling salvation, punishment, and forgiveness as one (which I think the other guy is trying to separate)

    If someone raped a child, he must be punished for it whether he had a change of heart or not. We should "forgive" them though in a sense of not hating them for it (even with every reason to) - which does not mean giving them a second chance around kids, or not punishing them, that privilege is lost. His "salvation" or whether he is redeemed is not determined by acts but his heart. It's possible to have a change of heart and become a good person regardless of acts done.

    So yeah, all the people you listed could in theory be redeemed. They most likely won't though.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (2 children)

    More bullshit synderesis, do yourself a favor and google what that means and the history of applying the concept.

    When someone tells you who they are, you should believe them, when someone repeatedly and actively shows you who they are and they continue being that person after every level of justice that the corrupt system is willing to apply and every action they commit to shows the exact same pattern of behavior, you are a fucking idiot for not believing them.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    When someone tells you who they are, you should believe them, when someone repeatedly and actively shows you who they are and they continue being that person after every level of justice that the corrupt system is willing to apply and every action they commit to shows the exact same pattern of behavior, you are a fucking idiot for not believing them.

    I agree. If people genuinely had a change of heart it will be shown by their actions.

    I can't seem to understand your position though. Do you believe people can't change at all? You reject synderesis so what is your view on this?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Some people, absolutely. Nothing is universal. Not everybody has a hidden node of empathy and understanding waiting to bloom inside of them. There are monsters in this world that wear human faces. Some people are beyond help, redemption, or reason. Pretending like literally everybody, no matter who they are nor what they’ve done, has some sort of care bear moment waiting to make their heart grow three sizes because they just needed that one special thing to realize the error of their ways is childish storytelling naïveté and something people tell themselves to try to not hate their abusive parents or partners.

    When someone does something it lets you know, 100%, point blank, there is no doubt, they are capable and willing to do that. To believe otherwise is delusional.

    You know how there are those people that believe they can communicate with bears and wolves so strongly that they try to live amongst them? People do it kind of a lot. There is only one way any of those stories has ever ended. If you’re dumb enough expect a bear or a wolf to not act like a bear or a wolf then you’re going to get eaten by a bear or a wolf. Humans are animals, not divine creations with greater instilled concepts magically encoded into us, don’t expect a predator to not be a predator just because you aren’t one.

    Absolution is a stupid, childish, and religious concept.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Dude, you obviously have no comprehension of what I'm saying. My final advice is that there are many decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago*

    No, no, I fully understand what you’re saying, you don’t seem to understand what you’re saying and advocating for and your childish tantrum of a response is proof of that.

    You’ve been ideologically indoctrinated, maybe put some thought into that, as well as your insults, because that was some weak shit.

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